Official Epson EH-TW 9200 5030UB Owners' Thread - Page 106 - AVS Forum
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post #3151 of 3378 Old 05-16-2014, 02:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Viche View Post


Having had more time with your projectors, can you give me your impressions of how games look in fast processing mode? I realize that games for something like a PS3 will be low enough in resolution as to not reveal a huge difference, but I am thinking down the road. Once developers get used to the new systems, I'm expecting most games to run in 1080p, and then of course there are PC games that are even more crisp and detailed. If you wouldn't watch a movie in fine mode, how can fine mode be okay for start-of-the-art videogames now and in the future?

 

Sorry, I don't do games so can't help.

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post #3152 of 3378 Old 05-16-2014, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Viche View Post


Having had more time with your projectors, can you give me your impressions of how games look in fast processing mode? I realize that games for something like a PS3 will be low enough in resolution as to not reveal a huge difference, but I am thinking down the road. Once developers get used to the new systems, I'm expecting most games to run in 1080p, and then of course there are PC games that are even more crisp and detailed. If you wouldn't watch a movie in fine mode, how can fine mode be okay for start-of-the-art videogames now and in the future?

Actually, 1080p games don't look horrible on Fast mode, they just don't look their best. If gaming is a high priority for someone, then this is probably not the projector for that person.
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post #3153 of 3378 Old 05-16-2014, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by usualsuspects View Post

Actually, 1080p games don't look horrible on Fast mode, they just don't look their best. If gaming is a high priority for someone, then this is probably not the projector for that person.

That's what stinks....this projector is just about perfect in every other way for me. Someone suggested a lower end JVC in another forum, but lag on that, from what I remember is horrible. AN AVSForums sales person suggested a B-stock Sony.... Sigh. I'm holding out hope that Epson will tweak firmware or next year's version to improve the look of fast mode. frown.gif
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post #3154 of 3378 Old 05-16-2014, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Viche View Post

That's what stinks....this projector is just about perfect in every other way for me. Someone suggested a lower end JVC in another forum, but lag on that, from what I remember is horrible. AN AVSForums sales person suggested a B-stock Sony.... Sigh. I'm holding out hope that Epson will tweak firmware or next year's version to improve the look of fast mode. frown.gif

I consistently hear that Sony SXRD PJ's of recent vintage are the low input lag champs. Don't know what specific models are best. I also am hoping for a firmware fix for fast mode, but I have learned never to hold out hope on firmware fixes for things.
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post #3155 of 3378 Old 05-16-2014, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by usualsuspects View Post

I consistently hear that Sony SXRD PJ's of recent vintage are the low input lag champs. Don't know what specific models are best. I also am hoping for a firmware fix for fast mode, but I have learned never to hold out hope on firmware fixes for things.

I've heard the same. I think I also read that Sony's lens optics are inferior to the Epson's, though. For those of you who chose the 5030, was there a reason, other than cost, that you picked it over the Sony HW50ES or HW55ES?
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post #3156 of 3378 Old 05-16-2014, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Viche View Post

I've heard the same. I think I also read that Sony's lens optics are inferior to the Epson's, though. For those of you who chose the 5030, was there a reason, other than cost, that you picked it over the Sony HW50ES or HW55ES?

Cost was a factor for me, did not want to spend too much for another bulb projector when LED/Laser appears close. Price/performance was the determining factor, hoping to have this PJ for a couple of years and switch to LED/Laser.
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post #3157 of 3378 Old 05-17-2014, 02:04 PM
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Just installed a 5030UBE and I cannot correct the sound lag, it does appear that setting frame interpolation from off to high helps but the words still noticeably lap the lip reading. Using a newer HDMI cable going from my A/V receiver into the wireless transmitter. And have a HDMI cable coming out of the transmitter going to a flat screen and no lag on the flat screen.  Has anyone else experienced this?  I replaced a wired Panny with no sound lag issues using the same inputs?  Epson tech support is closed Saturday even though their website says open. The wireless signal shows 100% and the picture quality is top notch but on a 119" screen just makes the out of sync sound even more noticeable.

 

Any suggestions?

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post #3158 of 3378 Old 05-17-2014, 02:58 PM
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5030 needs lots of audio delay in the receiver when processing is not set to fast. Supposedly: low/med/high FI introduce the same amount of lag, 11 frames / 183ms.
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post #3159 of 3378 Old 05-17-2014, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viche View Post

I've heard the same. I think I also read that Sony's lens optics are inferior to the Epson's, though. For those of you who chose the 5030, was there a reason, other than cost, that you picked it over the Sony HW50ES or HW55ES?

I can't speak for everyone else but the lower quality optics is what made me make the switch to a 5030ub. I had the Sony HW50, and with Reality Creation on it looks outstanding on pure sources, but on most source material even most blu-rays there was just too much image noise for me. It bothered the hell out of me, and if you disabled RC on noisy blu-rays the picture gets blurry. I couldn't handle it anymore. To each his own, everyone is different.
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post #3160 of 3378 Old 05-17-2014, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KCAC View Post
 

Just installed a 5030UBE and I cannot correct the sound lag, it does appear that setting frame interpolation from off to high helps but the words still noticeably lap the lip reading. Using a newer HDMI cable going from my A/V receiver into the wireless transmitter. And have a HDMI cable coming out of the transmitter going to a flat screen and no lag on the flat screen.  Has anyone else experienced this?  I replaced a wired Panny with no sound lag issues using the same inputs?  Epson tech support is closed Saturday even though their website says open. The wireless signal shows 100% and the picture quality is top notch but on a 119" screen just makes the out of sync sound even more noticeable.

 

Any suggestions?

As "usualsuspects" said, hopefully your receiver has an audio delay you've just never had to mess with.  Have a looksie through your receiver menu's, probably an "audio delay" setting (measured in ms) in there somewhere.  I believe the last 3 receivers I owned had one built in. 

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post #3161 of 3378 Old 05-18-2014, 01:06 AM
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Another new owner here just upgraded from my trusty Panny AE-4000u. I spent about 6 hrs with it so far running calibration disks and trying
out various settings and recommendation from this forum and other professional review sites. This evening I went thru about 3 hrs straight
watching a movie and one thing that worries me is that my lamp counter seems to be not increasing and still shows 0.
Did anyone experience this or do I have an issue specific to my unit?
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post #3162 of 3378 Old 05-18-2014, 01:33 AM
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wont increase till you hit 10 hrs cheers
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post #3163 of 3378 Old 05-18-2014, 01:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by termite View Post

Another new owner here just upgraded from my trusty Panny AE-4000u. I spent about 6 hrs with it so far running calibration disks and trying
out various settings and recommendation from this forum and other professional review sites. This evening I went thru about 3 hrs straight
watching a movie and one thing that worries me is that my lamp counter seems to be not increasing and still shows 0.
Did anyone experience this or do I have an issue specific to my unit?
Hey guys I just got my new 120" fixed screen coming from a 110"' motorised screen and what a change watched couple movies last night and this looks stunning.
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post #3164 of 3378 Old 05-18-2014, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usualsuspects View Post

5030 needs lots of audio delay in the receiver when processing is not set to fast. Supposedly: low/med/high FI introduce the same amount of lag, 11 frames / 183ms.

 

Thanks to you and AVC2.....I was about to correct the lag by setting A/V Sync on my receiver to a minus 330msec. However this causes the sound to be off when I switch to my flat screen TV which is mounted behind my projector screen, so I have to again go into receiver and reset the A/V Sync back to zero.  I have it figured out but no one else in the family will be able to do so. In addition, another issue is the wireless connection goes into reconnect mode periodically, I do not know if it loses the signal or what, but when it reconnects it has somehow wiped out the settings in my A/V receiver and I have to go back into that menu and change back to a minus 330msecs. The UBe has a built in signal detector and it always reads 100% on signal strength, the projector is about 16 ft from transmitter with clear line of sight.  I note a recent review on Amazon on the 5030UBe cited this same issue with the wireless transmitter periodically reconnecting and recommended buyers skip the wireless.  I had already ordered my UBe before I read that. Is there any chance that the wireless transmitter needs a HDMI 2.0 input cable?

 

I just hooked up the 5030UBe Friday and have not been able to call Epson tech support, but so far I am thinking I should have bought the non wireless version.  Does the UB also have sound lag issues or does the HDMI cable eliminate the lag?  I replaced a wired Panasonic projector with the Epson and the Panny did not need any A/V sync adjustment and was in perfect sync with my flat screen with the A/V set at the factory default of zero.

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post #3165 of 3378 Old 05-18-2014, 08:18 AM
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330ms is lots, sounds like wireless is introducing additional lag. A HDMI 2.0 cable might help, but I doubt it is a "2.0" issue. The HDMI cable might be bad/marginal, so trying a different one can't hurt. Also, you might try moving the HDMI transmitter a little. Don't worry about moving it a little farther away - should not matter at that distance. Radio transmitters/receivers can end up in "null spots" where destructive interference makes them less reliable, often moving them just a foot or less in some random direction helps.
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post #3166 of 3378 Old 05-18-2014, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chriso1671 View Post

wont increase till you hit 10 hrs cheers

Great thanks! smile.gif

I'm still trying to adjust to the differences coming from a Panasonic for years.. My screen is 120" 16:9 and I'm watching from about 15'.
Projector installed at the minimum zoom distance to fill my screen. (less than 12' from screen)

Compared to Panny this looks a lot sharper but I feel it still needs some more adjustments to get it right and make it look more "film-like".

I'm also a but confused about how the "panel alignment" feature works.. (never had a projector with this"

Can someone explain what the alignment grid looks like after this?
(Before and after pictures of the grid would be very helpful)
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post #3167 of 3378 Old 05-18-2014, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usualsuspects View Post

330ms is lots, sounds like wireless is introducing additional lag. A HDMI 2.0 cable might help, but I doubt it is a "2.0" issue. The HDMI cable might be bad/marginal, so trying a different one can't hurt. Also, you might try moving the HDMI transmitter a little. Don't worry about moving it a little farther away - should not matter at that distance. Radio transmitters/receivers can end up in "null spots" where destructive interference makes them less reliable, often moving them just a foot or less in some random direction helps.

 

I moved the transmitter to the center of the screen no difference still need a minus 330msec, so went down to BB and they did not even have a HDMI2.0 in the entire store, so they talked me into their "best" non 2.0, an audioquest chocolate, with a 1 meter cable costing $100.  Absolutely no difference, still have to crank it to the minus 330msecs to sync it and it still disconnects ever so often and takes a couples of minutes to reconnect and then I have to go back into my AV menu and change the settings each time as my receiver must sense it through the HDMI connection  This is a real pain.....My Opinion so far, is the same as the latest customer review on Amazon...SKIP THE WIRELESS model if at all possible. He was having the same reconnect issues as I am.  I spent far too much time on this one issue so far and have not even tried 3D mode yet, so for anyone who has not already bought a new projector.......again, it seems pretty clear to me, I really like the projector but.......AVOID THE WIRELESS VERSION IF POSSIBLE!. 

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post #3168 of 3378 Old 05-18-2014, 08:10 PM
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I've watched Godzilla in an IMAX cinema in Malaysia. I'm glad that the black level of my Epson TW8200 (5030 without the THX mode) is on par with the IMAX projection system.
I'm wondering: Is the black level in cinema installation NOT that deep? I rarely go to cinema.
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post #3169 of 3378 Old 05-18-2014, 11:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KCAC View Post

I moved the transmitter to the center of the screen no difference still need a minus 330msec, so went down to BB and they did not even have a HDMI2.0 in the entire store, so they talked me into their "best" non 2.0, an audioquest chocolate, with a 1 meter cable costing $100.  Absolutely no difference, still have to crank it to the minus 330msecs to sync it and it still disconnects ever so often and takes a couples of minutes to reconnect and then I have to go back into my AV menu and change the settings each time as my receiver must sense it through the HDMI connection  This is a real pain.....My Opinion so far, is the same as the latest customer review on Amazon...SKIP THE WIRELESS model if at all possible. He was having the same reconnect issues as I am.  I spent far too much time on this one issue so far and have not even tried 3D mode yet, so for anyone who has not already bought a new projector.......again, it seems pretty clear to me, I really like the projector but.......AVOID THE WIRELESS VERSION IF POSSIBLE!. 
I have the wireless version and it works great I run 1 hdmi to receiver and 1 to wireless from my oppo so I can get 3d sound as well and I had to adjust it a bit but no where near 330ms also before I got my fixed screen I had my 63"' plasma behind my motorised screen hooked up to the wireless output and would use the oppo for both and the plasma and the pj would be exactly the same the only thing that is out is my HD set top box by about 60ms just haven't dialled it in yet so I think maybe its your receiver as my Yamaha is exactly the same if I am using the plasma or PJ hope that helps but I love the wireless.
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post #3170 of 3378 Old 05-19-2014, 12:03 AM
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Hello. I have an Epson 5030 projector. I was having reflections problems in my living room (projecting at white wall) so I bought a Elite Cinegrey 5D and yesterday I build it. The screen did a very good job at eliminating the reflections. I placed the projector in my coffee table. Said coffee table is positioned at the far left of the screen and using lens shifting I managed to position the image at the center of the screen although the image looks a little trapezoid like. My MAIN problem is that while been seated at the exact center of the screen, is like I have to types of screens! From the center to the left (type 1 screen) I get a BRIGHTER image than from the center to the right (type 2 screen) which produces a DULLER image. It's very disturbing to me.

It was late at night and I tried positioning the coffee table at the exact center of the screen. I was very tired but it seems to me that while doing this the difference in brightness was gone or it was less noticeable. To have the projector at the exact center I would need to do a wall job. It would be frustrating doing that and having the same result. I need to do some more experiments but would much appreciate help from you.

I just need some help because I am at lost. The trapezoid shape is another problem but guess I could live with it if there is no solution. The one side bright the other side dull I cannot live with it. Hope there is a solution. I am sitting at 13 feet from the screen and cant get further. Screen size is 135" but actually have been using at less than that almost at 120-115. Doesnt matter the size, the brightness / dull problem is the same.

Thanks a lot really!
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post #3171 of 3378 Old 05-19-2014, 12:04 AM
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Well, I'm not returning my projector but even though I tried the screen with black out curtains covering my windows at the left side the problem still there. Now I have done all the experimenting and the conclusion is: no matter where I place the projector (far to the left or to the center) if I seat exactly at the center of the screen or to the right of the screen from the center to the left is brighter than from the center to the right. Only if I seat toward the right of the screen all the screen now looks the same level of brightness as the "dull" side, I mean, everything has the same low brightness I see at the right side when I seat to the center.

I positioned the projector toward a white wall and now the picture looks at the same exact brightness so it's a fact that it's the screen that is causing said effect. The screen cost me +800 so I guess I will have to live with it. frown.gif

Wonder if I bought a Da Lite High Contrast Matte White if I would have the same problem or not that problem but the problem of reflections.

This Cinegrey 5D could have been the perfect screen!
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post #3172 of 3378 Old 05-19-2014, 12:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by termite View Post

Great thanks! smile.gif

I'm still trying to adjust to the differences coming from a Panasonic for years.. My screen is 120" 16:9 and I'm watching from about 15'.
Projector installed at the minimum zoom distance to fill my screen. (less than 12' from screen)

Compared to Panny this looks a lot sharper but I feel it still needs some more adjustments to get it right and make it look more "film-like".

I'm also a but confused about how the "panel alignment" feature works.. (never had a projector with this"

Can someone explain what the alignment grid looks like after this?
(Before and after pictures of the grid would be very helpful)
My convergence was spot on so I have not messed with the panel alignment I heard it can do more harm than good, someone here will have better knowledge about that than me but if your convergence looks good I wouldn't mess with it mine is so close to perfect I have left it and mine is super sharp.
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post #3173 of 3378 Old 05-19-2014, 04:59 AM
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My convergence if off a little, but not by more than 1/2 pixel in any direction. I did experiment with the convergence control, but did not like what it did. It made test patterns look worse, and the resulting subjective image quality was not any better than with convergence control off. The problem with the convergence control is that all it does (all it can do - same as all projectors ) is move color from one pixel to another. Supposedly 8 steps in any direction is equal to 1 full pixel on the 5030. If I had convergence that was off by more than 1/2 pixel and it was fairly consistent across the screen, then I could see how adjusting by 1 full pixel (8 steps) in the opposite direction for that color would be a benefit. This is exactly the same situation I had on my previous projector: Sony VW60. The convergence control was not of any use to me because I did not have significant ( > 1/2 pixel) convergence issues. YMMV.
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post #3174 of 3378 Old 05-19-2014, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chriso1671 View Post


I have the wireless version and it works great I run 1 hdmi to receiver and 1 to wireless from my oppo so I can get 3d sound as well and I had to adjust it a bit but no where near 330ms also before I got my fixed screen I had my 63"' plasma behind my motorised screen hooked up to the wireless output and would use the oppo for both and the plasma and the pj would be exactly the same the only thing that is out is my HD set top box by about 60ms just haven't dialled it in yet so I think maybe its your receiver as my Yamaha is exactly the same if I am using the plasma or PJ hope that helps but I love the wireless.


Christo,

 

Thanks for the reply. I have not been able to talk to Epson Tech yet as they are no longer open on Sat.  I do not think it is my receiver, a newer Onkyo.  I had the last of the Mitsubishi rear projectors attached to it, no lag, I have now replaced that with a large Samsung it has no lag and my HD Panasonic wired projector, which I replaced with UBe,  had no sound lag. If I could dial in the A/V sync adjustment and forget it, it would be no issue other than when I wanted to watch the TV hooked to the same receiver.   However, the projector, which I have only had 3 days, has gone into a reconnect mode every night at least twice, when it does that, it interrupts whatever you are watching for 2-3 mins and the receiver senses it and defaults back to zero sync settings requiring me to find the remote in the dark and have to go back and reset the sync. The transmitter is about 16 ft directly in front of the projector, clear line of sight, I have moved it, I put a high end HDMI cable from receiver to the transmitter and the wireless signal is always 100%.  Yet I have both the reconnect issues and the sound lag.  So, maybe something is wrong with my projector/transmitter.

 

Anyone know what kind of signal is transmitted?  I have dual band Wi-Fi with extenders with a strong signal throughout the house, plus have Iris with wireless cameras and many other wireless devices attached, wireless house phones etc.

Could all of the other wireless devices somehow be interfering with the UBe wireless signal?  This picture is fantastic I am using a Da-Lite Progressive HD .09 tensioned screen which seems a good match and I love the projector but should have gone with the wired  UB, just saying.

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post #3175 of 3378 Old 05-19-2014, 06:43 AM
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My power outlet is just 8 inches away from the back of my projector so I was going to order a much shorter power cord. Would a 16 or 18 AWG cord be ok?
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post #3176 of 3378 Old 05-19-2014, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by termite View Post

Great thanks! smile.gif

I'm still trying to adjust to the differences coming from a Panasonic for years.. My screen is 120" 16:9 and I'm watching from about 15'.
Projector installed at the minimum zoom distance to fill my screen. (less than 12' from screen)

Compared to Panny this looks a lot sharper but I feel it still needs some more adjustments to get it right and make it look more "film-like".

Could the main difference causing the increased sharpness and decreased film-likeness be the Panasonic's smoothing effect that eliminates the inter-pixel spaces?

What other differences are you noticing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by chriso1671 View Post

Hey guys I just got my new 120" fixed screen coming from a 110"' motorised screen and what a change watched couple movies last night and this looks stunning.

Was it just going to a larger screen that was stunning?
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post #3177 of 3378 Old 05-19-2014, 08:22 AM
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Could the main difference causing the increased sharpness and decreased film-likeness be the Panasonic's smoothing effect that eliminates the inter-pixel spaces?

Yes I'm begining to feel that is part of it also. For example I see still images and text look razer sharp with 5030UB. I guess what I want is to
minimize that "digital-look" in film. (Panny never had that)
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post #3178 of 3378 Old 05-19-2014, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by termite View Post

Yes I'm begining to feel that is part of it also. For example I see still images and text look razer sharp with 5030UB. I guess what I want is to
minimize that "digital-look" in film. (Panny never had that)

There was always a big divide between people who thought the Smooth effect was a good thing (rendering a more film-like image) vs a bad thing (blurring details). There were entire thread full of people trying to prove their point with screen captures. That was the single issue that stopped me from buying what was probably one of the last clearance 4000s in the country. The 5030 is the first projector to have me interested again in purchasing something.

So did I make a good decision? Which do you think is more important, the added sharpness or the film-like image?
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post #3179 of 3378 Old 05-19-2014, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by darrix View Post

I think I may have found the solution. In XBMC > Settings > Video > Playback, I set "Sync Playback to display" enabled and selected "Audio clock" under A/V sync method (otherwise it wont be watchable). All smooth after all those config changes!

Well, these settings did not really work that well after few more tests that I did. It would still stutter occasionally (maybe every 30 seconds to 1 minute intervals). So did some more research and tried several configs and here's what finally worked for me:

Video > Playback > Adjust Display Refresh Rate to Match Video > on start/stop (this adjusts the projector's refresh rate to whatever the refresh rate on the movie (24p, etc)
Video > Pause during refresh rate change > 2 seconds (to prevent stuttering when the video plays, you can play with different values here)
Video > Playback > Sync Playback to display > disabled
Video > Acceleration > Render Method > Auto detect
Video > Acceleration > Decoding Method > Software (this was a must for me, If I choose Hardware acceleration, the videos would stutter/choppy (I don't know why))

Hope this helps anyone who's using XBMC.
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post #3180 of 3378 Old 05-19-2014, 10:29 AM
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I don't use xbmc but I use plex ALOT to watch my movie collection. Just curious how many 5030 owners out there use plex for viewing movies on their projectors and what their impressions are with it? Of course the quality of the content material in this case being the digital copy of the movie will play a big part in how it looks. So far watching most things on my samsung 55 inch LED things look and work great. Just hoping I have the same results with using a projector. I've never owned one before and when my build is done this will be my first one.

Thanks in advance.
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Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

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