Official Sony VPL-VW500ES / VW600ES 4K Projector Thread - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 4177 Old 11-26-2013, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

I doubt anyone really expected otherwise. We all know that JVC is ahead of Sony in that area. And really, in any review of a projector of that caliber, the JVC's are going to be the black level/contrast benchmark and
it's seems something of a duty for a reviewer to rate the projector's black levels against the benchmark set by JVC. So it's always going to fall short, even if the black levels are very, very good, and in reviews that are otherwise filled with high praise, the "falling short of JVC black levels" comments are going to stick out.

But as others have said, as important as they are, having the best available black levels aren't everything in a projected image. I sometimes choose to sacrifice the best possible black levels in my set up (via JVC's iris settings) for a "punchier" looking, brighter image.

I had a JVCRS46 but switched to the SonyHW50ES for the brightness. I didn't notice the loss of black levels but certainly did notice the gains at the other end. If I never watched 3D I likely would never have switched.
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post #452 of 4177 Old 11-26-2013, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

I doubt anyone really expected otherwise. We all know that JVC is ahead of Sony in that area. And really, in any review of a projector of that caliber, the JVC's are going to be the black level/contrast benchmark and
it's seems something of a duty for a reviewer to rate the projector's black levels against the benchmark set by JVC. So it's always going to fall short, even if the black levels are very, very good, and in reviews that are otherwise filled with high praise, the "falling short of JVC black levels" comments are going to stick out.

But as others have said, as important as they are, having the best available black levels aren't everything in a projected image. I sometimes choose to sacrifice the best possible black levels in my set up (via JVC's iris settings) for a "punchier" looking, brighter image.

I'm not looking for it to be the best, only better than what I'm currently using--an older JVC. I can't see spending a sum like this and feeling like I'm moving backward (in dark scene performance). Perhaps I'll wuss out and go with a new JVC instead.

B.
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post #453 of 4177 Old 11-27-2013, 02:11 AM
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Ahhhh, there we go, knew I saw that link and article somewhere . BTW Roland, I have the Sony 3D recommended glasses on the way, should have for the weekend. I'll let you know how they work out.

Batteries can be a pain, but, so is the recharging process too. The battery is supposed to last 100hrs, we'll see. The glasses have good reviews, are especially light and have an adjustable eyepiece to accommodate fitment over
regular eyewear. The only negative I have heard is that if you are in a bright room then the side and rear lighting can wash out the image in the glasses since there is no side masking on the earpiece. I don't expect a problem with
that as I have a dark theater , never watch 3D with ambient light on in the room.

I'm a bit of green fellow, shouldn't we be all..., don't like using batteries.
Of course I also don't want bad glasses either. Have to look fo xpand reviews then.

It would never occur to me watch a movie when the room isn't dark.
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post #454 of 4177 Old 11-27-2013, 02:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian B View Post

I'm not looking for it to be the best, only better than what I'm currently using--an older JVC. I can't see spending a sum like this and feeling like I'm moving backward (in dark scene performance). Perhaps I'll wuss out and go with a new JVC instead.

B.

Well, from what I've hearing, the only thing the Sony loses is black level, it wins (hand down?) on everything else, right?
It would never occur to me to prioritize black only", as I said before. A least 95% of scenes of all movies aren't black...
Not even sci-fi flicks.

You're sure you have your priorities right? smile.gif
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post #455 of 4177 Old 11-27-2013, 06:02 AM
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I'm a bit of green fellow, shouldn't we be all..., don't like using batteries.
Of course I also don't want bad glasses either. Have to look fo xpand reviews then.

It would never occur to me watch a movie when the room isn't dark.

Hmmmm, is a 15K projector green I wonder?? Green is a marketing tool, that makes a lot of people feel justified with their purchases , I see more waste with so called green than anything else.

I grow my own vegatables, recycle, compost and do not use pesticides or other chemicals. I walk and or bike rather than drive when I can but. I was green before anyone knew what green meant
but am I doing enough??????? Nope, I don't think so but at least I do my little bit. Sustainable green is when you see 1 square kilometer of green space between you and a neighbor and I don't quite
see that much to be honest.

So, yea I do think we should all be a little green but personally, I think most people are a little colour blind.
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post #456 of 4177 Old 11-27-2013, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post

Hmmmm, is a 15K projector green I wonder?? Green is a marketing tool, that makes a lot of people feel justified with their purchases , I see more waste with so called green than anything else.

I grow my own vegatables, recycle, compost and do not use pesticides or other chemicals. I walk and or bike rather than drive when I can but. I was green before anyone knew what green meant
but am I doing enough??????? Nope, I don't think so but at least I do my little bit. Sustainable green is when you see 1 square kilometer of green space between you and a neighbor and I don't quite
see that much to be honest.

So, yea I do think we should all be a little green but personally, I think most people are a little colour blind.

+1... you're doing 99% more than most already...

Here's an idea that governments are refusing to implement...

1) Pass laws to insist all new houses have garden roofs. The garden part traps water which then evaporates back into the atmosphere.. meaning, green all around instead of concrete jungles... this would ensure the house is really cool and very little air-conditioning needed.
2. Solar farms / solar roofs (solar is cheaper than coal today)
3. Electric vehicles only (ban all combustion engines by a certain year)...

But alas, too many interests like oil companies, etc...

BTW: Before someone tells me it's 'too expensive for solar', imagine this.. the cost of the war in iraq alone is enough to pay for solar roofs for every single house in the USA and there'll still be lots left over to give every family a free electric car...
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post #457 of 4177 Old 11-27-2013, 08:02 AM
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+1... you're doing 99% more than most already...

Here's an idea that governments are refusing to implement...

1) Pass laws to insist all new houses have garden roofs. The garden part traps water which then evaporates back into the atmosphere.. meaning, green all around instead of concrete jungles... this would ensure the house is really cool and very little air-conditioning needed.
2. Solar farms / solar roofs (solar is cheaper than coal today)
3. Electric vehicles only (ban all combustion engines by a certain year)...

But alas, too many interests like oil companies, etc...

BTW: Before someone tells me it's 'too expensive for solar', imagine this.. the cost of the war in iraq alone is enough to pay for solar roofs for every single house in the USA and there'll still be lots left over to give every family a free electric car...

I have 29 acres of land that I leave natural except for my garden enough to grow my vegetables for the year ,so I don't need the sod roof . What needs to happen in this world more than anything is reduction of our biological footprint and that will never happen, the real money
and control have us moving exactly in the direction they need. So, until the big astorid hits we are all on the train that left the station long, long ago. Funny enough that train is painted green, the smoke coming out however is not .

Oh, and BTW I do buy NiMH rechargeable batteries when I can for the most part because.....they are by far the safest for the environment and more cost effective.

That's it for the green unless someone has alignment issues smile.gif Sorry for the off topic , I just had to have my little Green Peace biggrin.gif
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post #458 of 4177 Old 11-27-2013, 08:52 AM
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Its amazing how you guys are using the internet and still claiming you are green. I am joking but the world would be a tiny little bit greener if you guys saved using all that electricity and not read and post on this forum,. Instead keep those posting machines shut off. smile.gif And this green term is really just babble. If a business doesn't do something, it claims its green. I don't get the term. Use your dirty towels for a week, we are green unless you want clean towels, we are still green but you are not. Ditto for serving water at a restaurant, we are green and don't do it unless you ask, we are then green, you are not. How about a big glass bottle (often green) of bottled water imported thousands of miles.

I find its all BS. I graduated from Engineering school in 1967 and was one of the first to graduate with a Bachelor of Science in Environmental Engineering (actually half science and engineering). Then I went to law school and in my applications to attend law school stated that I wanted to be Environmental Lawyer and they had no idea what I was talking about. By the time I graduated, they were teaching courses in environmental law. Its too much me here, but I was involved with establishing the first earth day. I will stop there but there is lot more. Tell me about conservation, this green is nothing new. Just a cool term for the social media age. And I wouldn't be caught dead being green, calling myself green, or doing many of things that greenies think are the socially responsible thing to do.

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post #459 of 4177 Old 11-27-2013, 08:59 AM
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post #460 of 4177 Old 11-27-2013, 09:59 AM
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Its amazing how you guys are using the internet and still claiming you are green. I am joking but the world would be a tiny little bit greener if you guys saved using all that electricity and not read and post on this forum,. Instead keep those posting machines shut off. smile.gif And this green term is really just babble. If a business doesn't do something, it claims its green. I don't get the term. Use your dirty towels for a week, we are green unless you want clean towels, we are still green but you are not. Ditto for serving water at a restaurant, we are green and don't do it unless you ask, we are then green, you are not. How about a big glass bottle (often green) of bottled water imported thousands of miles.

I find its all BS. I graduated from Engineering school in 1967 and was one of the first to graduate with a Bachelor of Science in Environmental Engineering (actually half science and engineering). Then I went to law school and in my applications to attend law school stated that I wanted to be Environmental Lawyer and they had no idea what I was talking about. By the time I graduated, they were teaching courses in environmental law. Its too much me here, but I was involved with establishing the first earth day. I will stop there but there is lot more. Tell me about conservation, this green is nothing new. Just a cool term for the social media age. And I wouldn't be caught dead being green, calling myself green, or doing many of things that greenies think are the socially responsible thing to do.

I don't "claim" to be or advocate that one should be a greenie, what I do personally I do for my health and personal environment. Like you Mark, I see a lot of Hypocrisy in the entire green movement that is primarily used as a marketing tool. I do feel we have a personally responsibility
to take care of the place for future generations but I am certainly not on any soap box either. I for one do not feel bad consuming a few watts using a PC while on the net , I have to for my job anyway. Sending messages electronically today is a lot better than energy consumed via the other methods anyway, I use to need
a small power plant to run the old Telex machine tongue.gif Waste is a product of being a human in any urban environment, that is a reality. Having to clean up waste by others, now that I could rant about.

Anyway, before someone tells us to stick our green thumb in a place where it will no longer be green I will stop here. Besides, Black should be on you minds by this point, I just picked up a new Lumagen Mini-3D for a fabulous deal and I'm not even in the US. That should make some of
you GREEN with envy. biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif
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post #461 of 4177 Old 11-27-2013, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post

I don't "claim" to be or advocate that one should be a greenie, what I do personally I do for my health and personal environment. Like you Mark, I see a lot of Hypocrisy in the entire green movement that is primarily used as a marketing tool. I do feel we have a personally responsibility
to take care of the place for future generations but I am certainly not on any soap box either. I for one do not feel bad consuming a few watts using a PC while on the net , I have to for my job anyway. Sending messages electronically today is a lot better than energy consumed via the other methods anyway, I use to need
a small power plant to run the old Telex machine tongue.gif Waste is a product of being a human in any urban environment, that is a reality. Having to clean up waste by others, now that I could rant about.

Anyway, before someone tells us to stick our green thumb in a place where it will no longer be green I will stop here. Besides, Black should be on you minds by this point, I just picked up a new Lumagen Mini-3D for a fabulous deal and I'm not even in the US. That should make some of
you GREEN with envy.
biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif

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post #462 of 4177 Old 11-27-2013, 11:58 AM
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Until my 600 shows up, I wanted to get a copy of the manual. Anyone know where I can find it on line?

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post #463 of 4177 Old 11-27-2013, 12:07 PM
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Its amazing how you guys are using the internet and still claiming you are green. I am joking but the world would be a tiny little bit greener if you guys saved using all that electricity and not read and post on this forum

 

I am so addicted to AVS Forum that I installed 36 250w solar panels on my roof.

 

Obligatory VPL-VW600ES content: I ordered mine yesterday! Along with the 4K media server & tablet!

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post #464 of 4177 Old 11-27-2013, 12:08 PM
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Until my 600 shows up, I wanted to get a copy of the manual. Anyone know where I can find it on line?

 

Scroll up to post # 459.

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post #465 of 4177 Old 11-27-2013, 01:08 PM
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I am so addicted to AVS Forum that I installed 36 250w solar panels on my roof.

Obligatory VPL-VW600ES content: I ordered mine yesterday! Along with the 4K media server & tablet!

+ 1, but I just ran an extension cord from my neighbors house, it really saves on ones electric bill wink.gif
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post #466 of 4177 Old 11-27-2013, 03:03 PM
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post #467 of 4177 Old 11-27-2013, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post

Hmmmm, is a 15K projector green I wonder?? Green is a marketing tool, that makes a lot of people feel justified with their purchases , I see more waste with so called green than anything else.

I grow my own vegatables, recycle, compost and do not use pesticides or other chemicals. I walk and or bike rather than drive when I can but. I was green before anyone knew what green meant
but am I doing enough??????? Nope, I don't think so but at least I do my little bit. Sustainable green is when you see 1 square kilometer of green space between you and a neighbor and I don't quite
see that much to be honest.

So, yea I do think we should all be a little green but personally, I think most people are a little colour blind.

lol wink.gif, no actually you do a lot, admitted.
But batteries are a very inefficient energy source (and new ones uses grey energy), is I'd like to avoid battery garbage if I can.

100% green would mean leaving civilization. I'm not going that far but if I an avoid waste I try

But so far it seems that alternative glasses are not really spread, at least with 500 owners.
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post #468 of 4177 Old 11-27-2013, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post

+1... you're doing 99% more than most already...

Here's an idea that governments are refusing to implement...

1) Pass laws to insist all new houses have garden roofs. The garden part traps water which then evaporates back into the atmosphere.. meaning, green all around instead of concrete jungles... this would ensure the house is really cool and very little air-conditioning needed.
2. Solar farms / solar roofs (solar is cheaper than coal today)
3. Electric vehicles only (ban all combustion engines by a certain year)...

But alas, too many interests like oil companies, etc...

BTW: Before someone tells me it's 'too expensive for solar', imagine this.. the cost of the war in iraq alone is enough to pay for solar roofs for every single house in the USA and there'll still be lots left over to give every family a free electric car...

Ups, didn't want to start a political debate smile.gif

2. A texas fellow really said: "But they are so ugly". In Texas... smile.gif
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post #469 of 4177 Old 11-27-2013, 04:10 PM
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As far as I understand you are correct in that it will not stretch 4k or 3D for anamorphic use. Lumagen are suppose to be making a processor that will do both, available some time very soon, January as I understand. . I've heard rumors the PS4 may be able to do the 3D, not absolutely sure though.

I was adamant that the 500/600ES PJ is not worth the investment without 4K, mostly on the feedback and rants through forums all over the internet. Now that I have witnessed the PJ myself I have to say, without a doubt , the image this PJ will display on ANY content blows me away. Like I said, I'm now eating my words, and very , very
glad to say I have to do so . wink.gif

if you can stretch and zoom ...i dont see this as being a big deal... 4k is has such dense pixel structure...no deal breaker for me. Remember 4k Movie cameras use a 17:9 image sensor ....
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post #470 of 4177 Old 11-27-2013, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Its amazing how you guys are using the internet and still claiming you are green. I am joking but the world would be a tiny little bit greener if you guys saved using all that electricity and not read and post on this forum,. Instead keep those posting machines shut off. smile.gif And this green term is really just babble. If a business doesn't do something, it claims its green. I don't get the term. Use your dirty towels for a week, we are green unless you want clean towels, we are still green but you are not. Ditto for serving water at a restaurant, we are green and don't do it unless you ask, we are then green, you are not. How about a big glass bottle (often green) of bottled water imported thousands of miles.

I find its all BS. I graduated from Engineering school in 1967 and was one of the first to graduate with a Bachelor of Science in Environmental Engineering (actually half science and engineering). Then I went to law school and in my applications to attend law school stated that I wanted to be Environmental Lawyer and they had no idea what I was talking about. By the time I graduated, they were teaching courses in environmental law. Its too much me here, but I was involved with establishing the first earth day. I will stop there but there is lot more. Tell me about conservation, this green is nothing new. Just a cool term for the social media age. And I wouldn't be caught dead being green, calling myself green, or doing many of things that greenies think are the socially responsible thing to do.

Now I have to continue...
And no offense, but that's what I hear as argument mostly from americans (and probably from Chinese now..)

But being green doesn't mean not using energy, basically every one in the civilized world is bad for the environment. But it can also be worse.
My understanding is to not waste any kind of resource if I can easily avoid it. And wasting means using it without getting anything for it.

Not much effort to do so for many people. Example?
It is proven that almost every car would not have a problem to be switched of at a liight. Even if it just 3 seconds, it would save energy and not harm the engine or the starter. New cars do that for a reason.
Image everyone just doing that instead of keeping it running for 10 or 60 seconds for nothing...?
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post #471 of 4177 Old 11-27-2013, 04:18 PM
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I don't "claim" to be or advocate that one should be a greenie, what I do personally I do for my health and personal environment. Like you Mark, I see a lot of Hypocrisy in the entire green movement that is primarily used as a marketing tool. I do feel we have a personally responsibility
to take care of the place for future generations but I am certainly not on any soap box either. I for one do not feel bad consuming a few watts using a PC while on the net , I have to for my job anyway. Sending messages electronically today is a lot better than energy consumed via the other methods anyway, I use to need
a small power plant to run the old Telex machine tongue.gif Waste is a product of being a human in any urban environment, that is a reality. Having to clean up waste by others, now that I could rant about.

Anyway, before someone tells us to stick our green thumb in a place where it will no longer be green I will stop here. Besides, Black should be on you minds by this point, I just picked up a new Lumagen Mini-3D for a fabulous deal and I'm not even in the US. That should make some of
you GREEN with envy. biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif

Not US, that's probably the reason. Sorry fellows smile.gif

back to topic. I was thinking about getting a processort, basically it would simplify calibration a lot but I figured that they don't add thatt much, if at all, to improving the picture itself, I think.
But if the self calibration is working that well, I just have to do it once and let it correct itself. Well, that's the idea.

And those Lumagen are rather expensive. Would probably settle for a DVDO just for automating that.
Still, what do you think you get out of it?
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post #472 of 4177 Old 11-27-2013, 05:08 PM
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Still, what do you think you get out of it?

No more than the relative accuracy of the meter - ever!

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post #473 of 4177 Old 11-27-2013, 05:25 PM
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No more than the relative accuracy of the meter - ever!

you do it for aumotation reasons then, not for possible improvements?
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post #474 of 4177 Old 11-27-2013, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Roland Janus View Post

you do it for aumotation reasons then, not for possible improvements?

Automation? No. Dig into my signature and you'll find what I do with 3D LUTs. smile.gif In any case, no calibration will be better than the accuracy of the meter, no matter what the charts say. The charts are based on "thinking" that the meter is accurate. If the meter is inaccurate the charts will look good but the display will not.

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post #475 of 4177 Old 11-27-2013, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Its amazing how you guys are using the internet and still claiming you are green. I am joking but the world would be a tiny little bit greener if you guys saved using all that electricity and not read and post on this forum,. Instead keep those posting machines shut off. smile.gif And this green term is really just babble. If a business doesn't do something, it claims its green. I don't get the term. Use your dirty towels for a week, we are green unless you want clean towels, we are still green but you are not. Ditto for serving water at a restaurant, we are green and don't do it unless you ask, we are then green, you are not. How about a big glass bottle (often green) of bottled water imported thousands of miles.

I find its all BS. I graduated from Engineering school in 1967 and was one of the first to graduate with a Bachelor of Science in Environmental Engineering (actually half science and engineering). Then I went to law school and in my applications to attend law school stated that I wanted to be Environmental Lawyer and they had no idea what I was talking about. By the time I graduated, they were teaching courses in environmental law. Its too much me here, but I was involved with establishing the first earth day. I will stop there but there is lot more. Tell me about conservation, this green is nothing new. Just a cool term for the social media age. And I wouldn't be caught dead being green, calling myself green, or doing many of things that greenies think are the socially responsible thing to do.

I believe the internet has a net 'positive' on 'green' rather than a net negative... in fact, i think the internet is a net positive for most things...

For instance, with the internet, we're all talking about being green now... and governments are pressured into being more green, and so are corporations...

'Using energy' is not the problem.. the problem is using the right kind of energy (we have ample amount of free energy, just do not have the right sort of governments to make use of them or set the directions).. and the internet, collaborations, learning, science, is helping us in that direction... if you have 6 billion people not using electricity, but rather burning wood to cook their food, riding horses to work, you'll be 'less green'... tongue.gif
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post #476 of 4177 Old 11-27-2013, 10:20 PM
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Teaching cows not to fart would make the planet better but not sure how this would help a Sony 4k projector:)smile.gif
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post #477 of 4177 Old 11-27-2013, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by tigerfan33 View Post

Teaching cows not to fart would make the planet better but not sure how this would help a Sony 4k projector:)smile.gif

Feed the cows Gas X Ultra? tongue.gif
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post #478 of 4177 Old 11-27-2013, 11:00 PM
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You guys had me totally fooled. Despite clicking on a thread for the new 600ES, I quickly became convinced that I'd stumbled into the OT section of CurtPalme.com via some strange internet black hole.

There are 10 types of people: those who understand binary, and those who don't.

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post #479 of 4177 Old 11-28-2013, 06:11 AM
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Originally Posted by HogPilot View Post

You guys had me totally fooled. Despite clicking on a thread for the new 600ES, I quickly became convinced that I'd stumbled into the OT section of CurtPalme.com via some strange internet black hole.

Yes indeed Mr. Hogpilot, you are in the green now. We have all decided to save electricity, sit in our theaters with the PJ off and imagine a movie instead. You'll save the planet in the process and have the best Blacks, contrast and color may
vary depending on your level of imagination. If you want even better blacks maybe you should go to Future Shop on Friday, the deals will be fabulous. Just walk, have to save the planet after all.

wink.gifbiggrin.gif
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post #480 of 4177 Old 11-28-2013, 06:39 AM
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May I ask what is the best suggestion for a DIY home calibration process? The software and necessary hardware to achieve the same is what I am referring to. I would gladly pay for a professional calibration
if that was available to me, unfortunately it is not . My only option would be to fly in a calibration professional and that is too expensive from my location.

To be honest, out of the box performance of my 500ES is fantastic anyway, the only annoying detail that I notice for now is a sort of ghosting in 2D from time to time. I would guess it is some kind of motion flow issue
that I have not had time to figure out thus far. I've only had possession for 10 days and I've been on the road for 8 so maybe this weekend I will endeavor to tweak the beast some what.

All comments and suggestions welcome.

Thanks smile.gif
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Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

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