Official Sony VPL-VW500ES / VW600ES 4K Projector Thread - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 3604 Old 12-01-2013, 08:47 AM
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Sorry but I have a question , I saw this PJ on Audiogon for 14k wonder if the price is any Kosher ?...
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post #542 of 3604 Old 12-01-2013, 08:51 AM
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Yes. The price is allowable under Sony's rules as a self installation credit. Even a higher credit self installation credit is allowed. I would suggest you contact AV Science, either Mike or Craig.

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post #543 of 3604 Old 12-01-2013, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Soccerdude View Post

Sorry but I have a question , I saw this PJ on Audiogon for 14k wonder if the price is any Kosher ?...

Sent you a PM. smile.gif

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post #544 of 3604 Old 12-01-2013, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by d.j. View Post

Canary J

I know you have had a 95ES before ( like I did smile.gif ) , how do you compare the crosstalk and brightness with that projector ( gives me an ide off the performence )

dj

Hi. Yes, I only just sold my VW95. I had no complaints really about the 3d performance. I would have liked some more brightness perhaps, but I guess we could wish that for every projector in 3d too. I think I need to do some more tests, but so far what I'm seeing on the VW500 is more crosstalk and it seems to be less detailed. After running it for another hour in 3d today the layering issue seems to have eased somewhat, which is really curious. Without RC on I find the 3d image somewhat soft and lacking detail, but RC can add artefacts which I'm not keen on. With all the extra lumens under the hood I thought that the VW500 would give brighter 3d but it doesn't seem to be so - at least to the naked eye. BTW, I haven't had a chance to calibrate and measure correctly yet so these are just impressions. I really need to test another VW500 so that I can compare performance and gauge whether mine is normal or not.
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post #545 of 3604 Old 12-01-2013, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canary_Jules View Post

Hi. My screen is 110" diagonal 16:9.

The crosstalk and layering issue occurs with whatever mode is selected as is the apparent loss of resolution/detail. This is in contradiction to what a number of reviews have said which praise the amount of detail. However, I know that a friend/colleague of mine who is reviewing the VW500 for a well known website is experiencing the same issue. So it may be that here in the UK there are a couple of VW500s being sent around for review, and one has an issue with 3d while the other doesn't. I'm going to try and pop along to the distributor tomorrow and compare the 3d performance on their demo machine if possible.

110" , 16:9 and only 1.0 gain unfortunately will be weak . My HW50ES on a 95" diagonal 16:9 with 1.4 gain screen was weak. Like I mentioned, the 500 is a little brighter but will not make up the difference on a bigger screen combined with lower gain.

Hope you figure out the crosstalk. One more thing to consider is that some movies are great in 3D , others are terrible and are more prone to crosstalk . You may want to check this out a little more, do a Google search etc. I read this in an article somewhere a while back, this is not first hand experience. To be honest I had little trouble with my HW50ES in 3D and the little that I did see did not bother me.

I will certainly be plenty pissed with Sony if I encounter these issues with my new 500 PJ. At this price point, it would be totally unacceptable. mad.gif
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post #546 of 3604 Old 12-01-2013, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post

110" , 16:9 and only 1.0 gain unfortunately will be weak . My HW50ES on a 95" diagonal 16:9 with 1.4 gain screen was weak. Like I mentioned, the 500 is a little brighter but will not make up the difference on a bigger screen combined with lower gain.

Hope you figure out the crosstalk. One more thing to consider is that some movies are great in 3D , others are terrible and are more prone to crosstalk . You may want to check this out a little more, do a Google search etc. I read this in an article somewhere a while back, this is not first hand experience. To be honest I had little trouble with my HW50ES in 3D and the little that I did see did not bother me.

I will certainly be plenty pissed with Sony if I encounter these issues with my new 500 PJ. At this price point, it would be totally unacceptable. mad.gif

Thanks Roxiedog. Yes indeed, I appreciate the point about some movies proving to be a 'crosstalk challenge.' I calibrate professionally almost every day and run tests on all the TVs and projectors I have the pleasure to deal with. You see varying levels of crosstalk depending on the nature of the device, whether it be DLP, LCD, plasma, DILA, or SXRD. It's just my observation that there's more crosstalk visible on my VW500 than there was on my VW95. It's the apparent lack of detail in 3d on my VW500 that is also concerning me. But what I really need to do is check another VW500 and then I'll have a better idea as to what is 'normal' for these models. I hope to have that opportunity later today! So will post back tonight if that happens. With regard to the lack of brightness I guess I will have to bite the bullet and install a second high gain screen just for 3d.
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post #547 of 3604 Old 12-02-2013, 05:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Canary_Jules View Post

Thanks Roxiedog. Yes indeed, I appreciate the point about some movies proving to be a 'crosstalk challenge.' I calibrate professionally almost every day and run tests on all the TVs and projectors I have the pleasure to deal with. You see varying levels of crosstalk depending on the nature of the device, whether it be DLP, LCD, plasma, DILA, or SXRD. It's just my observation that there's more crosstalk visible on my VW500 than there was on my VW95. It's the apparent lack of detail in 3d on my VW500 that is also concerning me. But what I really need to do is check another VW500 and then I'll have a better idea as to what is 'normal' for these models. I hope to have that opportunity later today! So will post back tonight if that happens. With regard to the lack of brightness I guess I will have to bite the bullet and install a second high gain screen just for 3d.

I have a package at the mail office, hoping it is my 3D glasses. If it is I will do some research myself tonight rolleyes.gif if you can call that research . I am definitely going for the second screen option and anything less than 2.2 gain in my opinion would be a waist of time. My guess is that I will go with a Screen Innovations
Black Diamond 2.7, DnP Silverstar 2.3 or other similar angular reflective product. It will have less than stellar performance in 2D but will do the job nicely for 3D. Up side is if I want to watch sports or TV with company, I can leave some lights on.

When you have a chance maybe you could drop by and calibrate my 500ES, I'm only a short 4000KM jump across the pond to the West. Closest point of land in North America straight line , do you have a dory ?? wink.gif
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post #548 of 3604 Old 12-02-2013, 06:00 AM
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With 3D, reality creation is needed to get a really sharp image. I noticed this too.

As for brightness and crosstalk, i'd say that the 3D is noticeably brighter to me than my VW95 was. Crosstalk is slightly better.

As stated before, change 3D brightness from high to normal, and i stick with the cinema 1 presets as well.
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post #549 of 3604 Old 12-02-2013, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitetrash66 View Post

With 3D, reality creation is needed to get a really sharp image. I noticed this too.

As for brightness and crosstalk, i'd say that the 3D is noticeably brighter to me than my VW95 was. Crosstalk is slightly better.

As stated before, change 3D brightness from high to normal, and i stick with the cinema 1 presets as well.

Did you find a aftermarket rechargeable alternative to the TDGBT500A 3D glasses ? I have 10 pairs of these coming from Future shop , should be here today.

Did you get a reference screen afterwards and if so how is it compared to the Stewart Reflections 170 1.7 3D you were using? I'm on the fence about my second screen, will probably go with a BD 2.7 or the DnP Silverstar 2.3 unless the
1.7 is sufficient with the 500ES.
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post #550 of 3604 Old 12-02-2013, 07:53 AM
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No, i didn't get anything but the sony glasses. They work great though smile.gif

Also, i have the 2.4 hp screen mounted to get me 1.8 gain. I'm happy, probably won't switch any time soon. Still very happy with the purchase though.
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post #551 of 3604 Old 12-02-2013, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by whitetrash66 View Post

No, i didn't get anything but the sony glasses. They work great though smile.gif

Also, i have the 2.4 hp screen mounted to get me 1.8 gain. I'm happy, probably won't switch any time soon. Still very happy with the purchase though.

Sorry, I had you mixed up with Shadow69, he had the Stewart Reflections 170 3D 1.7 gain screen and indeed, you had the 2.4HP with PJ ceiling mounted as you would with a angular reflective
screen yielding 1.8 gain. Some great screen shots as I recall, I was impressed for such a unconventional application to be honest. Actually, this has me thinking that I should call and have a sample sent to me
for evaluation, it may very well be a descent option. I'm considering the 2.7 BD and DnP 2.3 but those are angular reflective .

BTW, did you ever consider a ceiling drop for your projector ? For example you could lower the PJ for higher gain, lift it to have less. Just curious if you have tried several different positions, though 1.8 gain is a lot ? Spose we need
to take this to the screen thread although, it does apply directly to the 500ES we both have. tongue.gif
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post #552 of 3604 Old 12-02-2013, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post

Sorry, I had you mixed up with Shadow69, he had the Stewart Reflections 170 3D 1.7 gain screen and indeed, you had the 2.4HP with PJ ceiling mounted as you would with a angular reflective
screen yielding 1.8 gain. Some great screen shots as I recall, I was impressed for such a unconventional application to be honest. Actually, this has me thinking that I should call and have a sample sent to me
for evaluation, it may very well be a descent option. I'm considering the 2.7 BD and DnP 2.3 but those are angular reflective .

BTW, did you ever consider a ceiling drop for your projector ? For example you could lower the PJ for higher gain, lift it to have less. Just curious if you have tried several different positions, though 1.8 gain is a lot ? Spose we need
to take this to the screen thread although, it does apply directly to the 500ES we both have. tongue.gif

We set up my brothers system that way. He has an adjustable drop tube and an HP screen paired with an older Sony. My family room setup is similar to this also. I use an adjustable height floor mount that I made. I can place the projector lens anywhere from right above head height to 30" above head height.

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post #553 of 3604 Old 12-02-2013, 10:00 AM
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We set up my brothers system that way. He has an adjustable drop tube and an HP screen paired with an older Sony. My family room setup is similar to this also. I use an adjustable height floor mount that I made. I can place the projector lens anywhere from right above head height to 30" above head height.

Well then , don't leave us hanging ( excuse the pun ) biggrin.gif , how did the drop tube PJ HP screen work out ? Not sure if I would have ever considered a HP screen until I saw the screen shots from whitetrash66, the PQ was much better than I expected.
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post #554 of 3604 Old 12-02-2013, 10:28 AM
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Well then , don't leave us hanging ( excuse the pun ) biggrin.gif , how did the drop tube PJ HP screen work out ? Not sure if I would have ever considered a HP screen until I saw the screen shots from whitetrash66, the PQ was much better than I expected.

It works fine. Used a 3' to 5' adjustable drop tube. He can drop the projector down so that he can get max gain or leave it up a little higher to reduce the gain. Projector is mounted right behind the seating.

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post #555 of 3604 Old 12-03-2013, 01:55 AM
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Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post

I have a package at the mail office, hoping it is my 3D glasses. If it is I will do some research myself tonight rolleyes.gif if you can call that research . I am definitely going for the second screen option and anything less than 2.2 gain in my opinion would be a waist of time. My guess is that I will go with a Screen Innovations
Black Diamond 2.7, DnP Silverstar 2.3 or other similar angular reflective product. It will have less than stellar performance in 2D but will do the job nicely for 3D. Up side is if I want to watch sports or TV with company, I can leave some lights on.

When you have a chance maybe you could drop by and calibrate my 500ES, I'm only a short 4000KM jump across the pond to the West. Closest point of land in North America straight line , do you have a dory ?? wink.gif

LOL. I think you have lots of extremely capable calibrators on your side of the pond. As for screens, I'm contemplating going for a 2.4 gain HP for 3d.
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitetrash66 View Post

With 3D, reality creation is needed to get a really sharp image. I noticed this too.

As for brightness and crosstalk, i'd say that the 3D is noticeably brighter to me than my VW95 was. Crosstalk is slightly better.

As stated before, change 3D brightness from high to normal, and i stick with the cinema 1 presets as well.

I tested a client's VW500ES last night. He uses a 120" Grandview 1.1 gain electric screen and projects from 18ft. His room is painted white so it had a damaging effect on black levels and contrast. Nevertheless, I was surprised by how bright the 3d picture was given this screen size and projection distance. The same levels of crosstalk appeared to be there though they were slightly obscured by the more washed out picture. I tried the same test  scenes on my VW500 when I returned home and the same crosstalk was there only slightly more visible because of the heightened contrast in my bat cave. So I'm now persuaded that this is the native 3d performance of the VW500 and it's not a fault with my projector. These VW500s seem to need a long time to warm up. When I gave it my VW500 an hour to warm up last night the picture appeared to be brighter and therefore more pleasing. Speaking about warm up times this is clearly absolutely necessary for panel convergence. I observed that after 30 mins my client's VW500 became perfectly converged - no panel adjustments necessary. My VW500 is another matter altogether. Take a look at my convergence (sans adjustments but after appropriate warm up). I can correct this so that convergence is perfect but it requires some large numbers.

BTW, I concur, Reality Creation is absolutely necessary to get a more detailed, sharper image.
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post #556 of 3604 Old 12-03-2013, 04:03 AM
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As many here already know, I have a 110" D 1.0 gain screen lit by a Sony 1000ES. The 3D is dim but watcheable after about 1200 hours on the bulb. I really dislike the HP 2.4 screen for 2D watching but when I build a new theater when I move, Iwill employ a HP for 3D viewing only. I do very little of that thankfully,

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post #557 of 3604 Old 12-03-2013, 04:16 AM
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LOL. I think you have lots of extremely capable calibrators on your side of the pond. As for screens, I'm contemplating going for a 2.4 gain HP for 3d.
I tested a client's VW500ES last night. He uses a 120" Grandview 1.1 gain electric screen and projects from 18ft. His room is painted white so it had a damaging effect on black levels and contrast. Nevertheless, I was surprised by how bright the 3d picture was given this screen size and projection distance. The same levels of crosstalk appeared to be there though they were slightly obscured by the more washed out picture. I tried the same test  scenes on my VW500 when I returned home and the same crosstalk was there only slightly more visible because of the heightened contrast in my bat cave. So I'm now persuaded that this is the native 3d performance of the VW500 and it's not a fault with my projector. These VW500s seem to need a long time to warm up. When I gave it my VW500 an hour to warm up last night the picture appeared to be brighter and therefore more pleasing. Speaking about warm up times this is clearly absolutely necessary for panel convergence. I observed that after 30 mins my client's VW500 became perfectly converged - no panel adjustments necessary. My VW500 is another matter altogether. Take a look at my convergence (sans adjustments but after appropriate warm up). I can correct this so that convergence is perfect but it requires some large numbers.

BTW, I concur, Reality Creation is absolutely necessary to get a more detailed, sharper image.

Absolutely no calibrators where I live, believe me, certainly not within a 1500K anyway. It appears that most 500's do not need any initial calibration anyway from the feedback I am hearing. Mine certainly seems to be good out of the box
I have no issues that I can identify. Maybe down the road when the lamp is weaker I may need a calibration UNLESS the internal calibration process does actually work to make the correction. Nice when things work the way they are advertized
instead of being a sales gimmick .

I should have my 3D glasses today will report back how that works out later tonight or tomorrow AM . BTW, is it possible your 500 appears brighter after an hour because your eyes have adjusted to the low light ? I know when I night ski ( cross
country) I allow my eyes to acclimate for at least 20-30 minutes before I ski, one shot of light and it is ruined . Normally, it would then take another 20 minutes for my eyes to readjust or I have to use a headlamp, headtourch in your neck of the
woods wink.gif to be able to see adequately once again .
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Some starving professional calibrator should move to your area but I expect the population density is not much greater than the calibrator density in that area.

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post #560 of 3604 Old 12-03-2013, 05:27 AM
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Some starving professional calibrator should move to your area but I expect the population density is not much greater than the calibrator density in that area.

405,000 sq km of land in our province, 510,000 residents , 4 times the size of England or about 90% size of Texas . I imagine if a starving calibrator moved here his lot would not improve, it would decline from there. Here's my back yard LOL . BTW mark, you like
fishing I see, I could show you some pictures that would make you green ( not greenie) with envy. tongue.gif



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Actually, I do not fish. Nothing political, I just have other things I like to do better. I do like to eat fish and sea food though.

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post #562 of 3604 Old 12-03-2013, 08:01 AM
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Speaking about warm up times this is clearly absolutely necessary for panel convergence. I observed that after 30 mins my client's VW500 became perfectly converged - no panel adjustments necessary. My VW500 is another matter altogether. Take a look at my convergence (sans adjustments but after appropriate warm up). I can correct this so that convergence is perfect but it requires some large numbers.

BTW, I concur, Reality Creation is absolutely necessary to get a more detailed, sharper image.

now that it's a bit colder in my HT, I noticed it's taking about 30 mins for the convergence on my 1000 to settle down. What kind of #'s are you looking at to fix it?


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post #563 of 3604 Old 12-03-2013, 08:08 AM
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now that it's a bit colder in my HT, I noticed it's taking about 30 mins for the convergence on my 1000 to settle down. What kind of #'s are you looking at to fix it?

About the same - 30 mins. At least it warms the room up while we are waiting though smile.gif
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Actually, I do not fish. Nothing political, I just have other things I like to do better. I do like to eat fish and sea food though.

Sorry Mark, I thought fishing was on your profile....my bad . OK, then same for wildlife photography LOL , I do that too....somewhat. Just trying my hand at some wide field astro too, I have perfect skies and 360 degrees of horizon to work with.
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About the same - 30 mins. At least it warms the room up while we are waiting though smile.gif

My HT room has been kept on the cold side but I have not noticed the issues with convergence you speak of. I'll have to try to keep a closer eye on that next time I fire up the unit.
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"But the hard-core home theater VPL-VW500ES is such a drastic improvement in many ways that I can wholeheartedly recommend the purchase of just now. Even before it can even look at the genuine 4K material."

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post #567 of 3604 Old 12-03-2013, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

As many here already know, I have a 110" D 1.0 gain screen lit by a Sony 1000ES. The 3D is dim but watcheable after about 1200 hours on the bulb. I really dislike the HP 2.4 screen for 2D watching but when I build a new theater when I move, Iwill employ a HP for 3D viewing only. I do very little of that thankfully,

Why the Da-Lite HP 2.4 specifically, is your setup best for retro reflective or does this material have other characteristics you prefer?
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post #568 of 3604 Old 12-03-2013, 01:20 PM
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Review just posted in the UK AVForum:

http://www.avforums.com/review/sony-vpl-vw500es-4k-projector-review.9586
bweissman and Manni01 like this.

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post #569 of 3604 Old 12-03-2013, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post

Why the Da-Lite HP 2.4 specifically, is your setup best for retro reflective or does this material have other characteristics you prefer?

I assume it was a "gain" thing...

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post #570 of 3604 Old 12-03-2013, 03:04 PM
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Yes. Its mainly the gain thing and my projector is mounted lens center about 1/3 from the top of my 54 inch high screen, and my eyes are at about 1/3 up from the bottom of the screen leaving a spacing of 18 inches between the two so I should get quite a bit of the 2.4 gain possible. Then again, I will not do this until I move and projector height and screen size could change.

And except for the gain, I find very little great about this material. It has a lot of fleas but its for 3D.

Mark Haflich

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Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

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