Does anyone know if the new projectors from Sony display 3D using 144Hz processing (72Hz per eye) to avoid the flicker that 48Hz per eye creates?
I can't enjoy 3D on my HW50ES due to the 48Hz flicker.
Furthermore, once they implement panels capable of switching at 144Hz, they could filter this mode down to Dark Frame Insertion (DFI). This would essentially insert black frames with a frequency of 72Hz, which is much more palatable than the 48Hz flicker with the DFI implementation in the HW50ES.
Since the HW50ES panels are limited to 120Hz (confirmed by Sony engineers), they best they can do for both 3D & DFI is 96Hz processing with 24p content... this leads to the offensive 48Hz flicker.
Would love to know if they're achieving 144Hz with the new panels... but naturally I can't find any actual useful specifications amongst all the marketing speak. 1 million gazillion:1 dynamic contrast -- *sigh*. A shame, b/c Sony SXRD static image contrast is quite good (albeit not JVC levels, of course).
I just wonder if any of those modes drive the panels at 144Hz or faster. Else we're still stuck with 48Hz flicker in 3D & using DFI. Anyone sensitive to flicker seen 3D or DFI on the new Sony projectors?
The 1000ES was reviewed well in terms of 3D performance with NO issues with flickering. The 600ES uses the same SXRD panels as the 1000ES. This should translate into a flicker free 3D exerience even if they aren't refreshing at 144hz. DLP has only just started to use triple flash technology and even before then it didn't have a flicker issue so I don't think refresh rate is the sole determining factor when it comes to 3D flicker issues.
There is a long thread on this projector. It is not suitable for HT use though the light source could be used in a HT machine someday. It really isn't considered by anybody except sony as a true laser machine. Its more akin to a laser pointer being used to ignite a consumable spinning phosphor wheel which produces the light. Go read the thread.
At least they will make a profit on the actual number they sell. In return for market domination, they would go out of business, and their competitors would dominate by default.
It will be brighter. I've read all the "pro" reviews on the VW1000 and most of them said that the 3D was VERY good. They also mentioned it was bright enough and more so then the JVC. I think one review said it wasn't bright enough for his tastes. I think it really depends on how big your screen is.
Also, the HW50 was the exception with lamp pulsing. No other projector used lamp pulsing beforehand and I can attest that it is brighter then most 3D projectors I've owned.
We can't be sure that the VW500 isn't using lamp pulsing. This is coming from 1 sony rep who very well might not even know jack ****. I have to have something confirmed by at least 3 people before I might consider believing it
Anyhow, just grab a chepo benq or Acer DLP beamer and use that strictly for 3D. Whats another 1000 when I'm already spending almost 10 000. DLP is the shiznits for 3D.
Quote:
Originally Posted by roxiedog13 /t/1489090/sony-vpl-vw500es-4k-projector-2013/540#post_23791743
Has anyone figured out if the new VPL-600ES has less brightness in 3D over the 50ES because it lacks the lamp pulsing? I have the 50ES now but would be disappointed to loose any brightness.
Both are rated 1700Lumens and the 50ES is already on the dim side even on my SI 4K Solar 16:9 92" diagonal 1.3 gain.
Hard to give up anything with this kind of price jump.
Something does not sound right. With your projector and screen, you would be getting around 19 FL in 3D. That is far from dim. How much ambient light do you have in your room?
I talked to my dealer who recently spoke with his Sony rep and while there is no exact news of when 4K service will be available in Canada, they are working on it. Again, it's the damn CRTC that controls all content that comes into Canada that won't allow the server to work. They will need to release a Canadian version of the FMP X1 with some Canadian content. Europe most likely faces the same issues with content being restricted.
At least we will get Trailer Park Boys, Kenny vs. Spenny, and other great Canadian shows in 4k the they won't get in the US
Art posted his impressions of the vw600es at the projectorreviews blog. He had it in his house for several hours and got to see a lot more than at Celia. He states that he loved the pic quality, and 3d. The main difference between the it and the vw1000 are black levels. But apparently they are as good or better than the vw95, and that's with 1700 lumens. He states that the 4k pic quality is mind blowing and he would rather have it than the new jvc projectors, despite the black level advantage. Good read.
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitetrash66 /t/1489090/sony-vpl-vw500es-4k-projector-2013/540#post_23793112
Art posted his impressions of the vw600es at the projectorreviews blog. He had it in his house for several hours and got to see a lot more than at Celia. He states that he loved the pic quality, and 3d. The main difference between the it and the vw1000 are black levels. But apparently they are as good or better than the vw95, and that's with 1700 lumens. He states that the 4k pic quality is mind blowing and he would rather have it than the new jvc projectors, despite the black level advantage. Good read.
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitetrash66 /t/1489090/sony-vpl-vw500es-4k-projector-2013/540#post_23793112
Art posted his impressions of the vw600es at the projectorreviews blog. He had it in his house for several hours and got to see a lot more than at Celia. He states that he loved the pic quality, and 3d. The main difference between the it and the vw1000 are black levels. But apparently they are as good or better than the vw95, and that's with 1700 lumens. He states that the 4k pic quality is mind blowing and he would rather have it than the new jvc projectors, despite the black level advantage. Good read.
This projector was a standout to my eyes at Cedia and good to see some confirmation from someone who has spent some quality time with one that all of us were not crazy who were impressed.
I assume that Carnival in Rio that Art mentions is the same 4k they were showing at Cedia and it looked insanely good!
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 /t/1489090/sony-vpl-vw500es-4k-projector-2013/540#post_23792935
Something does not sound right. With your projector and screen, you would be getting around 19 FL in 3D. That is far from dim. How much ambient light do you have in your room?
Bat cave, walls are deep flat maroon, the ceiling is black. No outside light at all. PJ is 13.5 feet from the screen mounted in line with the top of the frame. Screen is a Screen Innovations
Solar 4K 1.3 gain ( actual measured is 1.37). Screen is CIH 120" diagonal for 2:35 and 95: for 16:9 .
In 3 D mode I run bright cinema mode, Cinema 1, RC off, gamma 9, sharpness min, . Glasses are on max brightness or level 3 of 4 cannot remember now. This is all I can recall, I can
fill in the settings not mentioned later if you feel I may have something amiss.
Watched Hugo in 3D late night and to be honest it was incredible. Could be a little brighter, and I did notice ghosting from time to time. Have never noticed the flicker that others have mentioned.
PQ was awsome, again aside from the feeling it was a little dim.
I'm just saying I would not want to loose brightness if I step up to the 600ES. Lot of money to loose out in any aspect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 /t/1489090/sony-vpl-vw500es-4k-projector-2013/550_50#post_23792448
The 1000ES was reviewed well in terms of 3D performance with NO issues with flickering. The 600ES uses the same SXRD panels as the 1000ES. This should translate into a flicker free 3D exerience even if they aren't refreshing at 144hz. DLP has only just started to use triple flash technology and even before then it didn't have a flicker issue so I don't think refresh rate is the sole determining factor when it comes to 3D flicker issues.
I see flicker in 3d on the Sony 1000 and my wife refused to watch 3D on it because of flicker. Its the only part of 3D she complained about. And she never notices or comments on anything related to our audio or video.
" Ok, those higher end JVC projectors at $8,000 and $12,000 will easily beat this Sony at black levels, but I’d certainly rather give up the difference in black levels (since the Sony’s damn good at them anyway) in exchange for 4K. I have no doubts, I’d definitely spring the extra for the Sony were I able."
"Got to watch a chunk of Ultimate Wave Tahiti. Think good 3D looks great now? Can’t wait until I’m watching 3D in true 4K."
"Is Sony’s VPL-VW600ES worth $15K? You all know the drill, it’s time vs. money. 10 years ago most 720p projectors sold for at least $4000. Today, Optoma has half a dozen under $600. So, sure, if you are in no hurry, or the money is tight, wait. Certainly in 3 years there will be 4K projectors for well under $5000, or at least one would expect… (The world seems to think 8K will be the standard by 2020, in fact, in one discussion I had at the show, it was suggested that Broadcast TV (and maybe satellite/cable) will skip true 4K and go right to 8K content, but out 6-7 years." Art!
Interesting 8K would be surreal, then you can feel the salt on your lips
I have the same setup, 1000ES at minimum throw, calibrated, and it is acceptable to me, even with many hours on the bulb. Might not be bright enough to others. Definitely measures below acceptable on paper...
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 /t/1489090/sony-vpl-vw500es-4k-projector-2013/540#post_23792012
Its also probably a case where 4k projector owners tend to be pushing it on larger screens, so this drastic reduction in output is magnified. I would estimate that 3d lumens are less than 10% of 2d lumens on the Sony 1000.
No way this is the case in my environment. Since my measured lumens in 2D was 12fL at least a couple hundred hours ago, no way 3D is one tenth of that--I would guess that would be unwatchable.
Watch Star Trek: ID recently in 3D and it was fine for me. Could be brighter, of course.
And I have good evidence that brightness is different between samples. My 2nd projector was brighter than this one (my 3rd). Lots of variables as to why, but it was significantly brighter.
Yeah must be. I measured about 9.8 ftL before I sold mine in 2D. Do you run with contrast at max or at 88 (common point to avoid clipping 255 white with auto iris off)? My measurement was with contrast at 88.
The measurement may be below the standard of 12 - 14 ft lamberts, but that does not make it unacceptable. to your eyes, it would only look a very very small amount less bright. Acceptable is judgment made by the viewer and not any measurement against a standard.
Why buy the 600ES at street bundled with the server and tablet when you can for just a relatively small amount more get a checked out 1000ES and get it upgraded to a 1100ES near the same time the 600ES starts shipping? B stocks of the 1000ES won't last long.
This may explain why Sony has given Canada And Europe different model #s and...pricing. At this point, they may not be able to say with certainty the server will work outside the good 'ol us of A.
Wonder if a VPN or something similar could work (and a valid shipping addy)...for canucks along the 49th parallel
Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48 /t/1489090/sony-vpl-vw500es-4k-projector-2013/540#post_23792997
I talked to my dealer who recently spoke with his Sony rep and while there is no exact news of when 4K service will be available in Canada, they are working on it. Again, it's the damn CRTC that controls all content that comes into Canada that won't allow the server to work. They will need to release a Canadian version of the FMP X1 with some Canadian content. Europe most likely faces the same issues with content being restricted.
At least we will get Trailer Park Boys, Kenny vs. Spenny, and other great Canadian shows in 4k the they won't get in the US
Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48 /t/1489090/sony-vpl-vw500es-4k-projector-2013/540#post_23792997
I talked to my dealer who recently spoke with his Sony rep and while there is no exact news of when 4K service will be available in Canada, they are working on it. Again, it's the damn CRTC that controls all content that comes into Canada that won't allow the server to work. They will need to release a Canadian version of the FMP X1 with some Canadian content. Europe most likely faces the same issues with content being restricted.
At least we will get Trailer Park Boys, Kenny vs. Spenny, and other great Canadian shows in 4k the they won't get in the US
Quote:
Originally Posted by armstrr /t/1489090/sony-vpl-vw500es-4k-projector-2013/570#post_23795350
This may explain why Sony has given Canada And Europe different model #s and...pricing. At this point, they may not be able to say with certainty the server will work outside the good 'ol us of A.
Wonder if a VPN or something similar could work (and a valid shipping addy)...for canucks along the 49th parallel
Could be something to do with a flims distribution rights by country too. You have to pay the royalties and divvy up the pie differently by distribution contract. iTunes does this. For example there's music or content that is available on Great Britain's iTunes store that is not available on the US iTunes and vice versa. The film studio's have different distributors in different countries to keep happy as well.
If I understand the workings of HDCP 2.2 correctly it's possible to limit downloaded content by IP address and device or MAC address too. For sure Sony Entertainment is not going to readily want to download 4K content direct to China only to have it pop up for sale at 75 cents a move, loaded onto your portable hard disk drive at the little shop on Nanjing Road.
And for sure the CRTC and your broadcast content laws take the whole can of worms to a higher level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich /t/1489090/sony-vpl-vw500es-4k-projector-2013/550_50#post_23795170
The measurement may be below the standard of 12 - 14 ft lamberts, but that does not make it unacceptable. to your eyes, it would only look a very very small amount less bright. Acceptable is judgment made by the viewer and not any measurement against a standard.
Yep the 9.8 ftL was perfectly fine in 2D. I had no complaints.
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