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post #181 of 215 Old 10-01-2013, 07:26 PM
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me too,I'll be back to the Sony booth this afternoon so will be posting more info later today.thanks20.gif
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post #182 of 215 Old 10-01-2013, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Does it get better if you shut your eyes or turn the projector off? smile.gif

Well the black level improves dramatically. smile.gif

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post #183 of 215 Old 10-02-2013, 07:04 AM
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I was going to originally post "other than the reference black level" but I figured I would leave it out giving someone who desperately needed an opportunity to come up with and post something reflecting a modicum of intelligence, knowledge, and quickness with one. I figured Coderguy or Noah Katz, but no it was Mike G. I lost a 10 cent bet. Thanks smile.gif (as to the entire post and to my friends referred therein)

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post #184 of 215 Old 10-02-2013, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

I was going to originally post "other than the reference black level" but I figured I would leave it out giving someone who desperately needed an opportunity to come up with and post something reflecting a modicum of intelligence, knowledge, and quickness with one. I figured Coderguy or Noah Katz, but no it was Mike G. I lost a 10 cent bet. Thanks smile.gif (as to the entire post and to my friends referred therein)

Maybe I should have read this before sending you the PM. smile.gif Play nice now. tongue.gif

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post #185 of 215 Old 10-02-2013, 04:31 PM
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If Only I could get a good price for the new Sony 600ES! I would retire my JVC RS35U

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post #186 of 215 Old 10-02-2013, 04:42 PM
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If Only I could get a good price for the new Sony 600ES! I would retire my JVC RS35U

Compared to what I paid for my Lumis Host, I can get you a killer price on a VW600ES !! smile.gif

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post #187 of 215 Old 10-02-2013, 06:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is a copy of Deja Vu's post in the Epson 5030/6030 thread, as it really should be here as well:
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Here's what PC (Evan Powell) had to say about the new Epson:

"The other over-the-top buzzworthy new product on the CEDIA floor was the Epson Pro Cinema 6030, priced at a comparatively paltry $3500. On Saturday afternoon, the third day of the show when most attendees had gone home and the vast majority of idle booth workers were twiddling their thumbs and praying for the closing bell, there was still a long line of dealers waiting in line to see the 6030. This projector wins the award for the Best Picture for the Money at this show, hands down. It is not 4K, and it is not in the same league as the super-premium 1080p 3-chip DLPs, but the Epson 6030 produces a gorgeous picture for $3500. Black levels are extremely deep, and detail definition in dark shadows is impressive. Color appears refined, accurate and natural. And for classic film fans, the 6030 has a BW Cinema mode that auto sets the color temp to 5400 Kelvin for the authentic display of BW films as they were seen in the theaters back in the day. Very cool. The Epson 6030 at the show was displayed on a 1.3 gain Stewart Studiotek 130, 11-foot wide, 2.4 Cinemascope format. It was also being demo'd with a Panamorph CineVista anamorphic lens.

Epson's release of the Pro Cinema 6030, and its sister version the Home Cinema 5030 at $2500, will be of keen interest to the much larger population of home theater fans who don't want to spend the big bucks on 4K. It used to be that in this modest price range you gave up quite a bit of black level, shadow definition, and dynamic range in exchange for the lower investment. And there is still a difference between these units and the premium priced models, but video technology has advanced to the point where the differences are not nearly as dramatic as they used to be. In many cases you need to see them side by side to tell the difference. On their own the Epson 6030 and 5030 will produce large screen images that will fully satisfy the demands of the videophile who wants the complete dark room cinematic experience in the home."

So apparently there at least some people who were able to tear themselves away from the 4k and uber high end DLP presentations.
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post #188 of 215 Old 10-02-2013, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Sorel View Post

Here is a copy of Deja Vu's post in the Epson 5030/6030 thread, as it really should be here as well:
So apparently there at least some people who were able to tear themselves away from the 4k and uber high end DLP presentations.


I probably would have at least checked out the Epson, but without lens memory it is a non starter in my setup anyway so I did not see any point. Not to mention I am strictly looking for the best 2d movie machine (ideally something with low lag as well if I ever fire up one of my consoles again) since I am firmly in the DLP camp at this point for 3d and I don't see a DI projector with relatively low native contrast beating out a JVC for pure 2d movie watching. What type of native contrast do the Epsons' have?

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post #189 of 215 Old 10-02-2013, 06:51 PM
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Very good point, Bob. It actually is more impressive today what ~$3K can produce in projector quality than 5 or more times that can do.
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post #190 of 215 Old 10-02-2013, 06:53 PM
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BS,

Look at post #66.

This guy is a stud!

Mike Miles

ICR [ Sales Consulting and Small Part-Time AV shop, very small...  ]

Process Integration, Inc. [ contract sales consultant ]

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post #191 of 215 Old 10-02-2013, 07:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Not to mention I am strictly looking for the best 2d movie machine (ideally something with low lag as well if I ever fire up one of my consoles again) since I am firmly in the DLP camp at this point for 3d and I don't see a DI projector with relatively low native contrast beating out a JVC for pure 2d movie watching.
I'll give you a GREAT deal on my RS35...smile.gif
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Very good point, Bob. It actually is more impressive today what ~$3K can produce in projector quality than 5 or more times that can do.
Yeah, Bill...I am sure that they do not produce the ultimate in image quality by any stretch of the imagination, but I am amazed at just how good of an image can be had for so little money. It would most certainly be a let down for you after spending so much time with your VW1000...wink.gif

Evan Powell is not always well respected in this forum, but regardless, he makes a good point. I try not to make blanket judgements about people, but rather evaluate each post individually and extract what information I can, whether I agree with them or not.
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post #192 of 215 Old 10-02-2013, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Sorel View Post

I'll give you a GREAT deal on my RS35...smile.gif

Are you getting something new this year Bob?

JVC 3D: Been there, done that, bought a DLP
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post #193 of 215 Old 10-02-2013, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Sorel View Post

I'll give you a GREAT deal on my RS35...smile.gif
Yeah, Bill...I am sure that they do not produce the ultimate in image quality by any stretch of the imagination, but I am amazed at just how good of an image can be had for so little money. It would most certainly be a let down for you after spending so much time with your VW1000...wink.gif

Evan Powell is not always well respected in this forum, but regardless, he makes a good point. I try not to make blanket judgements about people, but rather evaluate each post individually and extract what information I can, whether I agree with them or not.

Yes, Bob, against my normal behavior I did spring for the VW1000 two yrs ago. i suppose it was becoming emeritus, etc., that the finiteness of life impressed itself on me that I decided waiting forever for the 'ultimate' didn't really make sense. (And it was not a stretch to afford it.) As it's turning out, with Sony's upgrade program for 1000 owners, it looks like I will stay with this pj for 2 or more yrs more, so it's looking like it was even a reasonably good economic choice (by accident!).
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post #194 of 215 Old 10-02-2013, 09:15 PM
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Cut the BS. You basically caved in to my salesmanship, pure and simple. And as you have previously posted multiple times, you are glad you did.

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post #195 of 215 Old 10-02-2013, 09:26 PM - Thread Starter
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As it's turning out, with Sony's upgrade program for 1000 owners, it looks like I will stay with this pj for 2 or more yrs more, so it's looking like it was even a reasonably good economic choice (by accident!).
Yup, it looks as if you made a great choice! I haven't been hanging around this forum for quite some time, so in my mind the VW1000 was only about 1 year old. But for it to be 2 years old already and (with the upgrade program) poised to remain on top for another year or two, or maybe longer, it is a bit of a phenomenon. It's really great to be able to look back and see that you made a good choice, but when it doesn't work out, like in my many escapades, it's not quite the same warm and fuzzy feeling. I am truly happy that it worked out for you, as you are a really great guy and I would have been sad if it had turned out to be an expensive mistake. The problem here is that there is no way to know the good choices from the bad choices until you are at least a couple of years down the road and can look back to see how things progressed - or didn't progress.

- My most recent example, the JVC RS35. Though nowhere near $25k, it was a $10k projector when I bought it about 3 years ago. It has been sitting here gathering dust for almost 2 years because the Epson simply is a better fit for my particular needs and wants. How much do you think it is worth on the used market now? (I'll give you a hint - it is considerably south of $2k), as the $4k *retail* JVC, whatever model it is called, will easily smoke it, especially since JVC finally added a DI. Even if I sold it 2 years ago, the then $4k JVC model was still better than the RS35 because of the introduction of 3D, essentially making the bottom fall out of the used market price on the RS35. My plan was to keep it as a spare in case I ever had to send the Epson in for repair, but even that was a bad plan. As it turns out, my first Epson had a problem. Within 24 hours I had a new 5010 (not a refurb) delivered to my doorstep along with a return tag for my defective unit, so I never even had time to set up the JVC to use while I waited. So while I have never made a single $25k mistake, I have made quite a few $10k to $15k mistakes, and they add up. Now that I have a wife and 2 wonderful stepsons, one in college now and one ready to go to college next year, I can't afford to be quite so reckless as I was when I was single...cool.gif
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post #196 of 215 Old 10-02-2013, 09:31 PM
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Well Bob. You made a great choice too and it was choosing a great women and getting married instead of buying an expensive projector.

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post #197 of 215 Old 10-02-2013, 09:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Are you getting something new this year Bob?
Probably. But as I posted above, I replaced the RS35 a little less than 2 years ago, and the RS35 has just been sitting here gathering dust since then. The RS35 looked great for the first 200 hours or so, but after that it lost so much brightness that I lost interest in it quickly, and I wasn't really keen on buying a new lamp every 200 hours...rolleyes.gif The Epson, with close to 1000 hours on the lamp, looks just as good to me now as the first day that I bought it, though I am sure that it has dimmed also. The only reason I am thinking about replacing it is because I like to buy new toys when I can, my friend is dying to buy it for $1k, and the refinements of the newer model are worth the extra $1600 that it will cost me. Heck, I would even consider buying a JVC again (since they now have a DI), but I fear too much that even though their defective lamp problem has been solved, the lamps might still lose brightness very quickly - that would be just my luck.
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post #198 of 215 Old 10-02-2013, 09:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Well Bob. You made a great choice too and it was choosing a great women and getting married instead of buying an expensive projector.
Yes, I am very happy with my choice, but it sure is costing me a lot more than a top notch projector...yikes! eek.gif
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post #199 of 215 Old 10-02-2013, 09:46 PM
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If you have that bad luck, so what? JVC would give you a new bulb.

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post #200 of 215 Old 10-02-2013, 09:50 PM - Thread Starter
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If you have that bad luck, so what? JVC would give you a new bulb.
Really? They now have guidelines on how much light loss is considered defective? I didn't know that!
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post #201 of 215 Old 10-02-2013, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Cut the BS. You basically caved in to my salesmanship, pure and simple. And as you have previously posted multiple times, you are glad you did.

True, Mark; you caught me at the right time, and yes, I'm glad you did.
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post #202 of 215 Old 10-02-2013, 10:06 PM
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Bob. You call your dealer, hopefully AV Science, and you tell them what happened and they will intercede with JVC and get you a new bulb. I don't think there are any guidelines per se. You seem very hostile tonight. The whole idea is to buy from a good dealer who can and will take care of you.

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post #203 of 215 Old 10-03-2013, 06:37 AM - Thread Starter
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You seem very hostile tonight. The whole idea is to buy from a good dealer who can and will take care of you.
No, I was not hostile in the least last night, just reporting the facts of my experiences. I buy almost all of my gear from AVS, and they most certainly do treat me right - I would not consider buying from anyone else.

I have no idea why I came across that way, as in fact I was in a very good mood. I guess the written word doesn't always sound the same way that it does in person. I hold no one accountable but myself for any and all bad decisions I have made - no one twisted my arm - just the opposite - everyone at AVS has been and continues to be like family to me.

As far as the lamp on the RS35 is concerned, it is a 3 year old projector and I have someone who wants to buy it just the way it is. Just out of curiosity, when JVC solved their so-called "lamp problem", did that include the lamps from the RS35 or just the newer models?
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post #204 of 215 Old 10-03-2013, 08:46 AM
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[
Quote:
QUOTE]Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Sorel

Here is a copy of Deja Vu's post in the Epson 5030/6030 thread, as it really should be here as well:
So apparently there at least some people who were able to tear themselves away from the 4k and uber high end DLP presentations.


I probably would have at least checked out the Epson, but without lens memory it is a non starter in my setup anyway so I did not see any point. Not to mention I am strictly looking for the best 2d movie machine (ideally something with low lag as well if I ever fire up one of my consoles again) since I am firmly in the DLP camp at this point for 3d and I don't see a DI projector with relatively low native contrast beating out a JVC for pure 2d movie watching. What type of native contrast do the Epsons' have?
I saw the Epson. It looked pretty good, although I personally am not a LCD fan. I liked the fact that they were using the CinaVista anamorphic lens with it - I saw several projectors using that lens. I performed very well, especially considering the price.

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post #205 of 215 Old 10-03-2013, 09:46 AM
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I have no idea why I came across that way...

IMO you didn't.

I think Mark has cabin fever or his itching foot is driving crazy or something smile.gif

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post #206 of 215 Old 10-03-2013, 10:40 AM
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Let's ask Mark. Mark. Wake up. OK. I am here.

Mark reacted to the comment that has JVC has come up with a set of rigid criteria for determining bulb performance being acceptable or requiring a free bulb from JVC? As if that was a necessary prerequisite to JVC replacing a bulb for free.I think it is ad hoc. Age of the bulb, hours on it, degree of dimming. With a consideration as to how publically the complainer is complaining and the visibility of that complaint in public forums. Of course, I don't know.

I remember getting a complaint of a bad bulb from a customer made primarily because he heard there was a problem with the JVC bulbs and he was complaining about the replacement bulb he purchased. I said we would replace the bulb but exactly what was wrong with it? I asked him a whole bunch of questions. Brightness, flicker yada yada. He kept saying no, the bulb was fine in those regards. I finally said, so what's wrong with the bulb? He said it wouldn't let him reset the bulb hour meter. I shook my head and said go down to his projector with a phone and follow my instructions for resetting the bulb hour meter, it wasn't a bad bulb but it was operator error. He said he followed the instructions in the manual to a T. I said humor me and try it again as I read the instructions to him. The first step was starting the procedure in standby. The phone went silent. He said I will call you back if there is still a problem. Bulb problem solved. smile.gif All the forum chatter, though he didn't understand it, had him convinced we sold him a bad replacement bulb and he was angry. I also explained that we didn't test bulbs before shipment. No one does.

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post #207 of 215 Old 10-03-2013, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Bob Sorel View Post

No, I was not hostile in the least last night, just reporting the facts of my experiences. I buy almost all of my gear from AVS, and they most certainly do treat me right - I would not consider buying from anyone else.

I have no idea why I came across that way, as in fact I was in a very good mood. I guess the written word doesn't always sound the same way that it does in person. I hold no one accountable but myself for any and all bad decisions I have made - no one twisted my arm - just the opposite - everyone at AVS has been and continues to be like family to me.

As far as the lamp on the RS35 is concerned, it is a 3 year old projector and I have someone who wants to buy it just the way it is. Just out of curiosity, when JVC solved their so-called "lamp problem", did that include the lamps from the RS35 or just the newer models?


The lamp problems that everyone is referring to with JVC is from the RS40/50/60 and RS45/55/65 series of projectors. The RS40/50/60 had a version one of that lamp and several people had lamp troubles. The RS45/55/65 came out with version 2 of that same lamp and while it was much better, still a few people had problems. Later in the year, JVC came out with a version 3 and that one was a pretty good lamp. Few issues with it. For the RS46/56/66 series, JVC came out with an all new lamp design and this has been a fantastic lamp. Long last, very little dimming and a zero reported failure rate for us.

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post #208 of 215 Old 10-03-2013, 11:00 AM
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My point is, even if that lamp has an occasional failure re performance, JVC and your dealer will not leave you hanging. There is nothing to worry about.

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post #209 of 215 Old 10-03-2013, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

The lamp problems that everyone is referring to with JVC is from the RS40/50/60 and RS45/55/65 series of projectors. The RS40/50/60 had a version one of that lamp and several people had lamp troubles. The RS45/55/65 came out with version 2 of that same lamp and while it was much better, still a few people had problems. Later in the year, JVC came out with a version 3 and that one was a pretty good lamp. Few issues with it. For the RS46/56/66 series, JVC came out with an all new lamp design and this has been a fantastic lamp. Long last, very little dimming and a zero reported failure rate for us.
Not to get sidetracked but that new lamp also seems to require less calibrating -- last time I calibrated it didn't drift nearly as much as what I experienced with the previous lamps.

Geof
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post #210 of 215 Old 10-03-2013, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

Not to get sidetracked but that new lamp also seems to require less calibrating -- last time I calibrated it didn't drift nearly as much as what I experienced with the previous lamps.

Yep, that slower dimming I mentioned is why. smile.gif JVC went from having one of the worst lamps (RS40 version 1) to one of the best lamps.

What was this thread about again? CEDIA, that was it. smile.gif
Had fun at the show and since this was an upgrade year for me, video wise (always seems to be upgrade time on audio) I had a blast looking over the candidates.

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