Official Epson EH-TW 9200 5030UB Owners' Thread - Page 61 - AVS Forum
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post #1801 of 4409 Old 12-20-2013, 11:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by SolRebel View Post
 
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Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post


I'm doing it, and changing the aspect ratio is simple as long as you can easily reach the controls (takes less than 30 seconds with a bit of practice). I would recommend putting enough black felt above and below the screen to contain the black bars, if you want things to look perfect for scope movies.

For some reason I don't find the bars at the left and right of 16:9 material too distracting, and I don't bother to mask them. You can see the edges of the screen during bright scenes (just by reflected light from the room), but in a dark room they basically disappear in dark scenes.

This is good info as I'm planning on a similar set up and was wondering how important side masking would be for 16:9 stuff. I am curious about your recomendation to put enough felt above and below the screen to contain the black bars. So you are saying the black bars that overshoot the 2.4 1 screen when watching scope material is distracting on the wall? Kind of a bummer, as I think the screen alone would look nice on its own and is kinf of the whole point of getting a scone screen. Think you could post a pic or two of your set up?

 

Thanks for the infoz

 

Well the black bars still get projected of course, but they are all but invisible on any sort of dark wall. Velvet is the best idea but you can probably get away with just the usual dark screen wall.

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post #1802 of 4409 Old 12-20-2013, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by reanimator View Post

So in my opinion, if you're sitting 12 feet away from a 135" or smaller screen, I don't think you'll have any screen-door issues.

The Panasonic smooth-screen feature does a great job of hiding screen-door-effect, but it also makes the overall image somewhat softer. Again, if you're seated 12 feet away you probably won't see any screen-door -- but if you go with the AE8000 you'll almost certainly be getting a softer image at 12 feet than the 5030.

+1.

Currently I sit 10 feet from a 110" screen and see no SDE with 20/20 vision. The projector is 12 feet from the screen. I'm upgrading to a 115" screen at the same seating distance, and don't anticipate seeing any SDE with that combo either.

IMHO Epson's "SDE issue" is overblown, the Epson may have slightly worse SDE than some other projectors, but regardless you have to be quite close to a screen to see SDE -- uncomfortably close for most people.
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post #1803 of 4409 Old 12-20-2013, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by reanimator View Post

No question that the Epson will show much more screen-door than the Panasonic, it's really more a question of how close you're sitting. At 9 feet, I freely admit that I'm sitting a bit too close to a 135" screen. At 9 feet, I can see slight screen-door-effect -- but it's normally limited to picture area that's whitish in color. With the AE3000 and smooth-screen, there was never any visible screen door at any seating distance.

This is what I did -- once I installed the 5030, I found an image that revealed a lot of screen-door. I kept my eyes fixed on the pixel grid, then started slowly walking backwards until the screen-door was no longer visible to my eyes. As fate would have it, it was right around the 12 feet mark you were asking about. So in my opinion, if you're sitting 12 feet away from a 135" or smaller screen, I don't think you'll have any screen-door issues.

The Panasonic smooth-screen feature does a great job of hiding screen-door-effect, but it also makes the overall image somewhat softer. Again, if you're seated 12 feet away you probably won't see any screen-door -- but if you go with the AE8000 you'll almost certainly be getting a softer image at 12 feet than the 5030.

I was also torn between the 5030 and the 8000. Especially on Black Friday when the price of the Panasonic fell through the floor. If cost was the main issue, I would have gone with the 8000. If I had a 2.35 ratio screen (cinemascope) I probably would have gone with the 8000 for its lens-memory feature. But I don't, my screen is 16x9.

Also, the fact that the 8000 has already been out for over a year, whereas the 5030 streeted only in the past couple of months was one factor. The rumors that Panasonic is bailing out of the home theater market also played a part. More importantly, there also seems to be a consistent quality-control issue with the Panasonic projector that was a concern. I balanced that with a strong consensus among professionals and amateurs alike that the Epson just throws a better picture.

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Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

One potentially big issue with the Panasonic 8000 is convergence. On my Panny 4000, there was no way to adjust it. I think I read that there's still no convergence control on the 8000, but I'm not sure about that. My 4000's convergence was far enough off that you could see color fringing fairly easily. To me, this is worse than SDE on the 5030. I sit about 10' from a 110" screen, and SDE isn't an issue for me.

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Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

I'm doing it, and changing the aspect ratio is simple as long as you can easily reach the controls (takes less than 30 seconds with a bit of practice). I would recommend putting enough black felt above and below the screen to contain the black bars, if you want things to look perfect for scope movies.

For some reason I don't find the bars at the left and right of 16:9 material too distracting, and I don't bother to mask them. You can see the edges of the screen during bright scenes (just by reflected light from the room), but in a dark room they basically disappear in dark scenes.

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Originally Posted by Justin Morgan View Post

+1.

Currently I sit 10 feet from a 110" screen and see no SDE with 20/20 vision. The projector is 12 feet from the screen. I'm upgrading to a 115" screen at the same seating distance, and don't anticipate seeing any SDE with that combo either.

IMHO Epson's "SDE issue" is overblown, the Epson may have slightly worse SDE than some other projectors, but regardless you have to be quite close to a screen to see SDE -- uncomfortably close for most people.

Good to hear, good to hear, good to hear!
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post #1804 of 4409 Old 12-20-2013, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by curttard View Post

When you zoom in or out to change aspect ratios, do you also have to adjust lens shift, or does the image stay centered? And how about focus, do you find that changes as well?

You'll need to adjust the lens shift as well (how much depends on how central you have everything mounted). Filling the screen exactly takes a bit of back and forth between the zoom and the lens shift controls, but you soon get used to it. Pressing the Pattern button on the remote gives you a solid bright image that's easy to align to the screen edges (don't try to do it with a dark picture).

I don't think focus really changes with zoom, but it's easy to nudge the focus ring while zooming. The best thing to focus on is the menu text, so after switching aspect ratios bring up the menu and see if the focus needs a touch up. For focussing use the edge of the menu, since that's about halfway from the centre to the edge of the screen, and will give you better focus uniformity than if you just make the centre as sharp as possible.

If you have trouble seeing how good the focus is from the back of the room, use binoculars (seriously). Sounds complicated, but it doesn't take that long and it's worth it for scope movies. But make sure you check the aspect ratio in advance, and get it setup properly before any guests sit down! Also, it's a bit of a pain if anybody wants to watch the extras after a 2.35:1 movie, because they will be 16:9 and spill over the screen. If only Epson included a 0.75x zoom mode, that problem would be solved with one button press.
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post #1805 of 4409 Old 12-20-2013, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by sm4llz View Post

so is anybody using a 2.35 screen? We will primarily be using the projector for movies so it seems to make sense buying a 2.35 screen. We use subtitles for all movies since my fiance is hard of hearing but my WD Live Hub let me move the subtitle up so they are not on the black bars when watching something on our existing 60" LG LCD.

This seems to come up every 10 pages or so in this thread smile.gif

The 5030/6030 series aren't great PJ's for scope screens. The 6030 has Anamorphic stretch, so you can use it with a lens if you feel like dropping a few grand extra on one of those. Neither one has lens memory.

As others have posted, you can zoom to your hearts content manually if the PJ is in easy reach, however you'll probably need to refocus and maybe even re-shift each time. I mean, if you watch a LOT of 2:35/2:41 then maybe you can just leave it, but you'll run in to menus that are cut off, etc.

Search for my posts in this thread regarding making masks, which I find to be far more convenient, not to mention easier, to deal with. The quality between the two is the same - whether you zoom or mask you still aren't using every single pixel, if you really care about that then you need to go the Anamorphic lens route and either use the 6030 or buy an external scaler.

I watch quite a bit of scope (widescreen) material and I think the masks work just great. In fact I rarely take them off since I can mostly see the menus on the masks, enough to work them anyway. When I do watch 1:85 or 1:78 material (HDTV, Pacific Rim, etc) it's easy to take off and I get my full screen back.

If you really want to zoom instead with a scope screen then I recommend the AE8000u which has lens memory.

EDIT: I posted my full DIY mask thread right here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1506798/my-diy-masks-with-an-elite-106-screen
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post #1806 of 4409 Old 12-20-2013, 05:22 PM
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Just got my 5030. The picture is very nice although I admit I expected a better jump in black level coming from the Mits HC4000.

Unfortunately I've got to send it back. Using a 106" wide 2.35 screen (equivalent projection size of a 123" 16:9) and sitting 7-8ft away, the screen door is immediately visible. I've got nothing close to 20-20 vision. Deal-breaker for us. Guess it's a JVC or stick with the Mits.
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post #1807 of 4409 Old 12-20-2013, 05:33 PM
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This seems to come up every 10 pages or so in this thread smile.gif

The 5030/6030 series aren't great PJ's for scope screens. The 6030 has Anamorphic stretch, so you can use it with a lens if you feel like dropping a few grand extra on one of those. Neither one has lens memory.

As others have posted, you can zoom to your hearts content manually if the PJ is in easy reach, however you'll probably need to refocus and maybe even re-shift each time. I mean, if you watch a LOT of 2:35/2:41 then maybe you can just leave it, but you'll run in to menus that are cut off, etc.

Search for my posts in this thread regarding making masks, which I find to be far more convenient, not to mention easier, to deal with. The quality between the two is the same - whether you zoom or mask you still aren't using every single pixel, if you really care about that then you need to go the Anamorphic lens route and either use the 6030 or buy an external scaler.

I watch quite a bit of scope (widescreen) material and I think the masks work just great. In fact I rarely take them off since I can mostly see the menus on the masks, enough to work them anyway. When I do watch 1:85 or 1:78 material (HDTV, Pacific Rim, etc) it's easy to take off and I get my full screen back.

If you really want to zoom instead with a scope screen then I recommend the AE8000u which has lens memory.

EDIT: I posted my full DIY mask thread right here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1506798/my-diy-masks-with-an-elite-106-screen

Thing is, some people want the image to be smaller with 16:9 material, so the zoom makes more sense for them. Example would be me, where I have a bulkhead that limits the height of my screen. In my case, I'd rather max out the screen to be as tall as possible and then use that constant height for both 16:9 and 2.35:1 by using a constant image height 2.35:1 screen and removable masks on the left and right for 16:9 content.

Also, from what I have read, using an anamorphic lens does not mean more data resolution. If anything, unless you get a very expensive one you are going to lose details through the process.

What I would like to know is if you have to continually adjust the zoom and shift after manually going to 2.35:1 mode as the projector warms up...
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post #1808 of 4409 Old 12-20-2013, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Viche View Post

Thing is, some people want the image to be smaller with 16:9 material, so the zoom makes more sense for them. Example would be me, where I have a bulkhead that limits the height of my screen. In my case, I'd rather max out the screen to be as tall as possible and then use that constant height for both 16:9 and 2.35:1 by using a constant image height 2.35:1 screen and removable masks on the left and right for 16:9 content.

Also, from what I have read, using an anamorphic lens does not mean more data resolution. If anything, unless you get a very expensive one you are going to lose details through the process.

What I would like to know is if you have to continually adjust the zoom and shift after manually going to 2.35:1 mode as the projector warms up...

No doubt there are going to be special cases like yours, but for most I suspect masking is a better option with this PJ.

No one is going to be able to tell you for sure what you are going to have to adjust because it depends on how and where you have it mounted - lens shift seems almost certain, focus maybe not but the wheels for it and zoom are so close together (and so very touchy) that I personally wouldn't be able to zoom without knocking the focus out half of the time. Face it, you are going to be carefully screwing around with the thing every time you change it smile.gif

I'm not one to tell you what's right for you, if that doesn't bother you have at it, personally if zooming was my thing I'd buy a PJ that makes doing so easier. This PJ is really meant to be dialed in and left alone.
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post #1809 of 4409 Old 12-20-2013, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Viche View Post

...What I would like to know is if you have to continually adjust the zoom and shift after manually going to 2.35:1 mode as the projector warms up...

I've not had any problem with the focus or position drifting as it warms up.
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post #1810 of 4409 Old 12-20-2013, 08:10 PM
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I've not had any problem with the focus or position drifting as it warms up.

Nor have I.

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post #1811 of 4409 Old 12-21-2013, 04:29 AM
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Im very interested in this projector. My actual unit is an "old" JVC DLA-RS1 and still really like it. I know that model has 6 years now so technology moves a lot in that time so decide to upgrade. Honestly don't want to spend several thousands for the new JVC models, but what I don't want is to loose the great black levels of my old good RS1 . When I bought it, this was the king over several brands in this area but maybe now is not that great because all those years has passed. If you have experience with my RS1, do you think that I will be happy with the results that Im going to get with this Epson against mine in the black levels area?... I really will appreciate your comments about this matter.
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post #1812 of 4409 Old 12-21-2013, 11:15 AM
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Im very interested in this projector. My actual unit is an "old" JVC DLA-RS1 and still really like it. I know that model has 6 years now so technology moves a lot in that time so decide to upgrade. Honestly don't want to spend several thousands for the new JVC models, but what I don't want is to loose the great black levels of my old good RS1 . When I bought it, this was the king over several brands in this area but maybe now is not that great because all those years has passed. If you have experience with my RS1, do you think that I will be happy with the results that Im going to get with this Epson against mine in the black levels area?... I really will appreciate your comments about this matter.

Projector Central gave the Epson 5030 and 6030 their 2013 Editor's Choice Award. The JVC DLA-X55R was also reviewed but did not earn the award. Here is a link for the reviews. They are very detailed. 

 

Hope this helps some. Black levels can be influenced by the screen gain as well. 

 

http://www.projectorcentral.com/home-theater-projectors.htm


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post #1813 of 4409 Old 12-21-2013, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by jorsan View Post

Im very interested in this projector. My actual unit is an "old" JVC DLA-RS1 and still really like it. I know that model has 6 years now so technology moves a lot in that time so decide to upgrade. Honestly don't want to spend several thousands for the new JVC models, but what I don't want is to loose the great black levels of my old good RS1 . When I bought it, this was the king over several brands in this area but maybe now is not that great because all those years has passed. If you have experience with my RS1, do you think that I will be happy with the results that Im going to get with this Epson against mine in the black levels area?... I really will appreciate your comments about this matter.
^^^

I'm curious about this also, as I too own the RS1 and am looking to upgrade. One thing I have been told is LCD has a different "look" to it than LCOS, and if you were used to the JVC it would be hard to change to an Epson. Another model to consider is the Sony HW55ES, which is also very highly rated, and is LCOS like the JVC. It's more expensive than the Epson, though.
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post #1814 of 4409 Old 12-21-2013, 11:48 AM
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^^^

I'm curious about this also, as I too own the RS1 and am looking to upgrade. One thing I have been told is LCD has a different "look" to it than LCOS, and if you were used to the JVC it would be hard to change to an Epson. Another model to consider is the Sony HW55ES, which is also very highly rated, and is LCOS like the JVC. It's more expensive than the Epson, though.

I went from a JVC RS40 to an Epson 6010 a couple of years ago, and it was an easy transition. Yes, they look different, but both look great and have their own strengths and weaknesses. I liked the Epson so much that I got the 5030 this year.

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post #1815 of 4409 Old 12-21-2013, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by TL5 View Post

^^^

I'm curious about this also, as I too own the RS1 and am looking to upgrade. One thing I have been told is LCD has a different "look" to it than LCOS, and if you were used to the JVC it would be hard to change to an Epson. Another model to consider is the Sony HW55ES, which is also very highly rated, and is LCOS like the JVC. It's more expensive than the Epson, though.
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Originally Posted by curttard View Post

Just got my 5030. The picture is very nice although I admit I expected a better jump in black level coming from the Mits HC4000.

Unfortunately I've got to send it back. Using a 106" wide 2.35 screen (equivalent projection size of a 123" 16:9) and sitting 7-8ft away, the screen door is immediately visible. I've got nothing close to 20-20 vision. Deal-breaker for us. Guess it's a JVC or stick with the Mits.

Probably a lot of folks are in your shoes, with older JVCs but looking at new Epsons.

I just switched from an RS15 (two years newer than RS1) to a 6030. It seems like the black levels are not really an improvement, more of a lateral move. But that's pretty good considering JVCs were the best in the business four years ago. And I occasionally hear muted croaks from the Epson's dynamic iris, although it's not objectionable. Bottom line, the Epson is not a step backward AFAICT. Also, having a Darbee attached to the Epson helps the perception of dynamic range.

There are so many upsides to the Epson. For example, the 6030 has way more light output, and of course it has the best 3D in its price range (other than DLPs, which I can't use because my eyes are sensitive to RBE). The Epson also has FI in 2D and 3D, which looks good at the low or medium setting IMHO because it gets rid of the 24p judder during fast pans.

AVS has a Classifieds forum where you can sell your RS1 to help offset the cost of a new Epson. The Epson is already very affordable (relative to other mid-to-high end projectors) making it a pretty good value.

If you're strictly into 2D, and don't mind waiting about 2-3 years, the price of 4K projectors will probably start to come down into the "somewhat affordable" range, so if you're happy with the JVC for now, waiting is always another option.

Bottom line, I'm happy with the transition from older JVC to new Epson.
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post #1816 of 4409 Old 12-21-2013, 02:30 PM
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Same here. My Samsung plasma doesn't struggle like the Epson does.

I have found that setting Deinterlacing to "Auto/Film" is way better than the "Video" setting.
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post #1817 of 4409 Old 12-21-2013, 04:49 PM
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How much 'better' would this projector look compared to a Benq w1070? How is the 3D for crosstalk? For games, low inputlag? And (important to me) how is the wireless HDMI (lag etc) ?

anyone?
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post #1818 of 4409 Old 12-21-2013, 04:53 PM
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Thanks to all for the input. Will think about your comments for sure.
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post #1819 of 4409 Old 12-21-2013, 06:08 PM
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anyone?
I don't own the 1070 but have owned the BenQ W10000 and still have an Infocus IN83. In general DLP is very sharp, but using the 5030 with a Darbee in the loop I don't feel slighted at all. In terms of 3D, crosstalk is occasional but not prevalent IMO. I had a forum member over who has a 1070 and he commented that my 3D looked good. I can't answer the areas of your question.
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post #1820 of 4409 Old 12-21-2013, 06:14 PM
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How much 'better' would this projector look compared to a Benq w1070? How is the 3D for crosstalk? For games, low inputlag? And (important to me) how is the wireless HDMI (lag etc) ?

From what I've read (since I haven't see a 1070), the Epson will look considerably better for 2D - deeper blacks and better contrast. The Epson has much better placement flexibility, better throw range, no RBE. The Epson 5030 won't beat the BenQ 1070 for ghosting, but it's one of the best non-DLP 3D projectors available in that area. I'm fairly picky as far as ghosting goes, but I can live with the Epson. Nothing's perfect. If a projector wins in one way, it usually loses in another. It's all relative and depends on your budget and tolerance for particular flaws. Of course, the BenQ is considerably cheaper, even given the two pairs of glasses that come with the Epson.

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post #1821 of 4409 Old 12-21-2013, 10:03 PM
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New pro calibration results.
I posted my settings after a pro calibration, but the flesh tones had too much red, so they guy came back and made some adjustments.
Here are the results :
Epson 5030 Kevin Wall Sound Environments Calibration
 
Color Mode B&W Cinema
 
Brightness                           -1
 
Contrast                               14
 
Color Saturation               10
 
Tint                                        -3
 
Sharpness                           Advanced, See Below
 
Color temp                         -2
 
Skin Tone                            5
 
Gamma                                2
 
RGB
 
Offset R                               -14
 
Offset G                               -3
 
Offset B                               -2
 
Gain R                                   -14
 
Gain G                                  4
 
Gain B                                   -11
 
RGBCMY
 
R                                             -13,-3,22
 
G                                             0,18,2
 
B                                             -11,18,-13
 
C                                             12,22,18
 
M                                            16,-4, 43
 
Y                                              -1,0,0
 
Epson Super White         Off
 
 
 
Advanced Sharpness
 
Thin Line                              8
 
Thick Line                            6
 
Vert Line                              0
 
Horiz Line                            0
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

  
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post #1822 of 4409 Old 12-22-2013, 06:31 AM
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Seems strange to start with the B&W mode. It means huge adjustments are needed to get a decent colour image, so I'm not sure how useful those results are to anyone else. I would have started with a different mode.
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post #1823 of 4409 Old 12-22-2013, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Morgan View Post

+1.

Currently I sit 10 feet from a 110" screen and see no SDE with 20/20 vision. The projector is 12 feet from the screen. I'm upgrading to a 115" screen at the same seating distance, and don't anticipate seeing any SDE with that combo either.

IMHO Epson's "SDE issue" is overblown, the Epson may have slightly worse SDE than some other projectors, but regardless you have to be quite close to a screen to see SDE -- uncomfortably close for most people.

I sit about 14 feet from a 133" screen. I do not find any SDE distracting at this distance.
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post #1824 of 4409 Old 12-22-2013, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

Seems strange to start with the B&W mode. It means huge adjustments are needed to get a decent colour image, so I'm not sure how useful those results are to anyone else. I would have started with a different mode.

I agree, seemed strange, but he showed me that B&W did indeed have the best color accuracy of the out of the box settings.

The results are a very bright, very accurate picture to my eyes.
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post #1825 of 4409 Old 12-22-2013, 01:03 PM
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Thanks for posting those calibrations. Will try as well. Good thing there are plenty of memory settings to save.

Sent from my G S4
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post #1826 of 4409 Old 12-22-2013, 02:22 PM
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Just pulled the trigger. Paid $2328.71 after shipping from Vision HD. Can't wait to play with it, it'll be my first projector but I've wanted one for several years.
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post #1827 of 4409 Old 12-22-2013, 02:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lapino View Post

How much 'better' would this projector look compared to a Benq w1070? How is the 3D for crosstalk? For games, low inputlag? And (important to me) how is the wireless HDMI (lag etc) ?

 

I went from the w1070 to the 5030.The w1070 was my first PJ and it was terrific both as a PJ and as a learning tool. The w1070 produced a very sharp, vibrant image lacking only in the deepest black levels - this was in a dedicated room, painted in black and dark gray and fully light controlled. My main aim in upgrading was to get much deeper blacks and the 5030 has not disappointed. It also has vastly superior placement flexibility thanks to the good vertical and horizontal shift. The lack of RBE is also appreciated. I am using the 5030 with a Darblett and I do not feel I am giving anything away in terms of image sharpness. On 3D the w1070 was better in terms of lack of crosstalk but of course still exhibited the relatively poor black levels of the w1070 used in any mode. I don't watch very much 3D and find the 5030 is easily good enough for me. I can’t comment on games or input lag as they are irrelevant to my use of the unit. 

 

I'd say the Epson is a significant upgrade over the BenQ in most respects, especially black levels, but one has to remember that is costs 4 times the price here in the UK. 

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post #1828 of 4409 Old 12-22-2013, 02:38 PM
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well the only thing keeping me from getting a tw7200 or tw9200 is input lag. No way for me to buy and test, so need to rely on user input.
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post #1829 of 4409 Old 12-22-2013, 02:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lapino View Post

well the only thing keeping me from getting a tw7200 or tw9200 is input lag. No way for me to buy and test, so need to rely on user input.

 

Don't the reviews cover this?  There are a few good reviews linked in the first posts of the thread.

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post #1830 of 4409 Old 12-22-2013, 03:00 PM
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I know but I rather rely on user experience
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Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

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