Official Epson EH-TW 9200 5030UB Owners' Thread - Page 34 - AVS Forum
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post #991 of 3377 Old 11-12-2013, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gec5741 View Post

I think you can get the 5030 to work with a 2.35 screen. It's just that if you plan to switch between the 2 ratios then you have to do it manually which can (from what I hear) be a bit of a pain. So maybe someone that has this PJ can correct me if i'm wrong but if your going to just leave it for 2.35 then you could still use the 5030. For me money is a big factor and I'd like the best picture for my buck here so that is why I am leaning toward this PJ.

Switching manually takes about 30 seconds if you can easily reach the projector. The lens shift controls aren't as bad as I expected given some reports. I much prefer a 2.35;1 screen, but I probably wouldn't want to switch several times a night (e.g. to watch 16:9 extras when the movie was 2.35:1). But I hardly ever watch extras, and I can live with menus that overflow the screen.

What Epson should do is add a 0.75x digital zoom mode, then you can leave the lens zoomed for 2.35:1 and with one button press scale down the image for menus and extras (and TV or 16:9 movies if you don't mind losing a bit of resolution). It would be such an easy addition, and they could then claim to have all the convenience of a lens memory without actually implementing it.

A video processor can do the downscale but adds a lot of cost. Some BD players like the Oppo claim to do it, but in reality the zoom feature is disabled on many Blu-rays.
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post #992 of 3377 Old 11-12-2013, 11:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyberathlete View Post

I would strongly advise against the 2.35:1 screen for the following reasons:
1) All blu-ray menus and most previews are in 16x9 format
2) Most (if not all) special features, documentaries, behind the scenes footage and interviews are in 16x9 format
3) all your games are in 16x9 format
4) all your television shows are in 16x9 format (you may not use it as a tv, but in case you do end up buying/renting tv shows on blu-ray)
5) And don't forget the IMAX optimized movies (very few) but those def are made for 16x9 screens

If 2:35 is that important, get a masking system to cover up the empty spaces during a 2:35 format movie.

2-5 are not applicable for me.
I only watch Blu-ray movies.

 

5 would be if you watched any movie that switches between full frame and 'Scope such as The Dark Knight, The Dark Night Rises, Tron Legacy etc...

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post #993 of 3377 Old 11-12-2013, 11:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post

Wow, that is REALLY sweet!

The only problem is that a fixed screen is really not an option for me. I have a very rustic room and don't want a massive white screen in place when I am not using the PJ. UGH!
That would be perfect otherwise and it is cheap too!! Damn! mad.gif

Thanks for posting that!

 

Ah yeah - sorry... I didn’t take that into account - my HT is a dedicated room so the issue doesn’t arise here. 

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post #994 of 3377 Old 11-12-2013, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Ix View Post

CH setups can be difficult and have their own set of trade offs (i.e. "done right" they can be quite a bit more expensive). The Panny 8000 does do anamorphic stretch and has zoom memory, however in every other way it is an inferior projector to the 5030ub - even the 5020ub beat it in multiple shootouts and the 5030ub is better.

For true CI, you'll need a 2:35 screen, plus a way to mask the sides when you watch non 2:35 content (it's easier to do this than the other way around because you can use vertical drapes instead of horizontal masks, but on the other hand you'll need to do it because otherwise you will have white screen showing on the sides of all 1:85, 1:78, or 4:3 content).

With a PJ llike the 8000u you'll also need to decide between "zooming" and true anamorphic stretch - the latter requires an external lens, and good ones are not cheap. The former doesn't, but it means you won't get the "full" resolution of a 2:35 or higher picture since the projector still sends the black bars as part of the total picture (to be fair, that's the case whether you zoom or not). Using the anamorphic stretch feature (either built in or with an external processor) allows you to use all the projected image pixels for the picture, however that's why it needs a lens to stretch it back out.

I'm not suggesting CI isn't worthwhile - plenty of members here swear by it, and there's a whole forum dedicated to discussing it. Just understand what you are getting in to.

The 5030ub has the best black levels, bar none, of any PJ in it's price range, even beyond. Once you calibrate it the "black bars" in 2:35 or higher content end up being pretty black indeed. That said no PJ is going to make them so dark that they are indistinguishable from actual black masking material (or, in the case of CI, no black bars at all).

If I were you and I really, really wanted to do CI right I'd step up to the 6030ub (pro model) which does have anamorphic stretch, drop some cash for a decent lens and CI screen, and deal with setting up some drapes to mask the sides. If you were instead thinking of going with the Panny so you could simply zoom it, I wouldn't recommend it - the tradeoffs in overall image quality would be too great, at least in my opinion. I'd rather deal with the black bars, or come up with a cheap horizontal masking system - if you don't have a screen yet Monoprice sells one with built in pull down masks that many people here seem to like.

Thanks for the info Ix!

I am bit perturbed at the though of manually adding masking. I really need to go with a non-fixed screen so that is not the best solution.
I guess I will either have to pull the trigger on the 5030 and just live with the bars.

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post #995 of 3377 Old 11-12-2013, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Ah yeah - sorry... I didn’t take that into account - my HT is a dedicated room so the issue doesn’t arise here. 

No problem! I am envious of your setup. I wish I had another room that wasn't so damn nice otherwise. It is hard to cover up logs from 1830's cabin with a giant white monolith. eek.gif

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post #996 of 3377 Old 11-12-2013, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

5 would be if you watched any movie that switches between full frame and 'Scope such as The Dark Knight, The Dark Night Rises, Tron Legacy etc...

Gotcha, yes that would be an issue there as well.

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post #997 of 3377 Old 11-12-2013, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

Switching manually takes about 30 seconds if you can easily reach the projector. The lens shift controls aren't as bad as I expected given some reports. I much prefer a 2.35;1 screen, but I probably wouldn't want to switch several times a night (e.g. to watch 16:9 extras when the movie was 2.35:1). But I hardly ever watch extras, and I can live with menus that overflow the screen.

What Epson should do is add a 0.75x digital zoom mode, then you can leave the lens zoomed for 2.35:1 and with one button press scale down the image for menus and extras (and TV or 16:9 movies if you don't mind losing a bit of resolution). It would be such an easy addition, and they could then claim to have all the convenience of a lens memory without actually implementing it.

A video processor can do the downscale but adds a lot of cost. Some BD players like the Oppo claim to do it, but in reality the zoom feature is disabled on many Blu-rays.

Yes, that would be a much desired solution of sorts.
I agree, the 2.35:1 would be nicer for most movie watching. But, I can see where issues arise.

When I ponder how far HT has come, it is kind of amazing how far it has to go. I can't believe there are not better solutions out there that don't cost additional thousands to implement.

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post #998 of 3377 Old 11-12-2013, 11:18 AM
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Now I'm thinking about going with a monoprice multi format screen! The manual masking system looks pretty nice with it!
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post #999 of 3377 Old 11-12-2013, 11:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Ah yeah - sorry... I didn’t take that into account - my HT is a dedicated room so the issue doesn’t arise here. 

No problem! I am envious of your setup. I wish I had another room that wasn't so damn nice otherwise. It is hard to cover up logs from 1830's cabin with a giant white monolith. eek.gif

 

Yes - but an 1830's cabin sounds soooooooooo inviting. We all have to make compromises in life and if I lived in a cabin like yours, I'd be happy to tolerate the black bars I guess ;)

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post #1000 of 3377 Old 11-12-2013, 11:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

5 would be if you watched any movie that switches between full frame and 'Scope such as The Dark Knight, The Dark Night Rises, Tron Legacy etc...

Gotcha, yes that would be an issue there as well.

 

Yes, I love the movies but I hate going back to the black bars to watch them. Once you've gotten rid of the black bars it is very hard to go back...

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post #1001 of 3377 Old 11-12-2013, 11:30 AM
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Also shouldn't this long thread about which screen to buy, be moved to the projector screen forum? Folks looking for the Epson 5030 discussion will have to go through a few dozen posts if this discussion continues on smile.gif If it were 3-4 posts, it would be ok I guess, but since it has turned into an open discussion, I think we should move it to a different thread smile.gif

No offense, but just want to make sure that people who come here don't get lost in off topic discussions smile.gif
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post #1002 of 3377 Old 11-12-2013, 11:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gec5741 View Post

Now I'm thinking about going with a monoprice multi format screen! The manual masking system looks pretty nice with it!

 

I'd buy one of these in a New York Minute if they would Fedex one to me. I guess that sending a 10 foot long package internationally is always going to be problematic. We have nothing like Monoprice in Europe. Someone could make a real killing by becoming their European distributor...

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post #1003 of 3377 Old 11-12-2013, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Yes - but an 1830's cabin sounds soooooooooo inviting. We all have to make compromises in life and if I lived in a cabin like yours, I'd be happy to tolerate the black bars I guess wink.gif

Agreed. There are always compromises to be made.

I have to cover a window too when the screen is down. So, a fixed screen is a bummer in there.

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post #1004 of 3377 Old 11-12-2013, 11:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Cyberathlete View Post

Also shouldn't this long thread about which screen to buy, be moved to the projector screen forum? Folks looking for the Epson 5030 discussion will have to go through a few dozen posts if this discussion continues on smile.gif If it were 3-4 posts, it would be ok I guess, but since it has turned into an open discussion, I think we should move it to a different thread smile.gif

No offense, but just want to make sure that people who come here don't get lost in off topic discussions smile.gif

 

Yes, you are right and I agree. Thanks for reminding us to keep on topic. 

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post #1005 of 3377 Old 11-12-2013, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Cyberathlete View Post

Also shouldn't this long thread about which screen to buy, be moved to the projector screen forum? Folks looking for the Epson 5030 discussion will have to go through a few dozen posts if this discussion continues on smile.gif If it were 3-4 posts, it would be ok I guess, but since it has turned into an open discussion, I think we should move it to a different thread smile.gif

No offense, but just want to make sure that people who come here don't get lost in off topic discussions smile.gif

Fair enough, sorry for thread jacking!smile.gif

I really did not intend to do that. It just popped into my head as I was reading and considering the 5030.

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post #1006 of 3377 Old 11-12-2013, 11:38 AM
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Easy to get off topic. Now back on to the 5030. I can't wait to get one!
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post #1007 of 3377 Old 11-12-2013, 11:41 AM
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I should be placing my order this week or from what I've heard the 17th Nov is the Best Buy private shopping event where members get extra reward points and perks for purchases.
My 8350 is listed on eBay, hoping to get a good price for it smile.gif
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post #1008 of 3377 Old 11-12-2013, 12:11 PM
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Easy to get off topic. Now back on to the 5030. I can't wait to get one!

You and me both.

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post #1009 of 3377 Old 11-12-2013, 01:03 PM
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Projector Central Review:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/epson_home_cinema_5030ub_projector_review.htm?em

In this Projector Central article, the author states:

"The Home Cinema 5030UB's ideal operation mode for home theater is called THX. After calibration, with the lens at its widest angle setting, our test unit produced 645 lumens with the lamp set to full power and 479 lumens at low power. In a darkened theater room, this is enough light for a 120" diagonal 1.3-gain 16:9 screen at full power, or more than enough for a 100" diagonal screen at low power. Larger screen sizes are easily attainable using the 5030UB's Cinema, Natural, or Living Room image modes, or a color-adjusted Dynamic mode. While the 5030UB is great for home theater on screens of 120" diagonal and above, there is a case to be made for a 100" diagonal screen of about 1.1 gain. In THX mode, even accounting for 20-30% light loss from using the center of the projector's zoom range, the picture is bright and enticing at 100 inches."

I currently own an Epson 8700UB. Is the brighness of the 5030 only brighter as compared to the 8700UB in the Dynamic setting and Living Room setting? Or do all of the the movie settings such as THX also appear brighter? I have a 108" screen 1.0 gain 16:9 screen that I use primarily for movie watching using the Theater Black 2 setting. It seems bright enough except in very dark nightime scenes. I was hoping for more brightness in the movie settings for the 5030 in expectation of getting a larger screen. The Projector Central article suggests 1.1 gain screen should be about 100 inches in THX for the 5030 which is smaller than my current screen.

Also, do the movie settings send less power to the bub or is there a filter that blocks some of the light to change the appearance. Am I saving the bulb by using the movie settings vs. using the dynamic settings?
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post #1010 of 3377 Old 11-12-2013, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post

2-5 are not applicable for me.
I only watch Blu-ray movies.


How important is 3d to you?

On your screen wall once you factor in speakers, subwoofers, other equip if applicable and any other obstructions (air ducts, etc......) do you run out of height or width first? The reason I ask this is it could help make choosing which aspect screen much easier. In my setup for example I run out of height first so the choices were stick with a 46" high 1.78 screen which I used for years or a 46" high 2.35 screen which gave me 2' more of screen width for 2.35 films and more height as well. No brainer in my setup to go 2.35, but if you have the opposite scenario and you run out of width first, a 1.78 screen would probably make more sense since it would give you a bigger screen overall. If you are not restricted either way, I would go 2.35 with your strong emphasis on movies.

JVC 3D: Been there, done that, bought a DLP
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post #1011 of 3377 Old 11-12-2013, 01:42 PM
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3D is semi-important. If there were more content available it would be my first choice.

I probably run out width first. I was maxing out at around a 106-120" 16:9 screen.

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post #1012 of 3377 Old 11-12-2013, 01:47 PM
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3D is semi-important. If there were more content available it would be my first choice.

I probably run out width first. I was maxing out at around a 106-120" 16:9 screen.


In that case, and this is just my opinion, I say go with the 1.78 screen and the Epson. If you came back and told me you run out of height first and 3d was not that important, I would say go with a JVC (and its motorized lens/lens memory) and a 2.35 screen. 3d will be better on the Epson vs a JVC and since you can get a bigger 1.78 screen vs a 2.35, I would go that route. Not to mention doing the zoom method with a manual lens like the Epson has becomes a PITA after a while, especially if you are a perfectionist and like to get the picture framed perfectly on your screen and perfectly in focus (I did this exercise with my RS1 for a month before moving on to a motorized lens RS40/45 and it got old QUICK).

JVC 3D: Been there, done that, bought a DLP
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post #1013 of 3377 Old 11-12-2013, 01:47 PM
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Boy the more I hear the more I am intrigued with the 5030, I am also interested in the Sony VPL-50WES and the JVC-DLA-X35. 3D is a non factor for me, I am most concerned with black level and shadow detail.I wonder if the 5030 is in the same class as the Sony and the JVC?

James Reid:D
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post #1014 of 3377 Old 11-12-2013, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sancho101 View Post

Projector Central Review:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/epson_home_cinema_5030ub_projector_review.htm?em

In this Projector Central article, the author states:

"The Home Cinema 5030UB's ideal operation mode for home theater is called THX. After calibration, with the lens at its widest angle setting, our test unit produced 645 lumens with the lamp set to full power and 479 lumens at low power. In a darkened theater room, this is enough light for a 120" diagonal 1.3-gain 16:9 screen at full power, or more than enough for a 100" diagonal screen at low power. Larger screen sizes are easily attainable using the 5030UB's Cinema, Natural, or Living Room image modes, or a color-adjusted Dynamic mode. While the 5030UB is great for home theater on screens of 120" diagonal and above, there is a case to be made for a 100" diagonal screen of about 1.1 gain. In THX mode, even accounting for 20-30% light loss from using the center of the projector's zoom range, the picture is bright and enticing at 100 inches."

I currently own an Epson 8700UB. Is the brighness of the 5030 only brighter as compared to the 8700UB in the Dynamic setting and Living Room setting? Or do all of the the movie settings such as THX also appear brighter? I have a 108" screen 1.0 gain 16:9 screen that I use primarily for movie watching using the Theater Black 2 setting. It seems bright enough except in very dark nightime scenes. I was hoping for more brightness in the movie settings for the 5030 in expectation of getting a larger screen. The Projector Central article suggests 1.1 gain screen should be about 100 inches in THX for the 5030 which is smaller than my current screen.

Also, do the movie settings send less power to the bub or is there a filter that blocks some of the light to change the appearance. Am I saving the bulb by using the movie settings vs. using the dynamic settings?

I'm not sure, but what I did notice is the numbers are generally lower for the 5030 than then 5020 in both the ProjectorCentral review and the ProjectorReviews review.
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post #1015 of 3377 Old 11-12-2013, 01:53 PM
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In that case, and this is just my opinion, I say go with the 1.78 screen and the Epson. If you came back and told me you run out of height first and 3d was not that important, I would say go with a JVC (and its motorized lens/lens memory) and a 2.35 screen. 3d will be better on the Epson vs a JVC and since you can get a bigger 1.78 screen vs a 2.35, I would go that route. Not to mention doing the zoom method with a manual lens like the Epson has becomes a PITA after a while, especially if you are a perfectionist and like to get the picture framed perfectly on your screen and perfectly in focus (I did this exercise with my RS1 for a month before moving on to a motorized lens RS45 and it got old QUICK).

Thanks for the insight Toe!

I was eyeing up that JVC as well. They are very reasonable now.

Ugh! Why is everything so difficult!?!?

I don't want to hijack this thread any further. But, is there even any affordable tensioned 2.35:1 screens available?

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post #1016 of 3377 Old 11-12-2013, 02:03 PM
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Boy the more I hear the more I am intrigued with the 5030, I am also interested in the Sony VPL-50WES and the JVC-DLA-X35. 3D is a non factor for me, I am most concerned with black level and shadow detail.I wonder if the 5030 is in the same class as the Sony and the JVC?



Sounds good.

"

James Reid:D
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post #1017 of 3377 Old 11-12-2013, 02:04 PM
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My only concern with the 5030 is gaming lag. I have a dedicated HTGPC (Home Theater Gaming PC) in my HT and all the consoles hooked up.

The 8350 so far is the king of gaming projectors IMO. I can not detect a hint of lag especially in fighting games such as Street Fighter IV and Mortal Kombat. I also play with arcade sticks for the quickest response and twitch actions and the 8350 seems to have 0 delay.

I even had a friend of mine test out fighting games (and he competes in the local scene) and he confirmed that the projector had no noticeable lag (if any at all) and that he was comfortable playing on the 8350 since he could pull off all his combos.

-> Are there any lag times for the 8350 to compare against the 5030? Thanks!
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post #1018 of 3377 Old 11-12-2013, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Cyberathlete View Post

My only concern with the 5030 is gaming lag. I have a dedicated HTGPC (Home Theater Gaming PC) in my HT and all the consoles hooked up.

The 8350 so far is the king of gaming projectors IMO. I can not detect a hint of lag especially in fighting games such as Street Fighter IV and Mortal Kombat. I also play with arcade sticks for the quickest response and twitch actions and the 8350 seems to have 0 delay.

I even had a friend of mine test out fighting games (and he competes in the local scene) and he confirmed that the projector had no noticeable lag (if any at all) and that he was comfortable playing on the 8350 since he could pull off all his combos.

-> Are there any lag times for the 8350 to compare against the 5030? Thanks!

I went from an 8350 to the 5030ub and do a lot of HTPC gaming so I can probably help here smile.gif

First, for non-gaming - see some of my earlier posts in this thread. The 8350 is a great projector that when calibrated properly can produce a really nice image. The 5030ub is a best in class projector - you'd have to spend 5k to match it - that when calibrated properly produces a "holy sh&t" image, especially when stacked against the 8350. So, there's that smile.gif

Second, the 8350 was usually measured - pretty consistently - at around 20ms input lag. That is indeed very good for a projector. The 5030ub is much improved in this regard from the 5020ub - it has been measured at 38ms input lag. The caveat is that it's only when in "fast" image processing mode (the default is "fine"). I created a custom user setting for gaming and set that but I'm not sure it actually saves the fine/fast setting, which is a real drag because the option is buried in the advanced menu. I mean, it's not the worst process in the world, but a single button press would be nice.

Without fast mode it's been measured at 80ms without FI turned on and 110ms with FI. Since you wouldn't normally want FI on for games anyway the latter isn't an issue in my book.

The big question is, how sensitive are you to lag? I play a lot of FPS games, and my desktop monitor is one of the Asus 144hz "gaming" monitors with 1ms input lag. Yet I've played quite a bit of BF4 on my 5030ub since last week and it really hasn't been a problem for me, even when I didn't realize it was in "fine" mode. Input lag is one of those things where personal sensitivity plays in to it - I'd definitely notice 100ms, but not the difference between 38ms and 20ms.

There are better PJ's out there for gaming, for sure, but you might be ok with this one, and the trade up in image quality is pretty huge.
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post #1019 of 3377 Old 11-12-2013, 03:40 PM
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Thank you! For fast processing, is there a noticeable image degradation? Thanks!
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post #1020 of 3377 Old 11-12-2013, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyberathlete View Post

Thank you! For fast processing, is there a noticeable image degradation? Thanks!

Picture quality? No. The only place I noticed it was text on my HTPC desktop - smaller fonts got a little fuzzy looking, but nothing terrible. On my 360 I didn't really notice it at all.
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