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-   -   Blu-ray 4K UHD - coming 2015? (http://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-digital-hi-end-projectors-3-000-usd-msrp/1490218-blu-ray-4k-uhd-coming-2015-a.html)

Ron Jones 09-11-2013 03:25 PM

October 2015 UPDATE : A lot has happened since my original post that started this thread. There is now a Ultra-HD Blu-ray specification that has been approved and the Blu-ray Disc Association is offering a patent licensing package to manufacturers. While Samsung has already announced a Ultra HD Blu-ray player to be priced at near $500 for an early 2016 introduction and Fox Pictures has announced their first few movies titles to the released, it is expected that several of the other major consumer electronics manufacturers and the other movie studios will be announcing their first Ultra HD Blu-ray products, schedules and pricing at the Consumer Electronics Show in January 2016.


For a snapshot on what video formats the new Ultra-HD Blu-ray standard supports - check out Post #2402 - http://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post35319026

dstoe 09-11-2013 03:31 PM

USB HDMI ? biggrin.gif

Seegs108 09-11-2013 03:34 PM

Lol usb

whitetrash66 09-11-2013 03:39 PM

Hopefully all of the new hdmi 2.0 stuff works with the 4k blu rays...
I don't see how it wouldn't, I can't imagine hdmi 2.1 being right around the corner too.

kaotikr1 09-11-2013 03:40 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

Lol usb

Haha, I thought the same thing, I am like am I reading this correctly....

Ballis 09-11-2013 03:46 PM

I find it hard to believe they are gonna replace bluray with another physical format, but if they do, I predict it wont be very successful at this point. While enthusiasts may embrace it, streaming is allready becoming the mainstream choise. It will become the next LaserDisc, at best.

Craig Peer 09-11-2013 04:00 PM

Why would you buy a 4K display - especially a projector, and then hobble it with streaming? I don't stream anything - both the video and audio are inferior. So, folks like me will direct our $ to a 4K disk since we want the best picture and audio quality. Then again, I am an enthusiast............ smile.gif

Seegs108 09-11-2013 04:05 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ballis View Post

I find it hard to believe they are gonna replace bluray with another physical format, but if they do, I predict it wont be very successful at this point. While enthusiasts may embrace it, streaming is allready becoming the mainstream choise. It will become the next LaserDisc, at best.

I think you have your facts mixed up. Physical discs are still selling like hotcakes. For UHD to be streamed people need a fast internet connection. The vast majority of people do not have a fast enough connecting to get quality UHD material to their homes. This is why physical discs are still the wisest option.

mark haflich 09-11-2013 04:06 PM

But not if download to a server instead of streaming. The Red Redray can serve up a very high quality 4K signal. Of course no major studio content. the Sony server will be a source of major studio content but potentially Bluray 4K could be better. Rereading the announcement, there really is not a lot of new info. Just that hopefully there will be a standard fairly soon.

Craig Peer 09-11-2013 04:09 PM

Quote:
Physical discs are still selling like hotcakes.

I bought six new Blu rays this week alone. smile.gif

booga24 09-11-2013 04:10 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post

Why would you buy a 4K display - especially a projector, and then hobble it with streaming? I don't stream anything - both the video and audio are inferior. So, folks like me will direct our $ to a 4K disk since we want the best picture and audio quality. Then again, I am an enthusiast............ smile.gif

Craig as sales professional how much do you think 4K players would cost?

mark haflich 09-11-2013 04:13 PM

Would you also in your answer predict the Derby winner for next year?

Ron Jones 09-11-2013 04:15 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dstoe View Post

USB HDMI ? biggrin.gif
brain fart - corrected

booga24 09-11-2013 04:23 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Would you also in your answer predict the Derby winner for next year?



Revolutionary smile.gifsmile.gifsmile.gifsmile.gifsmile.gif.

Ron Jones 09-11-2013 04:27 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ballis View Post

I find it hard to believe they are gonna replace bluray with another physical format, but if they do, I predict it wont be very successful at this point. While enthusiasts may embrace it, streaming is allready becoming the mainstream choise. It will become the next LaserDisc, at best.

The physical format is probably the same as already defined for BD-XL, which has been in place for a couple of years now for data discs. Most of the modern BD burners and BD Rom drives for PCs, including those from LG, already can support the BD-XL structure with 33 GB per layer and up to 4 layers.

seanbryan 09-11-2013 04:30 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ballis View Post

I find it hard to believe they are gonna replace bluray with another physical format, but if they do, I predict it wont be very successful at this point. While enthusiasts may embrace it, streaming is allready becoming the mainstream choise. It will become the next LaserDisc, at best.

They will not be "replacing blu-ray". They will be augmenting it by adding 4K. Just like 3D was added to the format.

And like with 3D, old players won't play it. If you want it you'll need to buy a new player. And eventually it will be just another feature on all players.

If you're not interested, it wouldn't effect you.

Sounds good to me.

Ron Jones 09-11-2013 04:31 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Would you also in your answer predict the Derby winner for next year?

The Derby winner will be the person that bets on the fastest horse, over 1 1/4 miles, to win. However, if you are watching in 4K UHD streaming video over a low speed internet connection then "The Most Exciting Two Minutes In Sports" may take 60 minutes (with many pauses) giving your bookie time to skip town and then your bookie becomes the winner, unless the law catches up before he can get away. Too complicated to even think about. Just drink a mint julep on Derby day and relax.


.

Craig Peer 09-11-2013 04:35 PM

I'd bet some premium over Blu Ray initially, eventually lowing to current Blu Ray prices ( and Blu Ray falling into where DVD's are now - one foot in the grave ).

Ron Jones 09-11-2013 04:39 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post

I'd bet some premium over Blu Ray initially, eventually lowing to current Blu Ray prices ( and Blu Ray falling into where DVD's are now - one foot in the grave ).

My guess is the BD 4K movies will be sold like BD 3D's are today. An extra few dollars ($5 to $10) premium for a package that includes both a standard BD plus the BD-4K discs (and maybe also a DVD copy, etc.).

Craig Peer 09-11-2013 04:45 PM

The players will cost more initially I'll bet. I was there for the Great HD DVD / Blu Ray Format War - thank goodness we seem to be avoiding that fiasco again !!

RonF 09-11-2013 04:50 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ballis View Post

I find it hard to believe they are gonna replace bluray with another physical format, but if they do, I predict it wont be very successful at this point. While enthusiasts may embrace it, streaming is allready becoming the mainstream choise. It will become the next LaserDisc, at best.

Debbie Downer. And I think and so bleeping hope you are dead wrong. We need highest quality physical media. Even if just for the HT degenerates and niche markets. It would be backward compatible of course so no "replacing" the format. Progressive DVD players added to the quality we got from the first interlaced players, etc.

Seegs108 09-11-2013 04:51 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post

The players will cost more initially I'll bet. I was there for the Great HD DVD / Blu Ray Format War - thank goodness we seem to be avoiding that fiasco again !!

This time it's a streaming versus disc battle. The choice is easy if you ask me, but I think convenience will win over quality ultimately frown.gif

Ron Jones 09-11-2013 04:57 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post

The players will cost more initially I'll bet. I was there for the Great HD DVD / Blu Ray Format War - thank goodness we seem to be avoiding that fiasco again !!

Perhaps 4K support will be offered in new top-of-the-line models next year from the likes of Sony and Panasonic, but probably will still sell for under $500 (maybe well under street price).

booga24 09-11-2013 05:04 PM

I am in the market for Oppo 103 so if we going to see 4K players next it would be advisable to wait and upgrade next year for future proofing.

zombie10k 09-11-2013 05:07 PM

thankfully this is happening, now 4K finally has a chance of surviving, imo it was going to be DOA if they relied on downloads/streaming. too many compromises would have to be made to compensate for the wide variances in ISP's.

people still want to buy a movie and put it on their shelf.

didn't Mark say hell no, there will never be a 4K BD??

Craig Peer 09-11-2013 05:11 PM

Quote:
people still want to buy a movie and put it on their shelf.

That would be me. smile.gif

Ballis 09-11-2013 05:23 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

I think you have your facts mixed up. Physical discs are still selling like hotcakes. For UHD to be streamed people need a fast internet connection. The vast majority of people do not have a fast enough connecting to get quality UHD material to their homes. This is why physical discs are still the wisest option.

In 1999, CDs were selling like hotcakes. Quality was pretty good. But Sony and Philips wanted more. After all, people did have crazy stereos, even back then. Why not let those shine? So they created the SACD. Now it was off to a slow start, and to make matters worse, two years later came iTunes, and 128 kbps audiofiles was all the rage.

Fast forward to present day. We have bluray players that cater to 99% of the population (screens under 80") with more than sufficient quality. We dont have to wait two years for streaming or digital downloads, it is allready here. Now why would we bother getting a new bluray player, and buying the same movies again?

I dont see that happening.

Seegs108 09-11-2013 05:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ballis View Post

In 1999, CDs were selling like hotcakes. Quality was pretty good. But Sony and Philips wanted more. After all, people did have crazy stereos, even back then. Why not let those shine? So they created the SACD. Now it was off to a slow start, and to make matters worse, two years later came iTunes, and 128 kbps audiofiles was all the rage.

Fast forward to present day. We have bluray players that cater to 99% of the population (screens under 80") with more than sufficient quality. We dont have to wait two years for streaming or digital downloads, it is allready here. Now why would we bother getting a new bluray player, and buying the same movies again?

I dont see that happening.

You still need a device to stream the content on. Whether it be a special TV or set top box of some type it's basically the same thing as buying a disc player. So your options are to buy a streaming box/new TV with the decoding software built in or buy a UHD Blu-ray player. Also, streaming will not meet or come close to the quality the disc will bring. Why take a step back? Yes, people love Netflix streaming and the like, but their internet speed IS NOT FAST ENOUGH for streaming UHD content. Most likely UHD streaming files will be 15GB+. Most 20mbps or slower internet connection (which is a lot faster than most people have) is not fast enough to stream a movie within that that time given it's a 2 hour movie. it would take closer to 3 hours to download/stream a file at that size and that's with an internet connection 75% of Americans don't have. If you think they're going to pull off even decent quality UHD content at less than 15GB per movie with a surround sound track, you're insane. As Mark has pointed out, it will most likely be a download service because of this. Until we switch our infrastructure over to fiber people aren't going to have a fast enough internet connection for what you want. If it's a download service and people have to wait 4-5hours for it to download, why not drive to your local drug store and rent the UHD Blu-ray from RedBox for a couple bucks and watch it. You could go rent it, bring it back and watch it in the time it would take you to just download it.

Ballis 09-11-2013 05:54 PM

I think you missed the point I was trying to make. When SACD came along, people chose convenience over quality and later made iTunes the worlds biggest record store.

With Bluray being as good as it is, 4K will only be benefitial to those with very large screens. Granted, I have that myself, and I gather most of you guys do to, hanging out on this forum. But most people dont, and wont benefit much or at all from 4K. So why would they bother with another physical format, when they can remain perfectly happy with 1080p or even 720p directly into their SmartTV NetFlix app?

Even if they need another device, download is still more convenient. Where I live (Oslo, Norway), Videostores are so rare, obtaining physical discs is getting increasingly difficult. I find it hard to believe people will go out of their way to obtain the 4K version of any movie when they can just turn on their 99$ Apple TV and stream it in 1080p instead. Unless they are one of the few with a 100" screen.

Introducing a new physical format at this point is something I think will be very difficult. Sonys "download to a box" sollution could have been a great alternative had it not been limited to use with their TVs.

Craig Peer 09-11-2013 06:10 PM

I that case, Blu Ray and 1080p displays will chug along, and 4K disks / displays and 3D will remain the red headed stepchildren - only time will tell.
Quote:
Videostores are so rare, obtaining physical discs is getting increasingly difficult

Who goes to a video store? I order on Amazon, and even re-sell some disks there. Heck, I order Blu Rays not available in the US from Amazon UK, CA and FR.


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