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post #2071 of 2720 Old 04-24-2015, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Frank714 View Post
I came across these news rather accidentally - Will UHD Blu-ray playback require an internet connection?

http://www.myce.com/news/sony-hack-r...details-75833/
I would not worry about it. Sony and MS tried this with their game disc and removed it before launch becasue it prevents reselling of used disc. Plus it is not like they can implement it for the blu-ray version, so it will really do little to combat piracy and more just inconvenience paying customers that don't have or want a internet connection.
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post #2072 of 2720 Old 04-24-2015, 09:46 PM
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I would not worry about it. Sony and MS tried this with their game disc and removed it before launch becasue it prevents reselling of used disc. Plus it is not like they can implement it for the blu-ray version, so it will really do little to combat piracy and more just inconvenience paying customers that don't have or want a internet connection.
Just to clear Microsoft was the only one who actually said they were going to do the online activation for their physical disks on Xbox One. When the response came back they had to relent. I don't think the product actually fully recovered from the blowback.
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post #2073 of 2720 Old 04-25-2015, 06:07 AM
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Just to clear Microsoft was the only one who actually said they were going to do the online activation for their physical disks on Xbox One. When the response came back they had to relent. I don't think the product actually fully recovered from the blowback.
I thought Sony initially required it, then MS followed suit. When Sony backed off, MS followed suit again.
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post #2074 of 2720 Old 04-25-2015, 07:51 AM
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I thought Sony initially required it, then MS followed suit. When Sony backed off, MS followed suit again.
MS was the only one to official announce it, but Sony had plans to do the same internally. Then they saw the sh@tstorm it created and came out against it because they never publicly stated they where considering it also.
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post #2075 of 2720 Old 04-25-2015, 11:13 AM
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If they pull this crap then UHD BD will be DOA. Count me out.

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post #2076 of 2720 Old 04-25-2015, 11:18 AM
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I doubt this will end up happening. I remember there were talks of something similar with HD DVD and Blu-ray before they were released.

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post #2077 of 2720 Old 04-25-2015, 11:57 AM
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This would be outrageous if they actually added this "enhanced" internet key encryption tool. What if your player konks out or you want a different one and they decide to shut off the authentication server tied to that disc as they've done before?? That would relegate some of your collection to the trash bin on the whim of the studios.

On the home video front, this happened with the WMV/VC-1 encoded 1080p files that were added to some DVD's at the start of the HD revolution. You could play them on your PC in high resolution and Dolby 5.1 (like Terminator 2 and some IMAX films), but only if you had online authentication enabled. When the Microsoft PC high def video format died out before Blu-ray and HD-DVD's debut, the servers no longer would allow you to play the files. The software couldn't connect to get the key code.

As one person described it... it's like asking the publisher permission every time you want to read a book.

I will not support this scheme on disc or digital download services that we may have in the future, and I urge everyone else to do the same.

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post #2078 of 2720 Old 04-25-2015, 12:18 PM
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I definitely will not support the format if this is required for reasons discussed. And I'll be honest; I'm fine with standard Blu-ray on my 9 foot wide screen if it comes down to that.

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post #2079 of 2720 Old 04-25-2015, 12:52 PM
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I definitely will not support the format if this is required for reasons discussed. And I'll be honest; I'm fine with standard Blu-ray on my 9 foot wide screen if it comes down to that.
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post #2080 of 2720 Old 04-25-2015, 02:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Remember the internet role for the verification for the encryption key in only required the first time a given UHD Blu-ray disc title is played on the specific player. It appears the player will retain the authorization info for this disc title in its internal flash memory and after that first playing, internet access will no longer be needed. I really don't see this scenario a being big deal as long it that same disc can then be played on other player (where internet access again will be required the first time it is played on that 2nd player) and thereafter the disc can be played on either player without further internet access.

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post #2081 of 2720 Old 04-25-2015, 02:36 PM
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I go through between 5 to 12 players a year. Be it just for my blog and/or for print publication reviews. I don't see the studios will allow me to register one movie to so many players.
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post #2082 of 2720 Old 04-25-2015, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post
Remember the internet role for the verification for the encryption key in only required the first time a given UHD Blu-ray disc title is played on the specific player. It appears the player will retain the authorization info for this disc title in its internal flash memory and after that first playing, internet access will no longer be needed. I really don't see this scenario a being big deal as long it that same disc can then be played on other player (where internet access again will be required the first time it is played on that 2nd player) and thereafter the disc can be played on either player without further internet access.
But how many other players? What if a firmware update to your player wipes the keys? What happens when the key servers go away? What about rentals? What about resales? What about Disney and their penchant for "limited time only" releases, will they disable authorization of playback outside the sales window? Why would I buy a disc/movie for $30-$40 when it's not guaranteed that in a year, two, ten years when I (have to) buy a new player, I'll be able to play that movie.

The real question is why are they doing this? It seems to me the most "practical" reason is to kill off Netflix as a disc "competitor". If you can only "register" your disc to n players, that effectively kills the rental model. The other option is just their irrational crusade to prevent anyone from using the content on their discs in any way that they haven't thought of/approved.

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post #2083 of 2720 Old 04-25-2015, 03:01 PM
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If this is the only way the UHD can be played back, then I will not jump into the UHD BD bandwagon
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post #2084 of 2720 Old 04-25-2015, 03:23 PM
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If this happens not only I'm out but I would voice my opinion very affirmatively, ...very.

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post #2085 of 2720 Old 04-25-2015, 04:24 PM
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If this is implemented on Ultra Blu rays, could it not also be implemented on new releases of DVDs and Blu rays?


If so, it will only hasten the demise of the physical format as a way to watch movies.


However, remember when the music industry tried to encrypt CDs so they couldn't be copied? There was enough backlash that they backed off, right?


So there is hope
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post #2086 of 2720 Old 04-25-2015, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post
Remember the internet role for the verification for the encryption key in only required the first time a given UHD Blu-ray disc title is played on the specific player. It appears the player will retain the authorization info for this disc title in its internal flash memory and after that first playing, internet access will no longer be needed. I really don't see this scenario a being big deal as long it that same disc can then be played on other player (where internet access again will be required the first time it is played on that 2nd player) and thereafter the disc can be played on either player without further internet access.
For me it most definitely is a big deal. If the authentication servers are shut off and your hardware breaks, you lose every movie you have bought. This would kill one of the major advantages physical media had over DRM'ed online distribution in the past. If they require online authentication, then it's no longer a movie purchase in my book, but just a rent with an unknown/unsure duration.
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post #2087 of 2720 Old 04-25-2015, 07:48 PM
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If this is implemented on Ultra Blu rays, could it not also be implemented on new releases of DVDs and Blu rays?

No, because the millions of standalone Blu-ray players out there won't be able to support it.
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post #2088 of 2720 Old 04-25-2015, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post
Remember the internet role for the verification for the encryption key in only required the first time a given UHD Blu-ray disc title is played on the specific player. It appears the player will retain the authorization info for this disc title in its internal flash memory and after that first playing, internet access will no longer be needed. I really don't see this scenario a being big deal as long it that same disc can then be played on other player (where internet access again will be required the first time it is played on that 2nd player) and thereafter the disc can be played on either player without further internet access.
Would be a big deal for me as I bring my movies to our cottage which doesn't have internet access but does have a 65" 4k TV. If an internet connection is required for UHD its dead in the water, something they shouldn't even bother with outside of very niche products.
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post #2089 of 2720 Old 04-25-2015, 11:01 PM
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No, because the millions of standalone Blu-ray players out there won't be able to support it.

Of course that's why it wouldn't be used, not why it couldn't be used.


If the movie industry is that concerned about illegal copying, etc. then why limit this technology to Ultra Blu ray? Make everyone buy a new player, and not just for Ultra.


I doubt it'll happen though.
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post #2090 of 2720 Old 04-25-2015, 11:07 PM
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When the PS4 and XBOX One came out it seems to me that consumers had a certain amount of leverage because there were 2 camps that could be used against each other. Once Sony came out and said they wouldn't be doing the forced internet check thing, consumers then had a choice even while still being able to get new technology and so Microsoft was pretty much forced to change their stance.

Here I don't see leverage like that and without any real boycott being organized (or semi-organized) I'm not sure a limited number of people saying they won't buy into the format if certain internet validation is required, is likely to make much difference. I don't know what is being planned, but wouldn't be surprised if it is something that is likely to make some us regret buying into the format due to frustration at some point.

I sympathize with those trying to protect their intellectual property, but that doesn't mean I'm willing to pay certain prices for their protection (like at some point not being able to play content I paid for, or not having any options for renting some content).

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post #2091 of 2720 Old 04-26-2015, 05:56 AM
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Here I don't see leverage like that and without any real boycott being organized (or semi-organized) I'm not sure a limited number of people saying they won't buy into the format if certain internet validation is required, is likely to make much difference.

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Even without the validation UHD BD is going to be such a tiny niche format that had a tall mountain to climb; if validation is required I think it will turn off such a number of people that it could be the straw that breaks the camel's back in the format's success IMO.

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post #2092 of 2720 Old 04-26-2015, 07:22 AM
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Here I don't see leverage like that and without any real boycott being organized (or semi-organized) I'm not sure a limited number of people saying they won't buy into the format if certain internet validation is required, is likely to make much difference. I don't know what is being planned, but wouldn't be surprised if it is something that is likely to make some us regret buying into the format due to frustration at some point.

I sympathize with those trying to protect their intellectual property, but that doesn't mean I'm willing to pay certain prices for their protection (like at some point not being able to play content I paid for, or not having any options for renting some content).

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post #2093 of 2720 Old 04-27-2015, 03:39 AM
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If I may dare to say so, I'm really concerned for my fellow European AV and 4K enthusiasts, which will probably have to rely on UHD Blu-ray software from the US just to be able to build up a 4K library of some sort.

The mandatory internet connection then could come like a substitute for this bothersome regional coding.

Back in the 1990's people like myself were importing US LaserDiscs like there's no tomorrow, I do not know how we influenced the overall LD sales figures, but there was a dozen stores in Paris, France which had specialized on US LDs (and where I saw the first US-DVDs on display back in 1997!).

Take away that market segment and you guys in the US have do do a helluva lot more buying to do to keep these UHD Blu-rays coming, once "we" are gone.

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post #2094 of 2720 Old 04-27-2015, 02:11 PM
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I suspect the industry will try to move towards a business model built around "recurring revenue"...toll booths...like cheap copiers needing frequent (and costly) replacement ink cartridges.
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post #2095 of 2720 Old 04-27-2015, 02:38 PM
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If that's the case, they better not charge me at all for the disc then. Charge it by usage instead.

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post #2096 of 2720 Old 04-27-2015, 06:53 PM
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I really don't think the studios ever really liked the idea of selling you a movie at a one time (relatively modest) fee where you would own that movie and be able to watch it infinitely never to pay a single dollar again for it. You always had to pay each time to watch it prior to that, or watch it once a year with commercials on a TV network which paid for it (anyone remember the Sunday Night ABC movie ?). However, it's just the way things came about when Beta was released and that business model carried onward with physical formats anyway. Eventually, they had to try and re-sell you the movie with special editions, extras, new formats, new transfers, extended/director cuts, etc.

From what I understand, with Blu-ray, they wanted to implement some sort of validation that seems likely for UHD BD, but the format war with HD DVD forced them to put it aside as time was an essence.
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post #2097 of 2720 Old 04-27-2015, 06:55 PM
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post #2098 of 2720 Old 04-27-2015, 07:09 PM
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I really don't think the studios ever really liked the idea of selling you a movie at a one time (relatively modest) fee where you would own that movie and be able to watch it infinitely never to pay a single dollar again for it. You always had to pay each time to watch it prior to that, or watch it once a year with commercials on a TV network which paid for it (anyone remember the Sunday Night ABC movie ?). However, it's just the way things came about when Beta was released and that business model carried onward with physical formats anyway. Eventually, they had to try and re-sell you the movie with special editions, extras, new formats, new transfers, extended/director cuts, etc.

From what I understand, with Blu-ray, they wanted to implement some sort of validation that seems likely for UHD BD, but the format war with HD DVD forced them to put it aside as time was an essence.

Now that I own 500 movies on Blu Ray ( and a few HD DVD's ), they will have to pry them from my cold, dead hands.....

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post #2099 of 2720 Old 04-27-2015, 07:32 PM
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I own about 1,300 bluray and at least 2,000 DVD and 100 LD left. Just try to use validation system, my UHD BD collection will be 0.

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post #2100 of 2720 Old 04-27-2015, 11:15 PM
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I still have about 1,000+ VHS tapes. ...Many are widescreen, and many are high-grade. ...Some very expensive ones. ...Should I be concerned? ...A little?
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