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post #1711 of 4136 Old 11-13-2013, 02:01 AM
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I would wait for Zombie10k's reviews before assuming what has better black levels or where it fits. He is pretty good at placing a projector where it belongs black-level wise. Many reviewers and sometimes various people in here often make statements about black levels that are not really valid, there are a lot of variables you have to eliminate to compare black levels between two projectors.

Ever since some reviewers claimed some of the worst projectors at black levels were "above average" or close enough to not matter, I no longer even listen to reviewers on this either.

The main difference between lower-end JVC's and lower-end Sony's was the sharpness, JVC had better sharpness. Some say the motion, but to me the sharpness mattered more. The Sony did have better color though too, so that was another +! for the Sony. No idea on this year's Sony's.
Also, depending on how bright you watch a JVC and how far you close the IRIS, blacks are relative. If people are going to compare blacks, you need to get it at close to the same brightness unless two projectors are just way different in contrast, but when they are close in contrast like a Sony and JVC, the comparison is very difficult to perform correctly for most people, unless you want to measure it directly as in On/Off measurements.


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post #1712 of 4136 Old 11-13-2013, 02:37 AM
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Streaking is caused by the lens elements and varies depending on lens shift and varies from unit to unit. Clear black would most likely be trying to minimise the effects of neighbouring pixel illumination as I suggested earlier in the thread. I can't see any way that this can counter something that is caused by the lens. If anyone wants a theory as to how neighbouring pixel illumination could be handled I can go into more detail as I worked out a solution for this some time ago....I should have patented it first!

As for the whites being too bright when the dynamic aperture is enabled. Remember that the JVC menu options only allow you to crop in one direction. So if the lens aperture in manual is set wide open it will run all the way from max white to minimum. There is no way to reduce the 10x contrast to something smaller as you can't set a minimum. If you reduce the lens aperture in manual mode you crop the maximum side allowing you to reduce the swing but limit peak white in the process. If there are side effects of the dynamic aperture they will more likely show up for users with the aperture nearest to wide open. I suspect when he said the whites are too bright, is that the dynamic swing was set too high such that your eyes can't cope with it and are blinded by the whites as a result.
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post #1713 of 4136 Old 11-13-2013, 08:11 AM
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Instead of fixing the issue with updating the actual lens they decided to add another layer of processing on top of everything else....
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post #1714 of 4136 Old 11-13-2013, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

Instead of fixing the issue with updating the actual lens they decided to add another layer of processing on top of everything else....
If that is what the feature actually does. I'm not 100% sure that this is what the feature is for. Maybe it is, but still seems possible that this is for reducing blooming type effects around bright objects that is in the source material itself or even for reducing noise near black (although that could take away detail we don't want to lose) and blooming that is near black in the process. I'm not clear about how advanced this feature is and whether it takes things into account like pixel values in the vicinity.

EDIT: Seems like it does take pixel values in the vicinity into account. From here:

http://pro.jvc.com/pro/pr/2013/releases/cedia.html

"Picture quality is also enhanced through a new Clear Black feature that provides local area contrast enhancement"

this may be about more than any lens or other projector issues. It may be more desirable with lens or other projector issues, but some people might want local area contrast enhancement from what the sources contain even if a projector itself added no blooming type effects.

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post #1715 of 4136 Old 11-13-2013, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post

If that is what the feature actually does. I'm not 100% sure that this is what the feature is for. Maybe it is, but still seems possible that this is for reducing blooming type effects around bright objects that is in the source material itself or even for reducing noise near black (although that could take away detail we don't want to lose) and blooming that is near black in the process. I'm not clear about how advanced this feature is and whether it takes things into account like pixel values in the vicinity.

EDIT: Seems like it does take pixel values in the vicinity into account. From here:

http://pro.jvc.com/pro/pr/2013/releases/cedia.html

"Picture quality is also enhanced through a new Clear Black feature that provides local area contrast enhancement"

this may be about more than any lens or other projector issues. It may be more desirable with lens or other projector issues, but some people might want local area contrast enhancement from what the sources contain even if a projector itself added no blooming type effects.

--Darin
I'm certainly going to look at this clear black feature but I at this point I remain skeptical and think it may help some things but not others. It just sounds like another layer of processing that I probably won't want. Time will tell......

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post #1716 of 4136 Old 11-13-2013, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

...but when they are close in contrast like a Sony and JVC...

I thought the JVC's had much better native contrast than Sony, or do you mean overall effective CR w/DI?

Though I guess 2X and even 3X better native is in the same ballpark perception-wise.

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post #1717 of 4136 Old 11-13-2013, 01:40 PM
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So yes, the clear black is to remove local blooming. Did not see anything pertaining to streaking.

The anoying effect was in Oblivion, but not for clear black. See JonStatt's comment as he explains it better than i do.

All these new features will work in some material but not so much on other. I'm pretty sure that there will be a lot of work to do by futur buyers as to find the perfect
balance between each features.
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post #1718 of 4136 Old 11-14-2013, 08:56 AM
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I still have my RS55 and last night I was playing around with the Lens Memory feature - it allows for 3 pre-sets. I hadn't tried this much before for a few reasons, one being that I vary my image size so much, 3 pre-sets wouldn't come close to covering it so I've done the zoom/shift manually. And secondly, I hadn't got it programmed into my universal remote anyway. But I just made 3 different pre-set image sizes, matching 3 of my 4-way masking image size pre-sets and pressed the masking (on my universal remote) and the lens pre-set button on the JVC remote. I was quite happy to see that the lens ended up accurately re-sizing the image to the masking pre-set every time! With the new RS57 and it's 10 lens memory pre-sets, I think I'll incorporate those into my system.

Although I did experience the annoying additional image pages that occur after the lens has reached it's pre-set. It's like I had to back out of 3 layers of menu afterward. I seem to remember from the UK forum that some firmware update allowed the user to bypass those additional menu pages, and I believe (hope) that is the case with these new JVC projectors as well.
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post #1719 of 4136 Old 11-14-2013, 10:36 AM
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I have preordered a 4610 based on the advice here and now I need to proceed with some other new pieces, one of which is a new screen. My way of doing things is usually to find the "sweet spot" which I define loosely as spending the money and effort to get approximately 90% of the benefit without doubling the price for the last 10%. I believe I have done that with this projector. Now I need a new screen.

My room is 13' 4" wide by 18' 6" long. It has an 8' 6" suspended black ceiling. The floor is carpeted over concrete. The walls are insulated 2x4 studs on 2x6 plates on 16" centers alternating on each side of the wall. There are no windows and we do not use the lights except to get into and out of the room. My present aging projector is a Panasonic AE900 projected onto a 4x8' sheet of Parkland ($11.83). The focus and zoom is set for the TV to be 48" high and everything else is what develops. We have decided that we are happy with the height but wish to have movies a little larger. Our mount is a DIY ceiling appproximatel 13" away and we sit 11 1/2 to 12' away. The wall is flat black unfinished drywall. With our new screen it will be covered with fake velvet. When new, we thought nothing could get better!

My plan would be to have a screen that is 48" high and 112" wide and zoomed to fit the height. I probably have t o go to the DIY screen forum. to get the latest on materials but perhaps here is the place to ask about gain. I also cannot tell from anywhere if this projector has component inputs as my current receiver (Sherwood Newcastle 965) does't have HDMI. I need to know if I need a new receiver immediately or can I do things a step at a time. The new receiver will most likely be a Denon X4000. I am also hoping that I can turn this projector upside down and find a few vacant holes to redrill my ceiling mount to match.

With all that, I want to thank you in advance and solicit any input you may be able to provide.
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post #1720 of 4136 Old 11-14-2013, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor Bill View Post

I have preordered a 4610 based on the advice here and now I need to proceed with some other new pieces, one of which is a new screen. My way of doing things is usually to find the "sweet spot" which I define loosely as spending the money and effort to get approximately 90% of the benefit without doubling the price for the last 10%. I believe I have done that with this projector. Now I need a new screen.

My room is 13' 4" wide by 18' 6" long. It has an 8' 6" suspended black ceiling. The floor is carpeted over concrete. The walls are insulated 2x4 studs on 2x6 plates on 16" centers alternating on each side of the wall. There are no windows and we do not use the lights except to get into and out of the room. My present aging projector is a Panasonic AE900 projected onto a 4x8' sheet of Parkland ($11.83). The focus and zoom is set for the TV to be 48" high and everything else is what develops. We have decided that we are happy with the height but wish to have movies a little larger. Our mount is a DIY ceiling appproximatel 13" away and we sit 11 1/2 to 12' away. The wall is flat black unfinished drywall. With our new screen it will be covered with fake velvet. When new, we thought nothing could get better!

My plan would be to have a screen that is 48" high and 112" wide and zoomed to fit the height. I probably have t o go to the DIY screen forum. to get the latest on materials but perhaps here is the place to ask about gain. I also cannot tell from anywhere if this projector has component inputs as my current receiver (Sherwood Newcastle 965) does't have HDMI. I need to know if I need a new receiver immediately or can I do things a step at a time. The new receiver will most likely be a Denon X4000. I am also hoping that I can turn this projector upside down and find a few vacant holes to redrill my ceiling mount to match.

With all that, I want to thank you in advance and solicit any input you may be able to provide.

The 4810 has one set of component connections. 12'-9" is apron. minimum throw, so you will be maxing the light output of the 4810. For 2D movie viewing, 1.3 gain would be my suggestion.

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post #1721 of 4136 Old 11-14-2013, 12:30 PM
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Does anyone have a Darbee connected to his current gen JVC projector? Is it recommended for projecors with eshift or does it look too oversharpened?
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post #1722 of 4136 Old 11-14-2013, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odedia View Post

Does anyone have a Darbee connected to his current gen JVC projector? Is it recommended for projecors with eshift or does it look too oversharpened?
Yes. Yes. No. smile.gifsmile.gif
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post #1723 of 4136 Old 11-14-2013, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by odedia View Post

Does anyone have a Darbee connected to his current gen JVC projector? Is it recommended for projecors with eshift or does it look too oversharpened?

There was a lot of discussion on this in Zombie's shootout thread last spring, including lots of close-up photos showing the effects.

It works great with eshift, and does different things than the JVC's MPC settings do. Provided you don't crank up the effect too much, even PQ sticklers like me prefer it.
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post #1724 of 4136 Old 11-14-2013, 12:54 PM
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Yes. Yes. No. smile.gifsmile.gif

Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. biggrin.gif
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post #1725 of 4136 Old 11-14-2013, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odedia View Post

Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. biggrin.gif
You're welcome, welcome, welcome.....cool.gif

I think you'll find (just as most of us have) that the Darbee actually works quite well with eShift and they augment each other pretty well.

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post #1726 of 4136 Old 11-14-2013, 01:13 PM
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odedia,

Not only does it work with JVC's E-shift, it actually seems a particularly good match. I find a judicious combination of JVC's MPC settings (adding detail/contrast/dimensionality) with the Darbee works wonders - even better than both on their own.
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post #1727 of 4136 Old 11-14-2013, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

I still have my RS55 and last night I was playing around with the Lens Memory feature - it allows for 3 pre-sets. I hadn't tried this much before for a few reasons, one being that I vary my image size so much, 3 pre-sets wouldn't come close to covering it so I've done the zoom/shift manually. And secondly, I hadn't got it programmed into my universal remote anyway. But I just made 3 different pre-set image sizes, matching 3 of my 4-way masking image size pre-sets and pressed the masking (on my universal remote) and the lens pre-set button on the JVC remote. I was quite happy to see that the lens ended up accurately re-sizing the image to the masking pre-set every time! With the new RS57 and it's 10 lens memory pre-sets, I think I'll incorporate those into my system.

Although I did experience the annoying additional image pages that occur after the lens has reached it's pre-set. It's like I had to back out of 3 layers of menu afterward. I seem to remember from the UK forum that some firmware update allowed the user to bypass those additional menu pages, and I believe (hope) that is the case with these new JVC projectors as well.

10 lens memory settings for the x900/x700 and 5 for the x500. Stores custom focus. zoom and H/V lens shift position. There will be also 2 memory settings for pixel convergence , good for curved screens.

Sorry to say that the menus/sub-menus have a lot of layers.

There will be also 7 image modes for 3D for x700 and up .
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post #1728 of 4136 Old 11-14-2013, 07:01 PM
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When was the estimate shipping for these new Jvc models?
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post #1729 of 4136 Old 11-14-2013, 07:04 PM
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The 2nd week in December.

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post #1730 of 4136 Old 11-14-2013, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

I still have my RS55 and last night I was playing around with the Lens Memory feature - it allows for 3 pre-sets. I hadn't tried this much before for a few reasons, one being that I vary my image size so much, 3 pre-sets wouldn't come close to covering it so I've done the zoom/shift manually. And secondly, I hadn't got it programmed into my universal remote anyway. But I just made 3 different pre-set image sizes, matching 3 of my 4-way masking image size pre-sets and pressed the masking (on my universal remote) and the lens pre-set button on the JVC remote. I was quite happy to see that the lens ended up accurately re-sizing the image to the masking pre-set every time! With the new RS57 and it's 10 lens memory pre-sets, I think I'll incorporate those into my system.

Although I did experience the annoying additional image pages that occur after the lens has reached it's pre-set. It's like I had to back out of 3 layers of menu afterward. I seem to remember from the UK forum that some firmware update allowed the user to bypass those additional menu pages, and I believe (hope) that is the case with these new JVC projectors as well.

One of my fav features of the RS55 Rich since I Zoom-zoom-zoom as well (no CIH for me). I use IP commands from my custom designed iPad screen from iRule (from UK Gary's excellent RS232 doc), which allows one button press for each of the memory settings 1.78 & 2.35 below (like you say it remembers the position perfectly!).


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post #1731 of 4136 Old 11-14-2013, 09:09 PM
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(from UK Gary's excellent RS232 doc),

More info! Google turns up nothing...
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post #1732 of 4136 Old 11-14-2013, 09:31 PM
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Extremely pumped. Locked up a preorder for the 57 last night with Mike. Went out of the order I had drawn up but when he said he got 10 more extra I couldn't hesitate. Looking forward to the future of my setup.
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Love sports, movies, and games. Slowly some day I'll add a projector and screen. Until then, I'll build up my library.
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post #1733 of 4136 Old 11-14-2013, 09:47 PM
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More info! Google turns up nothing...


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post #1734 of 4136 Old 11-14-2013, 09:58 PM
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The 2nd week in December.

Actually anticipating receiving and shipping the first shipment the first week of December. It will be the second week for customers to receive projectors from the first shipment. Craig knows this. Just clarifying his post. Of course all of this is based on JVC hitting the projected target date, which they have for the last three years. smile.gif

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post #1735 of 4136 Old 11-14-2013, 10:15 PM
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The Gary Guide wink.gif

No wonder I couldn't find it, I was looking for something unofficial.

I find it odd that they have two different docs covering the same info. (The CEDIA Command spec being the other.)
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post #1736 of 4136 Old 11-15-2013, 05:55 AM
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No wonder I couldn't find it, I was looking for something unofficial.

I find it odd that they have two different docs covering the same info. (The CEDIA Command spec being the other.)
I don't believe the Cedia Command Spec covers IR commands (It deals with RS232 communications).
GaryB did not update his guide last year...hopefully he'll get an update out this year.

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post #1737 of 4136 Old 11-15-2013, 07:34 AM
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Official site still says it will be out in november:
http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/category.jsp?productId=PRO6.1

Somes accept 4K input, so they are finally true 4K ?

Update: looks like *NO*. JVC has top bar the confusion meter.

[]s,
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post #1738 of 4136 Old 11-15-2013, 07:49 AM
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Official site still says it will be out in november:
http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/category.jsp?productId=PRO6.1

Somes accept 4K input, so they are finally true 4K ?

Update: looks like *NO*. JVC has top bar the confusion meter.

JVC always stated November
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post #1739 of 4136 Old 11-15-2013, 08:00 AM
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JVC always stated November

Yep. JVC ships about the last day of November. We receive the first week of December. This is based on JVC hitting the end of November date, which they have hit the last few years. smile.gif

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RBH, Martin Logan, Triad, Atlantic Tech., MK Sound, BG Radia, SVS & Def Tech, Denon, Marantz & Yamaha .
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post #1740 of 4136 Old 11-15-2013, 02:49 PM
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I ordered a JVC X500 today, will get in the 1st week of December, pretty excited, will report my opinions once I have watched BladeRunner. lol Should be a big jump from my BenQ W7000.

James Reid:D
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Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

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Sony Vpl Vw1000es Projector , Jvc Dla X900r , Jvc Dla X700r
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