Official Epson EH-TW 9200 5030UB Owners' Thread - Page 124 - AVS Forum
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post #3691 of 3926 Old 10-10-2014, 02:35 PM
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Does anyone know if the Sony HW40ES still gets 24ms lag with all the reality creation and motion flow stuff turned on?
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post #3692 of 3926 Old 10-10-2014, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viche View Post
One other thing I've been considering is the lack of the auto iris on the Sony. I HATE fluctuating back lights on TVs, so I wonder if I would notice and dislike the auto iris on the Epson. Sure it might give me slightly better blacks, but if it's visually noticeable, it's going to bug the crap out of me. Also, wouldn't your shadow details be better on the Sony in dark scenes if it's still using the full open iris? I admit, I don't really understand light well enough to have any clue.
Everything I've read says that visually the auto-iris is barely noticeable, minus some small flickers here and there. Granted I've never had one on hand to be able to test this, but considering that most reviews don't even mention this as an issue I don't see it being too noticeable. The biggest complaint I've heard about the auto-iris isn't its visual shortcomings, but the noise it makes, which is supposedly sometimes as loud as the fan. Neither of these things bother me personally, as I see them as small trade-offs for a much better contrast ratio. But if you do get the Epson and it bothers you, you can always turn the auto-iris off.

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This part from Projector Central has me leaning toward the Sony as well:
"...the HW40ES displays an analog-like purity and clarity that the 5030UB does not quite match. It has an advantage in overall contrast and image depth due to the reflective SXRD technology used in the light engine. The Epson 5030UB will achieve a deeper black level in dark scenes due to its auto iris (which the HW40ES does not have), but the black levels of the HW40ES are sufficient to give the image ample snap and sparkle"

That was written after comparing to the 5030 post firmware.

I still need zoomed in screen shots of the fast mode with the B&W stripped test pattern.
And someone has to do a comparison of sharpness between the Sony and the 5030 post FW.

Let's go people!
Quite honestly I think the picture quality of these two comes down to personal preference more than one being outright superior to the other at this point. I personally love a high contrast ratio so I'm leaning more towards the Epson (if its Fine mode is indeed fixed with the update), but for those who like a more film-like picture the Sony may be the better choice. From what I've read, it'll be hard to be disappointed with the picture either unit throws out.

Last edited by Sportsmaniac13; 10-10-2014 at 03:32 PM.
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post #3693 of 3926 Old 10-10-2014, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Sportsmaniac13 View Post
Everything I've read says that visually the auto-iris is barely noticeable, minus some small flickers here and there. Granted I've never had one on hand to be able to test this, but considering that most reviews don't even mention this as an issue I don't see it being too noticeable. The biggest complaint I've heard about the auto-iris isn't its visual shortcomings, but the noise it makes, which is supposedly sometimes as loud as the fan. Neither of these things bother me personally, as I see them as small trade-offs for a much better contrast ratio. But if you do get the Epson and it bothers you, you can always turn to auto-iris off.



Quite honestly I think the picture quality of these two comes down to personal preference more than one being outright superior to the other at this point. I personally love a high contrast ratio so I'm leaning more towards the Epson (if its Fine mode is indeed fixed with the update), but for those who like a more film-like picture the Sony may be the better choice. From what I've read, it'll be hard to be disappointed with the picture either unit throws out.
I get the sense that the over contrast is pretty equivalent when the Epson has auto iris on (some advantage to Epson in dark scenes), so that makes me think that if I had to turn the auto-iris off, the Sony would win. Wish I could see an example of the difference in black levels contrast between the 2.

If it ends up that the Sony can still maintain 24 ms lag time with all the bells and whistles on, that might sway me. I'm tried of seeing the entire screen smear when moving in a game on an LCD. It would be neat to be able to have Plasma like motion resolution and stability while gaming on a projector.
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post #3694 of 3926 Old 10-10-2014, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viche View Post
One other thing I've been considering is the lack of the auto iris on the Sony. I HATE fluctuating back lights on TVs, so I wonder if I would notice and dislike the auto iris on the Epson. Sure it might give me slightly better blacks, but if it's visually noticeable, it's going to bug the crap out of me. Also, wouldn't your shadow details be better on the Sony in dark scenes if it's still using the full open iris? I admit, I don't really understand light well enough to have any clue.

This part from Projector Central has me leaning toward the Sony as well:
"...the HW40ES displays an analog-like purity and clarity that the 5030UB does not quite match. It has an advantage in overall contrast and image depth due to the reflective SXRD technology used in the light engine. The Epson 5030UB will achieve a deeper black level in dark scenes due to its auto iris (which the HW40ES does not have), but the black levels of the HW40ES are sufficient to give the image ample snap and sparkle"

That was written after comparing to the 5030 post firmware.

I still need zoomed in screen shots of the fast mode with the B&W stripped test pattern.
And someone has to do a comparison of sharpness between the Sony and the 5030 post FW.

Let's go people!
I don't notice any fluctuation in black level with the iris on, BUT the noise it makes is making me think about turning it off-some people say that in a well light-controlled room, you don't notice a big difference with it on. I think it might make the blacks slightly deeper, but the noise (watching non-action) is really getting on my nerves. Just something to keep in mind.
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post #3695 of 3926 Old 10-10-2014, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viche View Post
I get the sense that the over contrast is pretty equivalent when the Epson has auto iris on (some advantage to Epson in dark scenes), so that makes me think that if I had to turn the auto-iris off, the Sony would win. Wish I could see an example of the difference in black levels contrast between the 2.

If it ends up that the Sony can still maintain 24 ms lag time with all the bells and whistles on, that might sway me. I'm tried of seeing the entire screen smear when moving in a game on an LCD. It would be neat to be able to have Plasma like motion resolution and stability while gaming on a projector.
Here's a link that directly compares the black levels of both projectors, giving pictures as examples. For me the difference between the two is significant enough to favor the Epson, but like I said it all comes down to taste.

http://www.projectorreviews.com/comp...-vpl-hw40es-2/
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post #3696 of 3926 Old 10-10-2014, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Viche View Post
I still need zoomed in screen shots of the fast mode with the B&W stripped test pattern.
And someone has to do a comparison of sharpness between the Sony and the 5030 post FW.
I will be getting a Sony HW55ES in here in a couple of weeks, but will do the firmware update on the Epson and an updated set of shots on what the fast mode looks like on the new firmware. If anybody is interested I can compare and contrast them (heh - pun intended) - unless I have been made persona non grata by my jumping ships back to Sony I will be interested in what the the sony allows for "image enhancement" on game mode also, if anything, don't really know at this point and don't care beyond full 1080p60 resolution being maintained, but it will be interesting to see what it will do. Sony 55 is just the 40 with auto-iris and some more calibration options in the user menu for the most part.

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I get the sense that the over contrast is pretty equivalent when the Epson has auto iris on (some advantage to Epson in dark scenes), so that makes me think that if I had to turn the auto-iris off, the Sony would win. Wish I could see an example of the difference in black levels contrast between the 2.

If it ends up that the Sony can still maintain 24 ms lag time with all the bells and whistles on, that might sway me. I'm tried of seeing the entire screen smear when moving in a game on an LCD. It would be neat to be able to have Plasma like motion resolution and stability while gaming on a projector.
Gonna be really hard to compare contrast/black level between the two, depends so much on what modes you run each projector in and how you have each PJ calibrated. Screen shots are useless because the camera is the biggest influence on what you see in those comparisons in my opinion. Just way too many variables. You are never going to see "true black" from any projector at this point and it is really just a question of "is it black enough?" - So hard to quantify that - really a personal preference issue.
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post #3697 of 3926 Old 10-10-2014, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Viche View Post
Does anyone know if the Sony HW40ES still gets 24ms lag with all the reality creation and motion flow stuff turned on?

According to the reviews the input lag increases to approx. 60-63ms with those processing options enabled.
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post #3698 of 3926 Old 10-10-2014, 11:57 PM
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Originally Posted by hmunster2 View Post
I don't notice any fluctuation in black level with the iris on, BUT the noise it makes is making me think about turning it off-some people say that in a well light-controlled room, you don't notice a big difference with it on. I think it might make the blacks slightly deeper, but the noise (watching non-action) is really getting on my nerves. Just something to keep in mind.

Strange because I hate my Epson's auto iris. I see the flicker on almost every single change (even on fast mode). Although I don't perceive the benefit in contrast. It's just a nasty flicker with too much brightness delta IMO.
So I'm one of those who has to switch it off or it makes me dissatisfied with my purchase.
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post #3699 of 3926 Old 10-11-2014, 03:03 AM
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Guys,


Is it possible to install the firmware from the UK equivalent to the 5030UB (the EH-TW 9200) which is already available?


Or does anyone have the file for the U.S. version (5030UB)?
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post #3700 of 3926 Old 10-11-2014, 03:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Kelvinpena View Post
Guys,


Is it possible to install the firmware from the UK equivalent to the 5030UB (the EH-TW 9200) which is already available?


Or does anyone have the file for the U.S. version (5030UB)?
Be careful. The PJs are not identical. For example, the 9200 does not have THX mode like the 5030. IDK if that matters but it is a fact they are not identical units.

HST, the Epson instructions say that the FW will not load if it is not the correct FW for the unit, so I guess if you try it and it loads, then it is OK.
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post #3701 of 3926 Old 10-11-2014, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Kelvinpena View Post
Guys,


Is it possible to install the firmware from the UK equivalent to the 5030UB (the EH-TW 9200) which is already available?


Or does anyone have the file for the U.S. version (5030UB)?
Epson customer service said the US version will be available late October.
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post #3702 of 3926 Old 10-11-2014, 10:37 AM
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Yeah I turned my Iris off after first try. Couldn't stand the noise and constant flickering. Also didn't notice any better black detail with it on.
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post #3703 of 3926 Old 10-11-2014, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
Be careful. The PJs are not identical. For example, the 9200 does not have THX mode like the 5030. IDK if that matters but it is a fact they are not identical units.

HST, the Epson instructions say that the FW will not load if it is not the correct FW for the unit, so I guess if you try it and it loads, then it is OK.
MY 9200w has THX mode this is all I use as the picture in this mode looks the best (Australia)
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post #3704 of 3926 Old 10-12-2014, 05:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by chriso1671 View Post
MY 9200w has THX mode this is all I use as the picture in this mode looks the best (Australia)
It must be market-specific then. The EU versions of the 9200 don't have a THX mode.
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post #3705 of 3926 Old 10-12-2014, 12:10 PM
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Epson customer service said the US version will be available late October.
For those in UK who have install the Firmware is this how it looks like ? From my Epson 3500.
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post #3706 of 3926 Old 10-12-2014, 12:34 PM
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^ Looks interesting, but the effect is so obvious even at level 2 that I think they should have provided much finer steps. For example, on the Oppo 103D the Darbee enhancement goes to 100 in steps of 1.
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post #3707 of 3926 Old 10-12-2014, 01:02 PM - Thread Starter
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^ Looks interesting, but the effect is so obvious even at level 2 that I think they should have provided much finer steps. For example, on the Oppo 103D the Darbee enhancement goes to 100 in steps of 1.
Are they actual images of the new Super Resolution effect? Or photoshopped images with sharpening applied?
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post #3708 of 3926 Old 10-12-2014, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
Are they actual images of the new Super Resolution effect? Or photoshopped images with sharpening applied?
No, they are not photoshop images.
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post #3709 of 3926 Old 10-12-2014, 02:38 PM
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^ But those are from the Epson 3500? In which case we're not sure if it's the same algorithm as the new 5030 firmware, but it doesn't look like there are fine enough steps. When you're trying to decide whether level 1 or 2 is the right one, you need several steps in between.
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post #3710 of 3926 Old 10-12-2014, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post
^ But those are from the Epson 3500? In which case we're not sure if it's the same algorithm as the new 5030 firmware, but it doesn't look like there are fine enough steps. When you're trying to decide whether level 1 or 2 is the right one, you need several steps in between.
Yes Epson 3500, I will like anyone from EU will the firmware to confirm or not if it looks the same.
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post #3711 of 3926 Old 10-12-2014, 04:35 PM
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Looks like it needs to be at least 10 steps.. I think something between 1 and 2 like 1.5 would look good. I would have to see it in motion though to see if I liked it. I just ordered a Epson 5030ub today so I hope the firmware comes out soon so I don't have to take it down to update it. Should be a good upgrade from my Optoma HD25e.


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post #3712 of 3926 Old 10-13-2014, 07:50 AM
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Is there any information yet on how the new firmware is to be installed?

Will it be a download to our computers with a cable "bridge" to the 5030 or will we have to take the projector in to an Epson Service Center?

Wish it was just a simple download to a thumb drive but there's no USB port on the projector.
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post #3713 of 3926 Old 10-13-2014, 08:52 AM
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Service port on back of the PJ is a mini USB port.
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post #3714 of 3926 Old 10-13-2014, 09:01 AM
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Wow, now I'm really confused. So the Sony can't do 24ms lag with motion featured turned on, and that one article comparing black levels made the Epson look a lot better (they are screen shots, though). Then a couple people said that they really notice the noise and flickering with Epson's auto-iris, and had to turn it off. Then someone posts images of the effects of the firmware upgrade, but for a different model Epson, and I'm not sure that I really like the effect. What to do...what to do. Wish I could get my hands on both of these projectors and test them out.

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post #3715 of 3926 Old 10-13-2014, 11:30 AM
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Wow, now I'm really confused. So the Sony can't do 24ms lag with motion featured turned on, and that one article comparing black levels made the Epson look a lot better (they are screen shots, though). Then a couple people said that they really notice the noise and flickering with Epson's auto-iris, and had to turn it off. Then someone posts images of the effects of the firmware upgrade, but for a different model Epson, and I'm not sure that I really the effect. What to do...what to do. Wish I could get my hands on both of these projectors and test them out.
Agreed. I've never flip flopped so much on a product purchase before. At first, it seemed clear that the Epson (5020 or 5030) was the best value for the money even with a couple of negatives. I'm not really big on the gaming thing even though I own every system so that made it easy. Then, here comes Sony with the HW40 and then I'm forced to re-evaluate the "couple of negatives" for the Epson. The HW40 has a couple of negatives too, just different ones. So then it's like: Well, which negatives bother you more?

The risk of noise is a not a huge one since it would mainly occur with 3D watching, but the projector would pretty much be right over our heads so obviously it would be great to not even have to worry about it. I think the potential for dust blobs scares me more. It seems like it is something that is unavoidable eventually and might not be easy to fix myself. For the price difference to the HW55, I can ignore the risk, but with the HW40, it's a tougher compromise. In the end, it may just come down to price. If I could get a great deal on one or the other, I'd probably pull the trigger. I know the Epson is on sale now ($200 cash back and free extra bulb), but people are suspecting that Sony may put on another sale on soon too (they were selling it for under $2,000 in early July).
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post #3716 of 3926 Old 10-13-2014, 11:34 AM
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I have been flip-flopping quite a bit as well. I am 95% sure I am getting the Sony, but I am very interested in what the firmware update may do for the Epson. Gaming input lag is really important to me, and no one really thinks the Epson firmware will reduce lag... but if it improves the image in Fast mode, it may make the Epson a contender again.

If Fast mode image quality is still an open issue by the time the Sony next goes on sale, I will get the Sony, and it will be fine. They both look like great PJs.
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post #3717 of 3926 Old 10-13-2014, 01:38 PM
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Agreed. I've never flip flopped so much on a product purchase before. At first, it seemed clear that the Epson (5020 or 5030) was the best value for the money even with a couple of negatives. I'm not really big on the gaming thing even though I own every system so that made it easy. Then, here comes Sony with the HW40 and then I'm forced to re-evaluate the "couple of negatives" for the Epson. The HW40 has a couple of negatives too, just different ones. So then it's like: Well, which negatives bother you more?

The risk of noise is a not a huge one since it would mainly occur with 3D watching, but the projector would pretty much be right over our heads so obviously it would be great to not even have to worry about it. I think the potential for dust blobs scares me more. It seems like it is something that is unavoidable eventually and might not be easy to fix myself. For the price difference to the HW55, I can ignore the risk, but with the HW40, it's a tougher compromise. In the end, it may just come down to price. If I could get a great deal on one or the other, I'd probably pull the trigger. I know the Epson is on sale now ($200 cash back and free extra bulb), but people are suspecting that Sony may put on another sale on soon too (they were selling it for under $2,000 in early July).
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post #3718 of 3926 Old 10-13-2014, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by horseflesh View Post
I have been flip-flopping quite a bit as well. I am 95% sure I am getting the Sony, but I am very interested in what the firmware update may do for the Epson. Gaming input lag is really important to me, and no one really thinks the Epson firmware will reduce lag... but if it improves the image in Fast mode, it may make the Epson a contender again.

If Fast mode image quality is still an open issue by the time the Sony next goes on sale, I will get the Sony, and it will be fine. They both look like great PJs.
Yep, that's exactly what would put me over the edge on the Epson too. Right now that's its biggest glaring weakness for me: I can only game in Fast mode with a huge drop in image quality. If the firmware does indeed fix Fast mode then that would make the Epson the better unit for me.
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post #3719 of 3926 Old 10-14-2014, 03:44 AM
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Because of this thread, I paid more attention to iris noise last night. It never bothered us on the HomeCinema Pro, and it doesn't bother us on the 5030, and our PJ is directly above our seating position (maybe 6ft overhead). The only place it really stood out was in massive brightness switches -- typically commercials, where you'll go from a white background logo-and-legalese screen to an all-black screen. Then you hear the iris whirring around up there -- and it probably seems worse because the audio typically drops out at that point. But usually the audio drowns out any lens noise. I find I have to focus on the noise specifically before I notice it.

The iris is slightly less noisy than it was on the older Epson (and the fan noise is virtually nonexistent on the 5030, whereas the old one sounded like a passenger jet taxiing around up there).

It's highly subjective, but honestly I'd have never even thought about it without the constant discussion. But again, I'm far from the pickiest AVS user. Consider this the "average consumer" viewpoint. I set it and forget it.
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post #3720 of 3926 Old 10-14-2014, 05:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

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