Official Epson EH-TW 9200 5030UB Owners' Thread - Page 49 - AVS Forum
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post #1441 of 4395 Old 12-03-2013, 12:08 PM
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Screen masks pt 4: The final hanging solution.

So where we last left off a few pages ago (starting here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1490301/official-epson-eh-tw-9200-5030ub-owners-thread/1350#post_24005611 - though I plan to make my own thread in the DYI CIH forum, which is where this ultimately belongs) I had made a nice pair of masks to rid myself of the "black bars" with scope material. The masks themselves came out great - and cheap - but coming up with a way to easily mount and unmount them when needed was more of a challenge.

Velcro was out - didn't stick well, high potential for the backing to mess up my nice frame, overall it worked but no way was it a long term solution.

Next I went with magnets. These worked, but proved trickier to attach, and worse yet, caused dimples in the screen where they attached (to the plate behind the screen). If I had a hanging screen and could just snap up a pair of magnets when needed I might have considered it, but not a good solution for a fixed screen. The folks I have read about here that have done it made their own frames and mounted the magnets in them.

What to do, what to do? Browsed around hardware stores and the like until I came across these:

2j7x6FBl.jpg

Monkey hooks. Really it's just light-gauge wire that is pre-bent and thick enough to hold it's shape, but hey, it was $3 for a pack of ten.

Took them home and got to work. A small pair of vise grips and some fiddling and I had some nice little hooks. I bent the ends in as you can see because that's how I am attaching them to the foam board under the velvet - it holds better. Put a little drop of glue in with them (to keep the foam core from disintegrating over time) and some black electrical tape over the ends (to keep them from popping out) and they will hold all day.

I made 3 for the top mask as it hangs, and two for the bottom, as they "clip" in from the sides. See the pics below.

Last, there was the color problem - that's bare metal. In the dark you won't see them however I wasn't going to be happy with that, fortunately that's what flat black enamel spray paint is for:

z410eoFl.jpg

My final little innovation, such as it is, was to take some of the leftover velcro I had, cut it in to tiny strips, and attach it to the "hook" part of each hanger like so:

HyiZx0ol.jpg

That provides a little extra grip and more importantly protects my frame from scratches/etc.

Here's the top:

0s4yihHl.jpg

You can probably barely make them out in that picture - which, of course, is the point.

Bottom:

N6hZMdVl.jpg

These are a little trickier but work - need to do a little more vise work here to shape them right but the idea is sound.

Finished product with masks installed:

RSuxG6Hl.jpg

Again, notice how you can barely even see the hooks, and they are completely out of the way.

Took a bit of work to get the hook shape right for my frame, but in the end it made for a pair of masks that are very easy to put on and take off - maybe 10 seconds. Including the time it takes me to get up off the couch smile.gif

Overall I'd say this entire project was about $50 and a six-pack of beer (for me) however knowing what I know now I could have done it for under $30 and 3 beers (though I would have drunk the other 3 anyway).

Hopefully some of you find this useful - going to post the entire thing as one thread over in the DIY forum later.
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post #1442 of 4395 Old 12-03-2013, 01:56 PM
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I got these source codes from Epson today for the 6030, I assume the 5030 would be same. Will help with some remote setups

RS-232SourceCodesforPC6030_9387.xls 528k .xls file

My experience with Mackcam Warranties. Projector sent with HDMI issue, returned with Lens damage. Still no ETA. 6 Months waiting to date. Sporadic response from CS. Stated it was sent to Epson, but was sent to another repair shop.
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post #1443 of 4395 Old 12-03-2013, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ix View Post

Screen masks pt 4: The final hanging solution.

So where we last left off a few pages ago (starting here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1490301/official-epson-eh-tw-9200-5030ub-owners-thread/1350#post_24005611 - though I plan to make my own thread in the DYI CIH forum, which is where this ultimately belongs) I had made a nice pair of masks to rid myself of the "black bars" with scope material. The masks themselves came out great - and cheap - but coming up with a way to easily mount and unmount them when needed was more of a challenge.

Velcro was out - didn't stick well, high potential for the backing to mess up my nice frame, overall it worked but no way was it a long term solution.

Next I went with magnets. These worked, but proved trickier to attach, and worse yet, caused dimples in the screen where they attached (to the plate behind the screen). If I had a hanging screen and could just snap up a pair of magnets when needed I might have considered it, but not a good solution for a fixed screen. The folks I have read about here that have done it made their own frames and mounted the magnets in them.

What to do, what to do? Browsed around hardware stores and the like until I came across these:

2j7x6FBl.jpg

Monkey hooks. Really it's just light-gauge wire that is pre-bent and thick enough to hold it's shape, but hey, it was $3 for a pack of ten.

Took them home and got to work. A small pair of vise grips and some fiddling and I had some nice little hooks. I bent the ends in as you can see because that's how I am attaching them to the foam board under the velvet - it holds better. Put a little drop of glue in with them (to keep the foam core from disintegrating over time) and some black electrical tape over the ends (to keep them from popping out) and they will hold all day.

I made 3 for the top mask as it hangs, and two for the bottom, as they "clip" in from the sides. See the pics below.

Last, there was the color problem - that's bare metal. In the dark you won't see them however I wasn't going to be happy with that, fortunately that's what flat black enamel spray paint is for:

z410eoFl.jpg

My final little innovation, such as it is, was to take some of the leftover velcro I had, cut it in to tiny strips, and attach it to the "hook" part of each hanger like so:

HyiZx0ol.jpg

That provides a little extra grip and more importantly protects my frame from scratches/etc.

Here's the top:

0s4yihHl.jpg

You can probably barely make them out in that picture - which, of course, is the point.

Bottom:

N6hZMdVl.jpg

These are a little trickier but work - need to do a little more vise work here to shape them right but the idea is sound.

Finished product with masks installed:

RSuxG6Hl.jpg

Again, notice how you can barely even see the hooks, and they are completely out of the way.

Took a bit of work to get the hook shape right for my frame, but in the end it made for a pair of masks that are very easy to put on and take off - maybe 10 seconds. Including the time it takes me to get up off the couch smile.gif

Overall I'd say this entire project was about $50 and a six-pack of beer (for me) however knowing what I know now I could have done it for under $30 and 3 beers (though I would have drunk the other 3 anyway).

Hopefully some of you find this useful - going to post the entire thing as one thread over in the DIY forum later.
Thank you for all the great information. Very descriptive and great pictures. When adding the screen masks, what adjustments did you need to make on the projector? Did you need to soom in, refocus, adjust height/left/right of the picture? Thanks...

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post #1444 of 4395 Old 12-03-2013, 02:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Schmidt View Post
 
 
Thank you for all the great information. Very descriptive and great pictures. When adding the screen masks, what adjustments did you need to make on the projector? Did you need to soom in, refocus, adjust height/left/right of the picture? Thanks...

 

I made similar masks. I used a test pattern off one of my test discs which showed the screen area for 2.35:1 movies, measured the depth of the 'black bar' area and made my masks to suit. I didn't have to adjust anything at all on the PJ.  I’d second the posts that say these are a very worthwhile addition to any HT - one of the best value 'upgrades' you could make IMO. Mine take about 20 seconds to put up or take down and cost just a few dollars to make using plywood and stick-on velvet.

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post #1445 of 4395 Old 12-03-2013, 02:25 PM
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Randy, you shouldn't need to make a single projector adjustment for this masking system. You're just "covering up" the black bars that are projected above and below the 2.35 image. Nice and simple. I'm going to keep this in mind when I finally get a projector and screen.
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post #1446 of 4395 Old 12-03-2013, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkeeler10 View Post

Randy, you shouldn't need to make a single projector adjustment for this masking system. You're just "covering up" the black bars that are projected above and below the 2.35 image. Nice and simple. I'm going to keep this in mind when I finally get a projector and screen.
I didn't thinks so, but just wanted to make sure... So I guess I need to measure from the top and then from the bottom of my interior frame to the where the black bars end and the picture starts to size the height of the masks. Then the interior area from left to right to find the measurement for my 135" screen.

Thanks for the help!

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post #1447 of 4395 Old 12-04-2013, 12:48 AM
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Originally Posted by talon95 View Post

What size screen? Having a screen too small will increase perceived black levels. You want to calculate your true brightness based on screen area, gain, and projector light output. Definitely want a dark ceiling, at least the first few feet from the screen.
Thanks guys Its a 110'' screen and I have not calibrated it at all just using thx its just I have heard the term "' inky blacks with this pj and its anything but, I also cant see a difference with iris on or off? so might have to paint the ceiling black. cheers
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post #1448 of 4395 Old 12-04-2013, 04:33 AM
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lx - very nice job with the masking system and explanation, much appreciated.

Chriso - You should definitely notice a change in black levels on very dark scenes where the iris can really close down and you should be able to hear it working. If on an all black image with the unit in thx mode you cannot see a difference between the iris being off or set to high speed, I would suggest you could have a faulty unit depending on how much ambient light is also hitting the screen. Basically if you turn the pj off and look at your screen with the same ambient light present as when you are watching the pj, thats the blackest black youll ever get with the best pj out there. If this black level is already greyer or less black then what the epson can do without its iris, then obviously when you engage the iris there will not be any change in black level on your screen.

On brighter scenes which also have black in them, this is where light reflection from your pj screen to your room back on to your pj screen is going to start comprimising black levels. This can lead to a washed out image with grey blacks on these brighter scenes, but will have less of an impact on darker scenes because less light is hitting your screen, then walls, then back on to your screen to wash out your image.
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post #1449 of 4395 Old 12-04-2013, 05:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chriso1671 View Post


Thanks guys Its a 110'' screen and I have not calibrated it at all just using thx its just I have heard the term "' inky blacks with this pj and its anything but, I also cant see a difference with iris on or off? so might have to paint the ceiling black. cheers

Hi, this is maybe a long shot but... I just got my TW9200 yesterday and initially my feeling was just like yours, I was a bit disappointed with the black levels. Then I started to play around with the settings and found one that is named "color range" or something similar. Apparently, the default "auto" option doesn't figure out the range properly in my setup, so I changed the setting to "normal", which resulted in way better black levels.

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post #1450 of 4395 Old 12-04-2013, 07:14 AM
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Projector People made a quick recovery after selling out of 5030ubs over the weekend. My projector will be here tomorrow. Great responsiveness and customer service from Projector People. Given the lock on price right now, they are throwing in a Disney WoW disc and an extended warranty, which I think is the best deal going, for those looking to buy.
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post #1451 of 4395 Old 12-04-2013, 10:57 AM
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Potential silly question: Will a professional calibration void the warranty on the 5030ub? Thanks!
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post #1452 of 4395 Old 12-04-2013, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by willymo View Post

Potential silly question: Will a professional calibration void the warranty on the 5030ub? Thanks!
Unless there are settings that are supposed to be for the manufacturer only, I can't see why it would.
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post #1453 of 4395 Old 12-04-2013, 01:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Potential silly question: Will a professional calibration void the warranty on the 5030ub? Thanks!

 

No it won't. All that a calibration does is set the numbers in the CMS menus to the correct values for that particular unit and environment. IOW, just menu adjustments. You can take the PJ right back to factory settings just by pressing 'default' when in any menu.

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post #1454 of 4395 Old 12-04-2013, 03:08 PM
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Hi, I am having problems with the wireless hd transmiter. The signal reception is on 100% but ocassinaly i am losing the picture and I see "Performing wireless HD connection". This happens both on HTPC and PCH C-200 as source.
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post #1455 of 4395 Old 12-04-2013, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by lazarus18 View Post

Hi, I am having problems with the wireless hd transmiter. The signal reception is on 100% but ocassinaly i am losing the picture and I see "Performing wireless HD connection". This happens both on HTPC and PCH C-200 as source.

Well, that's why I've been saying this entire thread not to buy the built in one, but you're past that point so lets see:

If I'm not mistaken the built in wireless uses WHDI, not WiHD - it doesn't require line of sight with the transmitter, does it? - which operates in the upper 5ghz band. It shouldn't interfere with other wireless signals, even 5ghz WiFi, but of course there's often a big gap between "shouldn't" and "won't". So the first thing I'd check is the location of your Wifi router - where is it in relation to your PJ - and what bands it's outputting on. If you know how, try changing the channels it uses (on your router, you can't do that on the PJ as far as I know).

Also try moving the transmitter, particularly if it's near other A/V gear, which it probably is. How far away is it from the PJ? Anything in the way?

In the end, Wireless HDMI is tricky and when it works, it's great, but it's no sure thing and you may never get it to work perfectly. That's why I tell everyone who will listen to save the $300 premium for the UBE model and if you really want Wireless HDMI, buy a 3rd party kit (which are usually much cheaper) which at least gives you the option to try different models/types.

I used the IOGear model with my 5030ub until I got around to running another cable, it worked really well for the time I used it.
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post #1456 of 4395 Old 12-04-2013, 06:03 PM
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Have any of you guys seen the JVC DLA-X55R in action? I saw a demo at the local Magnolia and was pretty impressed. Do the blacks come close on the 5030? How do shadow details hold up with the auto iris engaged? Do they compare favorably to JVC's non iris shadow detail? Price is obviously a huge factor (maybe asking about the JVC 35 or 45 would be more appropriate). Input lag on the JVCs appears to be unacceptable, but I'm not crazy about the subtle blur in fast mode on the Epson...
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Have any of you guys seen the JVC DLA-X55R in action? I saw a demo at the local Magnolia and was pretty impressed. Do the blacks come close on the 5030? How do shadow details hold up with the auto iris engaged? Do they compare favorably to JVC's non iris shadow detail? Price is obviously a huge factor (maybe asking about the JVC 35 or 45 would be more appropriate). Input lag on the JVCs appears to be unacceptable, but I'm not crazy about the subtle blur in fast mode on the Epson...

Have you seen the "subtle blur" of the Epson or only read about it? I too was concerned about this until I received my 6030 today and checked it out. Subtle is the key word, it's very acceptable and the average person wouldn't notice it even if you pointed it out.
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This just came in the mail today!  I'm still a couple weeks away from my basement spare room being finished, but at least now I have everything ready and can ensure it's all in the right place before the drywall goes up.  I've been following this thread for weeks and can't wait to see it in person.

 

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post #1459 of 4395 Old 12-04-2013, 07:26 PM
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Any recommended settings for the INPUT SIGNAL when viewing 3D or 2D Blu Ray movies? Should i keep this at "auto" or go to either "YCbCr" or "YPbPr" ?
What about the setting for the color separation on the Blu Ray player for 3D and 2D? Should it stay on Auto or YCbCr 4:2:2 , YCbCr 4:4:4 or RGB
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post #1460 of 4395 Old 12-04-2013, 09:05 PM
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Another forum member gave me this tip to determine my iris was in fact working. "If you have the projector menu displayed during a dark scene, with the iris on, and when you exit the menu, the auto iris lowers the light output - you can observe this easily. Similarly, when the Auto Iris is off, and you exit menu display, there is no change in the light output from the projector." I could then clearly see the effect of the iris and with movie content it works well, just doesn't jump out you which I think is a good thing.
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post #1461 of 4395 Old 12-04-2013, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post

Another forum member gave me this tip to determine my iris was in fact working. "If you have the projector menu displayed during a dark scene, with the iris on, and when you exit the menu, the auto iris lowers the light output - you can observe this easily. Similarly, when the Auto Iris is off, and you exit menu display, there is no change in the light output from the projector." I could then clearly see the effect of the iris and with movie content it works well, just doesn't jump out you which I think is a good thing.
OK thanks for that I will check it tonight! I watched monsters v aliens in 3D last night and it was the best 3D I have seen! blacks did look good after a little tweaking and then watched I robot and blacks looked ok so I am extremely happy now I think with calibration. it will be stunning also convergence looks very goog to me. Chris
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post #1462 of 4395 Old 12-05-2013, 05:19 AM
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Sounds like a good start hope it continues!
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post #1463 of 4395 Old 12-05-2013, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post

Another forum member gave me this tip to determine my iris was in fact working. "If you have the projector menu displayed during a dark scene, with the iris on, and when you exit the menu, the auto iris lowers the light output - you can observe this easily. Similarly, when the Auto Iris is off, and you exit menu display, there is no change in the light output from the projector." I could then clearly see the effect of the iris and with movie content it works well, just doesn't jump out you which I think is a good thing.

I was going to post on this very subject. I know my Iris works. However, I was playing around with it last night by shutting it off, then back on. I noticed no difference in the blacks in my setup! In fact, I was watching star trek into darkness and actually felt that the letterbox bars looked a little deeper with it off! Am I seeing things? It seems that the blacks appear more "stable" to me with the iris turned off, in my setup (I also have the super white turned off). Could it be because of my short throw (I can't go back any further)? I'm throwing about 10.5 feet away from a 100 inch white drop down screen. I'm going to try turning the Iris off with 3d to see if I notice the same thing, and I'm going to leave it off until further notice to do some more critical viewing until I get my projector professionally calibrated on Saturday. I'll see what the calibrator recommends.

Anyone else see something similar in their setups? Thanks....smile.gif
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post #1464 of 4395 Old 12-05-2013, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crussell1492 View Post

Pro Calibration Done Today
Looks fantastic
He started with B&W Cinema Mode as that was the most accurate setting out of the box
ended up around 20 fl, as opposed to the 6 fl that B&W offered out of the box, not quite as bright as Dynamic (26 fl out of box) but looks really great in my dark, but not cave-like living room

Color Mode B&W Cinema
Brightness -1
Contrast 14
Color Saturation 11
Tint -3
Sharpness Advanced, See Below
Color temp -2
Skin Tone 3
Gamma 2
RGB
Offset R -13
Offset G -3
Offset B -1
Gain R -9
Gain G 4
Gain B -11
RGBCMY
R -16, 9, 22
G 0,18,2
B -11,18,-13
C 12,22,18
M 16,-4, 43
Y -1,0,0
Epson Super White Off

Advanced Sharpness
Thin Line 8
Thick Line 6
Vert Line 0
Horiz Line 0

Thanks! Have you noticed a difference in the blacks, primarily in letterbox bars? Also, is your Iris on or off, normal or fast? Thanks again!
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post #1465 of 4395 Old 12-05-2013, 08:54 AM
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Have you seen the "subtle blur" of the Epson or only read about it? I too was concerned about this until I received my 6030 today and checked it out. Subtle is the key word, it's very acceptable and the average person wouldn't notice it even if you pointed it out.

In pics and in videos. I'm not average. More OCD. Anyway, still wondering about the overall picture of the JVC 35/45/55 vs the 5030 in a completely light controlled room.
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post #1466 of 4395 Old 12-05-2013, 09:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Another forum member gave me this tip to determine my iris was in fact working. "If you have the projector menu displayed during a dark scene, with the iris on, and when you exit the menu, the auto iris lowers the light output - you can observe this easily. Similarly, when the Auto Iris is off, and you exit menu display, there is no change in the light output from the projector." I could then clearly see the effect of the iris and with movie content it works well, just doesn't jump out you which I think is a good thing.

I was going to post on this very subject. I know my Iris works. However, I was playing around with it last night by shutting it off, then back on. I noticed no difference in the blacks in my setup! In fact, I was watching star trek into darkness and actually felt that the letterbox bars looked a little deeper with it off! Am I seeing things? It seems that the blacks appear more "stable" to me with the iris turned off, in my setup (I also have the super white turned off). Could it be because of my short throw (I can't go back any further)? I'm throwing about 10.5 feet away from a 100 inch white drop down screen. I'm going to try turning the Iris off with 3d to see if I notice the same thing, and I'm going to leave it off until further notice to do some more critical viewing until I get my projector professionally calibrated on Saturday. I'll see what the calibrator recommends.

Anyone else see something similar in their setups? Thanks....smile.gif

 

Turning the automatic iris on and off doesn't, in itself, have any effect on the blacks. The iris only works when the scene brightness drops by a certain level - when the iris 'sees' this happen, it closes down to give the appearance of better blacks. To test it you need to do something to make the on-screen scene go from mixed black and white to just black. One suggestion has already been made, which is to set the BD player to a black scene, with it on pause, and then put up the Epson menu. You will hear (and see) the iris working as you show and remove the menu.

 

It's nothing to do with the throw - I am throwing 9 feet and my iris is working perfectly.

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post #1467 of 4395 Old 12-05-2013, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Turning the automatic iris on and off doesn't, in itself, have any effect on the blacks. The iris only works when the scene brightness drops by a certain level - when the iris 'sees' this happen, it closes down to give the appearance of better blacks. To test it you need to do something to make the on-screen scene go from mixed black and white to just black. One suggestion has already been made, which is to set the BD player to a black scene, with it on pause, and then put up the Epson menu. You will hear (and see) the iris working as you show and remove the menu.

It's nothing to do with the throw - I am throwing 9 feet and my iris is working perfectly.

Thanks. I know it's working, but what I'm saying is last night as I was playing around with it, the picture looked a little better with it off. Do you notice a difference in your blacks with it on? Also, if it is "off", does that mean the iris is fixed at its widest point?
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post #1468 of 4395 Old 12-05-2013, 09:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Pro Calibration Done Today
Looks fantastic
He started with B&W Cinema Mode as that was the most accurate setting out of the box
ended up around 20 fl, as opposed to the 6 fl that B&W offered out of the box, not quite as bright as Dynamic (26 fl out of box) but looks really great in my dark, but not cave-like living room

Color Mode B&W Cinema
Brightness -1
Contrast 14
Color Saturation 11
Tint -3
Sharpness Advanced, See Below
Color temp -2
Skin Tone 3
Gamma 2
RGB
Offset R -13
Offset G -3
Offset B -1
Gain R -9
Gain G 4
Gain B -11
RGBCMY
R -16, 9, 22
G 0,18,2
B -11,18,-13
C 12,22,18
M 16,-4, 43
Y -1,0,0
Epson Super White Off

Advanced Sharpness
Thin Line 8
Thick Line 6
Vert Line 0
Horiz Line 0

Thanks! Have you noticed a difference in the blacks, primarily in letterbox bars? Also, is your Iris on or off, normal or fast? Thanks again!

 

You can't 'calibrate' as such for better blacks. To set the black level (brightness) one of the common test discs is all you need - just adjust it so that the black bars below black are just invisible. That is the best black that the PJ (any PJ) is capable of. Calibration will set the gray scale correctly and the colour saturation, luminosity and hue - but how well the PJ can do black is just a fact of the PJ's design and build.

 

The PJ doesn't 'project' blacks - black is just the absence of light and how much light a PJ is still throwing when it is meant to be showing an all-black scene is a function of the PJ and its design (and price). 

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post #1469 of 4395 Old 12-05-2013, 09:28 AM
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No change in blacks, I am having the guy come back this weekend as the skin tones are too red. I will repost results
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post #1470 of 4395 Old 12-05-2013, 09:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Turning the automatic iris on and off doesn't, in itself, have any effect on the blacks. The iris only works when the scene brightness drops by a certain level - when the iris 'sees' this happen, it closes down to give the appearance of better blacks. To test it you need to do something to make the on-screen scene go from mixed black and white to just black. One suggestion has already been made, which is to set the BD player to a black scene, with it on pause, and then put up the Epson menu. You will hear (and see) the iris working as you show and remove the menu.

It's nothing to do with the throw - I am throwing 9 feet and my iris is working perfectly.

Thanks. I know it's working, but what I'm saying is last night as I was playing around with it, the picture looked a little better with it off. Do you notice a difference in your blacks with it on? Also, if it is "off", does that mean the iris is fixed at its widest point?

 

OK. I assume you can hear it working if the room is very quiet?  I can hear mine easily if there is no content playing (it is almost directly above my head - about 4 feet up).

 

The difference I see when auto iris is engaged is just what I'd expect - deeper perceived blacks. It is quite noticeable on certain scenes and under test of the sort described above. The light level drops noticeably as the iris engages,. This is with the iris in high speed mode - I assume yours is in HS mode when you are using it?

 

I believe that when auto iris is disengaged via the menus that the iris will be wide open, but this is speculation. It could be wide open or less than wide open and it will still shut down dramatically when the right picture conditions present themselves.  The only way to test it is with dynamically changing conditions - you can't see any effect on a static picture.

 

What do you see when doing the 'menu on screen and off' test?  Do it both with auto iris on and off - you should see the blacks get darker when auto iris is on and you exit the menu, and you should see no difference at all when it is off. 

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