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post #1441 of 4136 Old 11-01-2013, 08:03 PM
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Yes I'm very intrigued by the clear black processing. Of course it could be a "yuck" marketing gimmick to try once and turn off forever. On the other hand, I'm not alone in being mightily impressed by JVC's MPC processing and it's almost a necessity to have it for me. If they've done some similar nice work with this new clear black process it would be a nice bonus.

As to the statements in that mini review from the JVC rep, as much as I love what JVC has done with their projectors, it's a bit rich to hear the JVC E-shift method "is not a stop gap" toward real 4K displays. This is all you really need to be set for 4K folks! Obviously he has to repeat a party line on 4K for now, and certainly they don't want to admit they've got a real native 4K projector coming lest that be the sign for people to hold off buying these E-shift versions.

But, still, it must have been hard to deliver that line with a straight face.

That's hilarious as I was left with the same thought when he seemingly used his words very carefully touting "having a product that is compliant with a 4K source" (a.k.a. - red ray source… that is a 4K source yes??), but as Manni & Jon pointed out, not the proposed UHD upcoming consumer standard (albeit I realize still all up in the air at this point).

However I was most interested in his comment about being ready for Satellite but that if Sky opts to broadcast at 10bit 4:4:4 the projectors would need a firmware update. That sounds promising as I assumed something like that would require a new chip. Maybe they'll have more flexibility than we're going them credit for in possibly being able to support more UHD output formats?? confused.gif

I also agree with yours and Jason's observation about Oblivion & even Pacific Rim to a certain extent (which BTW I thought looked excellent in 3D… one of the best to date in terms of minimal ghosting!). I actually watched Oblivion again a couple days later because I couldn't believe how excellent it looked with MPC ver1 plus the Darbee on 30%… phenomenal! biggrin.gif

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post #1442 of 4136 Old 11-01-2013, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post

I actually watched Oblivion again a couple days later because I couldn't believe how excellent it looked with MPC ver1 plus the Darbee on 30%… phenomenal! biggrin.gif

Indeed it does. I've watched several scenes on Oblivion many, many times to check various settings on my projector. Often thinking with the MPC and Darbee combination thinking "how could anything actually look sharper or more detailed?"

But then, I viewed it on the Sony VW1000 4K, and then went home and watched Oblivion on my JVC again. Yes, there is another level. smile.gif

Still, I can't wait to see what the new JVC's bring to the table for now.
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post #1443 of 4136 Old 11-02-2013, 02:55 AM
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Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post

However I was most interested in his comment about being ready for Satellite but that if Sky opts to broadcast at 10bit 4:4:4 the projectors would need a firmware update. That sounds promising as I assumed something like that would require a new chip. Maybe they'll have more flexibility than we're going them credit for in possibly being able to support more UHD output formats?? confused.gif

You're right Kevin. If Sky opts for 10bits at 444 (although it would probably be 422 10 bits or 444 8 bits as I believe 444 is only supported at 8 bits or 16 bits), that will be 50p (as we're in Europe). Even if it was limited to 422 10 bits or 444 8 bits, it would still require HDMI 2.0 full speed (even the Sony 500/600ES or 1x00ES will not be able to handle this as they are limited to the HDMI 1.4 speed of 10.2Gbits/s). Have a look at Ron Jones' excellent post here to see what current limited HDMI 2.0 implementations can support. It would have to be 420 8bits in rec 709 for the JVC to stand a chance to support a UHDTV source at 50 or 60p.

So if JVC can turn an HDMI 1.4 machine limited to 10.2Gbits/s into a full speed HDMI 2.0 machine at 18Gbits/s with a firmware update, they are true wizards smile.gif .

This is also assuming that Sky will not follow BT.2020 recommendations for UHDTV first level (4K), which requires at the moment rec2020 at 10 or 12 bits, (which no consumer display, including the new Sony models, can support). No firmware update will grant a wider native gamut to the JVCs (or the SONYs). The BT.2020 recommendations might be revised or made more flexible to accommodate more displays, but that hasn't happened yet as far as I know.

This is even before HDCP is taken into account, as it is likely that content owners (ie studios) will want 4K movies broadcasted in 4K to have better content protection, hence a 4K topbox will likely require HDCP 2.2, which the JVCs do not (and will not) support, as it's been recently confirmed.

I've made an excel spreadsheet for myself that shows that the JVCs are unlikely to support ANY future source of 4K commercial content given their limitations (no rec2020, no HDMI 2.0, no HDCP 2.2). The SONYs fare a bit better thanks to their 4K server in the U.S. and their possible compatibility with Bluray 4K as they support HDCP 2.2, but they don't stand a better chance of supporting UHDVT unless the BT.2020 recommendations are revised or Sony offers another hardware upgrade when full speed HDMI chipsets become available.

This doesn't mean the 2014 is not a very exciting range (I'm buying an X500/rs49 myself to upgrade my rs45 and I'm very excited about the improvements I'm expecting to enjoy over the next couple of years), just that they have about zero future proofing with 4K commercial content. Buy them for upscaling 1080p, or if you have unprotected 4K content (like from a gopro Hero 3 or a Red camera), but don't buy them under any illusion that they are future-proof for commercial 4K content. Which honestly isn't a big deal unless you're planning to keep your projector for more than 1-2 years, as it's going to take a while (at least a year) before standards are defined and actual content is broadcast/delivered.
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post #1444 of 4136 Old 11-02-2013, 05:18 AM
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Not to go off topic here but I need some help. This will be my first projector period and I am looking at the RS4910 or the RS57. I know the RS57 has almost double contrast ratio but part from that I would be interested to know what other features does it have (that the RS4910 does not). Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!
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post #1445 of 4136 Old 11-02-2013, 06:28 AM
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Of course you could just go to the JVC Pro home page and look under products at HT projectors and get all you information including specs for the two models that way. Or you could ask somebody here to do it for you. Better yet as soon as one of the AV Science sales guys wakes up they could post the info and send you a PM. smile.gif

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post #1446 of 4136 Old 11-02-2013, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by jollyguy23 View Post

Not to go off topic here but I need some help. This will be my first projector period and I am looking at the RS4910 or the RS57. I know the RS57 has almost double contrast ratio but part from that I would be interested to know what other features does it have (that the RS4910 does not). Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!

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post #1447 of 4136 Old 11-02-2013, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post

You're right Kevin. If Sky opts for 10bits at 444 (although it would probably be 422 10 bits or 444 8 bits as I believe 444 is only supported at 8 bits or 16 bits), that will be 50p (as we're in Europe). Even if it was limited to 422 10 bits or 444 8 bits, it would still require HDMI 2.0 full speed (even the Sony 500/600ES or 1x00ES will not be able to handle this as they are limited to the HDMI 1.4 speed of 10.2Gbits/s). Have a look at Ron Jones' excellent post here to see what current limited HDMI 2.0 implementations can support. It would have to be 420 8bits in rec 709 for the JVC to stand a chance to support a UHDTV source at 50 or 60p.

So if JVC can turn an HDMI 1.4 machine limited to 10.2Gbits/s into a full speed HDMI 2.0 machine at 18Gbits/s with a firmware update, they are true wizards smile.gif .

This is also assuming that Sky will not follow BT.2020 recommendations for UHDTV first level (4K), which requires at the moment rec2020 at 10 or 12 bits, (which no consumer display, including the new Sony models, can support). No firmware update will grant a wider native gamut to the JVCs (or the SONYs). The BT.2020 recommendations might be revised or made more flexible to accommodate more displays, but that hasn't happened yet as far as I know.

This is even before HDCP is taken into account, as it is likely that content owners (ie studios) will want 4K movies broadcasted in 4K to have better content protection, hence a 4K topbox will likely require HDCP 2.2, which the JVCs do not (and will not) support, as it's been recently confirmed.

I've made an excel spreadsheet for myself that shows that the JVCs are unlikely to support ANY future source of 4K commercial content given their limitations (no rec2020, no HDMI 2.0, no HDCP 2.2). The SONYs fare a bit better thanks to their 4K server in the U.S. and their possible compatibility with Bluray 4K as they support HDCP 2.2, but they don't stand a better chance of supporting UHDVT unless the BT.2020 recommendations are revised or Sony offers another hardware upgrade when full speed HDMI chipsets become available.

This doesn't mean the 2014 is not a very exciting range (I'm buying an X500/rs49 myself to upgrade my rs45 and I'm very excited about the improvements I'm expecting to enjoy over the next couple of years), just that they have about zero future proofing with 4K commercial content. Buy them for upscaling 1080p, or if you have unprotected 4K content (like from a gopro Hero 3 or a Red camera), but don't buy them under any illusion that they are future-proof for commercial 4K content. Which honestly isn't a big deal unless you're planning to keep your projector for more than 1-2 years, as it's going to take a while (at least a year) before standards are defined and actual content is broadcast/delivered.


Excellent summary Manni and I figured it was too much of a pipe dream to think they'd be able future support true UHD incoming formats with just a firmware update (even if they could history tells us they wouldn't… have they ever really except for the ceiling mount issues we had on the original RS50's?… no). Thanks for that excellent post by Ron as well… very well written! smile.gif

I just don't understand why they couldn't have upgraded a few chips on the board to support HDMI 2.0 even if UHD final spec is not yet complete (or is there just more to it internally I'm not understanding??). It would at the very least as Ron stated below, put the PJ in a position to potentially support some commercial content…

Even those early HDMI 2.0 implementations that are constrained to a 10.2 Gbps bandwidth may be able to fully support the 4K UHD video formats used by the first generation of UHD video sources. However, with a 4K UHD version of Blu-ray Disc potentially coming to market as early as late 2014, it is possible that a more complete HDMI 2.0 implementation will be required to support the most capable 4K UHD video formats allowed by this next generation Blu-ray system. Even so, such displays equipped with early HDMI 2.0 implementations should still be compatible with the future, more capable, 4K UHD video sources due to the method HDMI uses to negotiate to find a format that can be supported by both devices. In this case the 4K UHD source should be able to provide the best 4K UHD format that can be supported by the connected UHD display device.

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post #1448 of 4136 Old 11-02-2013, 11:15 AM
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I was just curious in case you know, as I skipped last years AVS offering on the RS56/X75, did JVC do away with the three Xenon lamp color modes which engaged those color filters into the throw (you know that alarming "CLICK" that made you feel the PJ just broke! biggrin.gif)? I don't use them very much at all but they were kinda cool when I was watching Sci-Fi or old movies to give it that old movie house look. Thx!

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post #1449 of 4136 Old 11-02-2013, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post

I just don't understand why they couldn't have upgraded a few chips on the board to support HDMI 2.0 even if UHD final spec is not yet complete (or is there just more to it internally I'm not understanding??). It would at the very least as Ron stated below, put the PJ in a position to potentially support some commercial content…

I don't understand either why they haven't done what Sony has, and used HDMI 1.4 hardware to implement a limited set of HDMI 2.0 features as well as HDCP 2.2, to be able to claim HDMI 2.0 compliance. It's even weirder as from a bandwidth point of view, they have the same limitations (rec 709 8 bits 420 at 50/60p). Maybe Sony got cleverer, or maybe JVC is trying to meet a lower price point with their entry-level model and they as they are more or less the same internally (bar the dual iris and the adobe RGB filter on the higher models) that would have pushed the rs49/4910 at a higher price point?
The JVC sure would have a much better value and a longer shelf life if they had implement HDMI 2.0 (even with a limited bandwidth) and HDCP 2.2 this time around, like Sony did.

Maybe they have the hardware in place, and maybe this is what Steve Carter is implying, in which case a firmware update could allow them to support both a limited feature set of HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2. But if this is the case, they are mad not to communicate on that and push this item to the top of their developers to do list, as this limitation is likely to cost them quite a few sales.
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post #1450 of 4136 Old 11-02-2013, 02:37 PM
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Something that should have occurred to me earlier: Given that JVC has significantly reduced the pixel grid size this year, that could make the whole "E-shift" thing kind of moot for some people, in that I'd bet pixel visibility
has been reduced for it's normal 1080p mode. The benefit of E-shift I think is in the additional detail/contrast MPC processing that becomes accessible once the picture is E-shifted. But aside from that, in terms of image smoothness, maybe the new pixel grid would go far enough for most people toward making pixel grid invisible. (I think I remember when I tried switching E-shift on and of on my RS55 that with E-shift off the image was just a touch sharper, but with E-shift on the image looked a bit more solid, and then I made up the sharpness, surpassing the non-Eshift image in detail, using the MPC processing).
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post #1451 of 4136 Old 11-02-2013, 03:32 PM
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Hi. Rich. Now that you no longer have to internally and externally debate what to get based on 2 machines you have not seen, now you have to internally and externally debate how to run one machine you haven't seen. If there were instant gratification and you could just run down to Best Buy and pick up your JVC, we would have little to discuss while the clock ticks down to the delivery date and set up, and all for a machine you will be selling next year. smile.gif

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post #1452 of 4136 Old 11-02-2013, 03:45 PM
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LOL. Home Theater, at least as practiced by many of us here, sure ain't the instant gratification business.

Though my pal seems to have mastered HT in that regard. He just keeps low standards, can make snap decisions, has an unerring sense for buying older but good performance tech, and getting bargain basement pricing.
So once he decides he wants something, he's got it cheap, up and running almost instantly, with no regrets and only satisfaction. I'll never forgive him: when I told him I was going to create a home theater in my house he said "Oh, that sounds great. What's that all about?" And within two weeks he had a brand new screen and projector, with surround sound watching movies on a big screen. Whereas I was looking at another 2 years of torment to get mine done. He'd always say as I grumbled about the next disaster in my home theater build "It's ok, you can come over to my place and watch movies." yeah. That helped.
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post #1453 of 4136 Old 11-02-2013, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

LOL. Home Theater, at least as practiced by many of us here, sure ain't the instant gratification business.

Though my pal seems to have mastered HT in that regard. He just keeps low standards, can make snap decisions, has an unerring sense for buying older but good performance tech, and getting bargain basement pricing.
So once he decides he wants something, he's got it cheap, up and running almost instantly, with no regrets and only satisfaction. I'll never forgive him: when I told him I was going to create a home theater in my house he said "Oh, that sounds great. What's that all about?" And within two weeks he had a brand new screen and projector, with surround sound watching movies on a big screen. Whereas I was looking at another 2 years of torment to get mine done. He'd always say as I grumbled about the next disaster in my home theater build "It's ok, you can come over to my place and watch movies." yeah. That helped.

Great story! Good laugh! biggrin.gif
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post #1454 of 4136 Old 11-02-2013, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post

I don't understand either why they haven't done what Sony has, and used HDMI 1.4 hardware to implement a limited set of HDMI 2.0 features as well as HDCP 2.2, to be able to claim HDMI 2.0 compliance. It's even weirder as from a bandwidth point of view, they have the same limitations (rec 709 8 bits 420 at 50/60p). Maybe Sony got cleverer, or maybe JVC is trying to meet a lower price point with their entry-level model and they as they are more or less the same internally (bar the dual iris and the adobe RGB filter on the higher models) that would have pushed the rs49/4910 at a higher price point?
The JVC sure would have a much better value and a longer shelf life if they had implement HDMI 2.0 (even with a limited bandwidth) and HDCP 2.2 this time around, like Sony did.

Maybe they have the hardware in place, and maybe this is what Steve Carter is implying, in which case a firmware update could allow them to support both a limited feature set of HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2. But if this is the case, they are mad not to communicate on that and push this item to the top of their developers to do list, as this limitation is likely to cost them quite a few sales.

I was specifically told by a JVC rep at CEDIA that the HDCP version could not be upgraded via firmware as it is implemented in hardware. I suspect Sony has developed their own HDMI 2.0-lite (i.e., with limited bandwidth but with HDCP 2.2) chip while JVC probably had to rely on an 3rd party vendor for their upgraded HDMI chip.

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post #1455 of 4136 Old 11-02-2013, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post

I was just curious in case you know, as I skipped last years AVS offering on the RS56/X75, did JVC do away with the three Xenon lamp color modes which engaged those color filters into the throw (you know that alarming "CLICK" that made you feel the PJ just broke! biggrin.gif)? I don't use them very much at all but they were kinda cool when I was watching Sci-Fi or old movies to give it that old movie house look. Thx!

I think it is still there because it mentions adobe RGB and they needed the filter for that too. I was wondering how x.v.color worked because that is mentioned only on the higher two models implying the filter being used. But I thought the RS49 also had this but it's not on the JVC links.
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post #1456 of 4136 Old 11-02-2013, 10:04 PM
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I think it is still there because it mentions adobe RGB and they needed the filter for that too. I was wondering how x.v.color worked because that is mentioned only on the higher two models implying the filter being used. But I thought the RS49 also had this but it's not on the JVC links.

I asked gary and he confirmed all three models are x.v.color compatible. There is a slide somewhere confirming this. However only the two higher models are adobe RGB compatible and have the filter. It was also the reason i asked, but I think the reason why the rs49/x500 also support x.v.color is because with x.c.color, if a native gamut cannot display an extended colour, it is simply clipped, so while it can be compatible with almost any display, you still only get as much extension to rec709 as your native gamut allows. It's great for compatibility (you calibrate to rec709, and the display displays as much of the extended gamut as it can), but it's not as good as having a fixed wider gamut like DCI or rec2020 to which you can calibrate to which guarantees you are getting the whole extended colour goodness. However, this is why I think we will be ending with x.v.color for bluray 4K, otherwise there will be ony one consumer display compatible if they go for DCI (the vw1x00) and none if they go for rec2020.

Edit: this is the slide I was thinking about which confirms x.v.color for all three models:


And here's the one showing the extended gamuts supported per model:
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post #1457 of 4136 Old 11-02-2013, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post

I was specifically told by a JVC rep at CEDIA that the HDCP version could not be upgraded via firmware as it is implemented in hardware. I suspect Sony has developed their own HDMI 2.0-lite (i.e., with limited bandwidth but with HDCP 2.2) chip while JVC probably had to rely on an 3rd party vendor for their upgraded HDMI chip.

Thanks for the confirmation Ron, this is also what I thought (that HDCP 2.2 needed new hardware), so what I meant was that they might have put such hardware in but had not been able to develop the firmware to support it yet (which was a slight possibility, despite the fact it's been denied many times by JVC now). There is a slide somewhere where they divide the 4K signal compatibility in the market in three levels, and they put their range and the Sony vw500es at the same level (B). I assume it is re bandwidth only and it ignores content protection, but even if they went for a third party solution, why would you source even a low speed hdmi 2.0 chipset which doesn't support hdcp 2.2? It's not as if that requirement was not to be expected. I guess I was just trying to find a reason why Steve Carter could have said something so implausible. Do you have any idea why he could have said that the current range could support a 10 bits 444 signal with a firmware upgrade otherwise (I mean, apart from incompetence, as I'm sure he was not being disingenuous)?

I guess the only other possibility (I'm being really nice with him) is that he meant Sky would broadcast 4K in 25p (as we're in Europe) at rec709 (so clearly not respecting current bt.2020), which means users would have too chose between better resolution with 4K or better motion with 1080p/i, as UHDTV doesn't support interlaced refresh modes (but supports 25p and 30p). This also means that the Sky topbox would not use HDCP 2.2 which I would find very unlikely. What's your opinion?

By the way. I wanted to ask you, is the absence of a 25p mode in your blog post (you only mention 24p and 30p below 60p) because you are writing for a U.S. Centric audience, or is 25p absent from the UHDTV modes supported by HDMI 2.0? I'm almost sure the new JVC range supports at least one UHD mode at 25p, although I would need to check this.

EDIT: this is the table I was looking for, as you can see 4K@25p (and 50p@420/8bits) is supported by the JVCs:

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post #1458 of 4136 Old 11-03-2013, 01:02 AM
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Originally Posted by podresideok View Post

i agree with you,HDMI 1.4 can't accept 2160p60 and these new projectors are still HDMI 1.4. thank you
pNEg

They can accept 2160p60, only at rec709 420 8bits which doesn't comply with UHDTV as defined by BT.2020 or with what Steve Carter was mentioning (10 bits 444) unless he meant less than 50/60p.
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post #1459 of 4136 Old 11-03-2013, 01:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post

They can accept 2160p60, only at rec709 420 8bits which doesn't comply with UHDTV as defined by BT.2020 or with what Steve Carter was mentioning (10 bits 444) unless he meant less than 50/60p.

Hi,

one point, it's exactly the same thing for the Sony VPL-VW500 :

"New 4K standard: 60 frames per second

The VPL-VW500ES can show up to 60 frames per second in 4K (at colour signal YUV 4:2:0). It’s the new 4K industry standard and is much higher than the earlier 24p."


http://www.sony.co.uk/pro/product/projectors-homecinema/vpl-vw500es/features#features

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Hi,

one point, it's exactly the same thing for the Sony VPL-VW500 :

"New 4K standard: 60 frames per second

The VPL-VW500ES can show up to 60 frames per second in 4K (at colour signal YUV 4:2:0). It’s the new 4K industry standard and is much higher than the earlier 24p."


http://www.sony.co.uk/pro/product/projectors-homecinema/vpl-vw500es/features#features

Hi Thebes, yes we know that (thanks by the way that's the chart I mentioned in my earlier post), and JVC knows that, that's why I'm wondering why Sony claims hdmi 2.0 compatibility and not JVC, as 420 is not supported by hdmi 1.4 (which is why the vw1000 pre-upgrade is limited to 4K@30p), it is one of the features specifically brought by hdmi 2.0, not to improve quality but to save bandwidth (as hdmi 1.4 doesn't support 420 and converts it to 422, which takes more space). It doesn't matter for HD as there is even bandwidth even at 60p, but this is what allows the new Sony and JVC models to support 4K at 60p with chipsets limited to 10.2gbits/s. Maybe JVC decided that claiming for HDMI 2.0 compliance while not supporting HDCP 2.2 would be misleading. On another hand they call e-shift 4K, so usually it's not a huge concern of their marketing team smile.gif .
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Let's get serious here for a moment and cease this endless technical babble leading to nightmares as to how long will it take for these new JVC machines to become obsolete. And this of course primarily will depend on source content and its availability.

OK. Pay attention. The above post mentioned that claimed HDMI 2.0 compatibility but without HDCP 2.2 was not a huge concern of the JVC marketing team (I wrote to JVC USA asking for an autographed picture of that team and received no response). So what would be a huge concern for them? I am not accusing them of actually stealing a base by taking it from the ball park, but that would be the type of claim and concern that would be huge. Claiming their machines will display 4K natively would be such a HUGE concern. They do have the word native in their computers because they used that as their mantra for years, native contrast versus stupid whoops heh heh heh dynamic contrast, and now their mantra is intelligent. I do not read any of their materials as claiming a native 4K display ability.

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post #1462 of 4136 Old 11-03-2013, 08:20 AM
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Hi Thebes, yes we know that (thanks by the way that's the chart I mentioned in my earlier post), and JVC knows that, that's why I'm wondering why Sony claims hdmi 2.0 compatibility and not JVC, as 420 is not supported by hdmi 1.4 (which is why the vw1000 pre-upgrade is limited to 4K@30p), it is one of the features specifically brought by hdmi 2.0, not to improve quality but to save bandwidth (as hdmi 1.4 doesn't support 420 and converts it to 422, which takes more space). It doesn't matter for HD as there is even bandwidth even at 60p, but this is what allows the new Sony and JVC models to support 4K at 60p with chipsets limited to 10.2gbits/s. Maybe JVC decided that claiming for HDMI 2.0 compliance while not supporting HDCP 2.2 would be misleading. On another hand they call e-shift 4K, so usually it's not a huge concern of their marketing team smile.gif .

HDMI implementations need to go thru certification and Sony has done that in order to advertise they have HDMI 2.0. However, it appears the JVC implementation cannot be certified as meeting the minimum requirements for HDMI 2.0. I don't have a copy of the HDMI 2.0 spec. but perhaps HDCP 2.2 is a minimum requirement.

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HDMI implementations need to go thru certification and Sony has done that in order to advertise they have HDMI 2.0. However, it appears the JVC implementation cannot be certified as meeting the minimum requirements for HDMI 2.0. I don't have a copy of the HDMI 2.0 spec. but perhaps HDCP 2.2 is a minimum requirement.

Thanks a lot for this clarification.
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So....say I got an RS57 today, what are the options for even viewing 4k material right now on it?? Just a redray player?

4K. Yay.
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So....say I got an RS57 today, what are the options for even viewing 4k material right now on it?? Just a redray player?

Any unprotected source which doesn't need more than 4K@60p@420 in 8 bits.

So demo footage from a redray player, 4K clips from youtube (if your GPU and software player supports 4K like the HD7xxx range from AMD or their recent R9), consumer 4K camcorder (Sony, gopro, upcoming Panasonic GH4, etc), professional 4K or 5K camera (Red etc), upscaled output from a 204x Radiance, etc...
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Except you can't get a Redray player. I have had one on order since approximately December 1st, 2012. The order page has raised the order price to $1750 from the preorder $1450 and the new orders expected to ship within 2 to 3 weeks is to me a blatant misstatement. The 2 to 3 weeks has been up for about 4 months now. And why do you want to feed the JVC 4K anyway. It can't accept a 4K source. The RS57 is limited to receiving 1080p or lower resolution sources and then upscales them to UHD and processes and extracts two 1080p frames for sequential and e-shifted display as a UHD resolution. a pretty good 4K image but not as good as a native 4K image or even a direct UHD image input and displayed from 2 1080p frames e-shifted to UHD.

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Except you can't get a Redray player. I have had one on order since approximately December 1st, 2012. The order page has raised the order price to $1750 from the preorder $1450 and the new orders expected to ship within 2 to 3 weeks is to me a blatant misstatement. The 2 to 3 weeks has been up for about 4 months now. And why do you want to feed the JVC 4K anyway. It can't accept a 4K source. The RS57 is limited to receiving 1080p or lower resolution sources and then upscales them to UHD and processes and extracts two 1080p frames for sequential and e-shifted display as a UHD resolution. a pretty good 4K image but not as good as a native 4K image or even a direct UHD image input and displayed from 2 1080p frames e-shifted to UHD.
The bold part is not true -- the RS57 will accept 4K sources and the post directly above yours outlines what it will accept (you could also add the upscaling Oppo BD Player to that list).

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Geof. You know I wouldn't deliberately post an untruth. Isn't the RS57 last year's model, have I got the numbers mixed up,? This year's model will accept 4K UHD in but not last years.

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Geof. You know I wouldn't deliberately post an untruth. Isn't the RS57 last year's model, have I got the numbers mixed up,? This year's model will accept 4K UHD in but not last years.

Yes mark you got your numbers wrong:) the rs57 is this year's successor to the rs56. I was waiting for Mike to correct you smile.gif
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Looks like I got the model numbers mixed up and the RS57 is this year's model. There would be a benefit in feeding native UHD in but probably little benefit in feeding it upscaled to UHD. For that to be true, a benefit in using an external scaler, the upscaler prior to the JVC would have to be beter than the built in JVC upscaler and that assessment will have to await A/Bs comparing the JVC built in to other upscalers such as the Oppo and the Lumagen and a variety of other Bluray players such as the Sony and a bunch of AV receivers. Sorry my mistake, it of course was not deliberate.

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