Official Sony VPL-VW500ES / VW600ES 4K Projector Thread - Page 166 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4951 of 5305 Old 04-24-2015, 10:23 AM
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Question about the scaler in the Denon 4520 (the receiver I use as a pre-pro). When I set the Denon to just pass the native signal -- for almost all sources my 500ES operates perfectly and outputs a beautifully upscale picture (and this is my current standard setting). The only minor quible is when I am adjusting my Velodyne SMS-1 and using it as a "source" to display the video. Then I need to have the receiver actively scale the picture to 1080p before sending the image to the projector. For some reason -- the 500ES refuses to display the image from the SMS-1 feed natively through the Denon. Minor quibble -- not really an issue.

However, if I ask the Denon to scale the video to 4K (and do the up-converting) with a source like say Blu Ray (via my PS3 or PS4) or DirecTV (or any other source for that matter), the 500ES will display no picture at all. Why is the 500ES unable to display the 4K scaled image from the Denon 4520?

I am using HDMI 1 on the 500ES if that mattes.

It doesn't really bother me as most all of my content is either 1080p (blu ray, HD-DVD, games) or 720p/1080i (DirecTV) -- and the Sony PJ handles the up-scaling without issue. But I was just wondering how well the Denon could do the upscaling -- and it seems that the Sony and Denon refuse to play nicely when the Denon handles the 4K upscaling.

Is this a known issue?
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post #4952 of 5305 Old 04-24-2015, 10:42 AM
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Yep, a lot of people prefer the scaling of the Sony, even though it does introduce a slight bit of ringing. Most don't notice that ringing and perceive it as a sharper image. Really as Mark said, if you go looking for these things, you will find them, once you know what to look for and then you can't un-see them. Sometimes it is better to be blissfully unaware.

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post #4953 of 5305 Old 04-24-2015, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skrill View Post
Question about the scaler in the Denon 4520 (the receiver I use as a pre-pro). When I set the Denon to just pass the native signal -- for almost all sources my 500ES operates perfectly and outputs a beautifully upscale picture (and this is my current standard setting). The only minor quible is when I am adjusting my Velodyne SMS-1 and using it as a "source" to display the video. Then I need to have the receiver actively scale the picture to 1080p before sending the image to the projector. For some reason -- the 500ES refuses to display the image from the SMS-1 feed natively through the Denon. Minor quibble -- not really an issue.

However, if I ask the Denon to scale the video to 4K (and do the up-converting) with a source like say Blu Ray (via my PS3 or PS4) or DirecTV (or any other source for that matter), the 500ES will display no picture at all. Why is the 500ES unable to display the 4K scaled image from the Denon 4520?

I am using HDMI 1 on the 500ES if that mattes.

It doesn't really bother me as most all of my content is either 1080p (blu ray, HD-DVD, games) or 720p/1080i (DirecTV) -- and the Sony PJ handles the up-scaling without issue. But I was just wondering how well the Denon could do the upscaling -- and it seems that the Sony and Denon refuse to play nicely when the Denon handles the 4K upscaling.

Is this a known issue?
Not sure what resolution comes out of the SMS-1 but going by memory, the Sony may not be able to accept 480i (?) or lower.

I am also interested in the answer to your second question. I have a Photo app on my PS3 that can be set to output in 4K but it refuses to do so as it says the display is not 4K (?). It is a bummer not to be able to show photos in 4k w/o PC/laptop. Glitch in the HDMI protocol I guess.
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post #4954 of 5305 Old 04-25-2015, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skrill View Post
Question about the scaler in the Denon 4520 (the receiver I use as a pre-pro). When I set the Denon to just pass the native signal -- for almost all sources my 500ES operates perfectly and outputs a beautifully upscale picture (and this is my current standard setting). The only minor quible is when I am adjusting my Velodyne SMS-1 and using it as a "source" to display the video. Then I need to have the receiver actively scale the picture to 1080p before sending the image to the projector. For some reason -- the 500ES refuses to display the image from the SMS-1 feed natively through the Denon. Minor quibble -- not really an issue.

However, if I ask the Denon to scale the video to 4K (and do the up-converting) with a source like say Blu Ray (via my PS3 or PS4) or DirecTV (or any other source for that matter), the 500ES will display no picture at all. Why is the 500ES unable to display the 4K scaled image from the Denon 4520?

I am using HDMI 1 on the 500ES if that mattes.

It doesn't really bother me as most all of my content is either 1080p (blu ray, HD-DVD, games) or 720p/1080i (DirecTV) -- and the Sony PJ handles the up-scaling without issue. But I was just wondering how well the Denon could do the upscaling -- and it seems that the Sony and Denon refuse to play nicely when the Denon handles the 4K upscaling.

Is this a known issue?



Have you tried the HDMI 2 ( which is the HDCP 2.2 compatible input ) ?


dj

Last edited by d.j.; 04-25-2015 at 10:16 AM.
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post #4955 of 5305 Old 04-25-2015, 11:31 AM
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Thanks for comments regarding what to use for up scaling.

I have one more question. My Sony is in living room with white walls and floor. My screen is Screenline Tab tensioned 110 inch mat white 1.0 gain. I'm planning on getting a new screen. So, would I have better contrast (picture in whole) if I buy a grey high contrast screen (it would be bigger than the current one at 130-140 inch) or to stay with mat surface since it would be larger in size? Would there be a huge difference? From what I red on line, it should have more impact in living room than in cave, or I might be wrong?

Thanks
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post #4956 of 5305 Old 04-25-2015, 11:38 AM
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To add, Im projecting now from 3,35m (so I have to zoom out to the max now at 2,05 based on calculator), but would be moving both screen and projector so that I would be projecting from 4,25-4,4m so zoom would be from 1,85 to 2,00, depending on the diagonal.
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post #4957 of 5305 Old 04-25-2015, 11:53 AM
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Last but not least, I am watching movies at night without any lights, so I have light controlled room, except walls.
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post #4958 of 5305 Old 04-25-2015, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d.j. View Post
Have you tried the HDMI 2 ( which is the HDCP 2.2 compatible input ) ?


dj
I can try it -- but that shouldn't be the issue since none of the content is HDCP 2.2 protected (and the Denon 4520 is not HDCP 2.2 enabled).
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post #4959 of 5305 Old 04-26-2015, 03:01 PM
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Sony just sent my another unit of the 500es...they could not fix my old one.

This unit is equipped with the firmware 1.200 A. Everything is perfect but I notice some lag when I watch blu ray disc (audio comes first). It is subtle but it bothers me. With the old unit firmware 1.100 I had not this problem. Anyone has reported this?

I know there is the IMPUT LAG option that I can activate and that actually works to solve this problem, but does it downgrades the image?

Thanks for your help
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post #4960 of 5305 Old 04-26-2015, 03:34 PM
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An easy fix is to set an audio delay in your sound receiver/processor. Some blu-ray players also have such a feature. This will ensure that enabling the lower input lag mode doesn't alter image quality.
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post #4961 of 5305 Old 04-26-2015, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
An easy fix is to set an audio delay in your sound receiver/processor. Some blu-ray players also have such a feature. This will ensure that enabling the lower input lag mode doesn't alter image quality.

That is the way to do it. the video processing tajes longer than the audio processing and there is no cost in slowing the audio to equal the time needed to process the video. If one uses the input lag shortening in the projector, it switches to quicker but less good scaling.

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post #4962 of 5305 Old 04-26-2015, 11:05 PM
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Actually I don't have the possibility to delay the audio in my player (OPPO 93) or receiver...but I was wondering if anybody reported this issue with firmware 1.200 A. With the old firmware I didn't have this problem...

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post #4963 of 5305 Old 04-27-2015, 06:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homer J Simpson View Post
Actually I don't have the possibility to delay the audio in my player (OPPO 93) or receiver...but I was wondering if anybody reported this issue with firmware 1.200 A. With the old firmware I didn't have this problem...
What AVR do you have? I ask since lip sync has been a pretty common feature for a while now.

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post #4964 of 5305 Old 04-27-2015, 06:11 AM
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I own a classé SSP-30 preamplifier....pretty old but it sounds great. I fear I'll have to upgrade from oppo 93 to 103

Last edited by Homer J Simpson; 04-27-2015 at 06:47 AM.
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post #4965 of 5305 Old 04-27-2015, 08:34 AM
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I own a classé SSP-30 preamplifier....pretty old but it sounds great. I fear I'll have to upgrade from oppo 93 to 103
If you are using the analogue outputs from the 93 into your Classé then changing to a 103 will give you the option of up to 100mS audio delay. However, if you are using HDMI or coax/optical output from your 93 then you would need to replace the Classé for something with audio delay built in.

(FWIW I have a 93 and was trying to use it via analogue outputs, but my Lumagen 2041/JVC X500 means I have a lip sync issue, so I considered the 103 myself. I've decided that I'll live with 'core' DTS for another 6 months until I buy a new processor).

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post #4966 of 5305 Old 04-27-2015, 10:18 AM
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Yes but limited to 10.2gbs, as apposed to the full 18gbs on the HDMI, as I understand.

Ive run 2160p@60hz on mine 8:2:0 through my HTPC but havent testet hdcp 2.2 but it should be good to go for UHD blu Ray with rec709.

Watching the first UHD blu Ray is going to awesome, can't wait:-)
Ok, so in simple language, what will that cost us? Not having access to 18gps?

If I understand things correctly, it may be a while before the 18gps standard is available on UHD BR anyway? Or is it closer than we think?

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post #4967 of 5305 Old 04-27-2015, 11:50 AM
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Ok, so in simple language, what will that cost us? Not having access to 18gps?

If I understand things correctly, it may be a while before the 18gps standard is available on UHD BR anyway? Or is it closer than we think?

Unless you want to be one of those early adopters, I'm guessing 3 or 4 years is when I worry about UHD BR. The latest crop of Blu Rays look pretty darn good right now ! YMMV.
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post #4968 of 5305 Old 04-27-2015, 11:54 AM
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Unless you want to be one of those early adopters, I'm guessing 3 or 4 years is when I worry about UHD BR. The latest crop of Blu Rays look pretty darn good right now ! YMMV.
Craig,

You mean 1080 upscaled on a VW500 or 600, yes? My dilemma which I posted on another thread is, I have an X500 currently, so should I sell it off now and move to a Sony, or tough it out till year end, and yes, early adopt.

But i guess Id be hoping I'd be early adopting at the right time - but if the 18 gas standard won't be relevant for 23 years or so, then the current Sonys could be a good buy?

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post #4969 of 5305 Old 04-27-2015, 12:04 PM
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The only 4K projector I'd buy today is the VW1100, it's the only one that supports P3 gamut, which is likely (hopefully) what most UHD Blu-ray's will use. Without that I think you're missing a significant portion of the benefit of UHD BD. I'm not sure I'd worry too much about 18Gbps, that really only matters when you start getting into high frame rates, which are unlikely to be a big deal for a while. Most UHD is going to be 24fps (ie Movies) for a long time.
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post #4970 of 5305 Old 04-27-2015, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AidenL View Post
Craig,

You mean 1080 upscaled on a VW500 or 600, yes? My dilemma which I posted on another thread is, I have an X500 currently, so should I sell it off now and move to a Sony, or tough it out till year end, and yes, early adopt.

But i guess Id be hoping I'd be early adopting at the right time - but if the 18 gas standard won't be relevant for 23 years or so, then the current Sonys could be a good buy?
It will be several years before you need the full 18, rather than 10.2. Only thing that you may be missing out on is DCI color space with VW600 or VW350. Keep in mind movie theaters are DCI and yet for years on here, nobody has ever commented how the picture looks better at the theater, than it does in their home.
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post #4971 of 5305 Old 04-27-2015, 12:25 PM
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It will be several years before you need the full 18, rather than 10.2. Only thing that you may be missing out on is DCI color space with VW600 or VW350. Keep in mind movie theaters are DCI and yet for years on here, nobody has ever commented how the picture looks better at the theater, than it does in their home.
I was at Avengers Age of Ultron on Saturday night, and I thought it actually looked slightly worse in the cinema than at home ! Worse blacks anyway. But I enjoyed the movie !

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post #4972 of 5305 Old 04-27-2015, 12:26 PM
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The only 4K projector I'd buy today is the VW1100, it's the only one that supports P3 gamut, which is likely (hopefully) what most UHD Blu-ray's will use. Without that I think you're missing a significant portion of the benefit of UHD BD. I'm not sure I'd worry too much about 18Gbps, that really only matters when you start getting into high frame rates, which are unlikely to be a big deal for a while. Most UHD is going to be 24fps (ie Movies) for a long time.
Beyond my budget , sadly for me, so I'll have to settle for lesser machine......

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post #4973 of 5305 Old 04-27-2015, 01:07 PM
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That's why I'd just wait, see what's announced this fall. I'm "hoping" (expecting) to see some more options in the ~$10k MSRP range that support at least P3, while being native 2160p.
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post #4974 of 5305 Old 04-27-2015, 01:50 PM
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Hi Folks,

I just got a replacement for my VW500ES2 (greenish dots all over the Panel). Actually it took prime support 4(four) weeks to send a new one.....
now I got a ES3 and just installed and calibrated it.
I noticed something rattleing/vibrating in there when I put the device on it's shelf. Doesn't do it when running, just when I (gentle) tap on the left air outlet, the side where the IR sensor is, I hear it loud and clear. (no matter if in on or off state)

Now not sure if my old one did that as well, but I'm almost certain I would have noticed.
Also we all here think it is louder with an additional higher tone than the old one.
Anyway, maybe we are just over sensitve now since the whole Situation is really annoying! But the strange rattleing is really making me nervous.

Can anyone here with an VW500ES2/3 try slightly tapping the left air outlet area and listen if itr vibrates on your's as well? (really not to heavy. just as if you would be tapping your fingers on a table when waiting for something - hard to explain, sorry.)
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post #4975 of 5305 Old 04-27-2015, 02:26 PM
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Ohne more Thing, As far as I remember the air outlet was on BOTH sides, left and right of the lense, Right? It seems this one sucks in air on the right side.....
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post #4976 of 5305 Old 04-27-2015, 04:06 PM
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One side is air in, the other is air out. Probably the noise is a cable hitting the side. The cabling final dressing is by hand. I wouldn't worry about it.

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post #4977 of 5305 Old 04-27-2015, 09:52 PM
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Sure about that?
The manual states in from behind, around the lens and front-bottom

Also found this pic which I remember was also shown on Sony's Site

http://www.heimkinoraum.de/upload/im...500_ES_air.jpg
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post #4978 of 5305 Old 04-27-2015, 11:38 PM
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Thanks for all the answers. Anyway I find this new unit ES3 with firmware 1.200 A much better than the previous one. More contrast in the image...I mean sometimes I noticed in some movie (like the miserables) something like a grayish veil on dark scene, now is much better. Also the creative engine works better. With my PS4 I could not pass the value of 20, now I can move up to 40 without artifacts...it seems to do a more gentle job.
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post #4979 of 5305 Old 04-28-2015, 09:13 AM
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Anyone ever had this happen with their 500ES/600ES?

The other day I went into my theater room, turned on my system -- and left to get a beer (SOP for me). Usually by the time I get back -- the PJ is pretty warmed up and projecting a nice picture.

In this case -- the PJ was not on. I thought maybe the remote signal had failed to register -- but when I looked at the PJ there was no red standby light (or green "on" light) -- just no light at all. It was like the PJ was unplugged -- but it was plugged in however. I had a moment of panic ... checked the relevant circuit breaker ... nothing tripped.

So grabbed my step stool -- unplugged the PJ physically from the outlet, and plugged it back in. I heard a couple of relays click -- and the red standby light came on. I then powered on the PJ from the remote as normal and it appeared fine. In fact, I have used it for a couple of days now-- with no further issue. At no time did the warning light come on.

This occurred on Sunday -- and we did have an overnight thunderstorm with a very brief power interruption (the kind that makes some but not all your clocks flash 12:00). This occured while we were asleep and the PJ was in standby mode. It is plugged directly into the outlet -- but our panels are on whole-home surge protectors so all outlets have surge protection.

I am thinking that the brief (i.e., second or two) power interruption might have tripped the 500ES to go into full "off" mode (no red standby light). Does this make sense? Is this normal operation?
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post #4980 of 5305 Old 04-28-2015, 09:44 AM
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It sounds like the PJ circuit protection worked very nicely. Panel mounted surge protector is the way to go but while it protects from surges, it does nothing for power dips which I understand can be equally harmful. The PJ took care of that it seems by shutting off completely. I have thought about adding UPS in front for two reasons: avoid immediate shutdown on power interruption (rare event around here) to allow lamp to cool first, and avoid voltage dips. Still undecided though.

Last edited by George Kouzev; 04-28-2015 at 10:18 AM.
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Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

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