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post #901 of 1062 Old 07-06-2014, 07:15 AM
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This is the perfect way to P----customers off. The film companies and consumer electronic manufactures often shoot themselves in the back and screw consumers in the process.
The sad thing is that the horse has left the gate and may never finish the race. Just think about the people who bought UHD or 4K and find out that they can't play any new 4K Blu-Ray format or 4K streaming that may come along. If you just bought a new TV or receiver and discovered this you would be up in arms.
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post #902 of 1062 Old 07-06-2014, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by rwestley View Post
This is the perfect way to P----customers off. The film companies and consumer electronic manufactures often shoot themselves in the back and screw consumers in the process.
The sad thing is that the horse has left the gate and may never finish the race. Just think about the people who bought UHD or 4K and find out that they can't play any new 4K Blu-Ray format or 4K streaming that may come along. If you just bought a new TV or receiver and discovered this you would be up in arms.

Unless you have money to burn, it doesn't always pay to be on the bleeding edge of technology. That's why I'm not buying an Atmos enabled product this go-around. Too many compromises and we still don't know how supportive Hollywood will be with the content.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
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post #903 of 1062 Old 07-06-2014, 08:47 AM - Thread Starter
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What??

That's news to me. Very disappointing. It's really time we got some interface which can be software upgraded to include new features. Ok, higher bandwidth probably can't be achieved by a new firmware, but things like support for a different encryption or new audio/video formats (e.g. support for 4:2:0 transport) etc should be possible to add back in without having to buy a whole new receiver or projector. In the past couple of years we practically had to upgrade to a new receiver every other year, just because the HDMI version got outdated. That's seriously messed up...

/rant off
You may recall, or not, that in the early days of HDTV we had TVs with only component video inputs at 720p and/or 1080i then some HDTVs added DVI, but without any HDCP. As a result, these early generation HDTVs were not fully compatible with later HD sources. However some accommodation was make with the early generation of Blu-ray players to provide a HD output that was compatible with such early HDTVs. For Blu-ray UHD, I doubt that any accommodation will be make for early UHD TVs that lack support for HDCP 2.2 other than perhaps providing an output down converted to 1080p. However, they probably will offer compatible output signal formats for those UHD TVs/projectors that only support the limited set of UHD formats that can be provided over limited bandwidth versions of HDMI 2.0, or even an enhanced version of HDMI 1.4, as long HDCP 2.2 is supported. Thus the current generation of Sony 4K/UHD projectors will probably work with the future Blu-ray UHD players, but the players will need to limit which UHD formats they will output, in terms of such things as which combinations of bit depth and chroma sub-sampling schemes are provided.

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post #904 of 1062 Old 07-06-2014, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post
You may recall, or not, that in the early days of HDTV we had TVs with only component video inputs at 720p and/or 1080i then some HDTVs added DVI, but without any HDCP. As a result,these early generation HDTVs were not fully compatible with later HD sources. However some accommodation was make with the early generation of Blu-ray players to provide a HD output that was compatible with such early HDTVs. For Blu-ray UHD, I doubt that any accommodation will be make for early UHD TVs that lack support for HDCP 2.2. However, they probably will offer compatible output signal formats for those UHD TVs/projectors that only support the limited set of UHD formats that can be provided over limited bandwidth versions of HDMI 2.0, or even an enhanced version of HDMI 1.4, as long HDCP 2.2 is supported. Thus the current generation of Sony 4K/UHD projectors will probably work with the future Blu-ray UHD players, but the players will need to limit which UHD formats they will output. in terms of such things as which combinations of bit depth and chroma sub-sampling schemes are provided.
It's very possible that at the pace the industry is going, you'll actually need HDCP 2.3 or 2.4 by the time UHD actually makes its debut with the finalized specs. included.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
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post #905 of 1062 Old 07-06-2014, 09:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
It's very possible that at the pace the industry is going, you'll actually need HDCP 2.3 or 2.4 by the time UHD actually makes its debut with the finalized specs. included.

Unlikely since the next major roll of HDCP versions is several years away while the Blu-ray UHD spec. should be completed within the next year. Details are hard to come by as to what's happening within the BDA's technical working group that is developing the new BD UHD spec. However, from what little I have heard within the past month it sounds like progress is being made, but there are still a few areas where there is jockeying still going on by a few of the companies involved based more on economic, rather than purely technical, grounds (where they are attempting to get their patented technologies used so their company can collect royalties from future BD UHD sales).

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post #906 of 1062 Old 07-06-2014, 09:56 AM
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It will be interesting to see if Sony comes up on the losing end again. I think some companies are sick and tired of them throwing their weight around. The fact is that Sony is not what it once was. Lets see what Samsung does with this. If enough companies don't support HDCP 2.2 then it will never take off. There have been quite a few UHD sets sold this year and customers will scream if they discover that any new 4K Blu-Ray standard will not be playable on their sets. With Samsung pushing Netflix streaming ability I wonder if 4K Blu-Ray will ever take off. Cinavia is another example of Sony's folly of trying to push their paranoia onto others.
I think it is more of a problem of getting the chips, not that companies are choosing not to support HDCP 2.2. Lumagen is planning on bringing out a 4K processor with HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2 and availability of the chips is what is the hold up. Manufacturer's probably are not willing to wait until next year to bring out new AVR's and miss the Fall buying period. Especially with one of the neatest features in years, Atmos, coming out.

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post #907 of 1062 Old 07-06-2014, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post
I think it is more of a problem of getting the chips, not that companies are choosing not to support HDCP 2.2. Lumagen is planning on bringing out a 4K processor with HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2 and availability of the chips is what is the hold up. Manufacturer's probably are not willing to wait until next year to bring out new AVR's and miss the Fall buying period. Especially with one of the neatest features in years, Atmos, coming out.
Sure, but that means that the poor sods who are going to buy one of these next AVR models will have to replace them again when the HDCP 2.2 chipsets will be available?


No one is answering the main question, until now we had HDMI 2.0b for 10.2Gb with HDCP 2.2. That was supposed to be the interim solution, and I could understand that until HDMI 2.0a chipsets with HDCP 2.2 became available.


This is what Sony offers on his 4K models, and apparently Onkyo on its upcoming AVRs.


But what is this silly sidestep of GIVING UP HDCP 2.2 for an HDMI 2.0a speed? That I have no idea what it means for the future of HDCP 2.2, but to see the main AVR manufacturers giving up on HDCP 2.2 when they implement HDMI 2.0 is no good.


No one has any idea what the real reason for this move is? There is absolutely no 4K content that makes use of the higher bandwidth today, while all the commercial 4K content available needs HDCP 2.2.


This looks to me like an "up yours" to Sony, and certainly not like HDCP 2.2 has been accepted as the future standard by the rest of the industry.


I'm angry and baffled by the stupidity of this industry.


I'm not even sure now that I will buy a 4K display with HDCP 2.2, because I'm not sure it gives me any future-proofing.


I guess we'll see at Cedia if JVC finally implements HDCP 2.2 (even only with HDMI 2.0b) on its upcoming models.


I'm not sure it will be the case, and that would explain why they didn't make more of an effort to implement HDCP 2.2 in this year's models.


The availability of chipsets was an excuse last year. It won't be an excuse this year. Something else is happening, and it doesn't smell good.


/rant off.
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post #908 of 1062 Old 07-06-2014, 12:58 PM
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I'm itching to adopt 4k and Atmos, but like most, holding off. I'm pretty sure we won't see 4k Blu ray this year anyway, I'm happy I invested in my x500 last month - it's a time if flux for sure, not much certainty or clarity at the moment either with video or audio.

One more year........

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post #909 of 1062 Old 07-06-2014, 01:02 PM
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I'm itching to adopt 4k and Atmos, but like most, holding off. I'm pretty sure we won't see 4k Blu ray this year anyway, I'm happy I invested in my x500 last month - it's a time if flux for sure, not much certainty or clarity at the moment either with video or audio.

One more year........
Yeah, if the studios don't have new holiday Blu-ray releases with Atmos then you know their interest will probably be pretty lackadaisical despite Dolby's assurances. Sony is releasing the Atmos mixed The Amazing Spider-Man 2 in... wait for it...

5.1

Yes, just like Warner's "Gravity," it's not even 7.1

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
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post #910 of 1062 Old 07-06-2014, 01:12 PM
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The truly sad thing is that the wishes of quasi knowledgeable AVers is irrelevant to the outcome Whatever it is, everyone here will be unhappy one way or the other.

I am not surprised by any of this nor dissapointed inthe industry. why? I did not expect them to act in any manner that is not perceived to be in each company's perceived best interests.

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post #911 of 1062 Old 07-06-2014, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
... No one has any idea what the real reason for this move is? There is absolutely no 4K content that makes use of the higher bandwidth today, while all the commercial 4K content available needs HDCP 2.2.

This looks to me like an "up yours" to Sony, and certainly not like HDCP 2.2 has been accepted as the future standard by the rest of the industry. ...
Sony has stated in several of their 4K press releases and presentations of their desire to include some form of proprietary watermarking on Sony owned 4K media along with HDCP 2.2 implementation. I'm not 100% sure but I believe HDCP 2.2 allows for this and perhaps this is another reason for the delay as there really is no content available other than Sony Entertainment Service down loads and Sony has a closed proprietary hardware system at this point.
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post #912 of 1062 Old 07-06-2014, 01:18 PM
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The truly sad thing is that the wishes of quasi knowledgeable AVers is irrelevant to the outcome Whatever it is, everyone here will be unhappy one way or the other.

I am not surprised by any of this nor disappointed in the industry. why? I did not expect them to act in any manner that is not perceived to be in each company's perceived best interests.
But whenever they act in their "best interest," they f--k things up. They always arrogantly think they know what's best for we mouth breathers... and it rarely works out.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
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post #913 of 1062 Old 07-06-2014, 01:55 PM
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If your buying now for 4K Bluray future proofing your kidding yourself. Holiday 2015 at the earliest, which is two projector cycles away and nearly two AVR cycles. Other than whatever Atmos brings to the market (which doesn't require any new hdmi or HDCP) there will be nothing on the market that needs anything they are talking about for current features when it comes to video unless your part of the .01% that uses the Sony stuff. I've said it in a few reviews and posts this year, anything your buying now or in the near future should be considered for what is in the market now and not toward any future 4K format. They don't even know what that will ultimately be so the CE companies aren't doing you any favors with any features they are toting now.
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post #914 of 1062 Old 07-06-2014, 03:11 PM
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The AVR manufacturers are always trying to come up with something new each year to up-sell their previous model. As long as the CEM's are smart enough to put dual HDMI outputs on their UHD/4K devices, that's fine for me until a few years pass and the dust settles. I haven't had any compelling reason to replace my 2011 era Denon 4311 or the 2012 model Pioneer SC-68. Maybe ATMOS will take off, who knows.

it would be easier to switch everything through the AVR, but the dual output on the Sony 4K device works well with my setup. If 4K BD ever takes off, it's likely that co's such as OPPO will continue their tradition with dual HDMI out.
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post #915 of 1062 Old 07-06-2014, 03:35 PM
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Yeah, if the studios don't have new holiday Blu-ray releases with Atmos then you know their interest will probably be pretty lackadaisical despite Dolby's assurances. Sony is releasing the Atmos mixed The Amazing Spider-Man 2 in... wait for it...

5.1

Yes, just like Warner's "Gravity," it's not even 7.1
Thats mental !

Ok, I'm parking all upgrades till 2016 - what I have now, I'll hold - will just have a better vacation next year instead

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post #916 of 1062 Old 07-06-2014, 10:58 PM
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But whenever they act in their "best interest," they f--k things up. They always arrogantly think they know what's best for we mouth breathers... and it rarely works out.
Why the But? And then so what? You can just sit still and enjoy HDTV and DVDs or Blurays. 5.1 or 7.1. Its all good. Stay away from the forum and take up other hobbies. And I am not joking. No one needs 4K or a new surround sound system. Why buy from an industry that you perceive is arrogant and who could give two fecals about YOU. Of course you can do whatever you want even though you would rather do something else if the opportunity presented itself. The industry creates opportunities as the way it best perceives for itself and then tries its best to make you want it through advertisement and the press. Just like seduction and many of us here no matter the age have severe raging HT hormones.
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post #917 of 1062 Old 07-07-2014, 01:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post
You may recall, or not, that in the early days of HDTV we had TVs with only component video inputs at 720p and/or 1080i then some HDTVs added DVI, but without any HDCP. As a result, these early generation HDTVs were not fully compatible with later HD sources. However some accommodation was make with the early generation of Blu-ray players to provide a HD output that was compatible with such early HDTVs. For Blu-ray UHD, I doubt that any accommodation will be make for early UHD TVs that lack support for HDCP 2.2 other than perhaps providing an output down converted to 1080p.
It's a bad thing that we have partial HDMI 2.0 implementations today. But that would still be somewhat acceptable if it were communicated properly. The key problem is that all manufacturers just claim to support HDMI 2.0, but nobody really says out loud which limitations their HDMI 2.0 implementation has. And that in my book comes close to deception. There will be a rude awakening in store for many end users because they believe they have fully featured HDMI 2.0 devices - and sooner or later they're going to learn that they were mislead...
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post #918 of 1062 Old 07-07-2014, 01:43 AM
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If your buying now for 4K Bluray future proofing your kidding yourself. Holiday 2015 at the earliest, which is two projector cycles away and nearly two AVR cycles. Other than whatever Atmos brings to the market (which doesn't require any new hdmi or HDCP) there will be nothing on the market that needs anything they are talking about for current features when it comes to video unless your part of the .01% that uses the Sony stuff. I've said it in a few reviews and posts this year, anything your buying now or in the near future should be considered for what is in the market now and not toward any future 4K format. They don't even know what that will ultimately be so the CE companies aren't doing you any favors with any features they are toting now.
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The AVR manufacturers are always trying to come up with something new each year to up-sell their previous model. As long as the CEM's are smart enough to put dual HDMI outputs on their UHD/4K devices, that's fine for me until a few years pass and the dust settles. I haven't had any compelling reason to replace my 2011 era Denon 4311 or the 2012 model Pioneer SC-68. Maybe ATMOS will take off, who knows.

it would be easier to switch everything through the AVR, but the dual output on the Sony 4K device works well with my setup. If 4K BD ever takes off, it's likely that co's such as OPPO will continue their tradition with dual HDMI out.

Sorry guys, but - respectfully - you are both missing the point. For those of us who NEED to upgrade and were waiting for the next standard to materialize since last year, it is a HUGE issue.


The goalpost had, until now, been defined by the whole industry - including in this thread - as being HDMI 2.0a with HDCP 2.2. This was supposed to be what the rumoured Bluray 4K and future 4K sources would request, at least for a while. This was the next standard.


On the way there, uninformed people - or people who can afford swapping every year and are not concerned with resale value - bought HDMI 1.4 AVRs with "4K" support, "4K" projectors without HDCP 2.2 (latest e-shift JVCs), 4K projectors with HDCP 2.2 but only HDMI 2.0b speed (latest SONYs). That, I could understand. Happens all the time. I (thought I) was informed, so I decided to skip last year and keep using my trusty 3311 and my still excellent rs45 until the full speed HDMI 2.0a with HDCP 2.2 chipsets arrive. That was expected to happen by the end of this year.


My upgrade cycle is 3 years for projectors and 5 years for AVRs. Last year, it looked to me like it was a better idea to wait for HDMI 2.0a than upgrade to HDMI 2.0b interim equipment when no real content was available yet.


The shift here is that the goalpost has changed and has not been replaced by anything else. There is NO goalpost.


All these AVR and display manufacturers choosing HDMI 2.0a with NO HDCP 2.2 means that there is something else at play than just time needed to get proper 2.0a chipsets with HDCP 2.2, or that's what they would have chosen, like Onkyo and Sony did.


They are simply refusing to see HDCP 2.2 like the next protection standard, or they would do like Onkyo/Sony and choose HDMI 2.0b with HDCP 2.2 as an interim solution.


Anyway, I thought someone would know what has changed in the industry (they know or have decided that there will be no bluray 4K? They have decided to boycott Sony's content to get more weight in the BDA negotiations about bluray 4K? They want to kill off Sony who is already weak but is still trying to decide for the rest of the industry? There are backward compatibility issues between HDCP 2.2 and former versions?) but it looks like no one knows anything, or if they know are not willing/able to speak.


We need to leave the "there is never any future-proofing" level, we all know that (here).


Still, when there is a published standard (HMDI 2.0a with HDCP 2.2), and for a while it looked like slowly everyone is moving towards there, but suddenly there is a sidestep like this, it's different from the usual, cynical "I'll milk you every year as much as I can". They are shooting themselves in the foot because IMHO it announces a new standard war.


As far as I'm concerned, there is NO upcoming 4K/UHD standard as of now until I understand what's going on, so I freeze all purchase, at least until 4K projectors cost less than a kidney (I can't afford to throw away an 1100ES or even a 500/600ES next year just because they have decided to change what was supposed to be the next standard for a content protected path).

/rant off. I promise .


EDIT: And I admit defeat about Bluray 4K, it clearly won't happen by the end of this year, I'm not even sure it will happen at all. Mark, your cigars are on the way. You were right all along .

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post #919 of 1062 Old 07-07-2014, 06:58 AM
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EDIT: And I admit defeat about Bluray 4K, it clearly won't happen by the end of this year, I'm not even sure it will happen at all. Mark, your cigars are on the way. You were right all along
You are giving up?
Now?
2014 is the year of 4K!
I've been reading this thread since the beginning and I am still a believer...

I am still convinced that it will happen this year. It will start with some free satellite transmissions in UHD and that will wake up a few decision makers in physical media business *FingersCrossed*
I just bought a VW500 and I HAVE TO believe this

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post #920 of 1062 Old 07-07-2014, 07:05 AM
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You are giving up?
Now?
2014 is the year of 4K!
I've been reading this thread since the beginning and I am still a believer...

I am still convinced that it will happen this year. It will start with some free satellite transmissions in UHD and that will wake up a few decision makers in physical media business *FingersCrossed*
I just bought a VW500 and I HAVE TO believe this

Cheers, Alex

Hi Alex,


My bet with Mark was specifically about Bluray 4K happening before the end of this year.


IMHO this side step from the industry confirms that it won't happen this year and raises serious doubts about it ever happening, so why make Mark wait any longer for his three Cubanos?


If I'm wrong, I'll be glad anyway, and Mark who is a gentleman will probably send me six Cubanos, so it's a win-win
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post #921 of 1062 Old 07-07-2014, 07:54 AM
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OK. OK.

This was never a fair bet because of the 2nd law of thermodynamics anyway.

Could we indeed see a format war? I doubt it. The brick will be shipping in a few days. Sony can give them away or offer great package deals with its panel;s and sell content to consumers via down load. It doesn't need a hard disc format to continue the war. As long as no real standard come out for 4K Bluray or even 4K displays, everything it makes is consistent and it maintains a monopoly of popular content to and through the display.

Who will control the degree and method of content protection? The studeos!

Now there are various 4K streaming devices coming besides the Sony brick. Take the Nuvola which might actually come some day. How its its b rated content being protected.How are other streamers protecting their content?

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post #922 of 1062 Old 07-07-2014, 08:02 AM
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if there is more than one 4k media streaming box (ie one for each movie studio) then F them. I have no doubts that this could actually come true and it's also the stupidest possible thing that they could do.

I can't stand it when companies decide that their content, their way of doing things is so much better than anyone elses that they decide to make it completely incompatible with everything else. Sony is exhibit 1A on that list.

Apple would be a close second, but I'll grant Apple a pass because their innovation in the last 10 years has revolutionized the way most of us interact with the internet.
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post #923 of 1062 Old 07-07-2014, 08:33 AM
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if there is more than one 4k media streaming box (ie one for each movie studio) then F them. I have no doubts that this could actually come true and it's also the stupidest possible thing that they could do.

I can't stand it when companies decide that their content, their way of doing things is so much better than anyone elses that they decide to make it completely incompatible with everything else. Sony is exhibit 1A on that list.

Apple would be a close second, but I'll grant Apple a pass because their innovation in the last 10 years has revolutionized the way most of us interact with the internet.
You're missing Samsung... If you want to see movies in 4K from Paramount or 20th Century Fox then you need to buy a Samsung pannel and their proprietary hard drive system.

http://www.samsung.com/us/video/tvs-.../CY-SUC10SH/ZA
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post #924 of 1062 Old 07-07-2014, 08:49 AM
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Sorry guys, but - respectfully - you are both missing the point. For those of us who NEED to upgrade and were waiting for the next standard to materialize since last year, it is a HUGE issue.


The goalpost had, until now, been defined by the whole industry - including in this thread - as being HDMI 2.0a with HDCP 2.2. This was supposed to be what the rumoured Bluray 4K and future 4K sources would request, at least for a while. This was the next standard.


On the way there, uninformed people - or people who can afford swapping every year and are not concerned with resale value - bought HDMI 1.4 AVRs with "4K" support, "4K" projectors without HDCP 2.2 (latest e-shift JVCs), 4K projectors with HDCP 2.2 but only HDMI 2.0b speed (latest SONYs). That, I could understand. Happens all the time. I (thought I) was informed, so I decided to skip last year and keep using my trusty 3311 and my still excellent rs45 until the full speed HDMI 2.0a with HDCP 2.2 chipsets arrive. That was expected to happen by the end of this year.


My upgrade cycle is 3 years for projectors and 5 years for AVRs. Last year, it looked to me like it was a better idea to wait for HDMI 2.0a than upgrade to HDMI 2.0b interim equipment when no real content was available yet.


The shift here is that the goalpost has changed and has not been replaced by anything else. There is NO goalpost.


All these AVR and display manufacturers choosing HDMI 2.0a with NO HDCP 2.2 means that there is something else at play than just time needed to get proper 2.0a chipsets with HDCP 2.2, or that's what they would have chosen, like Onkyo and Sony did.


They are simply refusing to see HDCP 2.2 like the next protection standard, or they would do like Onkyo/Sony and choose HDMI 2.0b with HDCP 2.2 as an interim solution.


Anyway, I thought someone would know what has changed in the industry (they know or have decided that there will be no bluray 4K? They have decided to boycott Sony's content to get more weight in the BDA negotiations about bluray 4K? They want to kill off Sony who is already weak but is still trying to decide for the rest of the industry? There are backward compatibility issues between HDCP 2.2 and former versions?) but it looks like no one knows anything, or if they know are not willing/able to speak.


We need to leave the "there is never any future-proofing" level, we all know that (here).


Still, when there is a published standard (HMDI 2.0a with HDCP 2.2), and for a while it looked like slowly everyone is moving towards there, but suddenly there is a sidestep like this, it's different from the usual, cynical "I'll milk you every year as much as I can". They are shooting themselves in the foot because IMHO it announces a new standard war.


As far as I'm concerned, there is NO upcoming 4K/UHD standard as of now until I understand what's going on, so I freeze all purchase, at least until 4K projectors cost less than a kidney (I can't afford to throw away an 1100ES or even a 500/600ES next year just because they have decided to change what was supposed to be the next standard for a content protected path).

/rant off. I promise .


EDIT: And I admit defeat about Bluray 4K, it clearly won't happen by the end of this year, I'm not even sure it will happen at all. Mark, your cigars are on the way. You were right all along .
I don't think the goal (HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2) has changed. I just don't think the AVR manufacturer's can get there before the end of the year, so they are bringing out what they can for the fall selling season. Like you, I want a new AVR/prepro. I wanted Atmos, HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2, but it looks like that may be later. We will know more after CEDIA.

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post #925 of 1062 Old 07-07-2014, 08:50 AM - Thread Starter
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The BD-UHD is expected to use HEVC coding for the discs, but they will need the extensions to the HEVC standard that are now being worked. ITU-T Study Group 16 is now meeting in Sapporo, Japan with the meeting schedule to end this Thursday. It is hoped that the outcome of that meeting will be an agreed amendment to h.265/HEVC standard that will include support for a number of UHD enhancements such as support for greater bit depths, higher fidelity chroma sub-sampling, higher refresh rates, etc. I have heard that Sony has been pressing hard to get the updated standard completed so that the chip manufacturers can get the new HEVC decoder chips into production next year. This appears to be an important step toward making Blu-ray UHD a reality in 2015 and I hope that within the next few weeks we will hear some positive news out of the ongoing ITU-T SG16 meeting.

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post #926 of 1062 Old 07-07-2014, 08:53 AM
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The BD-UHD is expected to use HEVC coding for the discs, but they will need the extensions to the HEVC standard that are now being worked. ITU-T Study Group 16 is now meeting in Sapporo, Japan with the meeting schedule to end this Thursday. It is hoped that the outcome of that meeting will be an agreed amendment to h.265/HEVC standard that will include support for a number of UHD enhancements such as support for greater bit depths, higher fidelity chroma sub-sampling, higher refresh rates, etc. I have heard that Sony has been pressing hard to get the updated standard completed so that the chip manufacturers can get the new HEVC decoder chips into production next year. This appears to be an important step toward making Blu-ray UHD a reality in 2015 and I hope that within the next few weeks we will hear some positive news out of the ongoing ITU-T SG16 meeting.
I would definitely like to read something positive on the consumer UHD video front for a change.

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post #927 of 1062 Old 07-07-2014, 09:06 AM
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I'll be honest...I know several people and I buy BD for Ultraviolet!
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post #928 of 1062 Old 07-07-2014, 09:30 AM
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I don't think the goal (HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2) has changed. I just don't think the AVR manufacturer's can get there before the end of the year, so they are bringing out what they can for the fall selling season. Like you, I want a new AVR/prepro. I wanted Atmos, HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2, but it looks like that may be later. We will know more after CEDIA.
I would agree with you if they had put HDMI 2.0b with HDCP 2.2, which was the established interim solution until now.


With the majority of the AVR industry deciding for HDMI 2.0a without HDCP 2.2, I -respectfully - disagree.


There is nothing to see at Cedia, if the AVR manufacturers make that move for their 2014/2015 models it will be the same shamble with displays as last year. If JVC come up with a 4K display this year, which isn't sure at all, it probably won't have HDCP 2.2 either. Why favour Sony's sale of content for one more year?


The earliest things can come together re 4K / UHD (if they ever will) is Cedia 2015. I agree with Kris that this is the earliest it can happen now.

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post #929 of 1062 Old 07-07-2014, 09:33 AM - Thread Starter
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I'll be honest...I know several people and I buy BD for Ultraviolet!
The Techradar story from a couple of months ago is misleading. What Sony was talking about was their disc manufacturing business overall and this includes producing CDs, DVDs and BDs not only for Sony Pictures but under contract for other studios. BD sales have been fairly good while sales of CD and DVD have been in decline for several years. It's also possible that Sony's share of the manufacturing business in Europe has declined due to other producers gaining an increased market share. In a separate statement by a Sony representative (at NAB show in May) it was said that streaming/downloads only accounts less than 1/3 of the revenue from consumers for movies/videos while physical media generates more than 2/3 of the total revenue.


While it is true that the revenue from total disc (DVD + Blu-ray) sales for 2013 did decline by about 8% from the 2012 levels the Blu-ray disc sales were actually up by 5% while DVD sales were continuing there multi-year decline. While this is not the double digit sales growth Blu-ray disc sales had up thru 2011, it is still a very viable segment of the consumer marketplace for quality video.

The source for the above info is HERE.

Total Blu-ray sales over the past few months are running at levels above for the same time period in 2013 indicating 2014 will probably be another solid growth year with year-over-year sales revenue outpacing the 2013 levels. For the 2nd quarter of 2014 (April thru first 3 weeks of June) the total BD sales revenue is up 11.3% as compared to the same period in 2013. Weekly BD and DVD sales figures are available at the following web site: http://www.homemediamagazine.com/lis...et-analysis-47

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post #930 of 1062 Old 07-07-2014, 10:19 AM
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The Techradar story from a couple of months ago is misleading. What Sony was talking about was their disc manufacturing business overall and this includes producing CDs, DVDs and BDs not only for Sony Pictures but under contract for other studios. BD sales have been fairly good while sales of CD and DVD have been in decline for several years. It's also possible that Sony's share of the manufacturing business in Europe has declined due to other producers gaining an increased market share. In a separate statement by a Sony representative (at NAB show in May) it was said that streaming/downloads only accounts less than 1/3 of the revenue from consumers for movies/videos while physical media generates more than 2/3 of the total revenue.


While it is true that the revenue from total disc (DVD + Blu-ray) sales for 2013 did decline by about 8% from the 2012 levels the Blu-ray disc sales were actually up by 5% while DVD sales were continuing there multi-year decline. While this is not the double digit sales growth Blu-ray disc sales had up thru 2011, it is still a very viable segment of the consumer marketplace for quality video.

The source for the above info is HERE.

Total Blu-ray sales over the past few months appears to be running at levels above for the same time period in 2013 indicating 2014 will probably be another growth year with year-over-year sales revenue outpacing the 2013 levels. For example, the most recent weekly sales reported were for the week ending 6/21/14 where DVD sales were down 2.9% while BD sales were up 36.6% as compared to the same week in 2013, but this was an unusually good week for BD sales (source for sales data is: http://www.homemediamagazine.com/mar...k-ended-062114

I'm doing my best to keep Blu Ray sales up, dog gone it !!
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