Official Epson EH-TW 9200 5030UB Owners' Thread - Page 88 - AVS Forum
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post #2611 of 3470 Old 03-17-2014, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by bigbadbob View Post

Thanks for all the input guys. Our family watches more movies than tv so I'm leaning towards the 2.35. I like the Falcon perf screen so I think that's the way to go... for now or until my wife changes my mind!

You don't want to manually shift/zoom and focus every time. I'd be worried that the mechanism for this would not be happy over time.

Go 2.35 and have Mike get you a Lumagen Mini for aspect ratio control, proper blanking as well as lots of other cool stuff a pro calibrator can do to make your picture looks its best.
http://shop.avscience.com/Lumagen-Radiance-Mini-3D_p_118.html
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post #2612 of 3470 Old 03-17-2014, 10:56 AM
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Thanks Trans.

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post #2613 of 3470 Old 03-17-2014, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by drew231506 View Post

Oh, my mistake, I think it's actually 13 x13. I was worried about the sound from the hvac system as well but the book case and additional insulation has provided more than enough sound insulation. I was also worried about the fan noise that so many complained about in this thread. I haven't even heard the fan yet, maybe my fan is broken or something. I listen to movies very loud also, a 747 could land on my roof and I don't think I'd notice it.

Very cool. My space is about that width as well. What did you use to insulate the back of the bookcase? I hate dealing with fiberglass. 40 hours building a 30 foot platform in our attic as well as re-mastic-ing all of our hvac connections up there has be never wanting to breath or handle that stuff again (yes I dressed properly and wore an air mask...still hated it). Is rocksol or whatever it is called less irritating?

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You will have to do more than just manually zoom. You will have to use the lens shift to drop the image to the right location. As you adjust the vertical lens shift, the image will shift diagonally some. This means you will need to adjust the horizontal lens shift as well. This means going back and forth a couple of times with vertical and horizontal lens shift. In other words, a pain the the ***. Something that I would not consider doing, especially if ceiling mounting the projector.

A couple guys up above said it literally takes them less than a minute to adjust aspect ratios. Why the disparity in opinions?
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post #2614 of 3470 Old 03-17-2014, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trans_lux View Post

You don't want to manually shift/zoom and focus every time. I'd be worried that the mechanism for this would not be happy over time.

Go 2.35 and have Mike get you a Lumagen Mini for aspect ratio control, proper blanking as well as lots of other cool stuff a pro calibrator can do to make your picture looks its best.
http://shop.avscience.com/Lumagen-Radiance-Mini-3D_p_118.html

I agree with you trans_lux, I would personally hate manually shifting and zooming/focusing every time I watched a 2.35/2.40 movie. You basically have three solutions in my mind if you don't want to keep manually shifting/zooming though: get an anamorphic lens, get a video processor (lumagen), or get a projector with lens memory. I chose to get a lumagen that way I could switch aspect ratios at the touch of the button, but I also couldn't afford a good anamorphic lens.
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post #2615 of 3470 Old 03-17-2014, 03:14 PM
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Crap. I do always compare what's on the box vs what IMDB says, but it's tough to tell before you buy online. Is there a thread somewhere that lists all of the Blu-Rays that have been butchered?
That's a cozy little room. I have a small unfinished space I have been thinking of converting to a DHT. Can you tell me the room and screen dimensions? Have any more pictures?

Viche, I usually check blu-ray.com and high-def digest.com for reviews of new release discs.  They always mention the aspect ratio and usually tell if it's been altered. hey also review the quality of the transfer. Also Amazon always lists the aspect ratio of the disc, but not if it's been altered.  Thanks for the IMDB tip.  I never thought to use them for aspect ratio info.  I found this list in the forums of blu-ray.com of altered movies compiled by forum users.  Here's the link: http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=180163 Hope that helps.

 

Snazzy looking basement there,drew231506. My home theatre is I'm my garage which is 45 ft.x 22.5 ft.

 

 I've been trying to decide if I go for the Sony 55es if it will be able to light up a 14 or 15 wide 2.35 screen. If I go with a screen that big  it still is within my field of vision from my current seating distance and is big enough that I won't have any real reduction in the image size I am used to when watching 16.9 content on my current screen. That's my theory, would appreciate any feedback from more experienced minds. As for masks, well, as I mentioned in a recent post I generally don't find the black bars distracting, but could always set up a masking system later.

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post #2616 of 3470 Old 03-17-2014, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by dmoneyman2323 View Post

I agree with you trans_lux, I would personally hate manually shifting and zooming/focusing every time I watched a 2.35/2.40 movie. You basically have three solutions in my mind if you don't want to keep manually shifting/zooming though: get an anamorphic lens, get a video processor (lumagen), or get a projector with lens memory. I chose to get a lumagen that way I could switch aspect ratios at the touch of the button, but I also couldn't afford a good anamorphic lens.

Anamorphic lenses are out of my price range and I believe that while they make the image brighter, they degrade sharpness a bit.
The only other projector with lens memory that is similar in price/quality to the 5030 is the panasonic 8000, but I've read many opinions that say that the 5030 has better picture quality.
What is a lumagen? How does it work? Does it negatively impact IQ at all? How much does it cost roughly?
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The Epson 6030 (TW9200) is the other projector I'm trying to choose between, but if I go for the 2.35 I'm not sure it would be bright enough.

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Viche, here's a link to the lumen website; http://www.lumagen.com  Looks pretty darn good, but the prices range from $1500 for the mini processor up to $5000 for the big boy with the middle three going $3300, $3500 and $4000.  Guess we pay for the best picture.  It's a PQ enhancement processor.  The latest model includes DarBee processing.  The device allows you to calibrate in greater depth and theoretically improve an SD source to HD quality.  Should do the opposite of negatively impacting image quality if the reviews are accurate.  Would love to have one but it might be awhile.

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Originally Posted by lapino View Post

Does it really make that much of a difference using an expensive player like the oppo compared to a ps3 or cheaper player like a Sony?


The Oppo has more bells and whistles for performing additional functions but as far as playing a normal Blu-ray, the picture quality is the same whether you use a PS3 or a cheaper Blu-ray player.

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Can someone help answer why my lens shift function has much more distance upward than downward. I am trying to ceiling mount my 5030 at 15' from a 110" screen (16:9), ceiling is 9' high. 5030 is hanging 12" from ceiling and top of screen is 11" from ceiling. Using the lens shift I tracked from the midpoint how high it can go and how low it can go and to my surprise it is not equidistant. From the center point the lens shift up goes waaaay up to where I can have the picture in the middle of the ceiling but when I go downward, I have to go most of the way downward just to go down enough to project on the 110" screen and the lowest lens shift does not even go to the bottom of the screen wall. I tried both front projector and upside down like a ceiling mount both with the same result. Does my 5030 have a problem or am I as a newbie not understanding basics?
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post #2621 of 3470 Old 03-17-2014, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjenkins95 View Post

The Oppo has more bells and whistles for performing additional functions but as far as playing a normal Blu-ray, the picture quality is the same whether you use a PS3 or a cheaper Blu-ray player.
And all CD players sound the same rolleyes.gif
The OPPO 105 looks and sounds better than all the other disposable players.
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post #2622 of 3470 Old 03-17-2014, 07:37 PM
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What mount are people using for the 5030? I would like to mount it as flush to ceiling as possible. 92" ceiling with 6' riser underneath.

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post #2623 of 3470 Old 03-17-2014, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by kanerator View Post

Viche, here's a link to the lumen website; http://www.lumagen.com  Looks pretty darn good, but the prices range from $1500 for the mini processor up to $5000 for the big boy with the middle three going $3300, $3500 and $4000.  Guess we pay for the best picture.  It's a PQ enhancement processor.  The latest model includes DarBee processing.  The device allows you to calibrate in greater depth and theoretically improve an SD source to HD quality.  Should do the opposite of negatively impacting image quality if the reviews are accurate.  Would love to have one but it might be awhile.
IMHO a high quality display-projector or flat panel- with a properly configured & calibrated Lumagen is the only way to go.
The difference even with the little mini is astounding.
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post #2624 of 3470 Old 03-17-2014, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by rapchik55 View Post

Can someone help answer why my lens shift function has much more distance upward than downward. I am trying to ceiling mount my 5030 at 15' from a 110" screen (16:9), ceiling is 9' high. 5030 is hanging 12" from ceiling and top of screen is 11" from ceiling. Using the lens shift I tracked from the midpoint how high it can go and how low it can go and to my surprise it is not equidistant. From the center point the lens shift up goes waaaay up to where I can have the picture in the middle of the ceiling but when I go downward, I have to go most of the way downward just to go down enough to project on the 110" screen and the lowest lens shift does not even go to the bottom of the screen wall. I tried both front projector and upside down like a ceiling mount both with the same result. Does my 5030 have a problem or am I as a newbie not understanding basics?

If your screen is level vertically and your projector is level, then the lens shift range up and down is the same. If you have more lens shift in one direction, then the projector is tilted. The vertical lens shift is 96% up and down. So take the screen height and multiple by 0.96. That is the max lens shift in both directions and the starting point is the center of the screen. If you use any horizontal lens shift, then is subtracts from the amount of vertical lens shift available.

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post #2625 of 3470 Old 03-17-2014, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

If your screen is level vertically and your projector is level, then the lens shift range up and down is the same. If you have more lens shift in one direction, then the projector is tilted. The vertical lens shift is 96% up and down. So take the screen height and multiple by 0.96. That is the max lens shift in both directions and the starting point is the center of the screen. If you use any horizontal lens shift, then is subtracts from the amount of vertical lens shift available.

Thanks Mike. One follow up question...when you say "That is the max lens shift in both directions and the starting point is the center of the screen" you mean the center of wherever the projector is projecting the screen or the actual center of my mounted screen because if it is the latter then the midpoint of the projector screen at the lens shift halfway point is much higher than the center of the mounted screen.
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post #2626 of 3470 Old 03-18-2014, 05:23 AM
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Originally Posted by trans_lux View Post

And all CD players sound the same rolleyes.gif
The OPPO 105 looks and sounds better than all the other disposable players.




A digital signal is a digital signal. The PQ is the same.
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post #2627 of 3470 Old 03-18-2014, 05:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjenkins95 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lapino View Post

Does it really make that much of a difference using an expensive player like the oppo compared to a ps3 or cheaper player like a Sony?


The Oppo has more bells and whistles for performing additional functions but as far as playing a normal Blu-ray, the picture quality is the same whether you use a PS3 or a cheaper Blu-ray player.

Not with a digital signal like Blu-ray HDMI. With a 1080p digital signal it is 'all or nothing'. It will either work properly or the image will be highly and obviously compromised - visible picture breakdown. So in this sense, the PQ from the Oppo 105 will be identical to the PQ from a decent $100 player from, say, Sony or Pioneer. Of course if any image or signal manipulation is involved - eg, upscaling of SD content, then it is possible that one player has better tech than another for this process.

 

There are many good reasons for buying the Oppo 105, but better PQ from Blu-ray sources isn't one of them.

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post #2628 of 3470 Old 03-18-2014, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by kanerator View Post

Viche, I usually check blu-ray.com and high-def digest.com for reviews of new release discs.  They always mention the aspect ratio and usually tell if it's been altered. hey also review the quality of the transfer. Also Amazon always lists the aspect ratio of the disc, but not if it's been altered.  Thanks for the IMDB tip.  I never thought to use them for aspect ratio info.  I found this list in the forums of blu-ray.com of altered movies compiled by forum users.  Here's the link: http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=180163 Hope that helps.

Thanks for the link!

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Viche, here's a link to the lumen website; http://www.lumagen.com  Looks pretty darn good, but the prices range from $1500 for the mini processor up to $5000 for the big boy with the middle three going $3300, $3500 and $4000.  Guess we pay for the best picture.  It's a PQ enhancement processor.  The latest model includes DarBee processing.  The device allows you to calibrate in greater depth and theoretically improve an SD source to HD quality.  Should do the opposite of negatively impacting image quality if the reviews are accurate.  Would love to have one but it might be awhile.

That's out of my price range, but what does it have to do with being able to use a CIH screen for 16:9 and 2.35 material?
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post #2629 of 3470 Old 03-18-2014, 09:19 AM
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Hi All,
First thanks for all the help I received from the group.

I ended up getting the OPPO bdp-103d and it's very cool, not only did I get the scaling needed but the picture is noticeably better than my sony bdp-s590

Thanks again,
Al
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post #2630 of 3470 Old 03-18-2014, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Not with a digital signal like Blu-ray HDMI. With a 1080p digital signal it is 'all or nothing'. It will either work properly or the image will be highly and obviously compromised - visible picture breakdown. So in this sense, the PQ from the Oppo 105 will be identical to the PQ from a decent $100 player from, say, Sony or Pioneer. Of course if any image or signal manipulation is involved - eg, upscaling of SD content, then it is possible that one player has better tech than another for this process.

There are many good reasons for buying the Oppo 105, but better PQ from Blu-ray sources isn't one of them.

Which is what I said without the "bells and whistles."wink.gifbiggrin.gif

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post #2631 of 3470 Old 03-18-2014, 10:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by allensbad View Post

Hi All,
First thanks for all the help I received from the group.

I ended up getting the OPPO bdp-103d and it's very cool, not only did I get the scaling needed but the picture is noticeably better than my sony bdp-s590

Thanks again,
Al

 

It is?  You mean a Blu-ray 1080p picture over HDMI? With no sort of processing going on in the Oppo?  In what way is noticeably better?

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post #2632 of 3470 Old 03-18-2014, 10:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Not with a digital signal like Blu-ray HDMI. With a 1080p digital signal it is 'all or nothing'. It will either work properly or the image will be highly and obviously compromised - visible picture breakdown. So in this sense, the PQ from the Oppo 105 will be identical to the PQ from a decent $100 player from, say, Sony or Pioneer. Of course if any image or signal manipulation is involved - eg, upscaling of SD content, then it is possible that one player has better tech than another for this process.

There are many good reasons for buying the Oppo 105, but better PQ from Blu-ray sources isn't one of them.

Which is what I said without the "bells and whistles."wink.gifbiggrin.gif

 

I do apologise!  I must have thought I was replying to someone else. Clearly, you and I are in violent agreement on this issue! :)

 

Yes - this is the post I intended to reply to:

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjenkins95 View Post

The Oppo has more bells and whistles for performing additional functions but as far as playing a normal Blu-ray, the picture quality is the same whether you use a PS3 or a cheaper Blu-ray player.
And all CD players sound the same rolleyes.gif
The OPPO 105 looks and sounds better than all the other disposable players.
 
Somehow the relevant part of the post disappeared and it looked as though I was replying to you. Apologies again.
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post #2633 of 3470 Old 03-18-2014, 10:53 AM
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Thanks for the link!
That's out of my price range, but what does it have to do with being able to use a CIH screen for 16:9 and 2.35 material?

Check out these links on youtube when you get a chance. Brolic and another guy on youtube show what the Lumagen can do in a CIH setup. It works great in my opinion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwF7nYe-YzM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLGDYmbACZg
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post #2634 of 3470 Old 03-18-2014, 12:21 PM
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Wow that looks like a pretty good solution. Just when I thought I was content on going with a 16:9 screen when the time comes. The price is a bit high but maybe for a later purchase this may be just the ticket to deal with the aspect ratio issue!
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post #2635 of 3470 Old 03-18-2014, 12:29 PM
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Picking up my 9200w tomorrow (finally). Hope the wireless will work without issue since that is the main reason I bought this.
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post #2636 of 3470 Old 03-18-2014, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmoneyman2323 View Post

Check out these links on youtube when you get a chance. Brolic and another guy on youtube show what the Lumagen can do in a CIH setup. It works great in my opinion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwF7nYe-YzM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLGDYmbACZg

I still don't get it. With a 2.35:1 blu-ray, I thought the image was encoded onto the disk with black bars on top and bottom. So you are only using the center pixels of the LCD chip on the projector to project the image. If you play a 2.35:1 movie on a 16:9 screen, you see the black bars, which are the top and bottom rows of lcd pixels simply displaying black. With a CIH screen, you would normally zoom the image so that the black portion of the pixels are above and below the wider screen material. Either way, you are always viewing a 1 to 1 representation of pixels on the LCD chip projected onto your screen.

With the Lumagen, there HAS to be some sort of interpolation going on if you don't have to zoom the lens. I would imagine that what is happening is that 2.35:1 content is displayed at a 1 to 1 pixel representation of what is on the projector's lcd chip, but that when you view 16:9 content, the lumagen interpolates(scales) the pixels down so that the same portion of the lcd chip (the center portion) is displaying the entire 16:9 content. That way you don't have to zoom. That would mean a loss of resolution, though. I can't see how else it would work if the lens is not changing.

I'm often wrong though, so I welcome other possibilities. smile.gif
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post #2637 of 3470 Old 03-18-2014, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Viche View Post

I still don't get it. With a 2.35:1 blu-ray, I thought the image was encoded onto the disk with black bars on top and bottom. So you are only using the center pixels of the LCD chip on the projector to project the image. If you play a 2.35:1 movie on a 16:9 screen, you see the black bars, which are the top and bottom rows of lcd pixels simply displaying black. With a CIH screen, you would normally zoom the image so that the black portion of the pixels are above and below the wider screen material. Either way, you are always viewing a 1 to 1 representation of pixels on the LCD chip projected onto your screen.

With the Lumagen, there HAS to be some sort of interpolation going on if you don't have to zoom the lens. I would imagine that what is happening is that 2.35:1 content is displayed at a 1 to 1 pixel representation of what is on the projector's lcd chip, but that when you view 16:9 content, the lumagen interpolates(scales) the pixels down so that the same portion of the lcd chip (the center portion) is displaying the entire 16:9 content. That way you don't have to zoom. That would mean a loss of resolution, though. I can't see how else it would work if the lens is not changing.

I'm often wrong though, so I welcome other possibilities. smile.gif

Correct, you are essentially zooming the projector out so that the black bars are overshooting the top and bottom of the screen for your 2:35 screen. The lumagen eliminates the need to have to manually go back to that projector and re-zoom/focus and shift the image every time you watch a movie/tv show that is encoded in 16:9 or 2.35. Basically with this solution you are never using your entire pixels of the lcd panel unless you have an anamorphic lens. Zooming vs Lens has been debated many times over and the quality of zooming on a 2.35 screen is very comparable in my opinion but having a Lens is the better solution, but not everyone can afford a $3K-7K lens.

Essentially what the Lumagen offers other than CMS and sharpening/enhancing features is the ability to control your CIH picture at the touch of a button. There's a 2.35 button, 16:9 button, etc on the remote and when say the 16:9 button is pressed for instance on a 16:9 television program your picture is centered in the middle of the 2.35 screen and will perfectly fit the height of the screen but you do lose resolution because you are shooting black bars around your picture (all four sides in this case). Essentially doing it this way, you will never use all your available pixels on the projector, though the image is still sharp.

Another benefit to using a Lumagen is in instances when watching a movie that has changing aspect ratios. I know there are only a couple (TDK, TDK Rises, TRON: Legacy, etc) but the lumagen will maintain the aspect ratio you tell it to, so you won't even notice that the movie had a scene where the aspect ratio changed. Using a 2.35 screen watching The Dark Knight Rises without a lumagen makes the movie overshoot the screen multiple times when the IMAX video scenes are presented, lumagen handles it perfectly.

Not trying to get people to buy the device, just trying to help people out but I'm not an expert.
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post #2638 of 3470 Old 03-18-2014, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by dmoneyman2323 View Post

Correct, you are essentially zooming the projector out so that the black bars are overshooting the top and bottom of the screen for your 2:35 screen. The lumagen eliminates the need to have to manually go back to that projector and re-zoom/focus and shift the image every time you watch a movie/tv show that is encoded in 16:9 or 2.35. Basically with this solution you are never using your entire pixels of the lcd panel unless you have an anamorphic lens. Zooming vs Lens has been debated many times over and the quality of zooming on a 2.35 screen is very comparable in my opinion but having a Lens is the better solution, but not everyone can afford a $3K-7K lens.

Essentially what the Lumagen offers other than CMS and sharpening/enhancing features is the ability to control your CIH picture at the touch of a button. There's a 2.35 button, 16:9 button, etc on the remote and when say the 16:9 button is pressed for instance on a 16:9 television program your picture is centered in the middle of the 2.35 screen and will perfectly fit the height of the screen but you do lose resolution because you are shooting black bars around your picture (all four sides in this case). Essentially doing it this way, you will never use all your available pixels on the projector, though the image is still sharp.

Another benefit to using a Lumagen is in instances when watching a movie that has changing aspect ratios. I know there are only a couple (TDK, TDK Rises, TRON: Legacy, etc) but the lumagen will maintain the aspect ratio you tell it to, so you won't even notice that the movie had a scene where the aspect ratio changed. Using a 2.35 screen watching The Dark Knight Rises without a lumagen makes the movie overshoot the screen multiple times when the IMAX video scenes are presented, lumagen handles it perfectly.

Not trying to get people to buy the device, just trying to help people out but I'm not an expert.

I don't get this. How can the picture still be "sharp" if you are only using 1/2 or less of the pixels on the projector's LCD chip (top, bottom, left, and right sides of image have to be blacked out in order to get the 2.35:1 image to transfer to 16:9 without changing image height or zooming) This thing isn't magic. It can't defy physics.
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post #2639 of 3470 Old 03-18-2014, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Viche View Post

I don't get this. How can the picture still be "sharp" if you are only using 1/2 or less of the pixels on the projector's LCD chip (top, bottom, left, and right sides of image have to be blacked out in order to get the 2.35:1 image to transfer to 16:9 without changing image height or zooming) This thing isn't magic. It can't defy physics.

Didn't mean that it was as sharp as a 1080p picture where all the pixels are being used, because it's not, but on my 125" 2.35 sitting 15' away the image is still relatively sharp. But I also use the Non-Linear Stretch function (NLS) a lot as well. This allows you to alter that 16:9 image and stretch it so that it fits the 2.35 screen basically now displaying a 2.35 image. It uses more of the pixels this way and it works wonders on blu-rays, looks great in my opinion. It's not perfect, obviously the best overall solution is to get a Anarmorphic lens and use the lumagen as well unless you have a 6030. But the calibration features alone with the lumagen and Calman 5 software are worth it in my opinion.

Sorry jumped around topics there. I know the picture isn't as sharp as say manually re-zooming the image back down to 16:9 on your 2.35 screen but it's a convenience factor and there are trade offs.
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post #2640 of 3470 Old 03-18-2014, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by dmoneyman2323 View Post

Didn't mean that it was as sharp as a 1080p picture where all the pixels are being used, because it's not, but on my 125" 2.35 sitting 15' away the image is still relatively sharp. But I also use the Non-Linear Stretch function (NLS) a lot as well. This allows you to alter that 16:9 image and stretch it so that it fits the 2.35 screen basically now displaying a 2.35 image. It uses more of the pixels this way and it works wonders on blu-rays, looks great in my opinion. It's not perfect, obviously the best overall solution is to get a Anarmorphic lens and use the lumagen as well unless you have a 6030. But the calibration features alone with the lumagen and Calman 5 software are worth it in my opinion.

Sorry jumped around topics there. I know the picture isn't as sharp as say manually re-zooming the image back down to 16:9 on your 2.35 screen but it's a convenience factor and there are trade offs.

Got it. Thanks for the clarification. I'm thinking I would be willing to do the manual zoom adjustment in order to save $ and image quality.

So is it that the 6030 has the ability to compress the image for use with an anamoriphic lens, or is it that it has lens memory settings like the panasonic 8000?
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