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post #991 of 4136 Old 10-17-2013, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

OK. Good rebuttal except for the bit about the electrical engineer correlating an unknown amp and speaker for a 1db increase per one number increase read out on the preamp.

The amp and speaker would only matter if they don't respond essentially linearly to power over a 1 dB range.

Which is to say they don't matter.

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post #992 of 4136 Old 10-17-2013, 07:19 PM
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But the speaker would surely matter but perhaps not at lower volume levels.

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post #993 of 4136 Old 10-17-2013, 07:49 PM
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No.

Again, dB is a ratio.

It doesn't matter what the initial level is, if you increase the input by 43%, the output increases by 43%.

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post #994 of 4136 Old 10-17-2013, 08:03 PM
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Discover does this now, too. Plus they are currently doing 5% cashback on online orders although I think there is a cap.

Most of the newer credit cards extend warranties 1 year, including any Visa card that is classified as a "signature Visa". The Discover 5% MAX cash back is up to $75 back on $1500 in online purchases, after that point you only get 1%. The best deal is the United Airlines Club cards (if you fly), some which give up to 40,000+ miles free just for signing up in person (not online). You can actually get 85,000 miles in the first year if you do it right. That is approximately 3 FREE round trip airfare tickets (worth $1,200+).



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post #995 of 4136 Old 10-17-2013, 09:28 PM
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Hey. Welcome back. A post even I can't quarrel with.

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post #996 of 4136 Old 10-17-2013, 09:56 PM
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Kevin. Another thriller, 4 to 3 Red Sox. The Red Sox closer for the Championship MVP. Going to be one or two great games over the weekend. hopefully, only needing one with the sox winning close out game six.

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post #997 of 4136 Old 10-17-2013, 11:10 PM
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fan noise is one thing, but besides the louder fan noise especially in high lamp, to me the most annoying thing in the rs48 I tested (compared to my rs45) and one of the reasons why I sent it back was the high pitched whine when e-shift was on. Very annoying because it meant I couldn't use eshift. It's the first thing my wife mentioned when she heard the new model. So besides the fan noise level, the frequency of the noise is also important. I sure hope they got rid of the small fan which was activated when e-shift was enabled.
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post #998 of 4136 Old 10-18-2013, 03:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post

fan noise is one thing, but besides the louder fan noise especially in high lamp, to me the most annoying thing in the rs48 I tested (compared to my rs45) and one of the reasons why I sent it back was the high pitched whine when e-shift was on. Very annoying because it meant I couldn't use eshift. It's the first thing my wife mentioned when she heard the new model. So besides the fan noise level, the frequency of the noise is also important. I sure hope they got rid of the small fan which was activated when e-shift was enabled.

I don't believe its a fan. It's like a servo noise and its the e-shift device itself making that noise. I can certainly hear it on my X75 and I am EXTREMELY sensitive to high pitched noises. But fortunately the pitch on my unit is not so high and while I can hear it, my brain seems to tune it out very quickly. I think this is something that varied a bit from unit to unit. But it's a good point...hopefully they have improved this.
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post #999 of 4136 Old 10-18-2013, 05:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post

fan noise is one thing, but besides the louder fan noise especially in high lamp, to me the most annoying thing in the rs48 I tested (compared to my rs45) and one of the reasons why I sent it back was the high pitched whine when e-shift was on. Very annoying because it meant I couldn't use eshift. It's the first thing my wife mentioned when she heard the new model. So besides the fan noise level, the frequency of the noise is also important. I sure hope they got rid of the small fan which was activated when e-shift was enabled.

I had no idea about that. I have no such issues with my RS55. I'm very sensitive to those types of sounds.

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post #1000 of 4136 Old 10-18-2013, 06:47 AM
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The conflicting info on the DI implementation has been sorted out. As Mike G. stated, one can set max brightness and still use the DI....
Quote:
From GaryB
I've had clarification from Japan on the DI implementation and it's good news.

When you set a maximum aperture level in manual mode and then change to DI, the previously set level will still be visible in the menu but greyed out. It will however be maintained as the maximum brightness level.

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post #1001 of 4136 Old 10-18-2013, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

The conflicting info on the DI implementation has been sorted out. As Mike G. stated, one can set max brightness and still use the DI....

Thanks Geof. So in that case we can assume someone like me who uses a -15 manual aperture setting that the ILA would do literally nothing? The way Mike explained it, the ILA will simply go from whatever your manual setting is to -15, so if you are already at -15 it would seem that the ILA would be useless.

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post #1002 of 4136 Old 10-18-2013, 08:24 AM
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No. I may be useless but the II at the low end closes the iris down more than -15, in your case -15 would be your maximum blazing whites setting while you blacks would be blacker. So there you go, call Mike and pre order. You aren't going to use that lame reason that you are already at -15 to wiggel out of upgrading this year.

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post #1003 of 4136 Old 10-18-2013, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Thanks Geof. So in that case we can assume someone like me who uses a -15 manual aperture setting that the ILA would do literally nothing? The way Mike explained it, the ILA will simply go from whatever your manual setting is to -15, so if you are already at -15 it would seem that the ILA would be useless.
I pretty much agree with Mark.....the dynamic iris has to close more than -15 or else there would be no dynamic improvement over the native CR obtained with the iris set at -15.

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post #1004 of 4136 Old 10-18-2013, 08:35 AM
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And JVC at the show reportedly said the II did close more than the manual minimum closure of -15. I am scared to call it the maximum closure to avoid confusion. But in reality the manual maximum closure is -15 and the minimum closure or maximum opening is +15.

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post #1005 of 4136 Old 10-18-2013, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

No. I may be useless but the II at the low end closes the iris down more than -15, in your case -15 would be your maximum blazing whites setting while you blacks would be blacker. So there you go, call Mike and pre order. You aren't going to use that lame reason that you are already at -15 to wiggel out of upgrading this year.


So we can assume the latest info Mike was given about this in particular was wrong? Here is that post again for reference........
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

People keep asking about the dynamic iris. Here is what I have found out. For all new JVC models, you can use Intelligent Lens Aperture and Manual Aperture at the same time. For example, if you set the aperture manually to -6 position, the Intelligent Lens Aperture moves from -15 to -6 position. This way, you can keep maximum brightness at the -6 level.

Not trying to beat this into the ground fellas, just want to know one way or the other for sure. smile.gif Mike's post above strongly suggests the ILA has a maximum range of the -15 MLA setting combined with whatever you have your MLA set to on the bright end.

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post #1006 of 4136 Old 10-18-2013, 08:59 AM
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And to answer you, the manual setting becomes the maximum size the iris will open. The II when engaged closes the iris down beyond the smallest you can set the maximum to of -15. It gets confusing, but the II closes the iris down for black frames etc more than you can set it to manually (-15) and yet will maintain what you set it too as the maximum it will open. Of course, we will have to await production samples to be sure of anything but I am sure an answer will be known before your late place in line would be reached for preorder and you would have to pony up a cc number. BTW. Your dealer friend probably can't match AVS preorder pricing because unlike past years AVAD had no preorder pricing deal this year.

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post #1007 of 4136 Old 10-18-2013, 09:02 AM
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JVC specs the RS57 (for example) at 1.2million:1 dynamic Contrast and the native contrast is spec'd at 120,000:1. If the DI did not close more than -15 then how are they arriving at a dynamic CR os 1,200,000:1? IOW, it has to close more than -15 to achieve the specified dynamic CR.

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post #1008 of 4136 Old 10-18-2013, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

And to answer you, the manual setting becomes the maximum size the iris will open. The II when engaged closes the iris down beyond the smallest you can set the maximum to of -15. It gets confusing, but the II closes the iris down for black frames etc more than you can set it to manually (-15) and yet will maintain what you set it too as the maximum it will open. Of course, we will have to await production samples to be sure of anything but I am sure an answer will be known before your late place in line would be reached for preorder and you would have to pony up a cc number. BTW. Your dealer friend probably can't match AVS preorder pricing because unlike past years AVAD had no preorder pricing deal this year.


I am done with that dealer anyway Mark. Let's just say the after sale support sucked to be blunt. rolleyes.gif I am still leaning toward skipping this year anyway TBH since funds are a bit tight, but I have not fully committed to that route as evidenced by the fact I am still in here asking questions! tongue.gif Who knows, I could still get a wild hair and grab one. Looks like a used RS45 is only going for around $1600 or so on videogon which kind of blows.....Not to mention all it takes is throwing on a truly excellent transfer on my mini calibrated RS45 like I did with Triangle last night (insane LFE/audio track by the way for those who have not seen this!) and the upgrade bug gets squashed.......but here I am again this morning thinking about it!


What you and Geof are saying about the dynamic CR certainly makes sense. Getting conflicting info like what Mike reported does not give one total confidence though!

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post #1009 of 4136 Old 10-18-2013, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

So we can assume the latest info Mike was given about this in particular was wrong? Here is that post again for reference........
Not trying to beat this into the ground fellas, just want to know one way or the other for sure. smile.gif Mike's post above strongly suggests the ILA has a maximum range of the -15 MLA setting combined with whatever you have your MLA set to on the bright end.

You are looking at it backwards. The dynamic iris adjust so that the max opening is -6 in the example above. Not max closing of -15.

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post #1010 of 4136 Old 10-18-2013, 09:24 AM
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There is only one minor discrepancy in Mike's quote. The focus of that discussion was being able to set the iris when it is operating intelligently (yuk, yuk) to a maximum opening size. Anywhere from -15 to +15. Mike gave a bad example saying the operating intelligently (yuk yuk) the iris would go from a minimum of -15 to the max opening one set, in his example, -6. The -15 was wrong. When operating in intelligent (yuk yuk) mode the iris actually closes down smaller than -15 and a JVC engineer reportedly verified that at the show after coming back from washing his mouth out with soap after uttering the word dynamic and a JVC marketing guy screamed at him saying I thought you were more intelligent than that.

It might have been Darin that received that info. Mike and Craig were off trying to find a stethoscope and a sound meter so they could measure fan noise that they couldn't otherwise hear.

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post #1011 of 4136 Old 10-18-2013, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

JVC specs the RS57 (for example) at 1.2million:1 dynamic Contrast and the native contrast is spec'd at 120,000:1. If the DI did not close more than -15 then how are they arriving at a dynamic CR os 1,200,000:1? IOW, it has to close more than -15 to achieve the specified dynamic CR.

It does. In my example, the -6 is the max opening of the dynamic iris, not the max closing.

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post #1012 of 4136 Old 10-18-2013, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

There is only one minor discrepancy in Mike's quote. The focus of that discussion was being able to set the iris when it is operating intelligently (yuk, yuk) to a maximum opening size. Anywhere from -15 to +15. Mike gave a bad example saying the operating intelligently (yuk yuk) the iris would go from a minimum of -15 to the max opening one set, in his example, -6. The -15 was wrong. When operating in intelligent (yuk yuk) mode the iris actually closes down smaller than -15 and a JVC engineer reportedly verified that at the show after coming back from washing his mouth out with soap after uttering the word dynamic and a JVC marketing guy screamed at him saying I thought you were more intelligent than that.

Not exactly bad. The max opening size of the dynamic iris moves from -15 to -6. I did not say anything about a range or closing down to -15. I held off posting anymore on this, until someone else came back to confirm. Figured given a little bit of time and it would be resolved. More posting before confirmation would have just left more unanswered questions. smile.gif

Toe, in your example of running the fixed iris at -15, then the dynamic iris will not add anything for your setup. Once the lamp wears down and you move off of -15, then the dynamic iris would be of some use.

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post #1013 of 4136 Old 10-18-2013, 09:33 AM
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If the iris in II mode didn't close smaller than -15, it would be ridiculous setting the max opening to -15 and running the II mode. Suppose you set the max to -14. What then? It would run opening and closing scene dependent one stop whatever one stop or click is. Set it at minus 13, now you get two stops. Allowing one to set a low max opening for II mode only makes sense if the maximum closure (minimum opening) is way smaller than -15 in II mode.

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post #1014 of 4136 Old 10-18-2013, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

You are looking at it backwards. The dynamic iris adjust so that the max opening is -6 in the example above. Not max closing of -15.


Your original quote is confusing me then. Here is what you said......

For example, if you set the aperture manually to -6 position, the Intelligent Lens Aperture moves from -15 to -6 position

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post #1015 of 4136 Old 10-18-2013, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post



Toe, in your example of running the fixed iris at -15, then the dynamic iris will not add anything for your setup. Once the lamp wears down and you move off of -15, then the dynamic iris would be of some use.


Thanks and this is what I was thinking all along. At my -15 setting, the ILA is useless.

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post #1016 of 4136 Old 10-18-2013, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Thanks and this is what I was thinking all along. At my -15 setting, the ILA is useless.

This just isn't making sense. The II has to close down more than -15 and hence still be useful even if you set your iris at -15. If it's not able to lower the black floor of the projector beyond it's native level, what's the point of the II?

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post #1017 of 4136 Old 10-18-2013, 10:12 AM
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To clarify one thing (+15 has been mentioned).....the range of Iris settings in JVC's is 0 to -15 - 0 is wide open, -15 is fully closed.

I guess I'm confused again. To my way of thinking the Dynamic Iris has to go further closed than -15. The max native contrast occurs with an iris setting -15 (along with max throw, etc). But these projectors have a dynamic spec that is 10 times betetr than native. If the iris only closes to -15 how are they improving CR from 120,000:1 to 1,200,000:1??
The dynamic iris has to be closing beyond -15 even though one cannot manually set it below -15.

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post #1018 of 4136 Old 10-18-2013, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

This just isn't making sense. The II has to close down more than -15 and hence still be useful even if you set your iris at -15. If it's not able to lower the black floor of the projector beyond it's native level, what's the point of the II?
Exactly what I argued...albeit a tad too late.....

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post #1019 of 4136 Old 10-18-2013, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

This just isn't making sense. The II has to close down more than -15 and hence still be useful even if you set your iris at -15. If it's not able to lower the black floor of the projector beyond it's native level, what's the point of the II?



I am just going on what Mike is reporting and I agree that assuming this holds true in the production models, the ILA just got much less interesting for me obviously, lol. Of course it would still be useful for my 2.35 since I start with a -10 iris setting, but if it holds true that it does not go lower than the -15 setting, all I am left with in the 49 for 1.78 would be a 10k native increase which is great, but how much real world difference would this be going from a native spec of 50,000:1 vs 60,000:1?

As far as the 6k, 1.2mil and 1.5 mil spec, who knows exactly how JVC came up with that. It would be great to get everyone on the same page with this though so we know exactly what we are getting for those who preorder.

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post #1020 of 4136 Old 10-18-2013, 10:34 AM
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Well if you measure maximum contrast wouldnt you get the max contrast at a setting where your maximum brightness occurs with your maximum (darkest) black level. So now that they have a dynamic iris perhaps they have quasi fudged the numbers by essentially opening the manual iris to some level higher (more open) than the darkest - 15 setting thereby increasing the brightness. Now the dynamic iris can come in and drop their black level below what they would get normally at the brighter setting thereby increasing the disparity between brightest white and darkest black and achieving their new maximum dynamic contrast.

So adding the DI has allowed Jvc to obtain a larger disparity between brightest white and darkest black by allowing them to get darker blacks at a higher allowable brightness.
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