Official Epson EH-TW 9200 5030UB Owners' Thread - Page 121 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3601 of 5898 Old 09-26-2014, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Richie3000 View Post
Hi Guys,
For some time, I have been reading this very informative thread on the Epson 5030, and based on wealth of information here, I took the plunge and bought the Epson 5030.
This is my 4th cinema projector in 11 years, and coming from DLP 720p is a huge upgrade in so many ways.

My previous projector was the Acer H5360, which was bought for mainly for 3D and 3D was one of main reasons for choosing the Epson (along with contrast of course!).

Having played with several 3D movie titles, there is noticeable crosstalk and it seems to be a problem with moving objects and shadows at the incorrect depth.
For instance the zebra on Life of Pi makes your eyes bleed..
The effect is like a poorly optimised 3D Vision game, when menus and shadows appear at the incorrect depth etc.
Have tried with both the Epson and Samsung 3D glasses and the effect is the same. Also the 3 colour modes.
My screen is an older 92inch 1.8 gain GrayWolf II, and the proj is linked directly to the PC using a CL3 rated Ethernet HDMI cable.

I have not calibrated the Epson yet, and am hoping that it’s simply user error (highly likely). Could panel alignment be the problem?
Right now, the micky mouse Acer H5360 is beating the Epson at 3D, and I’d dearly love to chuck Acer with it’s simply terrible contrast!

Does anyone have suggestions please? Thanks in advance and also for maintaining this excellent thread.

Richard
If it's a panel alignment problem, you'll see it in 2D mode and be able to adjust it out with the menu. Put the grid up. Do the panels look out of alignment?

My guess is, you've been looking at 3D on a DLP projector for a while, and the crosstalk on an LCD projector stands out like a sore thumb to you. Unfortunately, that's the nature of the beast. Hugo 3D is going to have major crosstalk issues for you in places, and Tangled 3D, less so. Use Tangled as a benchmark disc, and use the 3D adjustments to make it look as good as possible for you, and that's as good as it's going to get.
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post #3602 of 5898 Old 09-26-2014, 10:01 AM
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Hi Greg,
Great suggestions, thanks for this information.
For the panel alignment, yes viewing 2D movies is fine, and also small text on Windows 8 shows well (albeit appearing like a non-native resolution LCD monitor), which probably means it’s not alignment.
Your idea about the crosstalk sounds very plausible. Having used the DLP so much, even the terrible rainbow effect became less noticeable over time!
Also the Epson runs at 24 fps in 3D films, rather than 120hz of the DLP using NVidia’s 3D Vision.

I did wonder if it was motion blur, which I have noticed in 2D movies too, and have seen other 5030 owners mention previously in this thread, and maybe 24fps amplifies this in 3D.

On a separate issue (sorry), I need to upgrade my screen to a retractable 120”/125” and was wondering if white 1.1 gain is the way to go, rather than high gain silver/grey.
Using THX gives great contrast, but in dark scenes much of the image isn’t there. Was watching Edge of Tomorrow, and had to switch back to Cinema Mode, as you couldn't see what was going on.
This was in a totally dark room, proj 13ft from 92” screen sitting 11ft away.

Ordering Tangled now.. Thanks again.
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post #3603 of 5898 Old 09-26-2014, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by prince.nothing View Post
I agree with Richard. This is a very helpful thread, indeed.
I'm planning to buy the 5030 next week, and wanted to know if its worth paying the $500 for the Best Buy Geek Squad "protection plan"? Thanks in advance.
Personally, I would not buy any "extended warranties" (actually they are insurance contracts from third parties). You have a two year warranty from Epson (a good one with quick replacement). If you pay with an amex card, you get an additional year (I think - read the fine print). You can get insurance contracts after the fact, so why pay up front for one when you might never need it, and it can't do anything for you in the first two or three years?
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post #3604 of 5898 Old 09-26-2014, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Richie3000 View Post
Hi Greg,
Great suggestions, thanks for this information.
For the panel alignment, yes viewing 2D movies is fine, and also small text on Windows 8 shows well (albeit appearing like a non-native resolution LCD monitor), which probably means it’s not alignment.
Your idea about the crosstalk sounds very plausible. Having used the DLP so much, even the terrible rainbow effect became less noticeable over time!
Also the Epson runs at 24 fps in 3D films, rather than 120hz of the DLP using NVidia’s 3D Vision.

I did wonder if it was motion blur, which I have noticed in 2D movies too, and have seen other 5030 owners mention previously in this thread, and maybe 24fps amplifies this in 3D.

On a separate issue (sorry), I need to upgrade my screen to a retractable 120”/125” and was wondering if white 1.1 gain is the way to go, rather than high gain silver/grey.
Using THX gives great contrast, but in dark scenes much of the image isn’t there. Was watching Edge of Tomorrow, and had to switch back to Cinema Mode, as you couldn't see what was going on.
This was in a totally dark room, proj 13ft from 92” screen sitting 11ft away.

Ordering Tangled now.. Thanks again.

Glad I could help. If it's an interesting subject for you, the surf documentary Ultimate Wave Tahiti is my go to reference for 3D overall. It looks fantastic on both LCD and DLP 3D, and has both live action and cgi 3D sequences of different kinds of subject matter. It was shot natively in 3D with very high end equipment.
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post #3605 of 5898 Old 09-29-2014, 06:59 AM
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Ok update time, as I didn't want to be one of those people who only post when they have a problem, but when things are working stay in the shadows.
This is very unfair for the product and the forum, where others, like myself, may be reading this and anxiously deciding whether to take the plunge and buy the 5030.

Having thought the 3D was bit of a let-down, due to really bad crosstalk, ghosting and motion blur, I spent last night running through 3D settings (helpfully found in this forum).
Also was about to order that Oppo Blu-Ray player with Darbie [OPPO BDP-103D], as my Epson 5030UB plays via a gaming desktop PC, anything to get the precious 3D working!
I’m not 100% sure, but after I did a fresh install of NVidia graphics drivers, suddenly the 3D is just perfect, and well above my high expectations for this projector.
Basically I removed the 3D Vision component, and then reinstalled 3D Vision (you need this to get 3D TV working). I don’t have the 3D Vision emitter attached, and didn’t when I first plugged in the Epson, but it appears there may have been a legacy 3D driver conflict here.

Wow, suddenly everything is completely watchable, no eye strain at all, and no motion blur. The 3D depth is slightly less pronounced than before, but that’s really not important, as the image is just superb.

For the few folks who have 3D issues and connect their Epson 5030UB to their PC, maybe try this, especially if you’ve come from a 3D Vision setup.

Greg, if you don’t mind me asking, what 3D settings do you use on dynamic (FI, depth, glasses brightness etc)?
Also ordered both Tangled and Ultimate Wave Tahiti, so looking forward to checking these out this week!

Thanks again for your help and advice, it's much appreciated.

Richard
prince.nothing likes this.
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post #3606 of 5898 Old 09-29-2014, 08:04 AM
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Richie3000, how do you find the input lag when gaming on your 5030?
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post #3607 of 5898 Old 09-29-2014, 09:29 AM
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Bonjour Horseflesh,
The input lag on the Epson 5030UB is very noticeable, sadly. Compared to my car stereo sized Acer H5360, this is the area where the Epson 5030UB is lacking.
So far, I've not tried too out many of my games with this projector, mainly as I'm enjoying watching hi-def movie content so much.
The increased resolution from 720p to 1080p is great, but the input lag less so.

What's I've found is that using a mouse/keyboard isn't satisfactory anymore due to the input lag.
However, using an Xbox controller is passable. Last night my 5 yr old son played Lego Hobbit, which he loves and has played before on the Acer, and he didn't mention the lag. He did remark on how great it looked though, so there's a recommendation!

If you're a serious gamer, my two cents is to stick with a decent DLP projector with less lag for gaming.
I believe that the Epson has 90 milliseconds of input lag vs 20ms for the BenQ W1070 (now selling for $700).
However the Epson obviously trumps the DLP in picture quality by miles.
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post #3608 of 5898 Old 09-29-2014, 09:56 AM
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Richie3000,

I agree. The Epson 5030 beats a DLP in many ways. It falls short in terms of ghosting, but that's about it. Still, ghosting on the 5030 is superior to either JVC I had (RS40/45), and I like it better in bright scenes. The JVC's native contrast is obviously better for dark movies, but the Epson is no slouch there, either. It's a great value.

I watched Ultimate Wave: Tahiti just the other night, and it's a real 3D treat. And I LOVE Tangled. Those are two great movies to watch on the Epson. Have fun!

Joe Clark

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post #3609 of 5898 Old 09-29-2014, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie3000 View Post
The input lag on the Epson 5030UB is very noticeable, sadly....
Thanks--I had sort of gotten that impression in a roundabout way from reading many reviews, but your first hand experience is exactly what I needed to hear to really make it clear. Mouse and keyboard gaming will account for most of my PJ time so I think I can finally scratch the 5030 off my list for good.
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post #3610 of 5898 Old 09-29-2014, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by horseflesh View Post
Thanks--I had sort of gotten that impression in a roundabout way from reading many reviews, but your first hand experience is exactly what I needed to hear to really make it clear. Mouse and keyboard gaming will account for most of my PJ time so I think I can finally scratch the 5030 off my list for good.
This might be the dagger for me also. I will use the projector for gaming. If the 5030 is subpar for input lag then that is going to be a deal breaker. I have seen the different in quality on fast mode and it is a shame. The sony is looking more and more like the choice for me.

We rarely watch 3D, we do game, I have a purely light controlled basement theater, and I put a premium on 2D picture quality.

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post #3611 of 5898 Old 09-29-2014, 10:23 AM
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CreePer77, it sounds like we have come to the exact same place... Waiting for a sale on the Sony.

I'll miss being in the Epson family though, my 8350 has treated me well.
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You might be waiting forever on the Sony sell from what I was told. Their price on the hw40 is really a great deal at $2499. They know that and most likely from all the great reviews everywhere they will keep it their. But If they do drop the price I might just buy one for a backup.
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post #3613 of 5898 Old 09-29-2014, 11:22 AM
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Waiting for a sale on the Sony...
Is this the Sony 40ES? This was on my wish list, but seeing as my room very bright in daylight, the Sony projector wasn't an option. I've not tried fast mode yet for gaming FWIW, though the desktop looked noticeably blurry when activated, so I shut it down. It's wishful thinking that the upcoming Epson firmware update will address input lag as this is probably hardware related. Either way I have zero buyers remorse with the 5030, and am looking forward to upgrading to a fast n' bright laser projector in 2/3 years.
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post #3614 of 5898 Old 09-29-2014, 11:28 AM
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Yeah, the Sony 40ES. I know a sale is not likely but I thought it did happen for a couple of days a month ago, or so.

I don't expect the firmware upgrade on the 5030 to help lag either, but if it does, I'll be first in line to get one.
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post #3615 of 5898 Old 09-29-2014, 11:36 AM
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IMOHO the 5030 is not suitable (at this point) for anyone for whom gaming is a priority. The input lag on "fine" mode is way too high to be acceptable, and the loss of resolution on "fast" mode is also unacceptable. I also doubt that the firmware update will fix these issues, but there is always hope for those of us that already have one
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post #3616 of 5898 Old 09-29-2014, 11:36 AM
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Yeah, the Sony 40ES. I know a sale is not likely but I thought it did happen for a couple of days a month ago, or so.
Earlier this month the Sony40ES dropped to $1,850 and $1,799 last month. You should be able to buy it for sub $2k, if you're happy buying it on Amazon..
The Epson barely moved by $50 over the past year, which I guess means that demand is high.
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post #3617 of 5898 Old 09-29-2014, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie3000 View Post
Is this the Sony 40ES? This was on my wish list, but seeing as my room very bright in daylight, the Sony projector wasn't an option. I've not tried fast mode yet for gaming FWIW, though the desktop looked noticeably blurry when activated, so I shut it down. It's wishful thinking that the upcoming Epson firmware update will address input lag as this is probably hardware related. Either way I have zero buyers remorse with the 5030, and am looking forward to upgrading to a fast n' bright laser projector in 2/3 years.
The 40 is brighter than the 5030, so if the 5030 works, then the 40 is no problem.

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CreePer77, it sounds like we have come to the exact same place... Waiting for a sale on the Sony.

I'll miss being in the Epson family though, my 8350 has treated me well.
I would be surprised to see a sale on the HW40ES soon. Although Sony...since you are probably watching these threads another $1999.99 sale for a few days would be fantastic


If it wasn't for the gaming lag the 5030UB would be the bomb. I wish the firmware release notes would surface so we knew what was being tweaked.

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post #3619 of 5898 Old 09-29-2014, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Richie3000 View Post
Earlier this month the Sony40ES dropped to $1,850 and $1,799 last month. You should be able to buy it for sub $2k, if you're happy buying it on Amazon..
The Epson barely moved by $50 over the past year, which I guess means that demand is high.
Amazon is a Sony dealer, but that does not mean any of the third party sellers are Sony dealers. So you may be buying a new projector with no warranty. Here is a copy and paste of a letter that Sony sent out to dealers addressing this:


"Sony Electronics Inc.,
16530 Via Esprillo, San Diego, California 92127-1898 Telephone (858) 942-4700
Why it’s important for Consumers to purchase from Sony Authorized Retailers
Sony is the brand of consumer electronics that consumers want to have in their homes, and products that they trust. To ensure consumers maximize their experience and are confident they made the right choice, Sony has selected Authorized Retailers throughout the United States to represent and sell Sony products. These Authorized Retailers have been trained by Sony on the features and benefits of Sony products as well as the latest promotional offerings. Our Authorized Retailers receive, store, and ship products as recommended by Sony to avoid damage to the product.
It is unfortunate that many Sony products available online are advertised and sold by unauthorized entities. Sony products that are purchased from these entities may be “gray” market, refurbished, counterfeit, or products that are meant for another country. Consumers who purchase these goods run the risk of not having service/support or obtaining warranty coverage. To ensure you only purchase from Authorized Retailers, please visit http://store.sony.com/-cms- page.sony.authorized.dealer.list and view our list of Sony Authorized Retailers.
The following retailers are a small sampling of unauthorized retailers. This is not a complete listing of unauthorized Sony retailers.

42photo.com
DiscountCentralOnline.com

Ibuysonline.com
6th Avenue Electronics
Discounts Jungle via Amazon
Moe’s AV via Amazon
AbesofMaine.com
EastCoastTvs.com
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Electronic Basket.com
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**********.com
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GraystoneAppliance.com
RytherCamera.com
Coast National Sales via eBay
HookedonTronics.com
Sunset Electronics via Amazon
Deal Hunter via Amazon
Ibuysonline.com
TVSuperstores.com

Please know that Amazon.com is a Sony Authorized Retailer, but it is important to note that not all third party retailers of Sony products listed on the Amazon.com marketplace are authorized. When purchasing on Amazon.com, it is important to notice which retailer is the actual seller of the product you are purchasing and to only purchase from an Authorized Retailer.

Sincerely,
Toshifumi Okuda
Deputy President Sony Electronics Inc."

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post #3620 of 5898 Old 09-29-2014, 12:00 PM
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I didn't want to continue the Sony threadjack but Mike beat me to it, heh. The Amazon deals aren't legit. A person might decide the warranty wasn't worth extra cost, of course.

Here's what I really want to see... a bundle deal with the Xpand RF transmitter. An authorized reseller can't discount the projector, but they can figure out something else.

Anyway, sorry, back to 5030 things.
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post #3621 of 5898 Old 09-29-2014, 12:06 PM
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I wish the firmware release notes would surface so we knew what was being tweaked.
Would be nice. There are no release notes in the European (9200) firmware download, just a zip file with a firmware update bin and a pdf on how to load it.
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post #3622 of 5898 Old 09-29-2014, 05:24 PM
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I posted this in the 5010 thread but owners here might find it interesting

Click on I Posted this in the 5010
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post #3623 of 5898 Old 09-29-2014, 07:19 PM
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I posted this in the 5010 thread but owners here might find it interesting

Click on I Posted this in the 5010

Well, that is pretty interesting. Apparently Epson has different versions of the firmware out there installed on Pj's, just not on the download pages for the various projectors. Actually this makes sense as my 5030 has V102 and that is a later version that others have reported on their 5030's. Odd that Epson releases some new firmware versions for some projectors, and does not release others - just puts them on new Pj's. Can't say I am happy about this situation. Why not release any new firmware for download like any other consumer electronics device? Odd.
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Well, that is pretty interesting. Apparently Epson has different versions of the firmware out there installed on Pj's, just not on the download pages for the various projectors. Actually this makes sense as my 5030 has V102 and that is a later version that others have reported on their 5030's. Odd that Epson releases some new firmware versions for some projectors, and does not release others - just puts them on new Pj's. Can't say I am happy about this situation. Why not release any new firmware for download like any other consumer electronics device? Odd.
I just powered my 5030UB on for the first time to check it out and it has V102 firmware as well.
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post #3625 of 5898 Old 09-30-2014, 04:57 AM
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Originally Posted by usualsuspects View Post
Well, that is pretty interesting. Apparently Epson has different versions of the firmware out there installed on Pj's, just not on the download pages for the various projectors. Actually this makes sense as my 5030 has V102 and that is a later version that others have reported on their 5030's. Odd that Epson releases some new firmware versions for some projectors, and does not release others - just puts them on new Pj's. Can't say I am happy about this situation. Why not release any new firmware for download like any other consumer electronics device? Odd.
I AGREE 100% - Epson should make Firmware available to ALL.

I am ENJOYING a MUCH improved picture on a PJ with 3000+
hours on the LAMP.
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post #3626 of 5898 Old 09-30-2014, 05:55 AM
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^ Great if the picture quality is improved, but your original problem (refusal to start) is not necessarily solved. Occasionally these things (whether 5010 or 5030) just don't start up, but next try they will. Some do it fairly often, some very rarely, but unless Epson issue release notes showing this exact bug has been addressed, I'm sceptical the behaviour will have changed.

OTOH if it happens rarely enough it's no big deal. My 5030 actually seems to have gotten better lately on its own (it's been quite a while since I had a delayed start, or refusal to start).
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post #3627 of 5898 Old 09-30-2014, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post
^ Great if the picture quality is improved, but your original problem (refusal to start) is not necessarily solved.
Failure to start was exactly the problem that a new firmware fixed (PJ was dead - would not start) according to the link provided by drhankz above. If they fixed it in the 5010, they must know at least some of the causes of the start failures, and I assume (just that - an assumption) they might apply the same fix to the 5030 firmware (yeah, lots of assumptions).
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post #3628 of 5898 Old 09-30-2014, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by usualsuspects View Post
Failure to start was exactly the problem that a new firmware fixed (PJ was dead - would not start) according to the link provided by drhankz above. If they fixed it in the 5010, they must know at least some of the causes of the start failures, and I assume (just that - an assumption) they might apply the same fix to the 5030 firmware (yeah, lots of assumptions).
I am SURE if you have the DO NOT START problem - calling Epson
TECH support will get you the right FW for your PJ Model.
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post #3629 of 5898 Old 09-30-2014, 10:07 AM
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^ Are you saying the new firmware revived your PJ from an apparently permanent state of not-starting? i.e. even after unplugging and trying again it still wouldn't start until you updated the firmware?
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post #3630 of 5898 Old 09-30-2014, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post
^ Are you saying the new firmware revived your PJ from an apparently permanent state of not-starting? i.e. even after unplugging and trying again it still wouldn't start until you updated the firmware?
YES INDEED that is why I was AMAZED
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