Sony VPL-VW500ES - 4k Projector - 2013 - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 1083 Old 09-15-2013, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

Of course the other side of it is, it's really only very fine detail that would get obscured so you're really talking about fine differences.

But what really gets me, when I see these "scaling doesn't add detail!" chants is, it really seems to be a case of not seeing the forest for the trees. I mean take a step back, who here (especially those focusing on scaling not adding detail) would watch a DVD on a 480p projector instead of a 1080p one at the same screen size? Anyone? I know I wouldn't.

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post #362 of 1083 Old 09-15-2013, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by VGI View Post

I am confused - How big are you going that you would need two 1000ES's stacked with thousands of Lumens ?

somewhere between 200" and 210" wide scope screen... probably Seymour en4k. I feel like the size of the screen I am after really would benefit from 4k res.

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^^^ Let me guess. Standard contractor method of operation it seems these days....... gets your big deposit and starts framing and working for a week or so. Then come long periods of time where you don't see him. Because he is repeating the same procedure with other homeowners to keep the jobs lined up? Hasn't happened to me fortunately but I see evidence of it all around my neighborhood. mad.gif

Yeah, deposit...foundation,frame, sheath, month off. They need money: siding, windows and roof, then you guessed it...month off. Same thing all the way through. We are to the point of drywall now which makes it really frustrating because you can see it all and it's so close.
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post #363 of 1083 Old 09-15-2013, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

somewhere between 200" and 210" wide scope screen... probably Seymour en4k. I feel like the size of the screen I am after really would benefit from 4k res.
Yeah, deposit...foundation,frame, sheath, month off. They need money: siding, windows and roof, then you guessed it...month off. Same thing all the way through. We are to the point of drywall now which makes it really frustrating because you can see it all and it's so close.

For that size screen, why not get the Center Stage XD material with higher gain. You won't be sitting close enough to see the weave anyways. Still you would need about 2500 lumens. I think for the money are you going to spend, might be better to wait for a high lumen DLP
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post #364 of 1083 Old 09-15-2013, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post

I am now seriously thinking of getting the vw500 instead of the hw55. Basically going 4k... would it be a better idea to get the Centerstage XD (which has a 1.2 gain, but higher grain), vs the EN4K screen which has a 1.0 gain but finer weave... both can support 4k from 10 feet away... I want my screen to be about 150 inch diagonal... it might be too big and i might lose a lot of light even with the vw500 for 3d...


Sorry Coolgeek, but the EN4K do not have anything close to a 1.0 gain, it is more like 0.8 gain.

I did test it against Clearpix 2 ( 0.95 gain ) and studiotek 130 ( 1.3 gain ) and it was visible darkere then the CP2 ( thats was one of the primary reasons that I didnt buy that, because I was afraid it would be to dark - and I never regret that ) dont get me wrong, the EN4K was a very nice materiel ( actully the weave is finere and more invisible then the CP2 ) , but if you plan to use it for a 150" dia screen and like it pleasant bright ( say 16 - 20 Fl ) or /and for 3D - IMO then the EN4K is to low in gain ( even my 0.95 gain screen WHO is 110" wide - smaller then yours - is to dark for a bright 3D experience ( a sunny day, looks more like a cloudy day - know what I mean ? smile.gif ) - its okay, but it is first really fun to Watch, when I use a high gain screen ( 2.8 gain, but in my setup, probely more about 1.8 ).

And then when the lamps get older wink.gif, you really will have problems, especially with 3D

BTW. I dont think the 500ES will be brighter then the HW50/55ES ( have same spec, but I dont think the 500ES has the lamp pulsing technic )
I dont know the Centerstage XD ( and its real gain ) , but if the weave is fine from your distance and the gain 30 -40 % higher then the EN4K, I would go with that and if your are a 3D nerd - I would find a screen with a lot higher gain then both of them.

dj
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post #365 of 1083 Old 09-15-2013, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

For that size screen, why not get the Center Stage XD material with higher gain. You won't be sitting close enough to see the weave anyways. Still you would need about 2500 lumens. I think for the money are you going to spend, might be better to wait for a high lumen DLP

Yeah, but I can't help but feel that the en4k's finer weave would help with a more pleasing picture, with a capable pj, for the size. The HD5 is a 5k lumen 3 chip dlp powerhouse, but I can't help but wonder if my 14, 21.5 and 29ft viewing distances(approx.) that pixel structure could become visible due to screen size....hence the 4k thought
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post #366 of 1083 Old 09-15-2013, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

Yeah, but I can't help but feel that the en4k's finer weave would help with a more pleasing picture, with a capable pj, for the size. The HD5 is a 5k lumen 3 chip dlp powerhouse, but I can't help but wonder if my 14, 21.5 and 29ft viewing distances(approx.) that pixel structure could become visible due to screen size....hence the 4k thought

When you said 200in+ wide screen, I assumed you would be at least 16-17ft away. 14ft from from a 200in wide screen is extremely close for me at least
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post #367 of 1083 Old 09-15-2013, 12:47 PM
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I'm hoping I can use this projector on a 160" wide CenterStage XD 2.37 screen. Hopefully It will be bright enough.
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post #368 of 1083 Old 09-15-2013, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

somewhere between 200" and 210" wide scope screen... probably Seymour en4k. I feel like the size of the screen I am after really would benefit from 4k res.
Yeah, deposit...foundation,frame, sheath, month off. They need money: siding, windows and roof, then you guessed it...month off. Same thing all the way through. We are to the point of drywall now which makes it really frustrating because you can see it all and it's so close.



ChopShop1


You need one of these :Sony SRX-R515P (and it will not be much more expensive then 2 x 1000ES , and have much more light )



dj
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post #369 of 1083 Old 09-15-2013, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

When you said 200in+ wide screen, I assumed you would be at least 16-17ft away. 14ft from from a 200in wide screen is extremely close for me at least

Yeah, second row is the money section and third should still be great...the first row will mainly be used when all 15 seats are filled and the kids want the front section of the imax section feel.

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Originally Posted by d.j. View Post

ChopShop1


You need one of these :Sony SRX-R515P (and it will not be much more expensive then 2 x 1000ES , and have much more light )


dj

I looked at those a while back and don't remember why, but a few folks warned me away from them...??
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post #370 of 1083 Old 09-15-2013, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by d.j. View Post

Sorry Coolgeek, but the EN4K do not have anything close to a 1.0 gain, it is more like 0.8 gain.

I did test it against Clearpix 2 ( 0.95 gain ) and studiotek 130 ( 1.3 gain ) and it was visible darkere then the CP2 ( thats was one of the primary reasons that I didnt buy that, because I was afraid it would be to dark - and I never regret that ) dont get me wrong, the EN4K was a very nice materiel ( actully the weave is finere and more invisible then the CP2 ) , but if you plan to use it for a 150" dia screen and like it pleasant bright ( say 16 - 20 Fl ) or /and for 3D - IMO then the EN4K is to low in gain ( even my 0.95 gain screen WHO is 110" wide - smaller then yours - is to dark for a bright 3D experience ( a sunny day, looks more like a cloudy day - know what I mean ? smile.gif ) - its okay, but it is first really fun to Watch, when I use a high gain screen ( 2.8 gain, but in my setup, probely more about 1.8 ).

And then when the lamps get older wink.gif, you really will have problems, especially with 3D

BTW. I dont think the 500ES will be brighter then the HW50/55ES ( have same spec, but I dont think the 500ES has the lamp pulsing technic )
I dont know the Centerstage XD ( and its real gain ) , but if the weave is fine from your distance and the gain 30 -40 % higher then the EN4K, I would go with that and if your are a 3D nerd - I would find a screen with a lot higher gain then both of them.

dj

DJ, thanks for the input... that's what I was afraid off... the low gain of the EN4K... I wasn't aware it was only 0.8 gain... that's 40% lower than the CenterStage... I am placing all my speakers behind the screen so that I'll need an AT screen and the XD seems like a good choice.

If the 'actual' gain of the EN4K is .2 lower than advertised, then likely the XD is too.. so it would be around 1.0 gain... with the 1500 lumens calibrated (from early reports of the vw500es), I should still be ok (considering it should have greater contrast than the 55hw.
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post #371 of 1083 Old 09-15-2013, 02:56 PM
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So, the slowest contractor in the world, who has been building our new home for the last 16months mad.gif, Has given me more and more time to make HT decisions. I have gone back and forth on PJs so many times and have yet to pull the trigger. I know stacking presents some difficulties, but have seen more folks discussing it here lately. How likely would it be to successfully stack dual vw600es', or even 1000s for that matter?? It's basically the only way I'd be able to afford 4k on the screen size I want. I have been very close to buying a display development unit, and still may, but with the cost of the unit, it's frustrating that I would have 0 4k ability.

I totally get this... My contractor overbills me, does a poor job, and then his workers ran away halfway thru, leaving my project hanging until i was able to get a different one to continue with the job... it's now 1 year plus since I started my house construction... and I started out wanting to get the HW 30, and since then Sony has released 2 new generations of projectors, ie, the hw50, and then now the hw55... and NOW, even the VW500 (which is my top contender)... so, I guess the delay was actually a blessing in disguise as I might just be able to squeeze in a 4K projector now... hopefully the house would be ready by Jan, next year...
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post #372 of 1083 Old 09-15-2013, 03:01 PM
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Dodgy contractors aside, let us get back to the topic of the thread.

The 500ES (and 1000ES) is being sold as a 4K projector, but could a change to the 4k spec - which is not fully confirmed yet - render the model useless for 4K?
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post #373 of 1083 Old 09-15-2013, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

I know stacking presents some difficulties, but have seen more folks discussing it here lately. How likely would it be to successfully stack dual vw600es', or even 1000s for that matter?? It's basically the only way I'd be able to afford 4k on the screen size I want.

DLP's with lens shift are the best option for stacking, as LCOS have convergence drift. Convergence drift is no big deal, but if it happens to drift the opposite direction on both projectors, then it can impact the image quite negatively. You can use the convergence adjustment to fix it, but you might find it moving around a lot.

Dual stacking NON-DLP's is partly luck, though I think you can probably maintain most of the sharpness by dual stacking a 4k projector like the vw1000es, but it'll be a pain over time as you'll likely have to reset it a few times. You can ask someone in here that has tried it, if anyone has. Most people dual stack DLP's really, I think a few did Dual stack the JVC's, doubt anyone dual stacked a vw1000es?


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post #374 of 1083 Old 09-15-2013, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

Yeah, second row is the money section and third should still be great...the first row will mainly be used when all 15 seats are filled and the kids want the front section of the imax section feel.
I looked at those a while back and don't remember why, but a few folks warned me away from them...??

Maybe it because it is mainly for the professional market ? ( and its big, heavy = W546 x H570 x D1015 / 150kg and probely need good cooling !? have it in a separate room ! ), but it has 2x normal HDMI input, excellent contrast, lots of Lamps ( 6 ! ) / light ( http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-projectors/cat-digitalcinema/product-SRX-R515P/ ) and really good 3D ( passive fullHD on both eyes ) and Support 2K 3D HFR (48P/60P) as standard.

Offcause its expensive, but if you want to go that big in screen size and have light in the reserve, its probely cheaper than most other solutions that can meet the needs fully

If I was you, I would go to the 20.000+ forum ( if your not allready there redface.gif ) , there have the guy´s more experience with these kinds of projectors ( I think Wolfgang have seen it !? )

dj


Edit, found it, see : http://www.avsforum.com/t/1469088/sony-srx-r515p-4k-dci-projector
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post #375 of 1083 Old 09-15-2013, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by d.j. View Post

Maybe it because it is mainly for the professional market ? ( and its big, heavy = W546 x H570 x D1015 / 150kg and probely need good cooling !? have it in a separate room ! ), but it has 2x normal HDMI input, excellent contrast, lots of Lamps ( 6 ! ) / light ( http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-projectors/cat-digitalcinema/product-SRX-R515P/ ) and really good 3D ( passive fullHD on both eyes ) and Support 2K 3D HFR (48P/60P) as standard.

Offcause its expensive, but if you want to go that big in screen size and have light in the reserve, its probely cheaper than most other solutions that can meet the needs fully

If I was you, I would go to the 20.000+ forum ( if your not allready there redface.gif ) , there have the guy´s more experience with these kinds of projectors ( I think Wolfgang have seen it !? )

dj


Edit, found it, see : http://www.avsforum.com/t/1469088/sony-srx-r515p-4k-dci-projector

The UHE forum was where I heard about it first, but the details in that post about the 3d change, etc were deff part of the turn off. I would love to just grab a 4k pro machine, but contrast, blacks and ease of operation really make me nervous
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post #376 of 1083 Old 09-15-2013, 05:01 PM
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It is a DCI compliant machine and comes with a DCI server. This means you can feed it movie theater feeds which are quite obtainable now for reasonable feeds. I know of a sony 515 that was just recently installed in a friends theater. The installation and hook up were simple and it works like a star. White glove installation by Sony.

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post #377 of 1083 Old 09-15-2013, 05:18 PM
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post #378 of 1083 Old 09-15-2013, 05:35 PM
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I'm sure we won't get an "official" announcement until CEDIA.

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post #379 of 1083 Old 09-15-2013, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

The UHE forum was where I heard about it first, but the details in that post about the 3d change, etc were deff part of the turn off. I would love to just grab a 4k pro machine, but contrast, blacks and ease of operation really make me nervous

This might be better taken to another thread, but depending on how long you've got until you need a projector (or how long you're willing to wait), you might want to wait for a 4K DLP. Current rumor is they should start appearing next year, and if we see the typical progression, the first machines out will be the relatively big iron 3-chippers.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

This might be better taken to another thread, but depending on how long you've got until you need a projector (or how long you're willing to wait), you might want to wait for a 4K DLP. Current rumor is they should start appearing next year, and if we see the typical progression, the first machines out will be the relatively big iron 3-chippers.

Thanks Stanger, back to your regularly scheduled program...thanks for the answers guys
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post #381 of 1083 Old 09-16-2013, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

This might be better taken to another thread, but depending on how long you've got until you need a projector (or how long you're willing to wait), you might want to wait for a 4K DLP. Current rumor is they should start appearing next year, and if we see the typical progression, the first machines out will be the relatively big iron 3-chippers.

How accurate is this 4K DLP rumer and who is going to produce it ? I'm assuming the lumens will increase big time, like the model below ?

3 Chip is already here, in 1080P that is

http://www.digitalprojection.com/ProjectorDetail/tabid/87/ProjectorId/288/MarketTypeId/11/Default.aspx
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post #382 of 1083 Old 09-16-2013, 06:42 AM
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How accurate is this 4K DLP rumer and who is going to produce it ? I'm assuming the lumens will increase big time, like the model below ?

3 Chip is already here, in 1080P that is

http://www.digitalprojection.com/ProjectorDetail/tabid/87/ProjectorId/288/MarketTypeId/11/Default.aspx

If you got 50 000+ dollars maybe you'll get a 4k DLP in 2 years. First, even the Dark Chip 4 which has been out for many years is still to expensive for manufacturers to use in the middle class projectors. Also, a DLP consists of millions of tiny mirrors that produce on/off state. Can you imagine how much a chip would cost that needed 4x the mirrors? The chip would have to to very large and with size DLP price goes sky high. Don't think 4k DLP will be ready for consumers for many years. Maybe in the ultra high end Sim 2, Runco, etc.
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post #383 of 1083 Old 09-16-2013, 06:45 AM
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^^^ Let me guess. Standard contractor method of operation it seems these days....... gets your big deposit and starts framing and working for a week or so. Then come long periods of time where you don't see him. Because he is repeating the same procedure with other homeowners to keep the jobs lined up? Hasn't happened to me fortunately but I see evidence of it all around my neighborhood. mad.gif

Yep, happened to me. Guy started off great then had to pester him to even show up and eventually he scammed enough people and went bankrupt . I only use people through reference or people I research. This **** is getting worse and worse now a days.
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post #384 of 1083 Old 09-16-2013, 06:53 AM
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The VPL-VW600ES which is what its going to be called in the US is available for dealers to pre order. We already pre ordered 15 pieces in anticipation of our current customers with older machines like VW200's etc. We told a few dozen of our local customers about a 15K retail 4K projector solution and we got a tremendous response. Granted we are in a affluent area in NJ and our customer base is generally higher end. It didn't scare our customers away. 4K is coming on strong and we were surprised to see how many non technical clients such as Doctors and lawyers who actually knew about it. I think Best Buy has done a great marketing job of 4K and telling the average consumer about what 4K is and certainly has them thinking about buying into this new technology. Netflix announcing their 4K streaming solution along with Sony's new Server solution is making leaps and bounds in software.

As we all know 15K retail is retail and what a dealer does for his customers is always something a little different. Just look at the 1000ES.. I would love to know how many people on this Thread who own a 1000ES paid more than 20K ? Bottom line is, we have seen the 600ES and its awesome. We can argue about the Lens Design and Bulb technology all day but at the end, its all about picture. The world of Video as we all know gets better and cheaper every year and Sony has done a great job of bringing us better and better solutions each year.

I just popped open the 55W900 TV to play with a few weeks ago and for a 2K TV, I am blown out of the water. Sony has really got their SH^&%T together in the last few years with video quality and the new 4K panels without the side speakers that are coming out in a few weeks are even better than the ones with the side Speakers from 4 months ago. This high speed evolution of Video is great and they are keeping us on our feet. These new sets apparently come with HDMI 2.0 and the cost of them is so much lower than the models from 4 months back. They put Samsung in a very awkward situation and forced Samsung to drop their prices almost overnight of Samsung releasing their 4K's. Sony wants to be the leader in Video once again and I think they are on their way.

Craig

I find this post very interesting, since All Sony products are ordered from Tech Data and this projector is not even listed on their site yet and will not be listed on their site for ordering until CEDIA. This is per information confirmed by Sony as of a few minutes ago.

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post #385 of 1083 Old 09-16-2013, 07:30 AM
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I find this post very interesting, since All Sony products are ordered from Tech Data and this projector is not even listed on their site yet and will not be listed on their site for ordering until CEDIA. This is per information confirmed by Sony as of a few minutes ago.

Mike,
is it the model # or the fact he says he has a unit and is viewing the same? ** Edit ** I'm sorry, he said "we have seen the 600ES and it is awesome."
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post #386 of 1083 Old 09-16-2013, 07:38 AM
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How accurate is this 4K DLP rumer and who is going to produce it ? I'm assuming the lumens will increase big time, like the model below ?

The info was posted here, reportedly from a DLP manufacturer. Timing there seems about right for product announcements at CEDIA 2014 (for a 2015 launch).

And yeah, no doubt they'll be expensive, but for ChopShop1 that seems like it's a possibility at least.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #387 of 1083 Old 09-16-2013, 07:56 AM
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I'm a skeptic: 2K up scaled to 4K almost as good as 4K....no darn way!

4K :



2K:



2K Upscaled to 4K:




I say bring on true 4K source!!

But why does the 2K image look better on my 2K monitor? wink.gif

I love looking at all of these gorgeous 4K images on my crappy 2K monitor, LOL!

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post #388 of 1083 Old 09-16-2013, 07:59 AM
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Pre-ordered has no meaning with Sony and their distributor except sometimes the Sony reps will asked dealers what is their expectation as to the number they will be initially ordering. You can't pre-order it. There is a price but I think it is somewhat volatile and will be set at Cedia.

No let's try a hypothetical. A dealer is small and operates out of his house. Just a hypothetical. How much credit would the Sony distributor advance him? Enough to order 100 sets? probably not. 50? 25? 15? 10? 5? Just thinking out loud. Now a small dealer starts selling a lot of sets, and Sony says .WTF is going on. And let's say a dealer posts and implies a discount of over 20% based on a year when Sony's SURE pricing policy was slacked a bit. This year, Sony will cut dealers off that violate the sure rules and expect all dealer to be shopped.

Thank God we don't have any guy like that posting here.

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post #389 of 1083 Old 09-16-2013, 08:42 AM
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Mike,
is it the model # or the fact he says he has a unit and is viewing the same? ** Edit ** I'm sorry, he said "we have seen the 600ES and it is awesome."

Should have pictures from his trip to Germany to see a 500ES, but I don't believe he went to Germany.

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post #390 of 1083 Old 09-16-2013, 09:00 AM
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He is trolling for business. These are probably desperate times for him as times now are for many dealers and he is hoping to sell a bundle of the 500ES. He is doing his best to create demand and to say he sells them and to call him and he discounts. He is really adding nothing to the discussion but is pretending that he has something to add. His posts are self promotional. That doesn't make him bad guy, just somebody trying to get a free ad out there but I think he fails to recognize the sophistication and knowledge that most posters here have. Take a look at his website and the pictures of his installs. You can hire him to supervise your err inferior installers. While there are dealers on AV Science forum, most tend to answer questions and provide knowledge. Most posts are other than salesmanship.

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