Blu-ray 4K UHD - coming 2015? - Page 77 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2281 of 2292 Old 05-25-2015, 06:40 AM
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^ Well, my comment is more specifically geared towards the Common File Format that UV touted as being a future feature. So far this has not seen the day of light and even the UV FAQ hasn't been updated in over a year (ran by an individual and not UV) http://uvdemystified.com/uvfaq.html

Vudu is the only service that really seemed to embrace it fully (downloads & streaming) but they are using their proprietary format. Maybe UV is waiting to update it's specs to accommodate 4K? At any rate, it will be interesting to see how the landscape unfolds over the next year.

And for the poster who didn't think UV support the lossless codecs, it does. Just not any of the object based formats but that may be coming along with 4K (pure speculation on both parts):

UltraViolet files use stereo MPEG-4 AAC LC audio (ISO/IEC 14496-3) as a required base format, with optional multi-channel AAC, HE AAC v2 (optionally with MPEG surround), Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD (MLP), DTS, DTS HD, DTS Master Audio, and DTS Express (low bit rate).
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post #2282 of 2292 Old 05-25-2015, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave Moritz View Post
I would love to know where the mandatory internet connection for uhd blu-ray is coming from because I have not seen it in any reputable articles.
Sony leaks.

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post #2283 of 2292 Old 05-25-2015, 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
Regarding Vidity, personally I feel it is the worst of both worlds.
The interesting thing about Vidity is it should make Kaleidescape and similar systems possible without the legal trouble. Vudu might be nice for streaming to mobile devices, but I've got no interest in that, I'm much more interested in being able to have a kaleidescape like system at home with full quality.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #2284 of 2292 Old 05-25-2015, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
Regarding Vidity, personally I feel it is the worst of both worlds.

Vidity has the license restrictions of internet video (license can be revoked at any time realistically/auth server turned off) combined with having to manage free memory on your devices as it is download to own instead of streaming.


I like Blu-ray 2k + UV streaming better... Blu-ray for the "owned" copy (all you have to manage is shelf space, no online auth, no disk management, no downloads) and UV for the "streams everywhere" copy (no management needed, no downloads, instant play near-BD quality).
Personally, i would much rather have a downloaded copy on my harddrive instead of streaming.
Question is, how close to a 1:1 of UHD BD quality will it be?

And another question that comes to mind is how much will a Vidity compliant storage device (external or internal hdd) cost?

It will be very interesting to see the technical specs once it's released.

Last edited by BakeApples; 05-25-2015 at 07:56 AM.
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post #2285 of 2292 Old 05-25-2015, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by BakeApples View Post
Personally, i would much rather have a downloaded copy on my harddrive instead of streaming.
Question is, how close to a 1:1 of UHD BD quality will it be?

And another question that comes to mind is how much will a Vidity compliant storage device (external or internal hdd) cost?

It will be very interesting to see the technical specs once it's released.
Well see that basically appears to be the problem. My guess is Vidity in motion will be on par with 2K BD similar to Sony's 4k streaming solution. I do not think you are going to get 50GB Vidity downloads, in fact I would not be surprised if the Vidity 4K file is identical to the one used for 4K streaming services. If the Vidity downloads are too large there will not be a big enough place to store them.

But you hit the nail on the head, storage is the issue. If a Vidity movie is 6-8GB (on the conservative side), you would need a 4TB server for 500 movies, or 8TB server for 1000 movies. Of course, it could be larger which could require double that or more.


But even if you do that, what if you'd like to access your movie collection on the go, on vacation, etc? If streaming is even allowed by the DRM from your home server, it becomes much more complex as your device is no longer streaming from a server in the cloud, but rather streaming from your home data server's upstream internet collection making a stable connection much more complex (and may be an issue with your ISP too). What if your movie collection doubles in size and your 4TB Vidity server is no longer large enough? What if they don't make a vidity server large enough to house your collection? Streaming solves these issues in a much easier fashion. The quality is a bit below BD with HDX Vudu, for instance, but it is certainly good enough IMO for 80" and below screens in all but the most demanding material.

Also, since this is an online DRM download, unlike a traditional home server once again the studio can pull the plug at anytime with Vidity to deactivate your collection. The fact that is downloaded gives an illusion of security, but the reality is the keys to make your downloads work are still housed on an online server. So there is no better collection security with Vidity vs Ultraviolet, for example.


Finally looking at longevity, I actually see Utlraviolet as having more longterm potential despite it being older and lower quality 1080p. Simply because today's youth with expendable income is interested in mobile devices and Ultraviolet completely dominates Vidity for this sector due to UV's instant-on streaming. Youth would give up a bit of quality for the much greater convenience of streaming; youth does not want to buy or setup an expensive 4k server and wire a high bandwidth home network to ensure there is smooth playback. Ultraviolet, despite its initial bumps, is a much more elegant solution for today's mobile device demands. And eventually, DECE will introduce UV 4k once it is practical and in-demand.


So for me at least: 2K Blu-ray for collection/quality purposes + 2k UV for mobility and convenience purposes is the ultimate combo of quality and portability.


Quote:
Originally Posted by stranger89
The interesting thing about Vidity is it should make Kaleidescape and similar systems possible without the legal trouble. Vudu might be nice for streaming to mobile devices, but I've got no interest in that, I'm much more interested in being able to have a kaleidescape like system at home with full quality.

Again I don't see 50GB - 100GB downloads happening (which would be "full quality" 4k). It is just too much bandwidth and would take up too much space; housing an even moderately large collection would require a ridiculous amount of TB with files that large - like 35TB for a 500 movie collection. And unlike Kaleidescape, the DRM for Vidity has the keys that make your collection work stored online. So even though it appears you "own" the download, in the end you still just own an online license to a download that can be revoked or shutdown at anytime just like a UV license, rendering the large Vidity download on your expensive server completely unplayable.

Last edited by Ruined; 05-25-2015 at 10:43 AM.
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post #2286 of 2292 Old 05-25-2015, 11:12 AM
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[QUOTE=Ruined;34485794


.......Again I don't see 50GB - 100GB downloads happening (which would be "full quality" 4k). It is just too much bandwidth and would take up too much space; housing an even moderately large collection would require a ridiculous amount of TB with files that large - like 35TB for a 500 movie collection. And unlike Kaleidescape, the DRM for Vidity has the keys that make your collection work stored online. So even though it appears you "own" the download, in the end you still just own an online license to a download that can be revoked or shutdown at anytime just like a UV license, rendering the large Vidity download on your expensive server completely unplayable.[/QUOTE]


Since I only rent and don't collect movies, and would love a download ( or stream) service that would include the full 4K ( bit/color gamut/etc) plus 3D Audio ( dts-x/atmos/auro) as would the 4K BR, other than taking some time to download with my 50/50 down/up FIOS but I doubt there are enough of us in that boat that would make it profitable to create such a service/equip.
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post #2287 of 2292 Old 05-25-2015, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
I do not think you are going to get 50GB Vidity downloads, in fact I would not be surprised if the Vidity 4K file is identical to the one used for 4K streaming services. If the Vidity downloads are too large there will not be a big enough place to store them.
If in fact their movies will be in the 6-8GB file sizes, then you might as well stream it from Netflix IMO. I think Vidity have a different plan and i wouldn`t rule out filesizes up to 50GB +
I have 100/100 fiber connection myself so it wouldn`t take any significant time to download, the big question for me is how is storage going to work and what kind of prices we can expect for the Vidity compliant storage drives.
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post #2288 of 2292 Old 05-25-2015, 12:09 PM
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If you have to have proprietary storage devices, the service is going to fail.
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post #2289 of 2292 Old 05-25-2015, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BakeApples View Post
If in fact their movies will be in the 6-8GB file sizes, then you might as well stream it from Netflix IMO. I think Vidity have a different plan and i wouldn`t rule out filesizes up to 50GB +
I have 100/100 fiber connection myself so it wouldn`t take any significant time to download, the big question for me is how is storage going to work and what kind of prices we can expect for the Vidity compliant storage drives.
You have to remember with 50GB-100GB filesizes that means there will be extremely high peak bandwidth of 70mbps+. The marketing on Vidity.com appears to indicate that you could stream a Vidity file from your home Vidity server to your tablet over wifi. That is not going to work well with 50GB filesizes IMO given the typical 2.4ghz 802.11g/n low bandwidth wifi networks most people still have due to peak bandwidth overwhelming a low bandwidth wifi connection (that often struggles with 1080p). Not to mention with some having data caps, etc, 50GB-100GB a movie might not fly. This is likely just going to be a download version of the same 6-8gb streaming files used on the 4k streaming networks, with the hope that you will collect the downloads and buy western digital and sandisk storage solutions to store them.


Western Digital and Sandisk are prominent partners for Vidity, and I can see why This is not really competition for Ultraviolet IMO, and DECE stated they would rollout a streaming 4K UV solution when demand is there and it makes sense,

Last edited by Ruined; 05-25-2015 at 12:19 PM.
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post #2290 of 2292 Old Today, 03:40 PM
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Sony leaks.

Darn those North Koreans - first " The Interview ", now this !

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post #2291 of 2292 Old Today, 05:49 PM
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Darn those North Koreans - first " The Interview ", now this !
Actually China, through North Korean proxies, but who's counting?

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
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post #2292 of 2292 Old Today, 06:53 PM
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I very much doubt UV is gaining any traction. They claim account growth, but mention absolutely nothing about usage. If usage were growing, I feel like we would be hearing something about that. We don't seem to be.

At one point they talked about how many things were loaded into accounts, but never mentioned how many were watched.

Then there is this:

"Yes, linking is required. The thing most people don’t get, ultraviolet has nothing to do with streaming or downloading. It’s just a list of movies you have access to.

A ticket is to a movie theater as ultraviolet is to vudu/flixster/target/cinemanow/etc.

Your ultraviolet account is just your collection of movie ‘tickets’. You can take your collection of tickets to any streaming/downloading partner you want, that has the features or quality you like."

It was from a Deadline article in December.

I still don't understand it despite reading it countless times. (Oh, yes, I have an Ultraviolet account by the way and have used it.)

I like the idea of high-quality digital ownership/streaming along the lines of Vidity. If it has anything in common with UV, it's DOA. If it works like iTunes, it might just succeed. Because, well, iTunes has.. 30-40 times as many accounts as UV. Probably has more movies watched every week than UV has had watched, well, ever. And despite desperately needing a UI/UX overhaul, can be understood by your parents.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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