Blu-ray 4K UHD - coming 2015? - Page 29 - AVS Forum
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post #841 of 1244 Old 04-15-2014, 01:27 PM
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Why can't HDCP 2.2 or any future versions required to play 4K BD be firmware upgradeable? If a 4K display has the 18Gbps chip, it would be disappointing to find out it will not be able to play a 4K BD.
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post #842 of 1244 Old 04-15-2014, 05:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

Why can't HDCP 2.2 or any future versions required to play 4K BD be firmware upgradeable? If a 4K display has the 18Gbps chip, it would be disappointing to find out it will not be able to play a 4K BD.

They may want to keep HDCP only in hardware so that it cannot be readily hacked via firmware.

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post #843 of 1244 Old 04-15-2014, 05:45 PM
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They may want to keep HDCP only in hardware so that it cannot be readily hacked via firmware.

Hopefully that's true. It would be a good thing for many projector owners. Then, the current 4K Sonys will have no trouble playing future 4K BDs
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post #844 of 1244 Old 04-15-2014, 06:17 PM
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UHD Rollout Timetable at NAB 2014:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1527206/uhd-rollout-timetable-at-nab-2014

I wonder what the implications for 4K Blu this holds? Does this mean the early discs will not contain metadata or such for when. say, rec 2020 is released, etc.?

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post #845 of 1244 Old 04-16-2014, 07:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

UHD Rollout Timetable at NAB 2014:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1527206/uhd-rollout-timetable-at-nab-2014

I wonder what the implications for 4K Blu this holds? Does this mean the early discs will not contain metadata or such for when. say, rec 2020 is released, etc.?

As stated in that thread about the chart: "Here's a timetable offered by Thierry Fautier of Harmonic, a video-infrastructure company."

I wouldn't consider it 'official' in any way, it's just one person/company's best guess (although perhaps an educated guess) for the 4K UHD rollout timetable. The BDA has many companies actively involved in the creation of the Blu-ray 4K spec. and the position of the movie studios involved (from the previously posted link - HERE) make it clear they want to take a more aggressive approach for the rollout of enhanced UHD capabilities than shown in that chart.


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post #846 of 1244 Old 04-16-2014, 07:43 AM
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post #847 of 1244 Old 04-16-2014, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Toknowshita View Post

The problem with 4K disc is that not everyone has even abandoned DVD at this point.

The market can support 2 formats but 4K is going to fail if it's competing with DVD and Blu-ray.

Let Blu-ray become the standard and after DVD is phased out then bring 4K to market.

All 4K is going to do is cause confusion in the market at this point. Especially if it's named with a Blu-ray branding moniker.

I can't believe people are still watching DVDs, but I know it's true especially over 65 wink.gif.
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post #848 of 1244 Old 04-16-2014, 09:05 PM
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Most people are probably watching movies on their phones, tablets, or non HD versions of the movie on their TVs.
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post #849 of 1244 Old 04-16-2014, 11:49 PM
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I can't believe people are still watching DVDs, but I know it's true especially over 65 wink.gif.

According to a knowledgeable worker at my local Family Video store, he said with new release rentals about half are Blu-ray which is pretty good IMO. I never for a second ever thought DVD was going to disappear when the high def formats were released in 2006.

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post #850 of 1244 Old 04-17-2014, 02:14 AM
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Excuse me, but what is a DVD? Are those the small hockey puck size laser discs thingies or whatever I have stacked up im a closest that I almost never play anymore. They do play fine in mah Bluray machine.

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post #851 of 1244 Old 04-17-2014, 05:46 AM
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I can't believe people are still watching DVDs, but I know it's true especially over 65 wink.gif.

 

Funny, if I was making an assumption, I would assume it's under 65 as most all Blu-ray releases come with a DVD included in the package.

 

The studio's aren't putting that extra DVD in the package out of the goodness of one's heart.  There is market demand driving that decision for sure.

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post #852 of 1244 Old 04-17-2014, 06:02 AM
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It really doesn't matter what I watch at 69, we seniors pretty much fall asleep right after the start of one of those spinning thingies.

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post #853 of 1244 Old 04-17-2014, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

It really doesn't matter what I watch at 69, we seniors pretty much fall asleep right after the start of one of those spinning thingies.

biggrin.gif. I do too and I am far away from 69 wink.gif

This is what Blu Ray 4K needs really other wise it is not worth it!


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post #854 of 1244 Old 05-14-2014, 03:02 PM
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Hopefully it will have 12 bit color

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post #855 of 1244 Old 05-14-2014, 03:45 PM
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I think you have incorporated the 4K standard and the player. Two different things. I would suspect the disc standard, what ever it is or when, and if, it comes, will not be fully realized by the initial 4K discs nor the initial players.

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post #856 of 1244 Old 05-14-2014, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

I think you have incorporated the 4K standard and the player. Two different things. I would suspect the disc standard, what ever it is or when, and if, it comes, will not be fully realized by the initial 4K discs nor the initial players.

With Sony bitching and moaning about Blu-ray, expect another protracted fight of some kind amongst Hollywood and the manufacturers, which will again ensure that 4K Blu-ray and possibly UHD as a whole will be hurt badly whatever is finally decided upon. The same thing happened with HD-DVD v. Blu-ray and DIVX v. DVD, and Beta v. VHS, and... it just gets worse each go-around.

These greedy a-holes never learn.
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post #857 of 1244 Old 05-14-2014, 09:38 PM
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Just put the darn data on a data disk, and have the PS4 or stand alone player transfer the data to a SSD/HDD decode and play from there.....covers both internet download and disk.

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post #858 of 1244 Old 05-15-2014, 06:59 AM
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With Sony bitching and moaning about Blu-ray...
Except they're not. They complained about a decline in their physical disc manufacturing operation(s). They never even referenced Blu-Ray.
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post #859 of 1244 Old 05-15-2014, 08:46 AM
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Except they're not. They complained about a decline in their physical disc manufacturing operation(s). They never even referenced Blu-Ray.

What do you think they were referencing? CD's? It was pretty clear what they were talking about. What they're trying to do is push for their own proprietary UHD media system again, probably as a downloadable cloud type service. They don't want to share revenue like they have to do with the BDA. The trouble is that a proprietary system won't sit well with the other manufacturers and other Hollywood studios.

This will probably be another royal mess.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
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post #860 of 1244 Old 05-15-2014, 09:18 AM
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What do you think they were referencing? CD's? It was pretty clear what they were talking about.
They were referencing their physical disc manufacturing operation. Its very clear what they were talking about.
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Originally Posted by Sony 
Sony expects to record approximately 25 billion yen in impairment charges mainly related to its overseas disc manufacturing business. Primarily due to demand for physical media contracting faster than anticipated, mainly in the European region, the future profitability of the disc manufacturing business has been revised. Consequently, Sony has determined that it does not expect to generate sufficient cash flow in the future to recover the carrying amount of long-lived assets, resulting in an expected impairment charge. Primarily due to the reason mentioned above, the fair value of the entire disc manufacturing business also has decreased, resulting in an expected impairment of goodwill.

They make CDs, DVDs, and Blu-Rays, which of those do you think are most likely to be in decline?
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post #861 of 1244 Old 05-15-2014, 11:32 AM
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The biggest decline is from their CD format, second DVD and third being Blu-ray. Not JUST Blu-ray.

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post #862 of 1244 Old 06-17-2014, 01:29 PM
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starting to see some fairly incredibly priced "Ultra HD" TVs in the marketplace but still no news of an official player, just a handful of streams that Netflix is pushing out if you have fairly incredible bandwidth.

What's the latest? My research of the internet is incredibly non-informative with everyone sort of waiting with baited breath on the BDA.
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post #863 of 1244 Old 06-17-2014, 01:36 PM
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I truly dislike streaming but 15 Mbps for 4K Netflix can be considered as "incredible bandwidth".

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post #864 of 1244 Old 06-17-2014, 01:48 PM
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I truly dislike streaming but 15 Mbps for 4K Netflix can be considered as "incredible bandwidth".
if you live in brand new residential construction (as I do), you're lucky to have anything at all. I have U-Verse and I wouldn't even bother trying to run 4K over their lines.

So here's a fun little nugget I just pulled out of wikipedia for some perspective - the first HDTV's went on sale in 1998. Blu-Ray's first hit the market in 2006. You would have figured they would have learned from their mistakes. Guess not.

so by this logic, we're a good 6+ years from a proper 4k disc. :P
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post #865 of 1244 Old 06-17-2014, 03:03 PM
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There are some people like the AVS newswriter "imagic" who believe a 4K Blu format will never happen.

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post #866 of 1244 Old 06-17-2014, 03:07 PM
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There are some people like the AVS newswriter "imagic" who believe a 4K Blu format will never happen.
boy I hope that's not true. still, enthusiasts who demand that level of quality are definitely the minority.
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post #867 of 1244 Old 06-17-2014, 03:26 PM
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I don't think its an issue of its not needed or there won't be a market. Its a horse and cart issue. We have first stage UHD and Bluray 4K to be successful at all will need to be at least 2nd stage. Wide color space, higher dynamic range, high color subsampling, longer bit lengths. A format has to be agreed to although initial disks could be just what is needed for stage one displays. No one can agree on what the next stage will be. Its the set manufacturers call. No one else's. The rest of the dog will follow.

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post #868 of 1244 Old 06-17-2014, 04:11 PM
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if you live in brand new residential construction (as I do), you're lucky to have anything at all. I have U-Verse and I wouldn't even bother trying to run 4K over their lines.

So here's a fun little nugget I just pulled out of wikipedia for some perspective - the first HDTV's went on sale in 1998. Blu-Ray's first hit the market in 2006. You would have figured they would have learned from their mistakes. Guess not.

so by this logic, we're a good 6+ years from a proper 4k disc. :P
Thats a scary prospect - but it could be true ! Theres no degree of urgency apparent at all at the moment......
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post #869 of 1244 Old 06-17-2014, 04:35 PM
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Thats a scary prospect - but it could be true ! Theres no degree of urgency apparent at all at the moment......
That's why I continue to buy Blu Rays. I'm guessing it will be 2020. before this all settles out. In the mean time I'll continue to enjoy my Blu Ray library.

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post #870 of 1244 Old 06-17-2014, 07:38 PM
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if you live in brand new residential construction (as I do), you're lucky to have anything at all. I have U-Verse and I wouldn't even bother trying to run 4K over their lines.

So here's a fun little nugget I just pulled out of wikipedia for some perspective - the first HDTV's went on sale in 1998. Blu-Ray's first hit the market in 2006. You would have figured they would have learned from their mistakes. Guess not.

so by this logic, we're a good 6+ years from a proper 4k disc. :P
Not to mention...how many years did it take for a lot of high demand titles to finally arrive on Blu? You have to figure 5-7 years AFTER the format arrived in many cases. Same thing happened with DVD. There are so many Blu catalog titles which are using old 1080p transfers - I wonder if many of them will ever be transfer to 4K especially from stingy studios like Universal and Paramount.

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