Official Epson EH-TW 9200 5030UB Owners' Thread - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 3452 Old 10-17-2013, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whokilledkaji View Post

Hello everyone,
I owned a 5020ube for a while, but returned it because I thought the 3D performance was fairly poor. You can search my posts to get the whole story, but crosstalk was a big issue for me on two different units.

So... I've been using my old projector for the past 6 months, but I still want to get a new projector soon.

It looks like lots of people in this thread are saying the 5030ub has excellent 3D. Is it any better than the 5020ub?

 

I'm pretty fussy and all I can say is that so far any 3D BluRays that I have viewed have been smooth, bright and cross talk free. The image is actually brighter than my Panasonic plasma! Ideally you should get a demo if possible and make up your own mind but I haven't seen a better 3D image and I demoed quite a few projectors including the lesser Epsons, the Panasonic PT-AT6000 and various Optoma DLPs...

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post #452 of 3452 Old 10-17-2013, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by JewDaddy View Post


That's a tough one. I owned the 5020 and never really had an issue with crosstalk and I'm very sensitive to it. My only problem with the Epson 5020 while watching 3D was the motion and lack of sharpness. The 5030 has fixed this with Frame Interpolation now being an option along with Super Resolution.

Crosstalk....... I'm not sure because to me, it performs as good and a little better than the 5020. But again, I never had any issues with crosstalk on the 5020. I keep my glasses brightness on high and very rarely do I see crosstalk. The only real time I notice it is during the 3D menu's around text.

IMO, this is the best 3D in home viewing experience I've seen so far, and that includes the previous BenQ W7000 DLP Projector.

Can you fill me in on what Frame Interpolation and Super Resolution are? Looking for good 3D and 2D settings. BTW I would mess with them myself but the projector is still in the box. Won't be able to set it up until our house reno is done in a couple weeks >.<. Thanks!

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post #453 of 3452 Old 10-17-2013, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whokilledkaji View Post

Thanks for the reply!

Interesting.... You know, I wonder if I just had bad luck with the two 5020ube units that I tried? I had a lot of crosstalk. I could usually make one layer of "parallax" look good, but it would sacrifice other layers. Movies that make good use of the background like Hugo, the Avengers, Prometheus and Life of Pi always had crosstalk. Hugo looked particularly bad and in some cases, faces in the background would have up to three fairly distinct outlines.

Well apparently I'm finding out that with these Epson projectors, time is not friendly to the 3D image on these. I had two Epson 5020's and only put around 50-60 hours on them both. How long did you have both of yours and did they show crosstalk right out of the gate?

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post #454 of 3452 Old 10-17-2013, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SolRebel View Post

Can you fill me in on what Frame Interpolation and Super Resolution are? Looking for good 3D and 2D settings. BTW I would mess with them myself but the projector is still in the box. Won't be able to set it up until our house reno is done in a couple weeks >.<. Thanks!

Sure thing. Frame Interpolation is a smoothing technique that takes away most of the judder in motion. Whenever a camera pans, instead of it moving kind of choppy with a blurry image, it moves nice and smooth and keeps most of the detail in the image. However, a lot of people don't like that smooth look (also known as the Soap Opera Effect) and keep it either off or on low. I like it on high and it doesn't bother me.

Super Resolution just makes the picture appear sharper with more detail. You can adjust it from 0-5. I think on 4 and 5 it looks too sharp and adds unwanted artifacts into the picture. But they both give that extra wow factor to make 3D look amazing!

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post #455 of 3452 Old 10-17-2013, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Page 57 of the User Manual says 32 feet:

"Make sure the Wireless HD transmitter is within 32 feet (10m) of the projector and is located in the same room. "

The stone fireplace will also be an issue. I'd say it 'might' work' then so 'might' the cable. You're right on the edge. What you could do though, is run a HDMI cable from the AVR to the wireless transmitter - say a 15 foot cable, and locate the transmitter somewhere in the room closer to your PJ. IDK if this will be practical - I guess if you can run a new cable from the AVR to the transmitter, you could just as easily (or the opposite) run one all the way to the PJ. Either way, I'd make sure you can return the wireless Epson PJ if it doesn't work for you.

Having said all that, I am betting the existing cable will work. If you already have a 3D source you could perhaps connect the HDMI out on it to a 3D-capable TV, temporarily installed where the PJ usually is. It will be a hassle though. 

I am in a similar, but better position. Running my current 25 foot HDMI cable was a nightmare and there is NFW I'd want to do it again if I had to for some as yet unforeseen future development.

Can anybody check if the transmitter works through clear windows? I can put it in the same room but prefer to place it in a seperate room and have it pointed at the projector, that way a line of sight will not be an issue when people walk around the living room.

Also, does anyone know how badly this affects lag times?

Thanks.
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post #456 of 3452 Old 10-17-2013, 10:41 AM
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Has anyone with a 5030 used picture in picture or the side by side viewing modes?

The 5020 manual lists all the compatible modes for side by side simultaneous viewing (basically 1 analog + 1 digital)

The 5030 doesn't have anything about side by side that i could see anywhere, but mentions using multiple hdmi inputs from the wireless transmitter for PiP.

Anyone know if PiP works w/o the wireless hdmi, or if the old side by side still exists?
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post #457 of 3452 Old 10-17-2013, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by mumbleypeg View Post

I have my 5020 14' back projecting a 130" image on a 180" screen. I use custom adjustable black felt masking all around. I sit 15' back from the screen. On flat white lettering I can sometimes see the pixels, but otherwise the image looks great!

Have you tried to zoom to let it fill the 180" screen? I'm curious how it performs at that size in terms of brightness and color accuracy.
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post #458 of 3452 Old 10-17-2013, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by varkeast View Post

Has anyone with a 5030 used picture in picture or the side by side viewing modes?

The 5020 manual lists all the compatible modes for side by side simultaneous viewing (basically 1 analog + 1 digital)

The 5030 doesn't have anything about side by side that i could see anywhere, but mentions using multiple hdmi inputs from the wireless transmitter for PiP.

Anyone know if PiP works w/o the wireless hdmi, or if the old side by side still exists?

I asked this same question a few pages ago with no answer. I know it has PiP. I would like to know if i use two HDMI cables if it would work. The 5020 only had one HDMI processor, so it had to be 1 hdmi and one component or what not.
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post #459 of 3452 Old 10-17-2013, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whokilledkaji View Post

Hello everyone,I owned a 5020ube for a while, but returned it because I thought the 3D performance was fairly poor. You can search my posts to get the whole story, but crosstalk was a big issue for me on two different units. So... I've been using my old projector for the past 6 months, but I still want to get a new projector soon.It looks like lots of people in this thread are saying the 5030ub has excellent 3D. Is it any better than the 5020ub?

Yes, from the people that own them they are saying it is a step up from last year because of the FI implementation in 3D.
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post #460 of 3452 Old 10-17-2013, 12:33 PM
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I had about 900 hours on my 5020..and the crosstalk...that I hardly ever saw..with glasses on high brightness..never turned into an issue, stayed great its whole life! Really had to look on the hardest scenes to see it.
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post #461 of 3452 Old 10-17-2013, 01:23 PM
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Curious if anyone has upgraded to this from the Panasonic 4000 and if so, where can you see a difference in picture quality? I'm still happy with the 4000 but am getting curious.....

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post #462 of 3452 Old 10-17-2013, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

When you turn off the FI on the 5030, it looks exactly like the 5020. it's a little choppy. some people pick up on this, others won't have any idea what we're talking about.. smile.gif

The FI in 3D is the stand out feature. I was calling for this since the 5010 and we finally have it now.

it's definitely easier on the eyes imo. I like that there is a 'low' mode, so it's just enough to take the edge off, but not look over processed.

This is kind of odd to me. I have a 5020 that I am very pleased with. The one thing I find a little distracting is this choppiness you talk about. The strange thing is, I get this effect when I turn the FI on, not when it's off. For reference, i'm mainly watching movies via Vudu on Playstation 3. Would this have anything to do with how Vudu presents the movie? At first I thought maybe it was the internet bogging it down, which drove me crazy, but its a solid hard lined Xfinity connection with plenty of speed to spare. Sure enough as soon I turn FI off, the choppiness is instantly gone.

Can anybody explain this?
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post #463 of 3452 Old 10-17-2013, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by beasttopray View Post
 

Hey TechBuf! Some other people might be able to give you a better explained answer to your question but I will TRY to answer it for you. From my understanding it is best to have your zoom knob somewhere around the middle or close to it, And have the projector as far back as necessary to get you to project the screen of your size without zooming all the way in. This is just an estimation on my part. So id recommend asking someone with better knowledge if you want completely accurate settings. But im estimating somewhere between 12 feet to 17 feet.  21 feet is a bit too much I THINK for a 110 inch screen. No point going too far back from my knowledge, unlessyou plan on going bigger then 110 inches as you will lose light. And if you have light coming in your screen will get washed out. But id say around 14 feet would probably be ideal. (Im estimating) I just noticed your post and thought id TRY to answer it for you. Everyone will have different opinions I think. But try asking some of the professional people on here. They will be able to help you a bit more accurately. Im not a pro installer or anything. Im just going by my experience that I had with the 5020. I hope this helps a bit

 

Try using this link. Itll give you a bit of an idea. Its not accurate but itll give you an estimation of where to place the projector for your desired screen size.

 

http://www.epson.com/alf_upload/landing/distance-calculator/

Hi beasttopray, thanks for the response. I am surprised you are the only one who could answer my concern. Thanks for the link too. I actually got a BenQ 1070 model earlier that I mounted at the same location and tried helplessly to focus it on the same 110" screen. It would not work for the same reason - the projector being far away. I found out the 5030 has a longer throw distance and is a better model. But, I still did not realize it would end up with a strain on the Zoom Knob. I may have to readjust the whole set up (mount, projector etc.) to be nearer to the screen since I am not planning to buy a bigger screen.

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post #464 of 3452 Old 10-17-2013, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Draden1 View Post

Curious if anyone has upgraded to this from the Panasonic 4000 and if so, where can you see a difference in picture quality? I'm still happy with the 4000 but am getting curious.....

I have a Panny 4000. My Epson is on backorder at Best Buy. If I get it before you do I'll let you know what I think

E
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post #465 of 3452 Old 10-17-2013, 02:18 PM
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Hey Draden1, I see you have an Oppo BR player. Think it is worth it for the money? Plan on going with a 2:35 1 screen and was considering getting one for the subtitle shift. Have you had any expereince using this feature? Also, does a high end BR player like this offer a big bump in PQ (over say a PS3)?

 

Related question...Anyone know if PS4 or Xbox One will support subtitle shift?

 

Thanks!

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post #466 of 3452 Old 10-17-2013, 02:31 PM
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Just bought an oppo 103 for this PJ- I needed dual hdmi out for my 'legacy' avr that doesn't support 3d. I haven't watched 3d yet- but yes, it's better. Even on my 50" plasma there's a huge difference in quality. And that's compared to my Sony blu ray through my Onkyo 3007 that's 4 yrs old. It has fancy nancy video processing as well. But that's a bit off topic.
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post #467 of 3452 Old 10-17-2013, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aBuLhAgaG View Post

...any 3D BluRays that I have viewed have been smooth, bright and cross talk free. The image is actually brighter than my Panasonic plasma!

A general question for all the folks who are talking positively about the brightness of the 5030 in 3D -- can you please say which setting you're using? I've now watched both The Avengers and Prometheus in 3D using the 3D THX mode and felt that the image was pretty dim across the board, but especially noticeable in daytime scenes when you expect it to be bright. I know the 3D THX mode is lower output, but I put it in that mode because I want accurate(ish) colors.

It's very possible that this level of brightness is how home 3D "is", since this is the first 3D projector I've owned and my only other experience is in movie theaters. But I watch 2D in a low-output mode -- THX with the lamp on ECO -- and I find that to be plenty bright in my setup (106" Carada Brilliant White screen), so I'm surprised that I'm finding the 3D THX mode so dim.
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post #468 of 3452 Old 10-17-2013, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by cmokruhl View Post

A general question for all the folks who are talking positively about the brightness of the 5030 in 3D -- can you please say which setting you're using? I've now watched both The Avengers and Prometheus in 3D using the 3D THX mode and felt that the image was pretty dim across the board, but especially noticeable in daytime scenes when you expect it to be bright. I know the 3D THX mode is lower output, but I put it in that mode because I want accurate(ish) colors.

It's very possible that this level of brightness is how home 3D "is", since this is the first 3D projector I've owned and my only other experience is in movie theaters. But I watch 2D in a low-output mode -- THX with the lamp on ECO -- and I find that to be plenty bright in my setup (106" Carada Brilliant White screen), so I'm surprised that I'm finding the 3D THX mode so dim.

A number of people here use the Da-lite HP screen (2.8 gain) for 3D and even in 3D THX mode the Epson is fairly bright. I have three of the older 2.8 gain HP screens (80", 96" and a 120") and I am very happy I bought them when I did. With the Epson 5010 and 5020 (I have a 6010 and a 6020) you could use the 3D dynamic mode with good results -- you would have to dial back saturation and make a few other changes. The image is very bright (especially on a 2.8 gain screen) and once you have watched 3D like this it is hard to go back to "dim" 3D. There are people here who use the HP for 3D only, but I use it for everything -- I've tried other screens, but have always come back to the HP.
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post #469 of 3452 Old 10-17-2013, 03:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SolRebel View Post
 

Hey Draden1, I see you have an Oppo BR player. Think it is worth it for the money? Plan on going with a 2:35 1 screen and was considering getting one for the subtitle shift. Have you had any expereince using this feature? Also, does a high end BR player like this offer a big bump in PQ (over say a PS3)?

 

Related question...Anyone know if PS4 or Xbox One will support subtitle shift?

 

Thanks!

 

No. It's digital. Any half decent BD player will have exactly the same identical PQ as any other on 1080p content.

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post #470 of 3452 Old 10-17-2013, 04:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by eliocon View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillip2013 View Post

I think that I'm the first to ask this question or make this request, but surely I can't be the only one who is curious about the enhanced B&W Film setting.  Can you, zombie10k took at look at this feature?  Is it just hype without substance?  I watch a lot of B&W films - so if there actually is a great difference between the 5030 and a (hopefully soon) discounted 5020 or refurbished 5010, then that could make the decision for me between the three projectors.  Of course, if anyone else has said experience than I'd love to know.

-phillip

This from HDGURU:

There’s also a new dedicated “black and white” mode, tweaked to look a bit warmer (think more “sepia tone”) with B&W movies.

I think this sounds like hype. Black and White movies, unless they were dyed for a specific reason (i.e. Blue to represent night, Yellow to represent daytime) were always meant to be seen in black and white. Unless you were viewing the movie on a projector with a seriously aged bulb there should be no "Sepia Tone" to a regular black and white film. I was hoping, when I first heard of the black and white mode, that the gray scale had been improved. It's doesn't seem to be the case although I don't think the gray scale on any of these projectors is bad at all.

E

 

It's not a 'sepia tone'. Old B&W movies used a different colour temperature - IIRC it was 5700. Edit: 5400?

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post #471 of 3452 Old 10-17-2013, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

It's not a 'sepia tone'. Old B&W movies used a different colour temperature - IIRC it was 5700. Edit: 5400?

The color temperature is dictated by the projector bulb not the film. Black and white film is shades of gray. And there were zero controls from one theater to the next over the temperature of the bulb. We can make a guess depending on the era the film was shot, and the bulb technology of the time, what might be the color of temp of the bulb but I think it's a little bit of a stretch to say that B&W movies were intended to be viewed at any particular color temp. There were no standards for theatrical projection bulb color temperature at the time.

E
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post #472 of 3452 Old 10-17-2013, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by eliocon View Post

I have a Panny 4000. My Epson is on backorder at Best Buy. If I get it before you do I'll let you know what I think

E

I owned a Panasonic 4000 several years back. The Epson 6010 (and the other projectors I had in between the two) were much better. My Epson 5030 should be here soon. You'd notice a tremendous improvement in image quality, especially contrast. Sharpness is better on my 6010, too, as is frame interpolation.

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post #473 of 3452 Old 10-17-2013, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

I owned a Panasonic 4000 several years back. The Epson 6010 (and the other projectors I had in between the two) were much better. My Epson 5030 should be here soon. You'd notice a tremendous improvement in image quality, especially contrast. Sharpness is better on my 6010, too, as is frame interpolation.
That's great to know. I've been happy with my 4000 but I felt like it was time for an upgrade. The only reason I waited this long was the convergence on my Panny is the best I've ever seen on an LCD projector. But it's time for a new toy. Papa needs some 3D. Especially after seeing Gravity.

E
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post #474 of 3452 Old 10-17-2013, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
 

 

No. It's digital. Any half decent BD player will have exactly the same identical PQ as any other on 1080p content.

Amen to that. I never understood why people buy a specific 'high-end' media source like a bluray player unless it has some special feature like dual output, 4k upconversion, etc.

 

Digital in = digital out...if there's issues it'll be obvious.

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post #475 of 3452 Old 10-17-2013, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by eliocon View Post

That's great to know. I've been happy with my 4000 but I felt like it was time for an upgrade. The only reason I waited this long was the convergence on my Panny is the best I've ever seen on an LCD projector. But it's time for a new toy. Papa needs some 3D. Especially after seeing Gravity.

E

I've owned 7 different 3D displays - two Samsung active plasmas, Samsung active LCD (for 3D editing), JVC RS40 and RS45 projectors, LG passive LCD (also for 3D editing) and the Epson 6010. The LG passive is the easiest on the eyes and perfect for editing my 3D videos. Of the active displays, the Epson is my favorite, with a great combination of contrast and black level. I'm really looking forward to getting the calibrated Epson 5030 zombie has at his place. The Epson 6010's frame interpolation is the first implementation on my displays that I can stand to keep on. I keep it on the middle setting for virtually all Blu-ray movies, so I'm really encouraged to here that FI in 3D on the 5030 is so good.

I found this thread today and just finished reading the whole thing (I've been preoccupied smile.gif ). As Bob Sorel implied, the Epson was a revelation. I've owned lots of projectors over the last 12 years. The Epson 6010 has been my favorite, 2D or 3D. It was also one of the cheapest. Can't wait to get the 5030. smile.gif

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post #476 of 3452 Old 10-17-2013, 11:26 PM
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It's really encouraging that early 3D reports are good!

There was, however, one other big problem with both of the 5020ube units that I tried.
When the room (or projector) got warmer, the focus would go out. It was super annoying! I could start a movie and by the halfway point, I'd have to refocus the unit! I've heard other reports of this too on the 5020ube. My 3D problems on the 5020ube were disappointing, but it's the focus issue that was the deal breaker.

How is the 5030??? No loss of focus problems to report?
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post #477 of 3452 Old 10-18-2013, 12:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by eliocon View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

It's not a 'sepia tone'. Old B&W movies used a different colour temperature - IIRC it was 5700. Edit: 5400?

The color temperature is dictated by the projector bulb not the film. Black and white film is shades of gray. And there were zero controls from one theater to the next over the temperature of the bulb. We can make a guess depending on the era the film was shot, and the bulb technology of the time, what might be the color of temp of the bulb but I think it's a little bit of a stretch to say that B&W movies were intended to be viewed at any particular color temp. There were no standards for theatrical projection bulb color temperature at the time.

E

 

 It's way more complicated than that. It is not correct, for example, to say that colour temperature is dictated by the projector bulb and not the film. 

 

For example, Daylight balanced film stock will accurately record colours in daylight, c. 5,500k whereas Tungsten balanced film will accurately record colours in warm light, c. 3,000k. 

 

To properly understand the colour temperature of old B&W movies requires knowledge of the common film stocks in use at the time. Theatrical projection could of course influence the projected colour temperature (by the bulb) - but different film stocks have as much impact in the final result.  At the end of the day, the B&W mode that Epson offers is just a subjective preference thing - some may like it and think it makes old movies look more like they remember seeing them in a theatre at the time, others may not like it because they perceive it as 'too warm'. It's not a big deal and  doesn’t really matter - there are loads of features on any domestic PJ these days that many people like, and equally as many hate - eg Dynamic Mode, various forms of frame interpolation, dynamic irises etc etc etc.

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post #478 of 3452 Old 10-18-2013, 03:40 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

 It's way more complicated than that. It is not correct, for example, to say that colour temperature is dictated by the projector bulb and not the film. 

For example, Daylight balanced film stock will accurately record colours in daylight, c. 5,500k whereas Tungsten balanced film will accurately record colours in warm light, c. 3,000k. 

To properly understand the colour temperature of old B&W movies requires knowledge of the common film stocks in use at the time. Theatrical projection could of course influence the projected colour temperature (by the bulb) - but different film stocks have as much impact in the final result.  At the end of the day, the B&W mode that Epson offers is just a subjective preference thing - some may like it and think it makes old movies look more like they remember seeing them in a theatre at the time, others may not like it because they perceive it as 'too warm'. It's not a big deal and  doesn’t really matter - there are loads of features on any domestic PJ these days that many people like, and equally as many hate - eg Dynamic Mode, various forms of frame interpolation, dynamic irises etc etc etc.
Panchromatic film {black and white) is not balanced for daylight or tungsten because its incapable of producing a color. Only color film is balanced for the different light sources. I know a little about this having been a first ac on features and commercials.

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post #479 of 3452 Old 10-18-2013, 04:35 AM
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Originally Posted by TechBuf View Post
 

Hi beasttopray, thanks for the response. I am surprised you are the only one who could answer my concern. Thanks for the link too. I actually got a BenQ 1070 model earlier that I mounted at the same location and tried helplessly to focus it on the same 110" screen. It would not work for the same reason - the projector being far away. I found out the 5030 has a longer throw distance and is a better model. But, I still did not realize it would end up with a strain on the Zoom Knob. I may have to readjust the whole set up (mount, projector etc.) to be nearer to the screen since I am not planning to buy a bigger screen.

 

Hey TechBuf. I just looked around a little bit for your BenQ 1070 model. Yes those DLP projectors have a different short throw ratio as some of the LCD projectors. DLP's are usually less brighter then LCDs so distance on DLPs will make a bigger difference then a LCD projector like the Epson, especially since Epson dominates in brightness. But on the bright side DLPs have some nice features if you dont see the rainbow effect. Which hopefully you dont or it might bother you. Its really just about prefrence and what your eyes prefer and also about buying a good projector within your budget. But anyhow, with the BenQ having a short throw ratio of 1.15 - 1.5:1 Im estimating you have to have it at 9.6 feet. Ideally it should be anywhere between 8.43 feet to 11.00 feet for a screen of 110 inches. I would put it at 9.6 probably if I owned that projector. Try keeping the zoom in the middle and placing it at 9.6 feet. I hope this helps! Let me know how it goes. Im still patiently waiting for my 5030. But im running short on patience now. Lol Feels like its taking forever. Best of luck with your setup! =)

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post #480 of 3452 Old 10-18-2013, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by SolRebel View Post

Hey Draden1, I see you have an Oppo BR player. Think it is worth it for the money? Plan on going with a 2:35 1 screen and was considering getting one for the subtitle shift. Have you had any expereince using this feature? Also, does a high end BR player like this offer a big bump in PQ (over say a PS3)?

Related question...Anyone know if PS4 or Xbox One will support subtitle shift?

Thanks!

I upgraded from a PS3 to the Oppo 103 and noticed a difference in sharpness and color, as in they are both better to my eyes. I waited quite awhile to upgrade to the Oppo because of its price and there was no way for me to demo it where I live. Once I finally got it, I wish I would have upgraded earlier. On a projection system where all the warts of someone's gear can be seen, the Oppo gives me the best PQ I've experienced yet in the home. I also take advantage of the 2 hdmi in's so my satellite and Apple TV benefit from the Oppo video processor, and yes the PQ is better for those as well. As for the subtitle shift, I haven't played with that so I can't comment. If you can make the switch, I'd highly recommend it.

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