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post #1 of 16 Old 09-11-2013, 02:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Looks like it's about to happen!

http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News/Details.aspx?NewsId=37859



New Singulus BLULINE III Machines Produce First 100 GB Blu-ray Discs





SINGULUS TECHNOLOGIES developed a new replication line under the product name BLULINE III for the manufacturing of triple-layer Blu-ray Discs with a storage capacity of 100 GB.

Production equipment by SINGULUS TECHNOLOGIES enables the production of next generation optical discs on the basis of the current BLULINE II machines for dual-layer Blu-ray Discs.

Dr.-Ing. Stefan Rinck, Chief Executive Officer of the SINGULUS TECHNOLOGIES AG, comments: "Just in time for the market introduction of the new ultra-high definition television technology (4K or Ultra-HD), we completed the development of the production technology for the new triple-layer Blu-ray Discs with 100 GB storage capacity". Dr. Rinck adds: "For SINGULUS TECHNOLOGIES, in the Optical Disc segment the year 2013 has been very positive overall. Until the end of this year's August we received significantly more orders for Blu-ray Disc production machines than in the prior-year period. We also see good opportunities for the sales of our Blu-ray production equipment in the future. The positive life cycle of the Blu-ray Disc will continue for some years with the launch of the new ultra-high definition television format".

The triple-layer Blu-ray Discs with 100 GB storage capacity, is the preferred playback medium for the new 4K technology.

With the realization of a new data compression method for the ultra-high definition technology, the storage volume per disc layer can be increased from 25 GB to 33 GB, resulting to a total capacity of 100GB per disc.

The Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) is currently discussing the specifications of new, global standards for 4K content stored in 100GB Blu-ray discs.

In the 1st half of 2013 Blu-ray Disc sales increased by 41 % compared with the same period one year ago (German Association of Audio-Visual Media (BVV), August 2013). With a share of more than 90 %, physical media (Blu-ray and DVD) also continue to dominate sales in the home entertainment market in 2013. Blu-ray Disc sales in the US, the international key market, will expand with a double-digit growth rate in 2013. This favorable trend is amplified by the market launch of the new ultra-high definition television technology and the upcoming market introduction of the new gaming consoles Playstation PS 4 by Sony and Microsoft?s Xbox One. Both gaming consoles are even expected to be equipped with a Blu-ray drive with 4K support.

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post #2 of 16 Old 09-11-2013, 06:24 AM
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Sweet! looks like we may actually GET a 4k format on disc! count me in!

Wonder when they will start using these discs for 4k movies? 2014/2015?
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post #3 of 16 Old 09-11-2013, 09:23 AM
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cool, but i'd still like to see a non-disc format. would be a lot easier storing the collection if they put movies on an SD card or something similar to that.

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post #4 of 16 Old 09-11-2013, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

cool, but i'd still like to see a non-disc format. would be a lot easier storing the collection if they put movies on an SD card or something similar to that.
There is a long thread around here somewhere discussing the merits of different media for UHD... while streaming and or flash cards seem like a good idea, from a bandwidth and cost perspective they are not very realistic at this time. I've become accustomed to the red box/amazon-prime way of doing things that has led me to be perfectly happy with optical media. Yes, xfer to NAS will be a PITA for UHD, but I think optical disc is the only path forward in the near future... cheap 64gb sd cards run about $30 right now... an optical disc costs a fraction of that. Ignoring the studios' resistance to releasing on a media/format that is easy to archive for the moment, how much extra would you be willing to pay for that convenience? $30? $20? $10?

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post #5 of 16 Old 09-11-2013, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by dougri View Post

There is a long thread around here somewhere discussing the merits of different media for UHD... while streaming and or flash cards seem like a good idea, from a bandwidth and cost perspective they are not very realistic at this time. I've become accustomed to the red box/amazon-prime way of doing things that has led me to be perfectly happy with optical media. Yes, xfer to NAS will be a PITA for UHD, but I think optical disc is the only path forward in the near future... cheap 64gb sd cards run about $30 right now... an optical disc costs a fraction of that. Ignoring the studios' resistance to releasing on a media/format that is easy to archive for the moment, how much extra would you be willing to pay for that convenience? $30? $20? $10?

I hear ya. but I also wonder what mass production can do. obviously the cost of SD cards would drop significantly if they were used for this purpose.
I mean blank recordable BD's were mega bux when BD first came out. i'm sure the commercial BD's were cheaper, but maybe not by tons. what do you think a commercial BD cost to manufacture before BD's were used for movies? 5bux? 10bux?

i'm also thinking a little broader. if SD cards are used for transferring movies, then maybe that 64gb card you want to buy for your camera will soon only cost 10bux because it's being made alongside the mass production of 100's of thousands of cards being used for commercial movies.

of course, I don't really know if that's the case, just speculation. I also don't know if disc or SD cards are closer to their max capacity at this point. maybe we could keep adding layers and a 300gb disc is possible. I feel an SD card, or something similar, is a lot more versatile than the physical discs we are used to. versatility means crossover markets, and that means efficient production.

one thing I would like to avoid is relying on another service(streaming) to view movies. forget about the fact my internet provider would take a day or more to stream a 2hr UHD movie. I do not like the fact I can 'own' something and not use it anytime I want to. I find it frustrating enough when I want to make changes to my harmony remote and can't because Logitech's website is down for maintenance. i'm a long way from trusting my internet and any online provider to be rock solid enough to replace physical media

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post #6 of 16 Old 09-11-2013, 12:19 PM
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Sweet! looks like we may actually GET a 4k format on disc! count me in!

Count me in too, as soon as Oppo comes out with a 4K UHD player for them. smile.gif

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post #7 of 16 Old 09-11-2013, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

I hear ya. but I also wonder what mass production can do. obviously the cost of SD cards would drop significantly if they were used for this purpose.
I mean blank recordable BD's were mega bux when BD first came out. i'm sure the commercial BD's were cheaper, but maybe not by tons. what do you think a commercial BD cost to manufacture before BD's were used for movies? 5bux? 10bux?

i'm also thinking a little broader. if SD cards are used for transferring movies, then maybe that 64gb card you want to buy for your camera will soon only cost 10bux because it's being made alongside the mass production of 100's of thousands of cards being used for commercial movies.

of course, I don't really know if that's the case, just speculation. I also don't know if disc or SD cards are closer to their max capacity at this point. maybe we could keep adding layers and a 300gb disc is possible. I feel an SD card, or something similar, is a lot more versatile than the physical discs we are used to. versatility means crossover markets, and that means efficient production.

one thing I would like to avoid is relying on another service(streaming) to view movies. forget about the fact my internet provider would take a day or more to stream a 2hr UHD movie. I do not like the fact I can 'own' something and not use it anytime I want to. I find it frustrating enough when I want to make changes to my harmony remote and can't because Logitech's website is down for maintenance. i'm a long way from trusting my internet and any online provider to be rock solid enough to replace physical media

I hear you, and tried to make the same case in months past, but have since been convinced that that time is not in the next few years. I'd love for 64gb cards to be $10 for dslr video, but I am NOT willing to pay >20% more for a movie to get it on flash memory instead of optical disc. I seriously hope your vision wins out and I can simply buy an SD UHD movie in the near future, but suspect for a myriad of reasons, that we will not see that in the next 5 yrs.

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I wonder what he'd think about 3D IMAX?
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post #8 of 16 Old 09-11-2013, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

I hear ya. but I also wonder what mass production can do. obviously the cost of SD cards would drop significantly if they were used for this purpose.
I mean blank recordable BD's were mega bux when BD first came out. i'm sure the commercial BD's were cheaper, but maybe not by tons. what do you think a commercial BD cost to manufacture before BD's were used for movies? 5bux? 10bux?

...

Mass produced pre-recorded Blu-ray discs cost on the order of 50 cents per disc to produce and the first BD read only discs produced were the commercial movies discs sold to the consumer, so there was no 'before'.. I bet the vast majority of consumers would not be willing to pay $$ more in order to have the movie on a SD card since the idea is to purchase a copy of the movie to keep for a personal movie library. Other than requiring less storage space, I don't see any real advantage for having it on a SD card.

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post #9 of 16 Old 09-12-2013, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by dougri View Post

I hear you, and tried to make the same case in months past, but have since been convinced that that time is not in the next few years. I'd love for 64gb cards to be $10 for dslr video, but I am NOT willing to pay >20% more for a movie to get it on flash memory instead of optical disc. I seriously hope your vision wins out and I can simply buy an SD UHD movie in the near future, but suspect for a myriad of reasons, that we will not see that in the next 5 yrs.

what if, they do a 'red box' style where you bring in your own SD card, insert it into the machine and 'rent' a movie.

obviously they'd have to figure out some security things, but it could be interesting to think about.

i'm also thinking that no matter what the format we see UHD movies on, we'll be paying more an extra 20% to get them... rolleyes.gif

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post #10 of 16 Old 09-12-2013, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post

Mass produced pre-recorded Blu-ray discs cost on the order of 50 cents per disc to produce and the first BD read only discs produced were the commercial movies discs sold to the consumer, so there was no 'before'.. I bet the vast majority of consumers would not be willing to pay $$ more in order to have the movie on a SD card since the idea is to purchase a copy of the movie to keep for a personal movie library. Other than requiring less storage space, I don't see any real advantage for having it on a SD card.

so your saying there's been no advancements in the efficiency of BD's?

i'm just saying that if the industry switched to something similar to SD cards, that in itself would reduce the cost of manufacturing them.

for me, the advantages i see are:
-much smaller
-easier to handle(no scratching)
i suspect also:
-apparently more room for advancement(i could be wrong, but it seems like SD cards will keep getting larger capacity, i'm not sure how many layers you can put on a BD)
-cheap hardware requirements.
-possibility for more universal applications. disc drives are becoming 'bulky', so much so many laptops don't even have them anymore. an SD slot can be put pretty much anywhere on any device from cell phone to standalone player.

i still like physical media, and i'd like it a lot more if i can toss 30-40 movies into a ziplock back(or whatever) to take with me out to the cabin or on vacation and be able to watch them on my phone, or tablet, or laptop, or whatever is convenient to bring along. that will never be possible with discs, and i don't trust 'the cloud' enough to give up physical media yet. and that would be the only other way you could get huge volumes of media with the same level of portability.

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post #11 of 16 Old 09-12-2013, 07:03 PM
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SD cards are just one type of packaging for flash memory and the market for flash memory is already huge. I would be surprised if using them for movie distribution increased demand by more than 20%.

Flash memory chips are just a type of integrated circuit so the pricing curve generally follows moore's law - double the capacity for the same price every 18 months.

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post #12 of 16 Old 09-14-2013, 09:50 AM
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What if we had a service like netflix, that you can send them in and they mail the SD or Flash Drive back with a movie. But we should be fine with 4K Blu Rays
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post #13 of 16 Old 09-14-2013, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

so your saying there's been no advancements in the efficiency of BD's?
.....

Actually the cost numbers I've seen were from 2009 where a dual layer disc cost about $0.45 to make plus perhaps another $0.05 for the case, label and shrink wrap. Prices might have dropped a little since then.

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post #14 of 16 Old 09-16-2013, 07:14 AM
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Actually the cost numbers I've seen were from 2009 where a dual layer disc cost about $0.45 to make plus perhaps another $0.05 for the case, label and shrink wrap. Prices might have dropped a little since then.

when were BD invented? when were they produced for consumer movies? was there a price difference between those two times?

i'm not saying SD cards(or whatever) will magically become free to produce, but I can just about guarantee that if they produce them for playing movies they would be much cheaper than what we are familiar with right now.

in either event, i'd rather the 'powers that be' spend the time and money researching better/cheaper ways to put movies on flash memory(or something with similar characteristics, maybe there's a cheaper method for non-erasable?) then to continue developing discs that are fragile, large, and slow

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post #15 of 16 Old 09-16-2013, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

when were BD invented? when were they produced for consumer movies? was there a price difference between those two times?

i'm not saying SD cards(or whatever) will magically become free to produce, but I can just about guarantee that if they produce them for playing movies they would be much cheaper than what we are familiar with right now.

in either event, i'd rather the 'powers that be' spend the time and money researching better/cheaper ways to put movies on flash memory(or something with similar characteristics, maybe there's a cheaper method for non-erasable?) then to continue developing discs that are fragile, large, and slow

Movies on BDs were first released in the spring of 2006. I bet the total world-wide sales figures for the number of flash memory chips used in SD and microSD cards already well exceeds the number of Blu-ray discs sold per year. SD cards are already a commodity product and prices would not come down drastically even if all movies suddenly were released on SDs rather than BDs. I really don't see any point in further speculation for using SDs for distribution of movies (as it not going to happen as there has been no industry desire to go in this direction).

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post #16 of 16 Old 09-21-2013, 11:12 AM
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Looks like 4k blu rays are 12-18 months away, how long is the wait for 3D 4k blu rays?
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