HDMI 2.0 Spec. Released - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 146 Old 09-04-2013, 05:49 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Ron Jones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Florida and West Virginia, USA
Posts: 5,841
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 128 Post(s)
Liked: 171
This was already posted this morning in the IFA 2013 thread but I felt it needed the visibility of its own thread.

Info from HDMI 2.0 press release:
HDMI 2.0, which is backwards compatible with earlier versions of the HDMI specifications, significantly increases bandwidth up to 18Gbps and adds key enhancements to support continuing market requirements for enhancing the consumer video and audio experience. New functionality includes:
4K@50/60, (2160p), which is 4 times the clarity of 1080p/60 video resolution
Up to 32 audio channels for a multi-dimensional immersive audio experience
•Up to 1536kHz audio sample frequency for the highest audio fidelity
•Simultaneous delivery of dual video streams to multiple users on the same screen
•Simultaneous delivery of multi-stream audio to multiple users (up to 4)
•Support for the wide angle theatrical 21:9 video aspect ratio
•Dynamic synchronization of video and audio streams
•CEC extensions provides expanded command and control of consumer electronics devices through a single control point


HDMI 2.0 does not define new cables or new connectors. Current High Speed cables (Category 2 cables) are capable of carrying the increased bandwidth.

Note the part that I have highlighted above that current high speed cable can handle the increased bandwidth of HDMI 2.0. Also of note is support for 4K UHD video at up to 60Hz, up to 32 channels of audio and also support for 'scope' aspect ratio of 21:9.

The new spec. is available for download only to "adopters" that belong to the HDMI organization. I guess we may have to wait for this Friday's (6 Sept.) press conference to find out more about what HDMI 2.0 will support, unless someone with access to the spec. posts the details earlier.

Ron Jones
Blog + Reviews + Articles: projectorreviews.com
Ron Jones is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 146 Old 09-04-2013, 06:03 AM
Senior Member
 
Grifo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Italy
Posts: 296
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post


HDMI 2.0 does not define new cables or new connectors. Current High Speed cables (Category 2 cables) are capable of carrying the increased bandwidth.[/indent]

Note the part that I have highlighted above that current high speed cable can handle the increased bandwidth of HDMI 2.0. Also of note is support for 4K UHD video at up to 60Hz, up to 32 channels of audio and also support for 'scope' aspect ratio of 21:9.

up to you does this mean that products like Sony 1000 or Ada cinema reference machIV could be just firmware upgraded?eek.gif
mmm too good to be believed....
Grifo is offline  
post #3 of 146 Old 09-04-2013, 06:21 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Ron Jones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Florida and West Virginia, USA
Posts: 5,841
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 128 Post(s)
Liked: 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grifo View Post

up to you does this mean that products like Sony 1000 or Ada cinema reference machIV could be just firmware upgraded?eek.gif
mmm too good to be believed....

I would expect the HDMI transmitter/receiver chip(s) will be different for HDMI 2.0, so No, not just a firmware update for the Sony VW1000es or other devices with HDMI 1.3 or 1.4 chips. I suspect that even though HDMI 2.0 can use the existing 'high speed' HDMI cables the max. cable length, for a given cable design, will be less when carrying 4K at 60Hz than what it is for the most demanding 1080p signals (e.g., 1080p/60 with deep color or 1080p 3D)


.

Ron Jones
Blog + Reviews + Articles: projectorreviews.com
Ron Jones is online now  
post #4 of 146 Old 09-04-2013, 06:42 AM
Member
 
Shepardos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 170
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 10
what exactly is the support of 21:9? Does this mean that it will be directly transferred without the need of cropping?

any news of enhanced 3D support for 1080p or 4k?

Cheers
S.
Shepardos is offline  
post #5 of 146 Old 09-04-2013, 07:56 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Ron Jones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Florida and West Virginia, USA
Posts: 5,841
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 128 Post(s)
Liked: 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shepardos View Post

what exactly is the support of 21:9? Does this mean that it will be directly transferred without the need of cropping?

any news of enhanced 3D support for 1080p or 4k?

Cheers
S.

It appears that the video content can be flagged as being in 21:9 'cinemascope' format. This may imply that the full 4K UHD vertical resolution (2160 pixels) is being used and will need to be stretched horizontally to restore the 21:9 aspect ratio for display, or it may just the there to let the display know that the content is in 'scope' format, but it still recorded as letterboxed (as is the case with current blu-rays). Won't know for sure until the details of the HDMI 2.0 spec. are leased to the public. Press conference planned for this Friday should help fill in some of the blanks as far as what HDMI 2.0 actually supports, or doesn't.


.

Ron Jones
Blog + Reviews + Articles: projectorreviews.com
Ron Jones is online now  
post #6 of 146 Old 09-04-2013, 08:25 AM
Advanced Member
 
stef2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Canada
Posts: 536
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked: 32
I am so happy to see new PJ (sony and ?) already have hdmi 2.0 included...with no upgrade needed. I will buy my next PJ within a few months and I will not have to send it back after a couple of months for this upgrade...UPS handling my dear high end digital projector had me worried a lot!...

Stef
stef2 is offline  
post #7 of 146 Old 09-04-2013, 12:45 PM
Senior Member
 
Gradius2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iquique, Chile
Posts: 410
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 14
21:9 is something it should never ever been mentioned (it was by Philips).

Actually the CORRECT one (as correct it won't lead you to more confusion) is 2.37:1

So there you go.

Good to read:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/09/04/hdmi_20_spec_published/

[]s,
Fernando
Gradius2 is offline  
post #8 of 146 Old 09-04-2013, 12:51 PM
AVS Special Member
 
blee0120's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Merillville, IN 46410
Posts: 3,639
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked: 67
Looks like my equipment can stay the same, just a new Oppo
blee0120 is online now  
post #9 of 146 Old 09-04-2013, 12:57 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Ron Jones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Florida and West Virginia, USA
Posts: 5,841
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 128 Post(s)
Liked: 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

Looks like my equipment can stay the same, just a new Oppo

The only existing 'equipment' mentioned that will be compatible with HDMI 2.0 are the high speed cables and the physical HDMI connectors. Existing pieces of electronics with HDMI 1.4 inputs/outputs will not be compatible when you are wanting to use the new features of HDMI 2.0. HDMI 2.0 will be backward compatible with HDMI 1.4 and HDMI 1.3. This means, for example, if a HDMI 2.0 device is connected to a HDMI 1.4 device they well talk to each other and the HDMI 2.0 equipped device will only support the features that can be supported by the HDMI 1.4 equipped device.

.

Ron Jones
Blog + Reviews + Articles: projectorreviews.com
Ron Jones is online now  
post #10 of 146 Old 09-04-2013, 01:01 PM
AVS Special Member
 
blee0120's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Merillville, IN 46410
Posts: 3,639
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked: 67
Well, the Oppo have hdmi inputs, which they should keep. My audio is already going through my Oppo
blee0120 is online now  
post #11 of 146 Old 09-04-2013, 01:58 PM
AVS Special Member
 
hifiaudio2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,634
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 87 Post(s)
Liked: 62
One of the new features is that is says it supports 4:2:0 chroma sampling.

Was this not supported in previous HDMI releases? Is that why would couldn't have what Blu Rays were natively encoded in output to displays?

IF that is the case, this could be a great feature that all projectors/ TVs / Blu Ray players could implement. No more unnecessary conversion to 4:2:2 or 4:4:4.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
hifiaudio2 is online now  
post #12 of 146 Old 09-04-2013, 02:42 PM
AVS Special Member
 
madshi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,463
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Liked: 123
Yes, 4:2:0 support is new, it was never supported by HDMI, or DVI, for that matter. I wish it had been supported since day 1, but it was not. Now they added it, but not to help image quality, but rather to save bandwidth for 4K transport. Still, it's a welcome addition.
madshi is offline  
post #13 of 146 Old 09-04-2013, 03:21 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
mark haflich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: brookeville, maryland, usa
Posts: 19,826
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 384 Post(s)
Liked: 442
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post

Yes, 4:2:0 support is new, it was never supported by HDMI, or DVI, for that matter. I wish it had been supported since day 1, but it was not. Now they added it, but not to help image quality, but rather to save bandwidth for 4K transport. Still, it's a welcome addition.

It will hurt image quality but reduce 4K data requirements.

Mark Haflich

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

call me at: 240 876 2536
mark haflich is online now  
post #14 of 146 Old 09-04-2013, 03:25 PM
AVS Special Member
 
madshi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,463
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Liked: 123
No, it will not hurt image quality, as long as the source material is encoded in 4:2:0, which 99.9% of today's content is. With the single exception of RedRay/Odemax.
madshi is offline  
post #15 of 146 Old 09-04-2013, 03:26 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
mark haflich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: brookeville, maryland, usa
Posts: 19,826
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 384 Post(s)
Liked: 442
Your right with respect to source encoded in 4:2:0. My fear is that 4K souces will now also be encoded at 4:2:0 and that would far less than ideal.

Mark Haflich

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

call me at: 240 876 2536
mark haflich is online now  
post #16 of 146 Old 09-04-2013, 10:03 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Wizziwig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: SoCal, USA
Posts: 1,234
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 154 Post(s)
Liked: 131
The primary source for 4:4:4 60hz native 4K content is going to be gaming via PC or next-gen consoles. Does this mean all future 4K TV gaming will be stuck at 4:2:0 because of HDMI 2.0 limitations? That can't be right.
Wizziwig is offline  
post #17 of 146 Old 09-04-2013, 11:00 PM
AVS Special Member
 
madshi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,463
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Liked: 123
If my math is correct 60Hz 4:4:4 with 8bit RGB should fit into the HDMI 2.0 bandwidth. So it should be technically possible, if they use chips which can handle the full HDMI 2.0 bandwidth. However, it's possible that cheaper devices will use cheaper chips and as such might not support the full bandwidth. Or it could be possible that I made a mistake, after all I did it late last night...
madshi is offline  
post #18 of 146 Old 09-05-2013, 03:41 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
mark haflich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: brookeville, maryland, usa
Posts: 19,826
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 384 Post(s)
Liked: 442
You did what late last night? smile.gif

Mark Haflich

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

call me at: 240 876 2536
mark haflich is online now  
post #19 of 146 Old 09-05-2013, 05:58 AM
AVS Special Member
 
conan48's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Igloo
Posts: 2,180
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked: 162
Is there any official information from the HDMI group that 1080p 60hz 3D is a mandatory format?

Also, how about 4k 3D at 60hz?
conan48 is online now  
post #20 of 146 Old 09-05-2013, 07:36 AM
Member
 
Matrixfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 34
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
While a confirmation would be a relief for us PC gamers, it shouldn't be a problem. 120 Hz 1080p should have in theory the same bandwidth requirement as 30 Hz 4K.
Matrixfan is offline  
post #21 of 146 Old 09-05-2013, 10:33 AM
AVS Special Member
 
blee0120's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Merillville, IN 46410
Posts: 3,639
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked: 67
I know we get to know actually whats going on tomorrow but I saw it said 8 bits. I thought the higher bit of color was going to make more of a difference than the resolution.
blee0120 is online now  
post #22 of 146 Old 09-05-2013, 11:00 PM
Member
 
ICvdo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 77
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Is there 4K 3D support?
ICvdo is offline  
post #23 of 146 Old 09-06-2013, 09:48 AM
AVS Special Member
 
conan48's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Igloo
Posts: 2,180
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked: 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICvdo View Post

Is there 4K 3D support?

Yes, but only up to 30hz.
conan48 is online now  
post #24 of 146 Old 09-06-2013, 07:34 PM
Senior Member
 
Gradius2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iquique, Chile
Posts: 410
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 14
They did on purpose, never offer all if you can do it slowly and in a very profitable way.

[]s,
Fernando
Gradius2 is offline  
post #25 of 146 Old 09-07-2013, 05:05 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
mark haflich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: brookeville, maryland, usa
Posts: 19,826
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 384 Post(s)
Liked: 442
I think the webnair on Thursday will not tell us a lot more that has been publically announced. Only forum members have access to the actual specs which will undoubtedly be revised or clarified etc over time. A forum member has access but not the right to disclose. The big message is no new cables or connectors required and video bandwidth increase to allow 4K 60 and 4K 39 in 3D. A lot of audio enhancement but here we don't care much about them.

Mark Haflich

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

call me at: 240 876 2536
mark haflich is online now  
post #26 of 146 Old 09-07-2013, 06:38 AM
AVS Special Member
 
conan48's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Igloo
Posts: 2,180
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked: 162
It's a sham the 2.0 spec is ALREADY outdated and it's not even out yet. The Hobbit and it's sequels were shot at 4k 48hz in 3D, and Avatar is most likely gonna be shot at 4K 60hz 3D (not confirmed yet) yeah thats only a few movies right now, but I wouldn't be surprised if more 3D films are shot at 4k 48hz or 60hz. While you lose some of the "film" look with 48hz, the 3D fluidity is stunning with the higher refresh rate. Now the wait begins for HDMI 3.0. LOL
conan48 is online now  
post #27 of 146 Old 09-07-2013, 07:01 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
mark haflich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: brookeville, maryland, usa
Posts: 19,826
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 384 Post(s)
Liked: 442
The specification is a political action and does not represent what is technically achievable. I guess one will have to buy a commercial theater machine and arrange for DCI content, which can be done, if one wants to get what a commercial state of the art theater can do. Of course you want get the higher contrast and low black levels a commercial theater environment can't support. But HDMI 2.0 is mostly for consumers and their toys. Conan. You and I are also outdated in many ways. smile.gif

Mark Haflich

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

call me at: 240 876 2536
mark haflich is online now  
post #28 of 146 Old 09-07-2013, 07:33 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Ron Jones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Florida and West Virginia, USA
Posts: 5,841
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 128 Post(s)
Liked: 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

It's a sham the 2.0 spec is ALREADY outdated and it's not even out yet. The Hobbit and it's sequels were shot at 4k 48hz in 3D, and Avatar is most likely gonna be shot at 4K 60hz 3D (not confirmed yet) yeah thats only a few movies right now, but I wouldn't be surprised if more 3D films are shot at 4k 48hz or 60hz. While you lose some of the "film" look with 48hz, the 3D fluidity is stunning with the higher refresh rate. Now the wait begins for HDMI 3.0. LOL

It's my understanding that the Hobbit, when shown in theaters at high frame rate (i.e., 48 fps), was only shown with 2K resolution for the 3D presentation. It was said that limitation was due to the interface (non HDMI) used on the commercial digital cinema projectors. I do wonder if HDMI 2.0 will at least support 1080p 3D signals at up to 60Hz even if 4K UHD 3D signals are limited to 30Hz. Also for the 4K signals, there is still the question of what bit depths will be supported at the various supported refresh rates (i.e., up to 60Hz). I would like to hear from anyone attending IFA that sat in on the HDMI 2.0 press conference that was held at noon on Friday. Perhaps they provided more info on HDMI 2.0's capabilities beyond those mentioned in their brief press release. The HDMI organization will be at CEDIA Expo, so perhaps they will be willing to answer some more detailed questions there.

Ron Jones
Blog + Reviews + Articles: projectorreviews.com
Ron Jones is online now  
post #29 of 146 Old 09-07-2013, 08:08 AM
AVS Special Member
 
coolscan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,794
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post

It's my understanding that the Hobbit, when shown in theaters at high frame rate (i.e., 48 fps), was only shown with 2K resolution for the 3D presentation. It was said that limitation was due to the interface (non HDMI) used on the commercial digital cinema projectors.
It was only shown in 2K (in all formats) because they haven't made a 4K version yet.
But if they do make a HFR 4K~3D version they can't release it for consumers because it can't be played back through HDMI.
Quote:
I do wonder if HDMI 2.0 will at least support 1080p 3D signals at up to 60Hz even if 4K UHD 3D signals are limited to 30Hz. Also for the 4K signals, there is still the question of what bit depths will be supported at the various supported refresh rates (i.e., up to 60Hz). I would like to hear from anyone attending IFA that sat in on the HDMI 2.0 press conference that was held at noon on Friday. Perhaps they provided more info on HDMI 2.0's capabilities beyond those mentioned in their brief press release. The HDMI organization will be at CEDIA Expo, so perhaps they will be willing to answer some more detailed questions there.
I believe there is nothing more exciting hidden in the specs. They could as well called this HDMI 1.5 for the little improvements they have made over vs.1.4.

Best thing to ask if somebody encounters anybody from the HDMI forum is to ask why the heck they didn't include 120fps 4K.
That would have opened up some incentives for both display and content creators to release some more inventive stuff in the next few years.
coolscan is offline  
post #30 of 146 Old 09-07-2013, 01:16 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
mark haflich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: brookeville, maryland, usa
Posts: 19,826
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 384 Post(s)
Liked: 442
Its all done by votes. Whatever is not there is mostly likely because not enough forum members would vote for it. Some of it MIGHT require a new cable I SUPPOSE and not many members wanted to go there.

Mark Haflich

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

call me at: 240 876 2536
mark haflich is online now  
Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

Tags
Sony Vpl Vw1000es Projector
Gear in this thread

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off