Official Sony VPL-VW500ES / VW600ES 4K Projector Thread - Page 139 - AVS Forum
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post #4141 of 4168 Old 12-15-2014, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post
ST130 is a better choice. The FireHawk has the same throw ratio requirement as the BD screen. The ST130 will be bright enough, that is will be able to handle a little ambient light for sports.
Thanks Seegs and Mike for the info. I may look at the Stewart screen after all. Just have to figure out what to do about masking. One of the other selling points of the BD was supposedly, masking was not necessary on this screen. Also have to figure out who sells this screen.

Last edited by mptech1; 12-15-2014 at 10:04 PM.
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post #4142 of 4168 Old 12-15-2014, 10:20 PM
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Mike does.

His phone number is in his signature.

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post #4143 of 4168 Old 12-15-2014, 10:49 PM
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I have been staying out of this because Seegs is doing such a great job BUT I don't agree with most of your comments about ambient light rejection. Stewart 100 and 130 do not do ambient light rejection. The BD will do that. Temperamental is a strange word to use regarding screen properties. If you substituted reflected light from the screen to the surrounding room services I would agree that the Stewart 130 does a much better job than ANY unity gain screen with a wide half angle such as the Stewart 100. You need a black pit for the 100. I have one and I have a 100 screen and it made my sony 1100ES sing where the Stewart 130 only made it nicely hum. A big increase in realism making the screen material disappear. But my screen is small, 54 x 96 and it is bright enough with the 1100ES. 3D is dim however.




Whether you use h or w as a multiplier for different aspect screen is just a question of semantics, If you want to use H, you can still use the w multiplying ratios but multiplying them by the aspect ratio of the screen. Multiplying the width of a 1.787 screen by a range from 1.0 to 2.0 gives a huge difference in the seating position. Throw ratios are based on screen width of the effective 1.78 screen size. If you are zooming for your wide aspect screen, the screen width of your say 2.40 screen is the effective 1.78 size and use must use that width by the minimum recommended 1,78 throw to prevent hot spotting and a greater multiplier would be better.

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post #4144 of 4168 Old 12-15-2014, 11:32 PM
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You're right. Temperamental is a poor choice of words. Though I don't believe either of us referred to the ST100 or ST130 as an "ambient light rejecting screen". We just said the ST130 would do better in a room with ambient light over the ST100. The ST100 only has a very fine optical coating to simply get the gain up a tad to reach it's claimed spec. It can't deal with ambient light because that's not what kind of room this screen material is designed for. Ditto for the ST130 but it will do better than the ST100.

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post #4145 of 4168 Old Yesterday, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post
I have been staying out of this because Seegs is doing such a great job BUT I don't agree with most of your comments about ambient light rejection. Stewart 100 and 130 do not do ambient light rejection. The BD will do that. Temperamental is a strange word to use regarding screen properties. If you substituted reflected light from the screen to the surrounding room services I would agree that the Stewart 130 does a much better job than ANY unity gain screen with a wide half angle such as the Stewart 100. You need a black pit for the 100. I have one and I have a 100 screen and it made my sony 1100ES sing where the Stewart 130 only made it nicely hum. A big increase in realism making the screen material disappear. But my screen is small, 54 x 96 and it is bright enough with the 1100ES. 3D is dim however.




Whether you use h or w as a multiplier for different aspect screen is just a question of semantics, If you want to use H, you can still use the w multiplying ratios but multiplying them by the aspect ratio of the screen. Multiplying the width of a 1.787 screen by a range from 1.0 to 2.0 gives a huge difference in the seating position. Throw ratios are based on screen width of the effective 1.78 screen size. If you are zooming for your wide aspect screen, the screen width of your say 2.40 screen is the effective 1.78 size and use must use that width by the minimum recommended 1,78 throw to prevent hot spotting and a greater multiplier would be better.

mptech1 said he had a light controlled room, but on occasion he wanted to watch sports with some lights on. I would not be willing to trade the lights off viewing for the occasional lights on viewing. ST130 seems to me to be a better choice.

I use width on 16:9, because that method has been around for a long time and most customers seem to be familiar with it. Every theater has to be looked at case by case, since no two are ever the same. You often times have to work with what is available. Most are not starting with a clean slate.

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post #4146 of 4168 Old Yesterday, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
Check my edited post. The ST130 is a good option. Or even the new Firehawk G4 looks promising. Compared to what they charge for a BD screen I don't think there's a huge difference in pricing. Cine4home seemed to like it quite a bit:

http://www.cine4home.de/tests/sonsti...awk_Custom.htm

I love my Studiotek 130 G3 / VW600 combo. For watching sports with a little lighting on, just make sure that no lighting shines directly on the screen ( use recessed can lights on dimmers ), and use one of the brighter settings like Bright TV. And it's sports - it doesn't need to look " reference quality " picture wise. For that you need to turn the lights off - no matter what the screen is. There is no magic screen.

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post #4147 of 4168 Old Yesterday, 11:10 AM
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At long last I have joined the VW600 club. I am happy to say the unit looks very good out of the box. Reg is almost perfect after a few minutes warmup, focus seems to be uniform for entire screen and no shading errors. Started with User settings and made just a few changes including low lamp. It looks so good that I just want to watch for now, maybe some tweaks later on. The better half said, “I know what we are watching is not 3D but the image is so good it almost looks as if it were 3D”.

A big tip of the hat to Mike Garrett at AV Sales. Several weeks ago we made an appointment with Mike to view his personal VW600 in his home in KY. Thanks to Mike and wife it was a memorable experience.

We purchased several items (projector, screen, mask, remote, mounts, etc.) from Mike as a bundle deal so it will not do any good to send me a PM asking how much we paid for the projector because I worked with Mike on a bundle deal, not individual items.
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post #4148 of 4168 Old Yesterday, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post
That's nice but you lose the immersive effect to some extent. Some here want to sit less than one screen width away. Some have better eyes than others. Recurring through almost all projectors threads is how do I set up the machine I bought or am going to buy. Then when its set up time, sifting through such things as what size screen should I buy, what screen gain, how much lens shift is OK to use, and what throw should I use and how far away should I sit, and throwing things out that you just don't like or want to accept or is impractical or impossible for you, how do I set the controls for a variety of things including optional ones such as black enhancement, smooth graduations, motion flow yada yada. Then there is the insecurity, you know that you don't know, you can't tell this from that when you make one of those smooth choices or you see only a tiny difference and you have a panic attack because you don't know which one is better, you get contradictory advice, so you hire a set up/calibrator guy because surely he knows.


Its all BS. There are too many variables and optimization of them is almost purely subjective. But not all.


Brightness, Contrast, Electronic Sharpness, Color Gamut can all be set using test patterns and some even by using instruments and not your subjective eyes. But then again, what test pattern for brightness, different pluge patterns give different results. How crazy you want to get to color accuracy is up to you but anything more than the primary and secondaries and white point is just playing. Gray scale but how many points and set the low end based on lousy meter accuracy.


Re focus. Come on Mark, why can't that be a non variable. Set it up to make the grid as sharp as possible to your eyes with your nose almost hitting the screen. That's the way most here do it. Why? Because it has to be right. Right? No. Its dead wrong if you are sitting close enough to see individual pixels. If you want to sit at X or have to sit at X and you can see individual pixels, you have to defocus. That's an absolute but hey its a free country at least as far as you setting your projector up.


Gamma? Please don't start. Nothing is right. Its a user preference. I DON'T LIKE HAVING TO DECIDE. Please tell me what to do. What should I prefer? Vanilla, strawberry? No you idiot. You are not paying attention. Choose Rocky Road. But please do not set the ends or choose a curve where you get black crush or white clipping. But you can't stand that. You don't want a variable where you have to choose by pulling something out of your posterior. Hey there is this BT gamma curve, I'll use that. Whew.


I read over and over how to choose between close throw with the projector be its brightest g throw where contrast is maximized. I read over and over well I just chose a throw mid point as a compromise. Cause I really am too insecure to pick one over the other and I got me at least 14 ft lamberts. Well kiddies, it ain't linear, its a log function at both ends and if one could sum contrast and brightness as some absolute net maximization, the mid point would give you the lowest net result. A little above the minimum contrast and brightest you can get. You gotta choose between long and short to maximize the result.


The more controls, the worse things get. Smooth gradients, theater black. Where is the right point for setting everything. What do you do? You know, I don't, so I will do what the expert does or what the majority of experts do. Or I'll hire an expert because he will know.


It all depends on ones priorities and their eyes. It all depends on their sensitivities to artifacts. If you don't see an artifact, why do what someone else did who saw them? Motion smoothing. How does it look to your eyes. HELP ME, PLEASE. It looks the same switched off, slow, or full. I can tell when something affects how bright the picture is. I WANT LIGHT. Auto iris to full captain.
Great post! Can you tell me your settings so I can try on my projector?


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post #4149 of 4168 Old Yesterday, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland View Post
At long last I have joined the VW600 club. I am happy to say the unit looks very good out of the box. Reg is almost perfect after a few minutes warmup, focus seems to be uniform for entire screen and no shading errors. Started with User settings and made just a few changes including low lamp. It looks so good that I just want to watch for now, maybe some tweaks later on. The better half said, “I know what we are watching is not 3D but the image is so good it almost looks as if it were 3D”.

A big tip of the hat to Mike Garrett at AV Sales. Several weeks ago we made an appointment with Mike to view his personal VW600 in his home in KY. Thanks to Mike and wife it was a memorable experience.

We purchased several items (projector, screen, mask, remote, mounts, etc.) from Mike as a bundle deal so it will not do any good to send me a PM asking how much we paid for the projector because I worked with Mike on a bundle deal, not individual items.
You are welcome. Went looking for pictures of your room, but only saw a few from construction?

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post #4150 of 4168 Old Yesterday, 11:54 AM
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Great post! Can you tell me your settings so I can try on my projector?



Of course I can! Do you have a follow up question?
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...

You need a black pit for the 100. I have one and I have a 100 screen and it made my sony 1100ES sing where the Stewart 130 only made it nicely hum. A big increase in realism making the screen material disappear. But my screen is small, 54 x 96 and it is bright enough with the 1100ES.
...
So do you need sun glasses to watch movies? What FL are you getting?
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post #4152 of 4168 Old Yesterday, 02:40 PM
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So do you need sun glasses to watch movies? What FL are you getting?

I'm sure Mark has it toned down a bit. But bright is good !

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So do you need sun glasses to watch movies? What FL are you getting?
Note that his screen is 110" diagonal 16:9 with ST100, not 100".

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post #4154 of 4168 Old Yesterday, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland View Post
At long last I have joined the VW600 club. I am happy to say the unit looks very good out of the box. Reg is almost perfect after a few minutes warmup, focus seems to be uniform for entire screen and no shading errors. Started with User settings and made just a few changes including low lamp. It looks so good that I just want to watch for now, maybe some tweaks later on. The better half said, “I know what we are watching is not 3D but the image is so good it almost looks as if it were 3D”.

A big tip of the hat to Mike Garrett at AV Sales. Several weeks ago we made an appointment with Mike to view his personal VW600 in his home in KY. Thanks to Mike and wife it was a memorable experience.

We purchased several items (projector, screen, mask, remote, mounts, etc.) from Mike as a bundle deal so it will not do any good to send me a PM asking how much we paid for the projector because I worked with Mike on a bundle deal, not individual items.

May we know which screen and size, and masking you got?
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post #4155 of 4168 Old Yesterday, 09:53 PM
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Note that his screen is 110" diagonal 16:9 with ST100, not 100".

Thanks for clarifying that I have ST100. as to how I run my machine, I have contrast set to 90, run my bulb on low, and use limited auto iris, not full. my throw is around 16 ft, I haven't measured fl in a while. my bulb has well under 1000 hours, For sports, sometimes I run the at auto iris full to get a little more light. My eye lid droop a bit (optical myasthenia) and if they are dropping more on some days I find the extra brightness less fatiguing. If I remember correctly, I am getting over 20 fl at auto limited. I am using my projector very very infrequently now for reasons that have to do with having to stay near my new puppy and earlier this year in needing to constantly attend to my old dog who passed about 4 months ago. Also I like to smoke cigars which I am not supposed to do in my fabric and insulation laden HT while we are attempting to sell our house. I watch now mostly on a 65 inch plasma in our hard walled family room.e

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post #4156 of 4168 Old Today, 08:06 AM
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Went looking for pictures of your room, but only saw a few from construction?

Only have a few on Facebook here. These are old and several items have been exchanged. Will post some new pics after the holidays.
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May we know which screen and size, and masking you got?
Da-Lite Da-Snap - Cinemascope Format, 52" x 122", HD Progressive 1.1 Perf Material, Part Number 20415V
Da-Lite Pro Imager - Horizontal Screen Masking System, Part Number 97451V
Da-Lite Infrared Low Voltage Remote Control System, Part Number 82434
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post #4158 of 4168 Old Today, 08:29 AM
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For folks with scope screens and using the zoom method with 2.35 content, do you know if the VW600 has discrete codes for the 5 memory locations under the Position menu? If so, do you have said codes.

Could not find any on Remote Central nor are they provided by URC.
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post #4159 of 4168 Old Today, 09:17 AM
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For folks with scope screens and using the zoom method with 2.35 content, do you know if the VW600 has discrete codes for the 5 memory locations under the Position menu? If so, do you have said codes.

Could not find any on Remote Central nor are they provided by URC.
I did not think they were available for lens memory, but they are. File will not load. I will shoot them to you in an email.

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I think you will have to use a macro.
Hopefully there are IP codes for power on/off, input select, display mode (2D/3D etc) and zoom position on the Sony projectors?
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Horizontal Screen Masking System, Part Number 97451V
Is that masking acoustically transparent?
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post #4162 of 4168 Old Today, 12:07 PM
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Return of High Power is not looking very promising.
Disappointing. Is this based on information from Dalite? If true, this is unfortunate. Among this forum's members, there are probably hundreds of devoted fans of this screen - especially the 2.8 version. Although not for everyone or every install, it can do many things that no other screen can do. The 2.8 version was available for almost 15 years, dirt cheap, with hardly any quality issues. It must be very inexpensive to manufacture.

I have no idea who owns the patent (if there is one) for that material, but if Dalite is dropping it, it's a great opportunity for one of the newer upstart screen companies to corner the presentation market, and develop a significant and loyal presence in the HT market.

I hope someone decides to do it.

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Disappointing. Is this based on information from Dalite? If true, this is unfortunate. Among this forum's members, there are probably hundreds of devoted fans of this screen - especially the 2.8 version. Although not for everyone or every install, it can do many things that no other screen can do. The 2.8 version was available for almost 15 years, dirt cheap, with hardly any quality issues. It must be very inexpensive to manufacture.

I have no idea who owns the patent (if there is one) for that material, but if Dalite is dropping it, it's a great opportunity for one of the newer upstart screen companies to corner the presentation market, and develop a significant and loyal presence in the HT market.

I hope someone decides to do it.

Pip
I don't think it is a matter of Da-Lite dropping it. The material started having a lot of quality control problems. Da-Lite kept trying to get these sorted out. Da-Lite thought it would only take a month, that time period kept getting longer and longer. I still own a 2.8 in my family room.

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post #4164 of 4168 Old Today, 12:22 PM
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Disappointing. Is this based on information from Dalite? If true, this is unfortunate. Among this forum's members, there are probably hundreds of devoted fans of this screen - especially the 2.8 version. Although not for everyone or every install, it can do many things that no other screen can do. The 2.8 version was available for almost 15 years, dirt cheap, with hardly any quality issues. It must be very inexpensive to manufacture.

I have no idea who owns the patent (if there is one) for that material, but if Dalite is dropping it, it's a great opportunity for one of the newer upstart screen companies to corner the presentation market, and develop a significant and loyal presence in the HT market.

I hope someone decides to do it.

Pip
See the screen section for updated High Power information. And yes, I ask Da Lite every 3 months. It may be a manufacturing issue - who knows .

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post #4165 of 4168 Old Today, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post
I did not think they were available for lens memory, but they are. File will not load. I will shoot them to you in an email.
Got them, thanks. Too much going for now so it will be several days before I can check this out.
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post #4166 of 4168 Old Today, 03:01 PM
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Is that masking acoustically transparent?
Never looked into the properties of the actual masking material, it appears to be a heavy weight velor so, IMO, it would absorb most of your high end.
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post #4167 of 4168 Old Today, 03:36 PM
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I did not think they were available for lens memory, but they are. File will not load. I will shoot them to you in an email.
Mike,
Can you send them to me also.

Thanks

Sent from my GT-N7105T using Tapatalk
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post #4168 of 4168 Old Today, 10:10 PM
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Mike,
Can you send them to me also.

Thanks

Sent from my GT-N7105T using Tapatalk
Shoot me an email request and I will reply back with an attachment.

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