Official Sony VPL-VW500ES / VW600ES 4K Projector Thread - Page 132 - AVS Forum
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post #3931 of 3941 Old Yesterday, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post
Color banding using a 100IRE pattern occurs on the VW1000ES as well. Some have it worse than others. Usually it does not show up when watching content. Have not heard much talk about it on the 1000's that were converted to 1100's, but I would assume that it is still there. If you search through the VW1000ES thread you will see reports and pictures from others.
Thanks, Mike. I would not consider this as colour banding. I believe that the 1000ES has some barely noticeable banding across the mid-height of the screen due to certain issues related to the design of the PS (Mark Haflich explained that previously). When watching a black-and-white film, which I do relatively often, the top half of the picture appears neutral grey while the bottom becomes progressively greenish-yellowish, the worst being at the bottom corners. This is also visible on white backgrounds, such as the ice on a skating rink, or on white screens in commercials. It really bothers me.

The weird thing is that the two replacement PJs sent by Sony Canada had both the same identical problem (both were 08-2014 production). Both had been opened and re-taped and the protective plastic film on the front edge of the unit had been clearly removed and reapplied. On the second replacement unit, there is a small plastic cover on the bottom that someone tried to pry out by force (see attached). Is this how replacement projectors are supposed to come from Sony Canada, or are they some sort of B-stock units (i.e. returns re-tested and re-shipped)? Note that the first projector I received had not been opened before and it was in absolute pristine condition (04-2014 production).

In these forums I read about some problems that the older 1000ES had, but nothing about similar colour uniformity like my projector has. And, in most cases, Sony replaced the units in the US through overnight shipping. I did not read about issues with the 1100ES. That's why I am thinking of upgrading now but it's all in the hands of Sony Canada, I suppose.

Finally, I had the VPL-VW50 and VPLV-W60 projectors before and none of them exhibited such colour uniformity issues like the 500ESs do.

Thanks.
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post #3932 of 3941 Old Yesterday, 01:06 PM
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My VW1100 definitely doesn't look like that, white field uniformity @ 100 is very clean.

it's odd it would show up on 2 different models. I've only seen 2 VW600's and neither had that issue. I always run 100% for lumen measurements after calibration and would have noticed.
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post #3933 of 3941 Old Yesterday, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael9009 View Post
Thanks, Mike. I would not consider this as colour banding. I believe that the 1000ES has some barely noticeable banding across the mid-height of the screen due to certain issues related to the design of the PS (Mark Haflich explained that previously). When watching a black-and-white film, which I do relatively often, the top half of the picture appears neutral grey while the bottom becomes progressively greenish-yellowish, the worst being at the bottom corners. This is also visible on white backgrounds, such as the ice on a skating rink, or on white screens in commercials. It really bothers me.

The weird thing is that the two replacement PJs sent by Sony Canada had both the same identical problem (both were 08-2014 production). Both had been opened and re-taped by Sony and the protective plastic film on the front edge of the unit had been clearly removed and reapplied. On the second replacement unit, there is a small plastic cover on the bottom that someone tried to pry out by force (see attached). Is this how replacement projectors are supposed to come from Sony Canada, or are they some sort of B-stock units (i.e. returns re-tested and re-shipped by Sony)? Note that the first projector I received had not been opened before and it was in absolute pristine condition (04-2014 production).

In these forums I read about some problems that the older 1000ES had, but nothing about similar colour uniformity like my projector has. And, in most cases, Sony replaced the units in the US through overnight shipping and not by waiting 2-3 weeks like I have been experiencing, and being now threatened with a refund (which I don't want - I simply would like to have a good projector). I did not read about issues with the 1100ES. That's why I am thinking of upgrading now but it's all in the hands of Sony Canada, I suppose.

Finally, I had the VPL-VW50 and VPLV-W60 projectors before and none of them exhibited such colour uniformity issues like the 500ESs do.

Thanks.
Not saying yours is color banding, just that you can expect to see some color banding with test pattern, but should not show up with regular content. Since you say you can see this in regular content, you should not have to live with this.

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post #3934 of 3941 Old Yesterday, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
it's odd it would show up on 2 different models.
One would think a unit could have color shading errors but to have identical color shading errors on two different units seems unlikely or the OP is very un-lucky.

For the OP, does the error remain constant with different gray levels (100, 90, 75, 50 % white fields)? Have you tried to hang a white sheet in front of your screen in order to rule out any screen aberrations?
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post #3935 of 3941 Old Yesterday, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland View Post
One would think a unit could have color shading errors but to have identical color shading errors on two different units seems unlikely or the OP is very un-lucky.

For the OP, does the error remain constant with different gray levels (100, 90, 75, 50 % white fields)?
that's my thought as well, it should technically look worse at the lower fields.
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post #3936 of 3941 Old Yesterday, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland View Post
One would think a unit could have color shading errors but to have identical color shading errors on two different units seems unlikely or the OP is very un-lucky.

For the OP, does the error remain constant with different gray levels (100, 90, 75, 50 % white fields)? Have you tried to hang a white sheet in front of your screen in order to rule out any screen aberrations?
I unmounted the projector from the ceiling, where it is upside down. When mounted, it has quite a bit of vertical shift as the centre of the lens is approximately 7 inches above the top edge of my 133" diagonal, 16:9 screen. I put it on a table, in an upright position, roughly centred to the screen. Surely enough, the tint moved now to the top of the screen, although it appeared to be somewhat less pronounced.

The yellowish tint is most visible at 100 and 80 IRE and barely noticeable at 20 and 40 IRE, so in my opinion it is most obvious at high (bright) levels of white.

I am wondering if this could be a lens issue. I could try to bring up the projector to the ceiling but keep it in an upright position, rather than upside down, then shift the lens in the other direction than normal and see what happens. Would this make sense as a test?

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post #3937 of 3941 Old Yesterday, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael9009 View Post
I unmounted the projector from the ceiling, where it is upside down. When mounted, it has quite a bit of vertical shift as the centre of the lens is approximately 7 inches above the top edge of my 133" diagonal, 16:9 screen. I put it on a table, in an upright position, roughly centred to the screen. Surely enough, the tint moved now to the top of the screen, although it appeared to be somewhat less pronounced.

The yellowish tint is most visible at 100 and 80 IRE and barely noticeable at 20 and 40 IRE, so in my opinion it is most obvious at high (bright) levels of white.

I am wondering if this could be a lens issue. I could try to bring up the projector to the ceiling but keep it in an upright position, rather than upside down, then shift the lens in the other direction than normal and see what happens. Would this make sense as a test?
Worth a shot. I don't recall seeing this issue on my VW600, but my projector isn't mounted very high, so I'm using minimal lens shift. What screen material are you using ( just curious ) ?

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post #3938 of 3941 Old Yesterday, 04:06 PM
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Worth a shot. I don't recall seeing this issue on my VW600, but my projector isn't mounted very high, so I'm using minimal lens shift. What screen material are you using ( just curious ) ?
Craig, I am using Da-Lite HD Progressive 1.3. The screen is 133" diagonal, in 16:9 format. Throw distance is 15 feet and seating is at 12 feet.
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post #3939 of 3941 Old Yesterday, 05:54 PM
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A bunch of things I would suggest. Shut off the RC and report if this has any affect on the color shading in the corners. It is possible that the lens shift is causing CA which is showing about a changes in the color at the extremities towards the shift. Do you see the bright white area in the middle that shows up in the photos. This appears to be hot spotting which should not occur at your throw of 15 ft with a screen gain multiplier of 1.3 with your screen width. You have the projector too high above the top of the screen. Could you lower it about 3 inches? My 1100 is uniform white plus no hot spotting on my 1.0 gain screen.

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post #3940 of 3941 Old Yesterday, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post
A bunch of things I would suggest. Shut off the RC and report if this has any affect on the color shading in the corners. It is possible that the lens shift is causing CA which is showing about a changes in the color at the extremities towards the shift. Do you see the bright white area in the middle that shows up in the photos. This appears to be hot spotting which should not occur at your throw of 15 ft with a screen gain multiplier of 1.3 with your screen width. You have the projector too high above the top of the screen. Could you lower it about 3 inches? My 1100 is uniform white plus no hot spotting on my 1.0 gain screen.
Mark, thanks a bunch!

1. Turning the RC off has no effect on the yellow corners / bottom.
2. I shifted up the image by half a screen, so that the lens is right in the middle, and the yellow corners stayed the same. They just moved up with the picture. (Ignore the purple / green artifacts in the photos - they are due to the iPhone and are not visible on the screen.)
3. The hot spot is because I had to take the photo with my iPhone from 6-7 feet away from the screen to fill up the frame. It also appears worse due to the darker bottom corners. The hot spot is much less visible from the 12 feet viewing position (and there are a few sparkles at that location - this does not bother me).
4. I have the PSS-H10 support attached to the reinforced concrete slab and could not lower it further (see photo).
5. My previous projector, a VPL-VW60 - Black Pearl - did not exhibit darker corners at the bottom (on the same screen and from the same mounting position). The colour uniformity was excellent.
6. Please also see my earlier response to Craig. I unmounted the projector, placed it on a table in an upright position, centred to the screen, and the darker corners were still there, but now at the top, as the projector was rotated.

I am strongly considering to upgrade to the 1100ES, if Sony Canada would allow this. Hopefully, the double price would also mean a much better PJ, with less colour uniformity issues.

Any other ideas? Much appreciated.
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post #3941 of 3941 Old Today, 05:49 PM
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So I went to another local dealer today, who had an 1100ES on display. It was set at about 12 ft throw from a 100 or 110 inch motorized grey Screen Innovation screen. I was told it was likely from the Slate series. Seating was also at 12 ft. My findings:

1. The screen was horrible, with huge hotspotting and sparkling and, hence having very darkened corners. A white 100 IRE image showed horizontal banding which was disappearing based on the vertical location of my eyes, so likely due to the screen, again.

2. The projector had a very nice picture, and I could actually distinguish the pixels from close up, which I could barely do for my 500ES. The convergence adjust pattern had thin and well-defined lines, unlike the thick and blurry lines on the 500ES.

3. There was minimal convergence drift after start-up and only red had to be adjusted to -5 vertically for perfect convergence. My 500ES takes 40+ minutes to stabilize and I have to set the blue vertically by -28.

4. Best of all, though, there was no visible colour uniformity. Due to the weird screen, I had to move my head all over the place, including putting it at the floor level (to have the screen corners brighten up), and I was not able to see any shift in colour whatsoever (on an 100 IRE image).

5. The projector is monstrously huge! It appears that the unit was an updated 1000ES. On the case, the label indicated VPL-VW1000ES, a manufacturing date of 03-2012 and s/n 1000180. However, the Info Menu listed a VPL-1100ES with a s/n 1000180.

So, the 500ES units have problems with colour uniformity and convergence shift that the 1000/1100ES doesn't. What is the best advice you can give me? Should I try to convince Sony Canada to let me upgrade to the 1100ES?
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