Blu-ray 4K UHD - coming 2015? - Page 40 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Baselworld is only a few weeks away. Getting the latest news is easy, Click Here for info on how to join the Watchuseek.com newsletter list. Follow our team for updates featuring event coverage, new product unveilings, watch industry news & more!



Forum Jump: 
 1455Likes
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-05-2014, 02:47 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
zombie10k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,076
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2202 Post(s)
Liked: 1966
I've run the 1100 with the filter on, I could live with the reduced output in my setup.

This is great news in general! I like collecting media as is evident from my ridiculously large (and somewhat useless) laserdisc collection.
Craig Peer and reanimator like this.
zombie10k is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 09-05-2014, 02:54 PM
Home Theater Lover!
 
Craig Peer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 9,466
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2456 Post(s)
Liked: 2233
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
I've run the 1100 with the filter on, I could live with the reduced output in my setup.

This is great news in general! I like collecting media as is evident from my ridiculously large (and somewhat useless) laserdisc collection.

Considering that not everything is not on Blu Ray yet, I'm guessing I'll be collecting disks and still transitioning from Blu Ray to 4K Blu Ray when I hit 70 years old at this rate ( I'm 58 now ) !

AV Science, Inc. Direct (585) 671-2972 craig@avscience.com www.avscience.com Like us on Facebook

Home theater equipment sales and advice. Call to see the JVC RS600 in Northern California

My theater pics - http://www.avsforum.com/photopost/sh...hp?cat=2386514
Craig Peer is offline  
Old 09-05-2014, 03:03 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
mark haflich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Venice, Florida, USA
Posts: 22,167
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1416 Post(s)
Liked: 1006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
Re bluray 4K everything except the gamut if it's P3. Only the VW1x00 supports P3 with a filter (which induces a lumens loss). Not the 500ES or 600ES.
If you keep the light source constant and increase the intensities of the red and green dichromatic filters to move the saturations to the locations for P3, you will reduce the light output similarly to the insertion mechanically of a yellow filter as is done in the 1000/1100ES,

If you widen the color space and want to keep the same lumens out you need a stronger light source or one with a different spectrum (such as LEDs) more towards those locations.i

Last edited by mark haflich; 09-09-2014 at 03:19 AM.
mark haflich is offline  
Old 09-05-2014, 03:04 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
zombie10k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,076
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2202 Post(s)
Liked: 1966
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
Considering that not everything is not on Blu Ray yet, I'm guessing I'll be collecting disks and still transitioning from Blu Ray to 4K Blu Ray when I hit 70 years old at this rate ( I'm 58 now ) !
I know there's been a lot of arguing about streaming vs. physical media. I'm from the old school. I pay for something, I have something in my hand. I can bring it to a friends house and watch it. Lend it to someone, etc. The irony is that I rip all digital content to a 20TB NAS and store my media in a safe location so my family doesn't destroy it.. but I still have it and that's the important part.

Go 4K BD!!
kimg1453 likes this.
zombie10k is online now  
Old 09-05-2014, 03:27 PM
Home Theater Lover!
 
Craig Peer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 9,466
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2456 Post(s)
Liked: 2233
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
I know there's been a lot of arguing about streaming vs. physical media. I'm from the old school. I pay for something, I have something in my hand. I can bring it to a friends house and watch it. Lend it to someone, etc. The irony is that I rip all digital content to a 20TB NAS and store my media in a safe location so my family doesn't destroy it.. but I still have it and that's the important part.

Go 4K BD!!

Screw streaming. Skyfall and Oblivion ( and similar top quality mastered Blu Rays - see the remastered version of Gladiator too ) look so good now, 4K Blu Ray has to be an entire step above that. I'm looking forward to seeing what can be done ( I'm optimistic )!


I like having a library where I can pull old favorites out every year or so and re-watch them with my movie loving friends. Always have. Plus, I always have the perfect wine to pull out of the cellar !
reanimator and kimg1453 like this.

AV Science, Inc. Direct (585) 671-2972 craig@avscience.com www.avscience.com Like us on Facebook

Home theater equipment sales and advice. Call to see the JVC RS600 in Northern California

My theater pics - http://www.avsforum.com/photopost/sh...hp?cat=2386514
Craig Peer is offline  
Old 09-05-2014, 03:40 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
stanger89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Marion, IA
Posts: 20,466
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1989 Post(s)
Liked: 879
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
Screw streaming. Skyfall and Oblivion ( and similar top quality mastered Blu Rays - see the remastered version of Gladiator too ) look so good now, 4K Blu Ray has to be an entire step above that. I'm looking forward to seeing what can be done ( I'm optimistic )!
Well they're pushing/spec-ing higher bit depths and wider gamut so I'm optimistic too
stanger89 is offline  
Old 09-05-2014, 06:42 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jlanzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,043
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 134 Post(s)
Liked: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
Re bluray 4K everything except the gamut if it's P3. Only the VW1x00 supports P3 with a filter (which induces a lumens loss). Not the 500ES or 600ES.

I think we can be pretty sure Sony will be introducing its 2015 updated vw600 to display the new UHD standards, as well as JVC finally for a true 4K machine. But just imagine what a DLP 3 chipper 4K, like Sims, would look like incorporating all the new 4K standards with reference 4K BR...I said imagine, because at its likely cost, most of us will only be able to do that.
jlanzy is offline  
Old 09-06-2014, 12:26 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Manni01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,681
Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2484 Post(s)
Liked: 1850
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post
If you keep the light source constant and increasethe intensities of the red and green dichromatic filters to move the saturations to the locations for P3, you will reduce the light output similarly to the insertion mechanically of a yellow filter as is done in the 1000/1100ES,

If you widen the color space and want to keep the same lumens out you need a stronger light source of one with a different spectrum such as LEDs more towards those locations.i
When did I say it can be achieved with UHP lamps without a lumens loss ? I was only correcting a few people who assumed that all the 4K sony models would support P3, which isn't true but caused by Sony claiming DCI compatibility even on the lower models, forgetting to say that it's only resolution wise and not gamut wise, and reminding that even on the vw1x00, this p3 compatibility had a cost in lumens which means that depending on each setup not everyone will be able to achieve it practically without a dimmer picture which might be out of specs (drop below 12-14fL) if they have a large screen or a unity/low gain/AT screen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlanzy View Post
I think we can be pretty sure Sony will be introducing its 2015 updated vw600 to display the new UHD standards, as well as JVC finally for a true 4K machine. But just imagine what a DLP 3 chipper 4K, like Sims, would look like incorporating all the new 4K standards with reference 4K BR...I said imagine, because at its likely cost, most of us will only be able to do that.
I'm sure that next year's model(s) will support HDMI 2.0a (and P3 if that's required for bluray 4K), but this year it's the new epson or the vw1x00 for now as far as P3 is concerned.

I'm hoping JVC comes up with an hdmi 2.0b, hdcp 2.2 and p3 compliant model this year. In my setup, I honestly don't care about 4K resolution or e-shift but I care about everything else.

We'll find out next week

Last edited by Manni01; 09-06-2014 at 05:26 AM.
Manni01 is offline  
Old 09-06-2014, 12:43 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Manni01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,681
Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2484 Post(s)
Liked: 1850
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
I've run the 1100 with the filter on, I could live with the reduced output in my setup.

This is great news in general! I like collecting media as is evident from my ridiculously large (and somewhat useless) laserdisc collection.
Hi zombie,

What is the lumens loss on the vw1100, in percentage, when the p3 filter is engaged and the unit is calibrated to P3?

That might help users to evaluate whether they can take the lumens drop or not.

You have a HP screen with a 2.4 or 2.8 gain (forgot which), so I'm sure you'll be fine even on your 142" diag behemoth!

If your screen had a lower gain, or if Mark's snowmatt unity gain screen was larger, you both might not be able to engage the P3 filter and get 12-14 fL or more at the same time.


Regarding collecting media, I would buy bluray 4K mastered at 12 bits 422, but at 10 bits 420 not so much as a double dip will soon be required...

Last edited by Manni01; 09-06-2014 at 04:46 AM.
Manni01 is offline  
Old 09-06-2014, 12:55 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Dan Hitchman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 12,492
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3179 Post(s)
Liked: 1628
The more I read about the possible specs. for the first "4k" Blu-ray's... the less I like what I'm hearing. UHD with limited upgrades on a 50 GB disc?? That's truly pushing a point... don't they know this has to look great on larger TV's and projectors too in order to get anyone interested? 100 GB is cutting it thin as is. It seems to be almost purposefully limited in scope. 10 bit 4:2:0 video can still have banding. They should have at least gone to 4:2:2.

The BDA sounds like it's a year late and $20 short.
Manni01 likes this.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!

Last edited by Dan Hitchman; 09-06-2014 at 01:01 AM.
Dan Hitchman is online now  
Old 09-06-2014, 05:01 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Manni01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,681
Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2484 Post(s)
Liked: 1850
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
BDA wants REC 2020, Hollywood wants P3 (they already have the masters for it). Plus the other issues with 2020 (no displays that support, perception issues from person to person) create other issues they don't want to deal with. The resolution will be UHD, not DCI 4K. From my sources, it will support triple layer BD (100 GB) but that will probably be on a title by title basis (like dual layer now). 10 bit 4:2:0 for color resolution. BT 1886 for gamma AFAIK, but we'll see.

Obviously none of this is set in stone, this is just what my inside source is saying, and he is rarely if ever wrong on this stuff. But he says they are still going back and forth and the delay has to do with everyone deciding on something and the BDA (CE companies) and studios are not seeing eye to eye.
Thanks a lot for sharing this insider info and for confirming the UHD res.


Have you noticed that in the CNET article linked above by imgEL http://www.cnet.com/news/4k-blu-ray-...reaming-media/ the Panasonic guy mentions BT2020, not P3, and says that the players will be able to detect if the displays handles such gamut and make use of it?

This is interesting on two points.

First BT2020 would make more sense than P3 if the res. is UHD and not 4K. I'd say that 4K/P3 makes sense, UHD/BT2020 also, but UHD/P3 makes little sense. Do they crop the P3 master or do they scale it to fit the smaller UHD res? Neither is ideal, so I'd prefer 4K/P3 personally, at least we could make use of the 1.89:1 4K panels on the 4K Sony PJs. I'd love to replace my 16/9 screen by a 19/10 one to make use of that and get smaller black bars. That would be a good compromise for me between 2.35 and 1.78.

Second it would mean that no consumer display available currently or in the near future can take advantage of the larger gamut, unless they have a delivery mechanism in place to adapt to P3 as well as rec709. Also rec709 and rec2020 share the same D65 white point so it would make it much easier to switch between the two, while P3 has a different white point which a slight calibration hassle.

It would be interesting to find out more about this if your source is reachable .


EDIT: One last thing that would be interesting is if there is any support for 21/9, which is part of the HDMI 2.0 specs.

Last edited by Manni01; 09-06-2014 at 06:12 AM.
Manni01 is offline  
Old 09-06-2014, 06:59 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Ron Jones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 6,910
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 843 Post(s)
Liked: 825
The most troubling thing about the latest "official" announcements, coming out of IFA, about Blu-ray UHD is the mid-2015 date to have the spec. complete. The last "official" statement came about 6 months ago and at that time the schedule was to complete the spec. by the end of 2014. So over the past 6 months the schedule has slipped by 6 months. However, one glimmer of hope was one statement that the mid-2015 date would be to have both the spec. and the licensing package ready, and not just the spec.


On the technical side, if what Kris is hearing in correct, then it seems to me that the first generation of Blu-ray UHD will be too dumbed down with only 4:2:0 and 10-bit depth. I would have hoped for at least DCI P3 colorspace, 4:2:2 and the option for either 10-bit or 12-bit depths for 24Hz material (since this is what the movie studios are already working with). Hopefully those within the BDA technical working group will listen to those members pushing for the higher quality formats. I would expect the spec. to place a burden on the player to adapt the UHD output to what the display can support, as long as the display meets certain minimum requirements, such as Rec. 709, 4:2:0 and 8-bit depth and having a HDMI 2.0 input with HDCP 2.2.
Dan Hitchman and Manni01 like this.

Ron Jones
Blog + Reviews + Articles: projectorreviews.com
Ron Jones is offline  
Old 09-06-2014, 07:01 AM
Advanced Member
 
DERG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Brown City, Michigan
Posts: 667
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
I don't agree with this completely. For one, it is FAR more convinient to watch a movie streaming than having to go buy it, especially on an impulse. Another thing is the quality of the display. I have a 65" VT50 plasma from Panasonic in my family room. I still about 10-12 feet back from it at a minimum where my couches are. If I stream from Vudu at 720p (HD not HDX) it looks fine. Resolution isn't the issue I notice, it is banding or compression artifacts; and these typically only crop up in darker areas of the image. But I'm a picky bastard. My wife never says a word and I'd say she is more of an average consumer. We here at AVS live in a bubble and the average joe or jane isn't even close to our demands or quibbles. If I stream HDX on my plasma it is almost indistinguishable from Blu-ray with brighter content (blacks still have banding and compression issues from time to time). I have VERY good bandwidth at home for internet (about 50mbps average) so streaming from Apple, Netflix or Vudu usually looks more the acceptable from normal person standards. I would much rather watch Blu-ray in my theater room but I can completely understand why the general public would be fine with what I see downstairs, whether I like it or not.

If I try to do even Vudu HDX in my theater room on my 120" projection screen, it looks bad and a far cry from Blu-ray regardless of what I'm watching.
My CIH screen is 130" dia so I was thinking of 720P PQ on that not being all that great... especially @ $8. 720P isn't bad on smaller screens. And, your right; "average joe or jane" probably couldn't tell the difference anyway.

BTW - I always look forward to reading your reviews over at S&V.
DERG is offline  
Old 09-06-2014, 07:21 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Manni01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,681
Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2484 Post(s)
Liked: 1850
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post
The most troubling thing about the latest "official" announcements, coming out of IFA, about Blu-ray UHD is the mid-2015 date to have the spec. complete. The last "official" statement came about 6 months ago and at that time the schedule was to complete the spec. by the end of 2014. So over the past 6 months the schedule has slipped by 6 months. However, one glimmer of hope was one statement that the mid-2015 date would be to have both the spec. and the licensing package ready, and not just the spec.


On the technical side, if what Kris is hearing in correct, then it seems to me that the first generation of Blu-ray UHD will be too dumbed down with only 4:2:0 and 10-bit depth. I would have hoped for at least DCI P3 colorspace, 4:2:2 and the option for either 10-bit or 12-bit depths for 24Hz material (since this is what the movie studios are already working with). Hopefully those within the BDA technical working group will listen to those members pushing for the higher quality formats. I would expect the spec. to place a burden on the player to adapt the UHD output to what the display can support, as long as the display meets certain minimum requirements, such as Rec. 709, 4:2:0 and 8-bit depth and having a HDMI 2.0 input with HDCP 2.2.
Thanks Ron. That's my sentiment exactly, and it's nice not to be alone .
Manni01 is offline  
Old 09-06-2014, 07:32 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Kris Deering's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Pacific Northwet
Posts: 8,333
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1280 Post(s)
Liked: 1859
Quote:
Originally Posted by DERG View Post
My CIH screen is 130" dia so I was thinking of 720P PQ on that not being all that great... especially @ $8. 720P isn't bad on smaller screens. And, your right; "average joe or jane" probably couldn't tell the difference anyway.

BTW - I always look forward to reading your reviews over at S&V.
Thanks! A few more will be published there soon but after that you'll find my articles at Secrets. I left Sound and Vision this month.

My Home Theater
Technical Editor/Writer Sound and Vision Magazine
Kris Deering is offline  
Old 09-06-2014, 07:37 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
mark haflich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Venice, Florida, USA
Posts: 22,167
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1416 Post(s)
Liked: 1006
The best of luck in your switch.
Manni01 likes this.
mark haflich is offline  
Old 09-06-2014, 07:48 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Manni01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,681
Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2484 Post(s)
Liked: 1850
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post
The best of luck in your switch.


+1
Manni01 is offline  
Old 09-06-2014, 09:16 AM
AVS Special Member
 
blee0120's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Merillville, IN 46410
Posts: 4,110
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 319 Post(s)
Liked: 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
Thanks! A few more will be published there soon but after that you'll find my articles at Secrets. I left Sound and Vision this month.
Good luck
blee0120 is online now  
Old 09-06-2014, 09:39 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Ron Jones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 6,910
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 843 Post(s)
Liked: 825
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
Thanks! A few more will be published there soon but after that you'll find my articles at Secrets. I left Sound and Vision this month.
I also want to add good luck with the new job. Will you be a CEDIA? If so how about meeting up with the other AVS members that are coming to the CEDIA After Hours Party on Thurs. night at the convention center.

Ron Jones
Blog + Reviews + Articles: projectorreviews.com

Last edited by Ron Jones; 09-06-2014 at 11:19 AM.
Ron Jones is offline  
Old 09-06-2014, 09:51 AM
AVS Special Member
 
blee0120's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Merillville, IN 46410
Posts: 4,110
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 319 Post(s)
Liked: 154
Looks as if 4:2:2 at 12 bits will be what 4K BD will end up with at the max and 10Gbps is all it will require at 24hz. Personally, I would be satisfied with a JVC or Sony that only have hdmi 2.0 at 10Gbps. When or if they ever do broadcast in 4K and need the full 18Gbps, I would want a DLP for sports that and gaming too. I have really grown to love the DLP look. So, bring on 4K. Too bad we won't have 4K 3D anytime soon.
blee0120 is online now  
Old 09-06-2014, 09:56 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Dan Hitchman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 12,492
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3179 Post(s)
Liked: 1628
Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post
Looks as if 4:2:2 at 12 bits will be what 4K BD will end up with at the max and 10Gbps is all it will require at 24hz. Personally, I would be satisfied with a JVC or Sony that only have hdmi 2.0 at 10Gbps. When or if they ever do broadcast in 4K and need the full 18Gbps, I would want a DLP for sports that and gaming too. I have really grown to love the DLP look. So, bring on 4K. Too bad we won't have 4K 3D anytime soon.
The spec as talked about was listed as 10 bit 4:2:0. Not good enough in my book.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
Dan Hitchman is online now  
Old 09-06-2014, 10:05 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
zombie10k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,076
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2202 Post(s)
Liked: 1966
I guess we'll have to see for ourselves in only 14 short months..

some of the 4K content I've seen on the VW1100 looks remarkable and is far from ideal on the specs, I'm still looking forward to seeing what they come up.


edit: @ Manni, this weekend I'll try to get some lumen measurements with the filter on. My lamp has less than 200 hours and is still performing like new so it should give some insight.
Manni01 and reanimator like this.

Last edited by zombie10k; 09-06-2014 at 10:09 AM.
zombie10k is online now  
Old 09-06-2014, 10:12 AM
AVS Special Member
 
wco81's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 5,675
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 902 Post(s)
Liked: 335
No word about firm commitment from Hollywood on content.

The studios being on the BDA is no guarantee that they'll ramp up releases of titles to coincide with availability of players.

Sales of packaged media has flatlined (at best) by now? I would like to think there is a big enough market for PQ but if the streaming services get reliability and pricing right, that may be too much of an obstacle.


If they want to try to entice some consumers, they'll get rid of all the Java stuff that makes discs take too long to load. And BD-I bombed so they might as well get rid of that too.
wco81 is online now  
Old 09-06-2014, 10:13 AM
AVS Special Member
 
blee0120's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Merillville, IN 46410
Posts: 4,110
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 319 Post(s)
Liked: 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
The spec as talked about was listed as 10 bit 4:2:0. Not good enough in my book.
Some said they are transitioning to higher specs. Either way, anything better than currently is a plus for me. I seen some BD that looks phenomenal and I can't see them looking better. So, us getting a chance to see better, I'm done for that.
blee0120 is online now  
Old 09-06-2014, 10:14 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Andreas21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Norway
Posts: 1,875
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 702 Post(s)
Liked: 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
I guess we'll have to see for ourselves in only 14 short months..

some of the 4K content I've seen on the VW1100 looks remarkable and is far from ideal on the specs, I'm still looking forward to seeing what they come up.


edit: @ Manni, this weekend I'll try to get some lumen measurements with the filter on. My lamp has less than 200 hours and is still performing like new so it should give some insight.
If I remember correctly the filter takes away about 50%...

Regards
Andreas
My Homecinema
Calibration software: Lightspace and Calman. TPG: Murideo Fresco SIX-G
Meters: Klein K-10 A and Jeti 1501. THX II certified.
Andreas21 is offline  
Old 09-06-2014, 10:15 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Dan Hitchman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 12,492
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3179 Post(s)
Liked: 1628
Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post
Some said they are transitioning to higher specs. Either way, anything better than currently is a plus for me. I seen some BD that looks phenomenal and I can't see them looking better. So, us getting a chance to see better, I'm down for that.
However, a 50 GB disc is not what I would consider a good delivery platform. Too much compression is the bane of any video technology.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
Dan Hitchman is online now  
Old 09-06-2014, 10:19 AM
AVS Special Member
 
madshi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,869
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 346 Post(s)
Liked: 349
1080p Blu-Ray has 25GB or 50GB discs. If 4K Blu-Ray has 50GB or 100GB discs, that's just fine with me. Those 50GB discs would only be used for short movies, or they would split longer movies on 2 discs. Maybe 100GB discs could be hard to produce in the beginning. The same was true for 50GB when 1080p Blu-Ray was introduced. I'm more worried about bitrate than capacity.
madshi is offline  
Old 09-06-2014, 11:12 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Dan Hitchman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 12,492
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3179 Post(s)
Liked: 1628
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
1080p Blu-Ray has 25GB or 50GB discs. If 4K Blu-Ray has 50GB or 100GB discs, that's just fine with me. Those 50GB discs would only be used for short movies, or they would split longer movies on 2 discs. Maybe 100GB discs could be hard to produce in the beginning. The same was true for 50GB when 1080p Blu-Ray was introduced. I'm more worried about bitrate than capacity.
Bitrate and data storage capacity go hand in hand. Plus, how many discs have been "Superbit" with high bitrates and no extras taking up space right out of the gates? They won't split up movies to two discs unless they're super long (like LOTR Extended, Cleopatra, 10 Commandments, etc.). They didn't do it with Blu-ray even when some of the movies should have been (like the Dances With Wolves extended cut) and I doubt they'll start now.

Be careful of what you wish for because you might just get it.

They should have at least started with a 100 GB disc and higher video standards (I doubt the audio standards will change much except for the inclusion of at least Atmos) that can be adjusted downward if need be depending on the display. As of right now, we'll have to double or even triple dip titles and buy even newer UHD players yet again later on since they want to do a staged rollout. About the dumbest thing they could do. The market is on pins and needles as it is.
Manni01 likes this.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!

Last edited by Dan Hitchman; 09-06-2014 at 11:17 AM.
Dan Hitchman is online now  
Old 09-06-2014, 02:40 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Manni01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,681
Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2484 Post(s)
Liked: 1850
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post
If I remember correctly the filter takes away about 50%...
If confirmed by Zombie this would be pretty bad news (especially for Mark and his Snowmatte ). I was conservatively thinking 20-30%.


Zombie, thanks for offering to measure the lumens drop. Please make sure if at all possible that your measurements are not only with the filter engaged but after calibrating to P3, especially the white point (which should be set AFAIK to D55 for film content, not D65 as for rec709). Ideally the gamut set to the P3 targets as well, as each calibration step will likely drop more lumens (I don't know how much, depends how close the filter gets you).


And don't worry about the age of the lamp, what's interesting is the delta between filter on calibrated to P3-D55 / filter off calibrated to rec 709-D65(we'll need both numbers). The delta should be similar irrespective of lamp age.

Last edited by Manni01; 09-06-2014 at 02:47 PM.
Manni01 is offline  
Old 09-06-2014, 03:55 PM
AVS Special Member
 
PeterTHX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,143
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 185 Post(s)
Liked: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
The more I read about the possible specs. for the first "4k" Blu-ray's... the less I like what I'm hearing. UHD with limited upgrades on a 50 GB disc?? That's truly pushing a point... don't they know this has to look great on larger TV's and projectors too in order to get anyone interested? 100 GB is cutting it thin as is.

Relax. You're still thinking in AVC terms. HEVC will be the codec used and it doesn't require as much bitrate for a UHD picture.


I speculate they will start with 50GB discs and ramp up from there to 66/100/120GB. Not every film requires that much space. The supplements will probably still be the same 480i SD ones we get today on standard Blu-ray.

My opinions do not reflect the policies of my company
PeterTHX is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
 
Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off