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post #2491 of 2519 Old 06-28-2015, 01:26 PM
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So, I wonder what color the cases will be for movies? I imagine a different shade of blue to distinguish from regular Blu-ray, or will they be more elegant looking cases?


Last edited by DavidHir; 06-28-2015 at 01:32 PM.
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post #2492 of 2519 Old 06-28-2015, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post
So, I wonder what color the cases will be for movies? I imagine a different shade of blue to distinguish from regular Blu-ray, or will they be more elegant looking cases?
I think premium packaging would really help sell it, especially if there is more than a $10 premium over the bluray version of a film.
I wish they would look to the Batman Diamond Luxe edition for inspiration. I was pleasantly surprised to find it was just about the nicest disc packaging I've ever seen in twenty+ years of cd, dvd, and bluray discs I've bought, and all for only like $20 on Amazon.
As casual, undiscerning viewers move more and more to digital purchase/streaming, only the collectors are left buying discs, so they should always be catering to those who want nice packaging on their shelves.
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post #2493 of 2519 Old 06-28-2015, 05:36 PM
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What I would like is if the packaging had a quick opening pull tab similar to the one beer manufacturers manage to employ on their cans. I'd pay a buck extra for that.

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post #2494 of 2519 Old 06-28-2015, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Billybobjimbob View Post
I'm thinking $700-$900. Those that think 4k spinners will be a few hundred bucks on launch are possibly the same people that think JVC will have a laser 4k solution for $5000!!
They should be all of about $150 if they can make money selling standard Blu-Ray players for $60-70. That's a few bucks extra for a triple and quad layer optical pickup and another $60-70 for the newer more expensive LSIs, decoders, etc. that are needed for UHD and HDMI 2.0.
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post #2495 of 2519 Old 06-28-2015, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
They should be all of about $150 if they can make money selling standard Blu-Ray players for $60-70. That's a few bucks extra for a triple and quad layer optical pickup and another $60-70 for the newer more expensive LSIs, decoders, etc. that are needed for UHD and HDMI 2.0.
In around 5-6 years that price maybe feasible, but on launch? No chance my friend!

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post #2496 of 2519 Old 06-28-2015, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by jogiba View Post
I purchased the Toshiba HD DVD player and then the PS3 blu-ray player a few months later back then. I still have some HD DVD movies in un-opened red plastic cases.
You made me go look:

HD-DVD Total = 34 Unopened = 12
Blu-ray Total = 123 Unopened = 21

I really should put a moratorium on purchases until I work through my backlog.

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post #2497 of 2519 Old 06-28-2015, 08:32 PM
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Is that like never watching X out of Y channels you pay for on your set top box?

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post #2498 of 2519 Old 06-28-2015, 08:42 PM
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Heck, I think that I paid nearly $1K for my Sony S7000 DVD player when it first hit the marker. It's the one with the drop down front and a hardware switch inside for regions. It still works. I've got three HD-DVD players and plenty of movies too. I suspect that my first UHD-BD player will be an Oppo. I just hope its close to their previous prices.

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post #2499 of 2519 Old 06-28-2015, 11:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post
But the PS3, release near the same time as the BDP-S1, was only $499 and that why well off half of all Blu-ray players sold over the first several years were PS3s.
I still use mine.
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But you are not likely to see a bottom line Ultra-HD Blu-ray player for a year or two.
I'm holding out a little bit of hope that a version of the PS4 will support this format.

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post #2500 of 2519 Old 06-29-2015, 06:30 AM - Thread Starter
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I still use mine.
I'm holding out a little bit of hope that a version of the PS4 will support this format.

--Darin
The beauty of the PS3, as compared to all stand-alone Blu-ray players, was it implemented many of the functions in software that could be upgraded over time to add new capabilities. I still own and use 2 PS3s (one purchased in late 2006 and the 2nd unit in 2007).


Originally I had hoped the PS4 would be firmware upgradable to support Ultra HD Blu-rays, but I now believe there will need to be hardware changes for such things as HDMI 2.0a w/HDCP and perhaps also the HEVC decoding (although the PS4 may have adequate CPU power to do that in in software, but that's questionable). Also, we don't know for certain if the current PS4s have a compatible optical drive, or not, to read the 3 layer discs. There are some rumors that Sony will release an updated PS4 that is compatible with Ultra HD Blu-rays, but that may prove to be wishful thinking. So far the PS4 group within Sony has elected to really focus the role of the PS4 on gaming while the PS3 was supposed to be a multimedia machine, where gaming may have been the most important element, but playback of Blu-rays and media files were certainly also given a lot of attention.

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post #2501 of 2519 Old 06-29-2015, 06:38 AM
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If one doesn't care that much about audio and has a VP, the cheapest Bluray player out there is fit for a very high class projection system. I have my share of expensive Bluray players and I can see no differences using cheap Panasonics and Samsungs. I bought them to get 3D and figured I would use them just for 3D and use the more expensive ones for 2D. Wrong. I will not waste my money buying a expensive UHD Bluray player. Price will drop to say MSRP $179 within 2 years. I can wait, it will take that long for there to be enough discs that I will feel deprived rather than depraved by not having a player. I know a lot of team owners and coaches who fell the same way.

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post #2502 of 2519 Old 06-29-2015, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post
If one doesn't care that much about audio and has a VP, the cheapest Bluray player out there is fit for a very high class projection system. I have my share of expensive Bluray players and I can see no differences using cheap Panasonics and Samsungs. I bought them to get 3D and figured I would use them just for 3D and use the more expensive ones for 2D. Wrong. I will not waste my money buying a expensive UHD Bluray player. Price will drop to say MSRP $179 within 2 years. I can wait, it will take that long for there to be enough discs that I will feel deprived rather than depraved by not having a player. I know a lot of team owners and coaches who fell the same way.
Yes, other than the initial Blu-ray players, the rest are much closer in terms of PQ for Blu-ray as all they do is read 1080p/24 off the disc and pass thru - although some might trip up on a test here or there. But it's definitely unlike DVD players where there were a variety of downconversion rhythms (for non HD displays watching anamorphic discs), deinterlacing and then eventually scalers...where the PQ on those units varied widely...and many had few standards. I recall many of Kris Deering's reviews. DVD players varied so much.

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post #2503 of 2519 Old 06-29-2015, 09:00 AM
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I have the Panasonic DMP-BD-10A sitting right beside me, all boxed up ready to sell Ha hah. That was Panasonic's first player I got in 2007. It listed for USD$1299 and CDN$1499. The thing is sloooooow. I'm not sure what I'm going to do with it or if anyone will buy it (any takers??) I was considering having a "museum" area hah with the first DVD player (Toshiba) and first Blu-ray player, both of which I have sitting here taking up space (why I kept the DVD player so long is beyond me!)

Would you like an HD DVD player to complete your museum ? I've nearly replaced all of my HD DVD's with Blu Rays.

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post #2504 of 2519 Old 06-29-2015, 11:22 AM
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That's something that owners of non-HDR-capable UHD displays may have to look out for. Do they future proof their content purchases by getting the UHD+HDR version or do they buy the UHD+SDR version, which may look slightly better on their current display? Of course, this assumes that both versions of the same movie will be released.
That`s a very interesting question, and let`s say that there`s two versions of one movie title, one HDR and the other SDR, will they come on separate discs or even disc/case?

And what determines if a movie title will have HDR metadata, is this something that can be added to all current movies or only certain titles?
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post #2505 of 2519 Old 06-29-2015, 11:48 AM
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I personally would be very surprised to see HDR and SDR versions of the same movie, at least both in UHD Blu-ray.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #2506 of 2519 Old 06-29-2015, 01:01 PM
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I personally would be very surprised to see HDR and SDR versions of the same movie, at least both in UHD Blu-ray.
You're probably right. So long as the HDR version can be down-converted to SDR, I doubt they'll release both SDR and HDR versions of the same title, at least not at the same time. However, I would not be surprised if there are a few hundred titles that have already gone thru a 4K mastering, but graded in SDR (e.g. House of Cards, Breaking Bad, Lawrence of Arabia, Ghostbusters, Glory, Elysium, Captain Phillips, Karate Kid, etc.) that come out in 4K SDR on Ultra HD Blu-Ray near launch and, eventually, get remastered in HDR and re-released.
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post #2507 of 2519 Old 06-29-2015, 01:35 PM
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Would you like an HD DVD player to complete your museum ? I've nearly replaced all of my HD DVD's with Blu Rays.

Nah! I actually sold my player with 10 movies 2 years ago. I got $150 for them, too!!
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post #2508 of 2519 Old 06-29-2015, 04:37 PM
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I put my HD DVD player and 10 movies on eBay literally the day Warner announced exclusive support for Blu-ray as I knew the format war basically ended then and there.

With that said, there are a handful of movies from Universal which actually look better on HD DVD because some of the Blus were abused with noise reduction. As already mentioned, Apollo 13 was one of them before the recent Blu remaster, but there are still others.

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I guess they might be as expensive as I was paying for laser discs 30 years ago. Actually, I expect the premium for the Ultra HD Blu-rays to be similar to Blu-ray 3D releases. $30 to $40 for new releases and around $25 for older titles, or newer titles a year to two after their initial release.


The following are Ron Martin's (Panasonic) thoughts on the cost of Ultra HD Blu-ray discs:

"Media will be very price comparable to existing Blu-rays," revealed Martin. "With all new technologies, we have to make them attractive to consumers, but it does cost quite a bit to develop these systems."

"Many studios have fairly mature 4K production as many of these films are produced in 4K. I don't think it wil be a huge burden for studios."

And for the Ultra HD Blu-ray players:

"It will be high to start with, relatively speaking," Martin said. "But it won't be as severe as some launches in the past, we won't be seeing thousand dollar machines. Maybe two to three times the cost of equivalent HD players. But that will drop over time."

Source: http://www.whathifi.com/news/ultra-h...rices-revealed
Ron, you make a very good point, because if accounting for inflation, spending $30 in 1985 for a laser disc, could easily equal $100 today. I mean, just look what's happened to car prices in these last 30 years.
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Yes, other than the initial Blu-ray players, the rest are much closer in terms of PQ for Blu-ray as all they do is read 1080p/24 off the disc and pass thru - although some might trip up on a test here or there.
Some (Samsung, LG, ??) apply digital noise reduction and they do not provide a way to defeat that feature. The latest generation of cheaper BD players do not have a front panel display or S/PDIF (optical or coax) output.
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In around 5-6 years that price maybe feasible, but on launch? No chance my friend!
I didn't say I expected them to be $150. I said they could be that price for an entry level player at launch if they can make money selling normal BD players at $60-70.

Ultimately they're playing with a double edged sword. They want to make money on the players (as much as they can), but need to achieve market penetration so the format succeeds, which is driven by a low price.
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Some (Samsung, LG, ??) apply digital noise reduction and they do not provide a way to defeat that feature. The latest generation of cheaper BD players do not have a front panel display or S/PDIF (optical or coax) output.
I think the Sonys and Panasonics are probably the better low cost players to stick to.

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post #2513 of 2519 Old Yesterday, 07:01 PM
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I think the Sonys and Panasonics are probably the better low cost players to stick to.
I agree on the Panasonic (have had 3, still using a DMP-BDT220), most of the latest Sony players are not DLNA certified so they are not considered for future purchase by me.
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post #2514 of 2519 Old Today, 02:18 AM
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After reading that..I certainly hope some of the 4k spinner manufacturers implement 2hdmi outs, making provision for non hdcp 2.2 compliant processors/recievers.

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After reading that..I certainly hope some of the 4k spinner manufacturers implement 2hdmi outs, making provision for non hdcp 2.2 compliant processors/recievers.
The fact that the BDA rep didn't know of any plans by manufacturers to do this is disconcerting. I'm not really sure what he was trying to say in the second part of his response to the question. I hope he wasn't implying that the lossless audio on Ultra HD Blu-Ray discs would require HDCP 2.2 protection as well. If that's the case then having dual HDMI outs on the player wouldn't help those of us who own newer AVR's that support all of the latest features except HDCP 2.2.
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Thanks for the link. Too bad they only scratched the surface on all of the questions about this.
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Originally Posted by HockeyoAJB View Post
The fact that the BDA rep didn't know of any plans by manufacturers to do this is disconcerting.
To be fair, that's not necessarily something that would be part of the discussion for defining the spec. So if you're not working with the hardware manufacturers, it may never come up in conversation, especially not in a way formal enough to publicly "announce".

Quote:
I'm not really sure what he was trying to say in the second part of his response to the question. I hope he wasn't implying that the lossless audio on Ultra HD Blu-Ray discs would require HDCP 2.2 protection as well.
I think he was saying that the output would "downgrade" (to HD/SDR?) if HDCP 2.2 isn't present so UHD BD would still work with "legacy" equipment, just not to it's fullest extent.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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Originally Posted by HockeyoAJB View Post
The fact that the BDA rep didn't know of any plans by manufacturers to do this is disconcerting. I'm not really sure what he was trying to say in the second part of his response to the question. I hope he wasn't implying that the lossless audio on Ultra HD Blu-Ray discs would require HDCP 2.2 protection as well. If that's the case then having dual HDMI outs on the player wouldn't help those of us who own newer AVR's that support all of the latest features except HDCP 2.2.
Well I'm hopeful the first wave of spinners will offer a solution. HDfury are already on with a piece of kit that can apparently work around the hdcp 2.2 protection.

I'm pretty sure an Oppo spinner will offer twin outs.

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