Official Sony VPL-VW500ES / VW600ES 4K Projector Thread - Page 115 - AVS Forum
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post #3421 of 3519 Old 07-23-2014, 11:03 AM
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We are building a new house in Spring 2015 with this dedicated room. I'm glad that I have time to do lots of research. I will take you up on that when I get closer to purchase time! Thanks again for the great information!
By that time or shortly thereafter, the 500/600 will be replaced with a new model. And its smply not a question of picking the gain needed for whatever projector and whatever screen size you desire. Screens have a tremendous impact on the ultimate image quality. There are many factors to consider. Be sure to start working with Mike early in the process.

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post #3422 of 3519 Old 07-23-2014, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post
By that time or shortly thereafter, the 500/600 will be replaced with a new model. And its smply not a question of picking the gain needed for whatever projector and whatever screen size you desire. Screens have a tremendous impact on the ultimate image quality. There are many factors to consider. Be sure to start working with Mike early in the process.

Thanks for the advice. I'm going to try to wait as long as possible to buy the equipment that will likely be changing drastically such as projector, AVR etc. I don't have a good real world grasp on the pros and cons of the different screens yet. I do want an acoustically transparent screen. At a high level, I'm guessing that is a negative for picture quality.
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post #3423 of 3519 Old 07-23-2014, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Romans828 View Post
Thanks for the advice. I'm going to try to wait as long as possible to buy the equipment that will likely be changing drastically such as projector, AVR etc. I don't have a good real world grasp on the pros and cons of the different screens yet. I do want an acoustically transparent screen. At a high level, I'm guessing that is a negative for picture quality.

One thing you can do, is make friends with AVS forum members that would be willing to have you over, so you can see different screens in real theater settings. AT screens can look great. It's all about trade offs.

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post #3424 of 3519 Old 07-23-2014, 01:45 PM
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matrix adjustment

how often do you guys make a matrix adjustment ? Each time I'm using the VP, I have to go through a manual readjust, this instability is rather boring so I'm wondering if I'm the only one in this situation.
thanks
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post #3425 of 3519 Old 07-23-2014, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post
By that time or shortly thereafter, the 500/600 will be replaced with a new model. And its smply not a question of picking the gain needed for whatever projector and whatever screen size you desire. Screens have a tremendous impact on the ultimate image quality. There are many factors to consider. Be sure to start working with Mike early in the process.
Correct. I just don't do long winded posts.

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post #3426 of 3519 Old 07-23-2014, 06:18 PM
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Correct. I just don't do long winded posts.
You can't if you want to catch up to the boys in the 20K posts club. I lost multiple thousands of posts when posting under AV Science sales for two years. Its OK. I deducted my lost posts count as an ordinary business expense deduction

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post #3427 of 3519 Old 07-23-2014, 06:37 PM
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You can't if you want to catch up to the boys in the 20K posts club. I lost multiple thousands of posts when posting under AV Science sales for two years. Its OK. I deducted my lost posts count as an ordinary business expense deduction
Mine was from several years. Over 9,000 posts lost.

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post #3428 of 3519 Old 07-23-2014, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Romans828 View Post
We are building a new house in Spring 2015 with this dedicated room. I'm glad that I have time to do lots of research. I will take you up on that when I get closer to purchase time! Thanks again for the great information!
When the time comes to buy, make sure you give Mike at AV Science (who responded to you) a call and get a quote. You will be happy you did.
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post #3429 of 3519 Old 07-24-2014, 04:33 AM
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Call him before, way before quote time. Do not try and design yourself based on what may be popular by others. Most people think whatever they have is great and they nailed the cost benefit and spending one cent more would be a foolish waste of money. Not all. There is lots of good info on the forum and you will quickly figure out who has knowledge and who rather blindly says do as I did. This happens with screens because it is almost impossible to view multiple screens under the same conditions and the inadequacy of tests with small samples. People tend to chose the brightest piece of paper size sample.

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post #3430 of 3519 Old 07-24-2014, 08:34 AM
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Mine was from several years. Over 9,000 posts lost.

I go for quality, not quantity. Or sometimes - comedy!

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post #3431 of 3519 Old 07-24-2014, 09:41 AM
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post #3432 of 3519 Old 07-24-2014, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Romans828 View Post
Thanks for the advice. I'm going to try to wait as long as possible to buy the equipment that will likely be changing drastically such as projector, AVR etc. I don't have a good real world grasp on the pros and cons of the different screens yet. I do want an acoustically transparent screen. At a high level, I'm guessing that is a negative for picture quality.
I'm using a 120" 16:9 Seymour Center Stage XD AT with my 600ES. No regrets.

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post #3433 of 3519 Old 07-24-2014, 02:32 PM
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Question

The default settings for sharpness and RC are really high, do the purists set both sharpness, RC resolution and smoothness to zero?
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post #3434 of 3519 Old 07-24-2014, 02:46 PM
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No. The sharpness should be set so that it is set one click below visible ringing on a sharpness pattern. You can use any of a variety of patterns that have verticle black lines. If the line starts to thicken or exhibit a halo on one side, go back.

On the 1000/1000ES Most but not all find that putting RC on is is best with resolution set to minimum and any way from min to ablout 3 or 4 on noise filtering.

On the 500/600ES the lens is not as good as on the 1000/1100es and a little more RC can help this. something like 8 on the resolution and maybe around 6 on the noise filtering. I am, sure 500/600ES owners will offer there settings.

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post #3435 of 3519 Old 07-24-2014, 06:19 PM
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Can anyone out there recommend a firm in Houston that can help me set up and calibrate my 600ES? I'd like them to be able to calibrate the audio s well. Not sure who has the equipment and know-how to do this.
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post #3436 of 3519 Old 07-26-2014, 02:34 AM
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Originally Posted by ggpublic View Post
how often do you guys make a matrix adjustment ? Each time I'm using the VP, I have to go through a manual readjust, this instability is rather boring so I'm wondering if I'm the only one in this situation.
thanks
Sorry I think I did not use the proper word (English is not my mother tongue), by matrix I meant panel
So the question was rather: how often do you have to align the SXRD panels? Is daily acceptable on such a high en device? Thanks for your feedback
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post #3437 of 3519 Old 07-26-2014, 06:26 AM
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Sorry I think I did not use the proper word (English is not my mother tongue), by matrix I meant panel
So the question was rather: how often do you have to align the SXRD panels? Is daily acceptable on such a high en device? Thanks for your feedback
Are you looking at the panel grid alignment soon after turning the projector on or waiting 45 minutes to an hour before looking at it. If you are not letting the projector to fully warm up, you will be constantly adjusting.

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post #3438 of 3519 Old 07-26-2014, 07:33 AM
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Are you looking at the panel grid alignment soon after turning the projector on or waiting 45 minutes to an hour before looking at it. If you are not letting the projector to fully warm up, you will be constantly adjusting.
That seems like a ridiculous amount of time to wait for the projector's image to look proper.

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post #3439 of 3519 Old 07-26-2014, 07:49 AM
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I'm using a 120" 16:9 Seymour Center Stage XD AT with my 600ES. No regrets.
Just busting youir chops but rather useless advice without giving the throw multiplier of giving the ambient lighting and room refletivity conditions as well as the seating angles.

Does this mean then that you haven't seen a better screen for your conditions or one the had a higher benefit cost ratio.

How does the audio performance improvement over say a perf screen offset the visual deterioration caused by a woven screen vs a perfed screen.

The problem with screen recommendations is that are usually rather glibly given as gospel. Once again busting your chops with no malice intended.

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post #3440 of 3519 Old 07-26-2014, 08:03 AM
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Just busting youir chops but rather useless advice without giving the throw multiplier of giving the ambient lighting and room refletivity conditions as well as the seating angles.
all black

IMG_3844.jpg



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Does this mean then that you haven't seen a better screen for your conditions or one the had a higher benefit cost ratio.
It's the first FP screen I've purchased in over 20 years so I have nothing to compare it to. Like I said, I'm happy, subjective and non comparative as it is.



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The problem with scren recommendations is that are usually rather glibby given as gospel. Once again busting your chops with no malice intended.
No malice taken.

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post #3441 of 3519 Old 07-26-2014, 08:30 AM
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That seems like a ridiculous amount of time to wait for the projector's image to look proper.
No. You have a tiny chip with over 8 million pixels on it mounted to a metal block and it is not supposed to be temperature sensitive? We are aligning up two chips with 8 million plus pixels each to a third chip with over 8 million pixels. Its amazing the alignments holds after 45 minutes of warm up. Oh yea. its a small projector with self contained cooling. Light mounted close to the block.

It really is quite viewable a few minutes after turn on. It just reaches maximum convergence using scaling tricks and image shifting on two chips after considerable warm up.

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post #3442 of 3519 Old 07-26-2014, 11:21 AM
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No. You have a tiny chip with over 8 million pixels on it mounted to a metal block and it is not supposed to be temperature sensitive? We are aligning up two chips with 8 million plus pixels each to a third chip with over 8 million pixels. Its amazing the alignments holds after 45 minutes of warm up. Oh yea. its a small projector with selfe contained cooling. Light mounted close to the block.

It really is quite viewable a few minutes after turn on. It just reaches maximum convergence using scaling tricks and image shifting on two chips after considerable warm up.

I think my wife is a good gauge for things like this and she thinks it's ridiculous too, especially at the price. You can justify it anyway you want, but I'm not buying it or your excuses. Her comments weren't as nice as mine.

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post #3443 of 3519 Old 07-26-2014, 11:36 AM
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I am just a dumb engineer. Its not my excuses. You can get less warm up and heat variations with a bigger chassis and more cooling. The cheaper the price, here say the 1100 to 600, the more compromises one will face and have to endure. I do not know if its too late for you to return it or in the alternative you could sell it and not take much of a loss if you purchased it for a good price. Many people would love to own one even given its design compromises and many are very happy with the machine.

I am curious, does the wife notice the misconvergence during warm up from here viewing position? Most wouldn't notice it unless they sit very very close to the screen.

My 1100ES at twice the price does not exhibit much convergence drift and I certainly don't notice it for viewing my 54 x 96 inch screen from about 12 ft.'

I sincerely feel your unhappiness but it is indeed a design compromise. i wouldn't be surprised to see it even worse on Sony's next machine which will be cheaper than the 600ES. Cooling engineering is expensive and costs tend to result in an adequate design rather than a superlative one.

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I haven't purchased it, but was a prospective buyer. What you find acceptable may not be to others and, as you have noticed, a lot of people have complained about this issue. I'll just be patient until it's resolved in a future model and if not, I may buy the 1100ES when the time comes.

I'm not challenging you on any technical merit, I'd lose. I just know what would be acceptable in my house and amongst my friends. If I convinced my neighbor to buy one and he had to wait for the convergence, I'd never hear the end of it. That being said, I can see many on here are willing to wait for the phenomenal picture quality it delivers.

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post #3445 of 3519 Old 07-26-2014, 12:23 PM
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I am a VW500 owner and on my unit the convergence take about 20 min to set in. I will say I take a good 5 minutes to do almost 80% of the job. The last 20% take 15 minutes to set in.

I sit 10 feets from a 138 inch 2.35:1 screen and nobody except me (and I have to look very hard for it) can see the convergence change during that 20 minutes.

For me and my family. the convergence change is not a issue at all. Pretty sure this is the kind of thing that have been exaggerate around the web like many other things on the forum...

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post #3446 of 3519 Old 07-26-2014, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
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Can anyone out there recommend a firm in Houston that can help me set up and calibrate my 600ES? I'd like them to be able to calibrate the audio s well. Not sure who has the equipment and know-how to do this.

I used Jeff Meier of accucal. He lives in MO now but is in Houston every couple of months. He lived in Sugar Land for 16 years and is great on the video side. I am very happy with the video calibration. The audio, he will set to reference and depending on what you like or have grown use to, you may like what he does with the audio and you may not. It cleared my vocals and I'm happy with what he did but I had to boost the low end after he left as I am use to running my subs much hotter than flat.

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post #3447 of 3519 Old 07-26-2014, 12:54 PM
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I am a VW500 owner and on my unit the convergence take about 20 min to set in. I will say I take a good 5 minutes to do almost 80% of the job. The last 20% take 15 minutes to set in.

I sit 10 feets from a 138 inch 2.35:1 screen and nobody except me (and I have to look very hard for it) can see the convergence change during that 20 minutes.

For me and my family. the convergence change is not a issue at all. Pretty sure this is the kind of thing that have been exaggerate around the web like many other things on the forum...
That's good to know. 5 to 10 minutes is totally acceptable, but I'd fear 45 minutes. I'm looking at a very similar setup to yours, but seating is a bit further back and screen is the absolute 130, I think.

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post #3448 of 3519 Old 07-26-2014, 01:43 PM
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You have to understand we are talking about changing convergence as the temperature of the optical block stabilizes over time. It is not how long it takes to become perfectly converged. It never will be perfectly converged. It will just stabilize and then using timing changes to the blue and red grids and scaling tricks which have small negative effects on resolution focus and sharpness to give one the appearance that the unit is converged. It isn't physically converged and and never will be. The issue becomes what you can see from your viewing position. The fact that it is changing over time has nothing to do with the image quality. When it eventually stabilizes it may in fact be better not to use subpixel converge adjustments at all. They converge nothing, They simply hide the misconvergence at a cost of resolution and sharpness. Full pixel rather than subpixel is another issue and has benefit without any real costs to the image. I have written many posts on this subject and do not intend to attempt to explain this again but it is gospel and not questionable. Shifting a line a ful grid line or pixel in who number multiples will reduce any misconvergence to one half pixel or less. If you want to adjust a tenth or two using subpixel, the benefits will outweigh the adverse impacts, 3 to 5 tenths the adverse impacts offset the benefits. Remember subpixel adjustments were added by manufacturers to shut up complaints of misconvergence by customers. Subpixel doesn't fix convergence, it hides misconvergence from your eyes at the cost of resolution and sharpness.

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post #3449 of 3519 Old 07-26-2014, 06:32 PM
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Can anyone out there recommend a firm in Houston that can help me set up and calibrate my 600ES? I'd like them to be able to calibrate the audio s well. Not sure who has the equipment and know-how to do this.
Chad B comes to Texas once in a while and he calibrated my JVC RS4810 and audio system. He did an outstanding job and I highly recommend him.

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Mark thanks for your advice, it was brilliant!
I really don't know why Sony and the others have default settings for sharpness and RC turned so high!
On a really large screen (scope 145") I was never that happy with all the artefacts I was seeing....


I finally used the S&M disc and set up the sharpness which I turned down to zero. RC resolution and smoothing was also turned down low. I used a bit of added sharpness from my Lumagen and bingo, my Sony now seems to have a look closer to my X900 used to.


Really Lumagen is the magic ingredient, it does wonders to the image.


Now I say turn all the other stuff on the projector to zero or almost off and use the Lumagen to make the magic!
RapalloAV is offline  
Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

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Sony Vpl Vw500es , Sony Vpl Vw1000es Projector , Sony Fmp X1 4k Ultra Hd Media Player
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