Samsung OLED. Best picture ever. I'm scared to see one. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 28 Old 08-17-2013, 07:23 AM - Thread Starter
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So, the Samsung 55" OLED is finally here. According to every review (cnet, digital trends, HD Guru, etc) the holy grail of picture quality has arrived. The dream of perfect blacks and infinite contrast ratio is here, and can be had for a measly 9000.00:eek: which is still 5000.00 cheaper then it was supposed to be.

I've been very happy with projectors, and I think they even surpass many LED LCDs and even some plasmas in black level and contrast ratio. Only very bright scenes look much better on plasma (ANSI contrast).

I also want the best picture possible. The picture that gives you that looking out a window effect. I want to watch Scifi with perfect inky blacks, etc. Projectors haven't really evolved much in the last 10 years. For projectors to really jump into OLED territory they would need per pixel illumination. Anyone one know if that is going to be possible in the future? The only thing I can think of is lasers that scan directly to the screen.

I was excited to see the OLED when Best Buy gets it, but now I'm worried that I'll have TV envy biggrin.gif

I guess it's really picture vs. size. But, when you read comments that people did not want to leave the OLED demo and almost missed their plane because the picture was so good, I get a little jealous. I haven't really watched a projector for a while now where I just wanted to watch because I was so blown away by the picture. I'm so used to it, that maybe I take watching a big screen for granted now. Even though I have a decent size screen (110") it's nothing compared to an IMAX or some of the larger cinemas, but I don't really go to the movies anymore because I like my picture better then what I get with Imax. So i guess size isn't everything or else I would be seeing every movie in Imax.

Yeah 55" is too small for now, but OLED can easily reach sizes of 80" plus in the next few years. Anyone else think of jumping to OLED, and giving up on projectors when OLED gets BIGGER? Of course your never gonna get an OLED 200" (for now anyway, untill they get the ones you can roll up) but I can see 100" models coming. Once OLED ramps up to LCD levels it will be way cheaper to manufacture and larger sizes will be easily available.
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post #2 of 28 Old 08-17-2013, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

...Yeah 55" is too small for now, but OLED can easily reach sizes of 80" plus in the next few years. Anyone else think of jumping to OLED, and giving up on projectors when OLED gets BIGGER? Of course your never gonna get an OLED 200" (for now anyway, untill they get the ones you can roll up) but I can see 100" models coming. Once OLED ramps up to LCD levels it will be way cheaper to manufacture and larger sizes will be easily available.

I think that section of your post says it all. Right now it's only 55", so it's a long ways away from replacing projectors. Even at 100", that's much too small for many on this forum to consider replacing a projector (myself included).

So, until we can have the roll-up versions in sizes over 140", it's not compelling as a replacement for a projector. For the plasma or LCD that you have elsewhere, absolutely! But right now we're a very long ways from replacing projectors with giant roll-up OLED displays that don't cost more than your house.

When that day comes, however, I'll be more than happy to make the switch!
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post #3 of 28 Old 08-17-2013, 08:43 AM
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when they can make a 140" + roll down that looks as amazing as the screen on the Galaxy S4, they can close down the forum, there won't be any reason to post anymore. cool.gif

seriously though, this tiny screen's contrast performance is impressive. black is pitch black which is striking when you first see it. If I ever spent $$ again on a TV, it's going to have to be one of these OLED models.


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post #4 of 28 Old 08-17-2013, 06:39 PM
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I read some reviews that stated it wasn't as impressive as expected. And that UHD/4k tvs were much more so.

Check out the news forum on here for some unbiased, firsthand accounts.

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post #5 of 28 Old 08-17-2013, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baloo_btru View Post

I read some reviews that stated it wasn't as impressive as expected. And that UHD/4k tvs were much more so.

Check out the news forum on here for some unbiased, firsthand accounts.

Then there is the Sony 56inch 4K UHD OLED, a pro model that's been making the rounds at some trade shows. I saw it at Infocomm in June.

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post #6 of 28 Old 08-17-2013, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

when they can make a 140" + roll down that looks as amazing as the screen on the Galaxy S4, they can close down the forum, there won't be any reason to post anymore. cool.gif

seriously though, this tiny screen's contrast performance is impressive. black is pitch black which is striking when you first see it. If I ever spent $$ again on a TV, it's going to have to be one of these OLED models.

No kidding. While I'm waiting for a rom to load on the Game Boy Advance emulator on my S4, except for the white of the gamepad buttons, it looks like the screen is off. It would be something to have a projector with blacks like that!

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post #7 of 28 Old 08-18-2013, 11:58 AM
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I know what you mean, OP.

Flat panels have the ability to get scary-good contrast and over all image quality. I just keep hoping projector manufacturers feel the need to keep improving these specs in projectors as well.

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post #8 of 28 Old 08-18-2013, 01:29 PM
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While the picture quality is most likely better than anything a projector can give, I've always found watching a movie on through a panel very un-cinematic. I don't mean size proportions either. Viewing a movie on a projection screen gives the image a totally unique look, even if it's worse than OLED, that I find attractive. Afterall we call it home "theater" for a reason. We're trying to recreate, as close as possible, the theatrical experience.

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post #9 of 28 Old 08-18-2013, 01:31 PM
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What non-OLED flat panel has native on/off contrast above 160,000:1? That's the highest measurement I was able to find for the JVC X95. Even some of the lesser models have contrast ratios beyond what you'll find on most flat panels. Flat panels do have insane ANSI contrast compared to any projector but that usually isn't as apparent in actual content compared to the benefits of high on/off contrast.

I already posted this in the other forum, but here's a quote relevant to this discussion from the cnet reviewer who tested the Samsung OLED:
Quote:
katzmaier Aug 16, 2013
@DarthCardo I'd take the OLED, assuming you're talking about the 55-inch VT, despite the curve. But if I could have any size VT/ZT OR a 55-inch OLED, I'd take the 65-inch ZT. Size wins IMO.
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post #10 of 28 Old 08-21-2013, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

when they can make a 140" + roll down that looks as amazing as the screen on the Galaxy S4, they can close down the forum, there won't be any reason to post anymore. cool.gif

seriously though, this tiny screen's contrast performance is impressive. black is pitch black which is striking when you first see it. If I ever spent $$ again on a TV, it's going to have to be one of these OLED models.

No kidding. I couldn't agree more. I've been watching some Breaking Bad on my S4 and it just blows me away to see what seems to be absolute black. So impressive.

Thanks!
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post #11 of 28 Old 08-21-2013, 07:39 PM
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What's the lifespan of these new panels? I remember reading that earlier versions of OLED panels only had a usable life of up to 2-3 years before the screen literally broke down enough to the point where it wouldn't work anymore which is why we were only seeing OLEDs on smartphones with the thought that people upgrade to a new phone after two years anyways so that short lifespan wouldn't matter. This sounds similar to Epson's organic LCD panels they were using in projectors just a few short years ago. They're now using inorganic LCD panels that last a lot longer and won'y break down anywhere near as fast as the organic LCD panels do. Are these new OLED panels actually inorganic 'OLED's? If I'm spending $10000+ on a new flat screen I'd want it to last more than a few years.

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post #12 of 28 Old 08-21-2013, 08:25 PM
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It looks like there are a number of companies patenting techniques to lengthen the OLED life span.

http://www.konicaminolta.com/about/research/oled/about/

"Using a phosphorescent substance with high light emission efficiency to artificially synthesize organic materials that can withstand a billion repetitions of light emission, Konica Minolta has succeeded in developing OLED that possesses light emission efficiency and long life on a par with fluorescent lamps."

I'm hoping this technology succeeds. I can envision a large version of the Samsung S4 screen which is just remarkable for a display. Sci-fi fans will go nuts when low APL scenes will be pitch black in the background.

Please make it printable so we can get a UHD version @ 150"+ (2020?) . cool.gif


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post #13 of 28 Old 08-21-2013, 08:31 PM
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A billion light repetitions? What does that mean exactly? Like a billion image frames? If that's correct that would mean that the TV could only be on for just under 200 days (4629 hours) straight if it is displaying at 60hz before it dies. Am I reading this wrong? I must be wrong because they claim this means it lasts as long as CCFLs.

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post #14 of 28 Old 08-21-2013, 08:46 PM
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They are claiming "long life on a par with fluorescent lamps."

it seems like a bold statement but maybe it's possible. There's a number of other companies who were working on methods to extend the OLED lifespan. Maybe Samsung already bought them. cool.gif

Apple hired an OLED expert from LG earlier in the year.

It looks like big companies are finally spending money on OLED. This means it finally has a chance to thrive.


it's interesting to look back at Sony's 11" OLED model in this article from 2007, they claim a relatively long life.

http://www.techhive.com/article/137884/article.html

"Sony said the XEL-1 has a viewing life of 30,000 hours, which allows a user to watch eight hours of television each day for 10 years."


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post #15 of 28 Old 08-22-2013, 01:59 AM
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I for one would wonder about color accuracy. Previous iterations of OLED displays on smartphones are quite terrible regarding gradation and accuracy. Neon colors, an overall cast of green and blue, shades of gray not being displayed. While the S4 is a huge leap, it still has oversaturated colors. Blacks are reference level but I suspect that the other challenge besides lifespan is the ability to handle gradation and clot accuracy.
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post #16 of 28 Old 08-22-2013, 06:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

It looks like there are a number of companies patenting techniques to lengthen the OLED life span.

http://www.konicaminolta.com/about/research/oled/about/

"Using a phosphorescent substance with high light emission efficiency to artificially synthesize organic materials that can withstand a billion repetitions of light emission, Konica Minolta has succeeded in developing OLED that possesses light emission efficiency and long life on a par with fluorescent lamps."

I'm hoping this technology succeeds. I can envision a large version of the Samsung S4 screen which is just remarkable for a display. Sci-fi fans will go nuts when low APL scenes will be pitch black in the background.

Please make it printable so we can get a UHD version @ 150"+ (2020?) . cool.gif

I know a few years ago I read an article that said the did exactly that. They used ink jet printers to print the organic matter right on the OLED substrate. They said sizes could be almost endless. They gotta get down the flat panel market first before they concentrate on giving us what we want. So do your part and buy as many OLED as you can so we can get our Huge screens biggrin.gif

10 years from now we will all have our own personal holodecks. I'm talking about the entire room, all 4 walls and ceiling and floor lined with OLED wallpaper!!

The reason I'm so hyped for OLED is because the FUTURE possibilities are endless. It also annoys me that those punny sized OLEDs will destroy any projector for picture quality. LIke I said before, I liked the picture on my top Sony's, JVC, and even Epson, more then a lot of the top LCDs I've seen and the black level on the JVC was about equal to a KURO. Now with OLED a projector will never compete with it on strictly picture quality. Quality vs. Size has always bugged me. My dad used to own an old crappy non HD LCD projector and I ended up buying a 50" plasma because the picture was so much better. I enjoyed watching that 50" Plasma more then watching a 130" screen. Then many years later I got a Sony Pearl and the rest is history.........now we have OLED mad.gif

I think I may buy the Samsung 55" OLED to see how it compares at home. I'll put it in my batcave and get within 3 feet of it and see how it works. I wonder if because the bezel and border will be invisible during dark scenes, and having nothing around for size reference. Can I trick my brain into getting a HT experience? The Sony HMD kinda does that by using cell phone size screens a few inches from your face and it works pretty nicely.
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post #17 of 28 Old 08-22-2013, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Matrixfan View Post

I for one would wonder about color accuracy. Previous iterations of OLED displays on smartphones are quite terrible regarding gradation and accuracy. Neon colors, an overall cast of green and blue, shades of gray not being displayed. While the S4 is a huge leap, it still has oversaturated colors. Blacks are reference level but I suspect that the other challenge besides lifespan is the ability to handle gradation and clot accuracy.

some info on the S4 screen


http://www.displaymate.com/Galaxy_S4_ShootOut_1.htm

One interesting technical development is that the latest OLED displays use digital Pulse Width Modulation to specify the brightness of every sub-pixel. This makes it possible for OLED displays like the Galaxy S4 to precisely vary and directly digitally control their Intensity Scales, Gamma values, White Points, color calibration and color management of the display in firmware or software.

Color Gamut and Color Accuracy
The Galaxy S4 Movie Mode delivers the closest Color and White Point calibration to the standard sRGB/Rec.709 consumer content that is used for digital camera, HDTV, internet, and computer content, including virtually all photos and videos. Use the Movie Mode for the best color and image accuracy


The out of the box setting is over-saturated. The movie mode looks quite good. Now I'm going to have to measure it with my calibrated meter. cool.gif I don't see any reason why these OLED screens couldn't be calibrated to near perfect D65 / R709.

A 100"+ version of this screen would be amazing, crushing the absolute best that FP's can handle today.


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post #18 of 28 Old 08-22-2013, 07:37 AM
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Thanks Zombie, a very informative read on Displaymate! I knew about the site, but their review of the S4 screen was new for me. For me the S4 is the first OLED phone I would consider other than the iPhone or the HTC One. Color accuracy and usable brightness are fundamental features for me when purchasing a device.

If gradation works properly, the lower brightness is not an issue for home theater application. In fact, I often feel that an LCD tv causes more fatigue to the eyes when watching long movies, the occasional noticeable sub field drive of plasma panels is a much better "compromise". This may be one advantage of projectors that the screen is a secondary light source, perhaps easier on the eyes during long movies.
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post #19 of 28 Old 08-22-2013, 07:42 AM
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But where is the acoustically transparent 160" wide version of this set? smile.gif

That's my problem with flat panel tech. Once you get big enough to put the huge screen in a dedicated theater, you no longer have a way to properly position a center channel.
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post #20 of 28 Old 08-30-2013, 12:12 PM - Thread Starter
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http://economy.hankooki.com/lpage/industry/201308/e20130829181252120180.htm

Should see 77" OLED at IFA and maybe a 110" prototype!

It's starting. Hopefully the huge sizes wont just end up being vapourware.
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post #21 of 28 Old 10-07-2013, 05:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

What's the lifespan of these new panels? I remember reading that earlier versions of OLED panels only had a usable life of up to 2-3 years before the screen literally broke down enough to the point where it wouldn't work anymore which is why we were only seeing OLEDs on smartphones with the thought that people upgrade to a new phone after two years anyways so that short lifespan wouldn't matter. This sounds similar to Epson's organic LCD panels they were using in projectors just a few short years ago. They're now using inorganic LCD panels that last a lot longer and won'y break down anywhere near as fast as the organic LCD panels do. Are these new OLED panels actually inorganic 'OLED's? If I'm spending $10000+ on a new flat screen I'd want it to last more than a few years.

So, what I take this to mean is that the industry should develop a revised version of the OLED technology that is non-organic, making it NOLED...that sounds like a winner for the catchphrase of the new technology...its name itself defeats the competition!

So, I currently have 110" DLP projected image and a 55" VT30...I'd trade BOTH of them in for a 90" OLED...I'll scoot my chair up for the trade off of infinite contrast. (thought size IS very important)
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post #22 of 28 Old 10-08-2013, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post

But where is the acoustically transparent 160" wide version of this set? smile.gif

That's my problem with flat panel tech. Once you get big enough to put the huge screen in a dedicated theater, you no longer have a way to properly position a center channel.

Amen, +1 and all that

Until the audio aspect is addressed, larger than 70 or 84" flat panels are a dead end.

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post #23 of 28 Old 10-13-2013, 10:37 AM
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Amen, +1 and all that

Until the audio aspect is addressed, larger than 70 or 84" flat panels are a dead end.

One center channel above and one below, once properly directed and balanced, can work pretty well.
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post #24 of 28 Old 10-13-2013, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pottscb View Post

...So, what I take this to mean is that the industry should develop a revised version of the OLED technology that is non-organic, making it NOLED...that sounds like a winner for the catchphrase of the new technology...its name itself defeats the competition!...

The previous generation of technology is what you describe, only it's called "inorganic". OLED is an advancement/alternative to the previous generation of inorganic LED. So I don't think that would work well....
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post #25 of 28 Old 10-16-2013, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post

But where is the acoustically transparent 160" wide version of this set? smile.gif

That's my problem with flat panel tech. Once you get big enough to put the huge screen in a dedicated theater, you no longer have a way to properly position a center channel.

Well you could just poke holes between the pixels in the display. Pretty sure this would be trivial in the case of large displays where the pixel density is really low (i.e. 1080p at 100" or more).
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post #26 of 28 Old 10-17-2013, 01:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Dave View Post

The previous generation of technology is what you describe, only it's called "inorganic". OLED is an advancement/alternative to the previous generation of inorganic LED. So I don't think that would work well....

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, don't you mean OLED is an advancement/alternative to the previous generation of inorganic LCD?

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post #27 of 28 Old 10-27-2013, 07:27 AM
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If they come out with a 4k oled at around 100 inches for under $6k I would get rid of my projector and 118" screen. Until then I will stick with my JVC RS40.
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post #28 of 28 Old 10-27-2013, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by 3dmaven View Post

Well you could just poke holes between the pixels in the display. Pretty sure this would be trivial in the case of large displays where the pixel density is really low (i.e. 1080p at 100" or more).

I will loan you a drill. Knock yourself out. smile.gif

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