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post #91 of 157 Old 09-08-2013, 03:22 PM
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What are your fL at that screen size?
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post #92 of 157 Old 09-08-2013, 03:24 PM
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What are your fL at that screen size?

You can't go off a ftL number with LED projectors because the perceived brightness will always be higher.
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post #93 of 157 Old 09-08-2013, 03:27 PM
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You can't go off a ftL number with LED projectors because the perceived brightness will always be higher.

I know that, I was just curious
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post #94 of 157 Old 09-08-2013, 03:48 PM - Thread Starter
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I know that, I was just curious

Around 10ftL. As you can see in the photo, it has good brightness even with a white ceiling. The side has velvet and I have black area rugs. I ordered velvet drapes for the ceiling and more in the sides, so the perceive brightness should increase. When I had my RS55 and RS48 with my HP screen, so movies I had to increase the light output. I usually watched movies around 12-14ftL, but on some movies that seemed too dark, so I increased it to 16-18ftL. Those same movies look just as bright as 16ftL and sometimes more.
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post #95 of 157 Old 09-08-2013, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

Around 10ftL. As you can see in the photo, it has good brightness even with a white ceiling. The side has velvet and I have black area rugs. I ordered velvet drapes for the ceiling and more in the sides, so the perceive brightness should increase. When I had my RS55 and RS48 with my HP screen, so movies I had to increase the light output. I usually watched movies around 12-14ftL, but on some movies that seemed too dark, so I increased it to 16-18ftL. Those same movies look just as bright as 16ftL and sometimes more.


So it's probably more like 15fl, that's great on a 130 screen
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post #96 of 157 Old 09-08-2013, 05:10 PM
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The definition of the HK effect states that the higher saturation creates the perception of increased light output.

If we change the config of the projector to R709, the measured lumen output should be a true measurement of the lumen output. Then flipping between R709 and the default (saturated) mode should show the perceived difference in brightness to the eye. I'm curious to hear the results if you get a chance to test this.

I'm firing up the Planar 8130 later tonight for a direct A/B against the Sharp 30K. This projector is in brand new condition with only 75 hours on the original lamp/chassis. Now I have more DLP's than LCOS projectors... cool.gif
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post #97 of 157 Old 09-08-2013, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

The definition of the HK effect states that the higher saturation creates the perception of increased light output.

If we change the config of the projector to R709, the measured lumen output should be a true measurement of the lumen output. Then flipping between R709 and the default (saturated) mode should show the perceived difference in brightness to the eye. I'm curious to hear the results if you get a chance to test this.

I'm firing up the Planar 8130 later tonight for a direct A/B against the Sharp 30K. This projector is in brand new condition with only 75 hours on the original lamp/chassis. Now I have more DLP's than LCOS projectors... cool.gif

Sounds like fun! I'll be over shortly:):
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post #98 of 157 Old 09-08-2013, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

The definition of the HK effect states that the higher saturation creates the perception of increased light output.

If we change the config of the projector to R709, the measured lumen output should be a true measurement of the lumen output. Then flipping between R709 and the default (saturated) mode should show the perceived difference in brightness to the eye. I'm curious to hear the results if you get a chance to test this.

I'm firing up the Planar 8130 later tonight for a direct A/B against the Sharp 30K. This projector is in brand new condition with only 75 hours on the original lamp/chassis. Now I have more DLP's than LCOS projectors... cool.gif

I "think" the calibration should have no effect on the HK Effect because the actual colors coming out of the machine are still exactly the same saturation regardless of calibration. Calibrating simply mixes in the other primaries to offset the perceived saturation.

What I mean is it doesn't matter how the projector is calibrated, the Red light coming out of it is always 623nm. If you reduce the saturation via calibration, it simply mixes in some 525nm green, 460nm and blue, but the light is still the same saturation.

This may also be (now that I think about it) the reason for the more solid/saturated appearance of colors on LED (and maybe 3 chip DLP too?) regardless of the calibration.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #99 of 157 Old 09-08-2013, 06:09 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm going to calibrate it soon
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post #100 of 157 Old 09-09-2013, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I'm firing up the Planar 8130 later tonight for a direct A/B against the Sharp 30K. This projector is in brand new condition with only 75 hours on the original lamp/chassis. Now I have more DLP's than LCOS projectors... cool.gif
I'm dreadfully curious about what you thought of the 8130!

I just happened into a sweetheart deal on an low-hour 8130, myself. I'm just waiting for it to get here. The tracking info says Wednesday is the day.
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post #101 of 157 Old 09-09-2013, 09:49 PM
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I'm dreadfully curious about what you thought of the 8130!

I just happened into a sweetheart deal on an low-hour 8130, myself. I'm just waiting for it to get here. The tracking info says Wednesday is the day.

I just calibrated it tonight with a quick grayscale and gamma adjustment. I need to update it to the latest firmware. None of the current gamma adjustments were correct, I ended up using my lumagen mini 3D to tune the gamma. I'm not sure if the latest firmware changes this, I thought I read about these having near perfect gamma curves.

I'm a little surprised how far back I have to mount it vs. my other projectors, i'm looking at nearly 20 feet at the closest on my 142" 16:9 screen.

i'll post some info in the shootout thread once I get a chance to check out some favorite content.
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post #102 of 157 Old 09-10-2013, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I just calibrated it tonight with a quick grayscale and gamma adjustment. I need to update it to the latest firmware. None of the current gamma adjustments were correct, I ended up using my lumagen mini 3D to tune the gamma. I'm not sure if the latest firmware changes this, I thought I read about these having near perfect gamma curves.

I'm a little surprised how far back I have to mount it vs. my other projectors, i'm looking at nearly 20 feet at the closest on my 142" 16:9 screen.

i'll post some info in the shootout thread once I get a chance to check out some favorite content.
The gamma issue is surprising. Were you able to correct it?

I use a much smaller screen (92"), so the throw is less of an issue for me.

I'm looking forward to your impressions/comparisons.
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post #103 of 157 Old 09-10-2013, 11:06 AM
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The gamma curve was easily fixed with the mini 3D calibration, but I was expecting it to be near perfect since these projectors were claimed as being excellent out of the box in regard to calibration.

My firmware is definitely out of date so I'll update it soon to see if it makes any difference (this was not noted in the release notes though)

I am curious to see how Blee0120 makes out with his calibration of the Cine LED, mainly curious about the gamma.
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post #104 of 157 Old 09-10-2013, 11:30 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm ordering my screen today, just finished putting velvet drapes all around. Looks great, still got to get the 3D Theatre Plus. When I get the screen, ill do a calibration
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post #105 of 157 Old 09-11-2013, 09:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Just watched the new Star Trek movie, excellent PQ
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post #106 of 157 Old 09-18-2013, 11:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Im going to try to calibrate the projector tonight, then compare it to the out of the box settings. Watched the Hobbit earlier, just looked terrific with my all velvet room
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post #107 of 157 Old 09-18-2013, 11:18 AM
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Don't hurt yourself. smile.gif

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post #108 of 157 Old 09-18-2013, 11:22 AM
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Im going to try to calibrate the projector tonight, then compare it to the out of the box settings. Watched the Hobbit earlier, just looked terrific with my all velvet room

I'll bet it does - you have a very nice projector !

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post #109 of 157 Old 09-18-2013, 11:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Don't hurt yourself. smile.gif

Ill try to not let the meters tangle me in its cords smile.gif
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post #110 of 157 Old 09-18-2013, 11:25 AM - Thread Starter
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I'll bet it does - you have a very nice projector !

Thanks Craig
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post #111 of 157 Old 09-19-2013, 08:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Grey scale tracked perfectly, but I didn't get around to the CMS yet. Gonna try tonight before the Eagles game.

Seegs, I didn't do a 180, I said no projector under $10,000 throws a better image. I would be a fool to think it will outperform those $20,000+ projectors. The DP M-Vision is a $17,000 projector compared to the RS55 or 56 at under $8000.
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post #112 of 157 Old 09-19-2013, 09:18 AM
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From Dylan's experience with both models, it's good to know the Planar 81xx and 750 clones are basically the same projector minus of course the light source.

The price you paid was literally highway robbery... cool.gif I bought the Planar for 1K, basically a new 'old stock' model with 70 hours. I would be bragging about the PQ for the price we paid. but not sure how I would feel if I was paying full MSRP for either model (current Runco LS3 or CIneLED prices).

For the high price point of the 750 & clones, they really need to add 3D. It seems like they just ripped out the lamp and added the LED's for a whole lot more $$ than the LS-3/LS-5 selling price. Those lamps btw are available from Osram for ~110 brand new.

Please post the default and R709 results when you get a chance. Can you run the full saturation tracking to see how it matches up to the Planar? thanks!!
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post #113 of 157 Old 09-19-2013, 09:54 AM - Thread Starter
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I will, just been busy working a lot extra. I can sacrifice 3D only because its LED. I can't wait to compare a JVC now with my room all velvet with a unity screen. I think the HP may have degraded the image some on the JVCs I had. I won't be sure until I get another one. I know many don't like the JVCs because they will never be the all around champ. Too many worries about dimming, gamma shift, 3D, no bright enough, not good for gaming, not good at motion, sports and HDTV lack, but they do an excellent job with 2D blu rays. For many that is the only function they need for it. I just have to wait 15 more months to get one.

I know when I saw the 1000ES, I was shocked at how well the RS55 matched up against it. Not one person would have left saying the JVC was better because the 1000ES all around was better. However, not one person would rate the JVC under a 9 out of 10 for 2D if they gave the 1000ES a 9.5 out of 10. That is with upscaled 1080p panels, I can just image what JVC can do with native 4K panels. While I'm waiting, I got a great projector to hold me over
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post #114 of 157 Old 09-19-2013, 10:01 AM
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I wouldn't say he got ripped off especially if you take into consideration that he'll never have to spend money on lamps and he's going to save money on power consumption over the next few years. That will greatly reduce the gap between the paid price between the two products mentioned. Contrast performance is also going to be better on his unit as these projectors are using a DC3 or 4 chip.I've never confirmed which one it was.

Zombie is correct, though. These companies made a boatload of profit selling these LED projectors. Check out Cine4homes review of the Planar pd8150 and the Vivitek h9080fd. If you look at the pictures all they really did was attach a Phatlight LED module (which only costs a couple hundred dollars) to the light path and figure out on the software side of things how to make it work as the light source and dynamic iris.
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post #115 of 157 Old 09-19-2013, 10:47 AM
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for the optical path info, he wrote the following:

"The development of optical components brings the first surprise: Contrary to expectations, no completely new path was constructed for the world's first LED projector, but a conventional single-chip light engine used. This is a well-known model: the optical path is almost identical to that of a planar PD8130 / 8150th"

contrast:

"Even if it is a new lighting source, LEDs, so they also can not work miracles. The native contrast is still influenced by the DLP light engine itself, and this is surprising conservative UHP and identical to that of a projector. Accordingly, "normal" behaves the native contrast to approximately 2800:1 contrast he comes in perfectly calibrated color temperature."

I'm curious to measure the other gamut settings on the 81xx to see if there are any that are consistently wider than the R709 setting (with decent saturation tracking).

price he paid = awesome, should have got it myself. 17K MSRP, not so much. smile.gif
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post #116 of 157 Old 09-19-2013, 10:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Also, I never used the Darbee or the Oppo with the RS55. I barely had the RS48 to break it in. But to date with all my gadgets, the M-Vision throws the sharpest and natural pictures. Movies has gotten a look more crisp and clear since I had the 55. I might still get one in a couple of months, but the wise voice in my head says what until next years JVCs
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post #117 of 157 Old 09-19-2013, 11:20 AM
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Zombie, I'm talking dynamic contrast.
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post #118 of 157 Old 09-19-2013, 11:28 AM
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But to date with all my gadgets, the M-Vision throws the sharpest and natural pictures. Movies has gotten a look more crisp and clear since I had the 55.

Nothing is more " crisp and clear " than a good single chip DLP . If only they would put a killer DI in the Digital Projection dVision platform machines !!

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post #119 of 157 Old 09-19-2013, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

For the high price point of the 750 & clones, they really need to add 3D. It seems like they just ripped out the lamp and added the LED's for a whole lot more $$ than the LS-3/LS-5 selling price. Those lamps btw are available from Osram for ~110 brand new.
Can you post or PM me a link to where you're finding the Planar lamps for $110? The best I've seen is around $140 for the bare lamp (of an unspecified brand) and ~ $550 for the lamp and housing. $110 for a bare Osram lamp sounds pretty good to me.

Thanks!
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post #120 of 157 Old 09-19-2013, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

I wouldn't say he got ripped off especially if you take into consideration that he'll never have to spend money on lamps and he's going to save money on power consumption over the next few years. That will greatly reduce the gap between the paid price between the two products mentioned. Contrast performance is also going to be better on his unit as these projectors are using a DC3 or 4 chip.I've never confirmed which one it was.

Zombie is correct, though. These companies made a boatload of profit selling these LED projectors. Check out Cine4homes review of the Planar pd8150 and the Vivitek h9080fd. If you look at the pictures all they really did was attach a Phatlight LED module (which only costs a couple hundred dollars) to the light path and figure out on the software side of things how to make it work as the light source and dynamic iris.

Brilliant. If he buys an all electric car he will never have to spend money on gasoline for it. smile.gif

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