Official Sony VPL-VW500ES / VW600ES 4K Projector Thread - Page 117 - AVS Forum
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post #3481 of 3508 Old 08-06-2014, 03:47 AM
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Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post
If a sharpness test disc from S&M or DVE is no good for setting RC, what is?

What do you use then to set RC Mark?
Hi. Since the advent of RC for projectors with the Sony VPL-vw1000ES (RC has long been used by Sony in non front projector displays), the user community has been struggling with where the two RC sliders should be set for various sources and operating modes. Sony has provided absolutely no guidance on this.

And many play with the controls and ask others what they are using because they have no confidence in their own ability to set the controls based on their perception of picture quality. Between the two sliders there are 10,000 possible combinations. In the days prior to the RC changing in the upgrade from the 1000ES to the 1100ES, the R control made I think little difference to PQ once RC was switched on. Intuitively most set noise filtering to a low setting because filtering removes high frequency detail.

Some of us tried on/off pixel patterns (both horizontal and vertical patterns) to see how changing the R and the filter slider changed the patterns. Awful, a couple of clicks and the pattern changed from whatever they were. Some combinations caused blotching. No matter what one did the patterns had obvious artifacting which change from maybe tolerable to repulsive. What to do? We left the settings to the factory defaults for the various picture modes.

Things changed with the RC revisions that showed up in the 1100 upgrade and in the 500/600. Now changes when watching content (visible artifacting) became apparent with a small changes to the low end of each slider. With the 1100ES, most found that they like the picture more with RC engaged rather than switched off and with the resolution slider set to minimum. Artifacting starts becoming visible when R slider is moved higher. Where to set the noise slider? Intuitively it should be set low to minimize the filtering of high frequency information that isn't noise generated by the R component. There is a tiny amount of artifacting with the R set to minimum and it can be minimize by a small (low) application of the noise control. Most find setting it between minimum and 3 or 4 is nest. It depends of how visible the artifacting caused by R at minimum is to you. I really don't see much of it and just keep the noise filter at minimum but many here believe a tad more is necessary or best for them. With the 500/600 most find 3 or 4 to be best for R (which I believe is due to make up for the lesser lens in the 500/600 vs the 10000/1100. Setiing the R to 4 or so makes the lens appear sharper. Of course by setting the control that high (LOL), the noise filtering must be set higher to minimize the artifacting and that setting seems to be around 10 plus or minus a click or two.

OK. That's my definitive presentation on the history and results of our collective trials and tribulations with Sony RCs. I do not like RC, I much prefer Coke Zero. But the Sony RC I like, set to minimum for R and 3 for noise on my 1100ES.

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post #3482 of 3508 Old 08-06-2014, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post
Where do you set the noise filter part of the RC, I find it interesting that you prefer the resolution set to 3 while 1000/1100ES owners seem to like the resolution set to minimum with the noise component set to about 3 or 4. The preference of 500/600ES owners to set the resolution to 3 reflects perhaps the lesser quality lens and the need to help it a tad.


BTW Its hopeless using sharpness or other patterns to set the RC. Patterns that use lines
are virtually digital sq waves and are an unreal non realistic torture test for scalars and the like.

My RC settings on the 1100 is :

Res. 2
Noise minimum ( "0" )

At that resolution setting, the picture gets clearly sharper and more "detailt" without adding any noise - above that, the noise slowly gets more visible, with very clean materiel, i Can go up to max. 6.

Any noise settings above 0 is just smoothing or softing the picture again

On the 1000, i had the same setting as you

Res. Minimum
Noise. 3


Dj

Last edited by d.j.; 08-07-2014 at 11:05 AM. Reason: correcting off to minimum ( "0" )
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post #3483 of 3508 Old 08-06-2014, 08:35 AM
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www.amazon.com/Sony-VPL-VW600ES-SXRD-4K-Projector/dp/B00JWVWORK/

Hey guys I wanted to order this directly from Amazon but its only sold by a couple of third party sellers, anyone have experience with them and which one would you advice? Counting on great aftersale service.

Thanks!
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post #3484 of 3508 Old 08-06-2014, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by LeahOlin View Post
www.amazon.com/Sony-VPL-VW600ES-SXRD-4K-Projector/dp/B00JWVWORK/

Hey guys I wanted to order this directly from Amazon but its only sold by a couple of third party sellers, anyone have experience with them and which one would you advice? Counting on great aftersale service.

Thanks!
Why not buy it through AVScience. I bought my last projector through them and I had a very good experience.

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post #3485 of 3508 Old 08-06-2014, 09:22 AM
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Why not buy it through AVScience. I bought my last projector through them and I had a very good experience.
I AGREE with pgwalsh - USE AVScience - They are GREAT.
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post #3486 of 3508 Old 08-06-2014, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeahOlin View Post
www.amazon.com/Sony-VPL-VW600ES-SXRD-4K-Projector/dp/B00JWVWORK/

Hey guys I wanted to order this directly from Amazon but its only sold by a couple of third party sellers, anyone have experience with them and which one would you advice? Counting on great aftersale service.

Thanks!
Sent you a PM.

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post #3487 of 3508 Old 08-06-2014, 09:47 AM
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Sent you a PM.
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post #3488 of 3508 Old 08-06-2014, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d.j. View Post
My RC settings on the 1100 is :

Res. 2
Noise off

At that resolution setting, the picture gets clearly sharper and more "detailt" without adding any noise - above that, the noise slowly gets more visible, with very clean materiel, i Can go up to max. 6.

Any noise settings above 0 is just smoothing or softing the picture again

On the 1000, i had the same setting as you

Res. Minimum
Noise. 3


Dj
You can't put R on and shut the noise slider off. RC is off or on. Then the sliders can be set from 0, which is minimum on for each, to 100 for each.

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post #3489 of 3508 Old 08-06-2014, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d.j. View Post
My RC settings on the 1100 is :

Res. 2
Noise off

At that resolution setting, the picture gets clearly sharper and more "detailt" without adding any noise - above that, the noise slowly gets more visible, with very clean materiel, i Can go up to max. 6.

Any noise settings above 0 is just smoothing or softing the picture again





Dj

I find exactly the same thing, adding + to noise setting just softens the image again, that's why I leave it at 0.
R for me is set to 3, funny thing at 3 it shows less artefacts than 0 does...
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post #3490 of 3508 Old 08-06-2014, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by antorsae View Post
Hey, for those who want to do gaming on the VW600: I've tested the 4K @ 60 Hz resolution using Nvidia's latest (non-beta now) drivers with a Kepler card (I got a 780 ti), and there is a SIGNIFICANT improvement on latency.

I have not done any actual measurements yet, but it is immediately noticeable. I am using 4096x2160p @ 60 Hz. For those worried about 4:2:0 subsampling I really don't notice the difference at my seating distance.
I noticed the same thing, the latency definitely seems less than 1080P gaming on the VW1100. I sit 1.25 SW from my 142" 16:9 screen and the UHD resolution looks excellent. I'm glad they kept the change in the latest non-beta, I was afraid to update.

thanks for the info and enjoy being on the cutting edge. It's very cool to see this first hand when I remember Pong from 1975.
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post #3491 of 3508 Old 08-06-2014, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post
I find exactly the same thing, adding + to noise setting just softens the image again, that's why I leave it at 0.
R for me is set to 3, funny thing at 3 it shows less artefacts than 0 does...
The noise the R introduces is an artifact that the noise filter slider eliminates. The trick is to not set it so high as to remove high frequency detail that isn't noise. However, any use of the noise filter will remove some high frequency detail besides noise.

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post #3492 of 3508 Old 08-07-2014, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post
You can't put R on and shut the noise slider off. RC is off or on. Then the sliders cab be set from 0 or 1, I don't remember, which is on for each but minimum.

Corrected the post


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post #3493 of 3508 Old 08-13-2014, 08:33 AM
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I joined the VW600 club last night. Now I just need to figure out how to mount it with the Lumis in a stack ! Watched " Enders Game " last night - great looking picture ! And I didn't tell any of my friends coming over that I switched projectors - interesting feedback afterwards. Sort of a " split decision " regarding it being " better " than my Lumis.

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post #3494 of 3508 Old 08-13-2014, 08:43 AM
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Man, I love your posts. Of course you are kidding, stacking a 2K machine with a 4K machine. LOL. I think what you are saying is you would like a machine that had the strong points of each. You surely do not need the light from a stack.

There are several mounts available for stacking which in your case would be to switch between the two projectors depending on the source. Let me guess. The sim2 is better on dark movies. You do not watch sports. The two chip technologies are quite different and have different strengths and weaknesses, DLP and LCOS. The ANSI is quite a bit different and I suspect for normal movies you like the machine with the higher ANSI better.

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post #3495 of 3508 Old 08-13-2014, 08:50 AM
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Mark, I'm not stacking them to run at the same time - I'll alternate which one I watch. This is like being Hugh Hefner and alternating between the hot blonde and the hot brunette - it's a can't lose situation!


Like I did here in the old days -

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post #3496 of 3508 Old 08-13-2014, 09:00 AM
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Thanks for clarifying. Your analogy to Hugh breaks down because in that case there might be considerable benefits to stacking in the event of a menage a trois.

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post #3497 of 3508 Old 08-13-2014, 09:13 AM
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Are you saying I need to get an LED Titan now too ?

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post #3498 of 3508 Old 08-13-2014, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
I joined the VW600 club last night. Now I just need to figure out how to mount it with the Lumis in a stack ! Watched " Enders Game " last night - great looking picture ! And I didn't tell any of my friends coming over that I switched projectors - interesting feedback afterwards. Sort of a " split decision " regarding it being " better " than my Lumis.
Craig,
How big is your screen.
I am looking to lite up a fairly large screen and the 600 is on my list.


Thanks,
Moto
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post #3499 of 3508 Old 08-13-2014, 01:54 PM
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what size screen do you have? What is its gain. What is your throw?

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post #3500 of 3508 Old 08-13-2014, 02:14 PM
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Mark has valid prerequisite questions. Sony recommends 60"-200". I have a 100" Screen Innovations Black Diamond screen with 1.4 gain 10' away from the projector and it's plenty bright enough. Even 3D wearing "shades" is dazzling.

- Dave
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post #3501 of 3508 Old 08-13-2014, 02:50 PM
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Craig,
How big is your screen.
I am looking to lite up a fairly large screen and the 600 is on my list.


Thanks,
Moto

128" diagonal 2.35:1 Stewart Studiotek 130 G3 ( not using an A lens ) and a 122" diagonal Stewart Cima Neve 1.1 16:9 screen. It was GLORIOUSLY BRIGHT on the StudioTek last night, in low lamp. When I get a chance I'll do a foot lambert measurement. Might not have a chance for a week or so.

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post #3502 of 3508 Old 08-13-2014, 02:56 PM
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Thanks Craig.
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post #3503 of 3508 Old 08-13-2014, 04:56 PM
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Your welcome. If anybody would like to see the VW600 in person in the Northern California area, send me an email.

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post #3504 of 3508 Old 08-14-2014, 02:33 AM
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Anyone near SE Georgia have a VW600 or VW1000/1100 that would be willing to give me a demo?


Thanks in advance,
Moto
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post #3505 of 3508 Old 08-14-2014, 04:47 AM
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I been away for a bit, is there going to be a successor to the VW500/600 or VW1100 @ CEDIA?
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post #3506 of 3508 Old 08-14-2014, 05:41 AM
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There will be no successors to these machines introduced at Cedia. There will be a cheaper lower performance 4K projector introduced at Cedia. Not many details are known outside of Sony at this point. we are pretty sure there will be no motorized focus, zoom, or lens shift though there will be mechanical controls for such functions. lumens will be below the 500/600 levels. Contrast should be about the same. the lens likely will be of lesser quality requiring higher settings on the RC with consequent more artifacting those most won't really notice the increase in artifacting. In this instance ignorance is bliss. These are best guesses based on some information.

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post #3507 of 3508 Old 08-14-2014, 06:05 AM
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Quote:
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Anyone near SE Georgia have a VW600 or VW1000/1100 that would be willing to give me a demo?


Thanks in advance,
Moto
I am in South Central Kentucky and I have both the 600 and 1100 in my room, but room is torn up for a couple more weeks. I am building and installing new LCR's. They are also going in a baffle wall set up. Just about have the baffle wall framed. New drivers are scheduled for delivery tomorrow, but only enough for left and right. The other drivers are going to a designer for measurements for crossover design. Means I will be running with phantom center for a while and temporary active crossover settings.

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post #3508 of 3508 Old 08-14-2014, 06:10 AM
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Mike,
Been following your build.


I was just on I-24 a couple of weeks ago on my to and from Minnesota.
I wish I had given more thought to it before I left. Won't be going back up that way again until next year.


Thanks.
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