Official Sony VPL-VW500ES / VW600ES 4K Projector Thread - Page 28 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #811 of 3652 Old 12-13-2013, 03:38 PM
Toe
AVS Addicted Member
 
Toe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 13,092
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 117 Post(s)
Liked: 459
Quote:
Originally Posted by VGI View Post

Darn, I overlooked the giants of patagonia as test material again smile.gif

Toe, we actually had the VW95 up until we put up the 600 a few days ago and we know what Star trek and Avatar looked like on the 96 and on these two movies its day and night better on the 600.

Thats all i was saying smile.gif

Craig


Not trying to get on you Craig I promise, smile.gif but I was making more of a general statement. Avatar is one of those 3d discs that is known to look good on most 3d displays as it is just not challenging when it comes to visible crosstalk.

How many hours were on the 95 by the way? As it has been shown here, and many of us have experienced first hand with non single chip DLP projectors, ghosting commonly becomes noticeably worse as the lamp ages which I saw with both my 45 and 40 and many others have reported with other various models over the last few years. If the lamp hours were not in the same ballpark, it was not a fair comparison IMO.

JVC 3D: Been there, done that, bought a DLP
Toe is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #812 of 3652 Old 12-13-2013, 03:47 PM
VGI
Advanced Member
 
VGI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Central NJ
Posts: 538
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Not trying to get on you Craig I promise, smile.gif but I was making more of a general statement. Avatar is one of those 3d discs that is known to look good on most 3d displays as it is just not challenging when it comes to visible crosstalk.

How many hours were on the 95 by the way? As it has been shown here, and many of us have experienced first hand with non single chip DLP projectors, ghosting commonly becomes noticeably worse as the lamp ages which I saw with both my 45 and 40 and many others have reported with other various models over the last few years. If the lamp hours were not in the same ballpark, it was not a fair comparison IMO.

Hey Toe,

Just playing smile.gif

The 95 has lots and lots of hours and of course the 600 has like 20 maybe so maybe not all that fair but I always remember the 95 being decent in 3d and the 600 is really good in 3d.. At the end of the day 3d for us is fun and has never been a requirement for perfection. We have always educated our customers that 3D is fun and they should use it for a fun movie night and the kids will love it. We should all understand that 3D is hard to do perfectly and it will probably never look like Passive Movie Theater 3d. It would be nice if it could.

Have a great weekend

Craig
VGI is offline  
post #813 of 3652 Old 12-13-2013, 03:48 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
R Harkness's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 11,996
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 110 Post(s)
Liked: 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Rich. You are wrong about hot spotting and a gray screen with a sprayed on optical materal not have the same brightness as a white scren with the same gain.

I'm always happy to declare my ignorance on a subject; but I don't think I'm wrong on this one. I did a lot of research on screens, especially the Firehawk, as for a number of years that was the screen I figured I'd buy.

As you know the Firehawk is constructed as an angular reflective screen, so it starts out reflecting light in a similar angular manner as a mirror, which is why it's best to try to optimize the angle of the projector above the screen to the screen and your head height, to maximise brightness and minimise hot-spotting. But the very reason the Firehawk works as it does is due to it's hot-spotting characteristics. The extra gain coating
applied on the Firehawk (G3) wouldn't do it's magic if it DIDN'T hot-spott, that is focus the light more like a mirror toward the viewer. So it HAS TO hot-spot. I can see the hot-spot standing in front of every Firehawk I've ever seen, under every lighting condition.

Over the years I've seen the Firehawk (usually G3, or earlier, which has been the materials I'm talking about) over and over, in every type of set up: projector at long throw, short throw, sitting close, sitting far, on axis, off-axis, projector high up, projector lower to screen, etc. In every single case the hotspotting was esaily visible to me. Even when it was slightly more subdued by the optimal projector location, it was always easy to see how the screen darkened on the far side when sitting off axis. It's no coincidence that every screen shot you'll ever see using a Firehawk shows a hot-spot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Gain is measured from a viewing location near screen center and ideally should measure the same no matter where you look at the screen from that location,

But it never is uniform. And objective measurements confirm that. I don't think you'll ever find measurements taken over the entire screen of a Firehawk that shows even illumination - all of it is within visible levels of non-uniformity.
Even at the same rated gain (in the middle) more of the Firehawk G3 screen will be darker than the same sized ST-130 (or ST100, obviously).
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Hot spoting is where from that location you see brightness vary . One or several spots loke brighter accross the screen. Assuming proper construction or fabrication of the screen material and uniformity in the application of sprayed on gain material, non uniformity is caused by the light from the projector hitting the screen at too great any angle from perpendicular. With high gain sprayed on, one needs to decrease the abgle and does so by shooting from a longer throw. That's it. Use at least a mnufacturer's recommended minimum throw and hot spoting should not be evident or very evident.

Aye, there's the rub. smile.gif

One person's "not very evident" is another's "Gawd that's annoying!" I would think you'd be in the latter category given your love of the ST100!
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Now if one views fro other than the center position, the gain will decrease but still be ubform accross the screen no matter where one looks from that location.

I have to say...I just don't believe it. Or, I'll believe it when I see it. First, the idea that the screen brightness would remain uniform as you move off-axis just doesn't really fit with the physics of how the screen works, and again I'd like to see even one set of measurements, taken with a projector light on the screen, that would support that it would. And the fact I've deliberately investigated the hot-spotting characteristics of the Firehawk for years now (because I've had just this debate with others) and it has hot-spotted in every installation I've ever seen...I remain skeptical. smile.gif

Rich H


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
R Harkness is online now  
post #814 of 3652 Old 12-13-2013, 04:00 PM
Member
 
Verbow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 67
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
A non related question - is that a SR CP2 screen you have there ? I think I regonize the weave smile.gif and how big is it ( wide ) and wich format ?

And no, thats not convergence error as SOWK say but CA. it looks pretty evident, it is so heavily visible in reality ? and then why ? ( it is then clearly in which case the lens divides itself clearly from 1000ES'eren in quality, as the 1000 lens almost no CA has.)

dj

Good eye! Yes, it's a 92" (diagonal) CP2 16:9 motorized screen (regular CP2, not the 4k) with masking. While obviously not huge, it works great in the space and has a very high WAF. And as Craig P mentioned, we sit 8 inches away for full immersion (chromatic aberration be damned) tongue.gif

It certainly was visible and I'm not sure why, though I would suspect the camera did amplify it. Tonight I'll step away a bit as Jason recommended and see at what point it decreases to my eye, though the type was very small. I had up the convergence test pattern and when very close noticed it there as well. With that being said, with my viewing distance (about 10 feet away) I would have never noticed it, and everything I've watched so far has looked nothing short of spectacular assuming good source material. We know the lens HAS to be a big differentiator due to the difference in price with it's big brother, so it will be interesting to see other's findings (especially those who have seen/worked with the 1000es)
Verbow is offline  
post #815 of 3652 Old 12-13-2013, 06:24 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
AV Science Sales 5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: A beautiful view of a lake
Posts: 7,742
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 373 Post(s)
Liked: 418
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Realistically speaking (e.g. taking the arc of bulb-aging into account) how wide a 2:35:1 image can you get away with using the ST100 material and the Sony VW1000 (or 500?). For instance getting between 12 and 16 fL?

Depends on how long a lamp life you want. So people are real concerned with lamp life and others think buying a lamp after 500 to 700 hours is not a problem.

Mike Garrett, AV Science Sales Call Me: 585-671-2968
Email Me:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Brands we sell: 
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
 
Call for B-stock projectors
Stewart, Seymour, SE, SI, Falcon & many more.
RBH, Martin Logan, Triad, Atlantic Technology, MK Sound, BG Radia, SVS & Def Tech.
AV Science Sales 5 is online now  
post #816 of 3652 Old 12-13-2013, 06:26 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
mark haflich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: brookeville, maryland, usa
Posts: 19,946
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 446 Post(s)
Liked: 489
Rich. Every screen I know except for Da-lite High Power is angular reflective. Firehawk G3 is a gray screen with a high gain sprayed on mist. All sprayed on gain coatings are mists and very very little is applied to the screen material. Firehawk G4 had a sprayed on coating the reflects most of the light to screen center and had a tight half gain viewing cone. Firehawk G4 hs a sprayed on gain coating of about 1.5. and has a much broader viwing cone. One again the gain willl decrease as one moves from center but should stay uniform as one looks accross thescreen from any position off of center. If you viewed Firehawk G3 where the projector was set at a throw of less than 1.6 screen widths, it will hot spot badly.

Mark Haflich

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

call me at: 240 876 2536
mark haflich is online now  
post #817 of 3652 Old 12-13-2013, 10:28 PM
AVS Special Member
 
lovingdvd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,907
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canary_Jules View Post

Thanks for your feedback. I've contacted Prime UK and they say that they've had another instance of this which they declared DOA and replaced. They're doing the same for me. It's a pain to have the issue but kudos to Sony to sort it out so quickly.

Glad to hear it. Does anyone know if Sony in the US offers their advanced replacement policy for the 600? Is it still 90 days and advanced exchange? Thanks.
lovingdvd is offline  
post #818 of 3652 Old 12-14-2013, 04:01 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
mark haflich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: brookeville, maryland, usa
Posts: 19,946
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 446 Post(s)
Liked: 489
I seem to remember its no longer 90 days. I think its now 30, 45, or 60. I think Mike G told me a while ago and I am sure he will chime in with the correct info.

Mark Haflich

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

call me at: 240 876 2536
mark haflich is online now  
post #819 of 3652 Old 12-14-2013, 07:31 AM
Member
 
charlypittsburgh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 48
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Ok my 600 came in today...viewing distance will be 12 ft....throw distance 15ft....I have total light control. screen will be 115" diag 2.35.1....will do some 3D viewing


probably going to do a fixed screen...Im liking Seymour so far...any recommendations? (not going the AT route )
charlypittsburgh is offline  
post #820 of 3652 Old 12-14-2013, 08:35 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
AV Science Sales 5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: A beautiful view of a lake
Posts: 7,742
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 373 Post(s)
Liked: 418
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Glad to hear it. Does anyone know if Sony in the US offers their advanced replacement policy for the 600? Is it still 90 days and advanced exchange? Thanks.

ES Advanced 60 day replacement is available for the 600. Policy was changed last year from 90 days to 60 days.

Mike Garrett, AV Science Sales Call Me: 585-671-2968
Email Me:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Brands we sell: 
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
 
Call for B-stock projectors
Stewart, Seymour, SE, SI, Falcon & many more.
RBH, Martin Logan, Triad, Atlantic Technology, MK Sound, BG Radia, SVS & Def Tech.
AV Science Sales 5 is online now  
post #821 of 3652 Old 12-14-2013, 08:58 AM
Pip
Senior Member
 
Pip's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 419
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Don't we have a screens forum?

Pip
Pip is offline  
post #822 of 3652 Old 12-14-2013, 09:48 AM
Advanced Member
 
7channelfreak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: North Houston
Posts: 503
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Liked: 56
Santa came early........



Now we just need to finish the room so I can see this bad boy in action again (saw it at Cedia)
7channelfreak is offline  
post #823 of 3652 Old 12-14-2013, 10:27 AM
Member
 
charlypittsburgh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 48
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Ok my 600 came in today...viewing distance will be 12 ft....throw distance 15ft....I have total light control. screen will be 115" diag 2.35.1....will do some 3D viewing


probably going to do a fixed screen...Im liking Seymour so far...any recommendations? (not going the AT route )


I think its related to the 600es...I have yet to see it in action....so I looking for opinions on those that have 600es knowledge specifically
charlypittsburgh is offline  
post #824 of 3652 Old 12-14-2013, 11:15 AM
Senior Member
 
roxiedog13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North 48 °
Posts: 446
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlypittsburgh View Post

Ok my 600 came in today...viewing distance will be 12 ft....throw distance 15ft....I have total light control. screen will be 115" diag 2.35.1....will do some 3D viewing


probably going to do a fixed screen...Im liking Seymour so far...any recommendations? (not going the AT route )

I have a Screen Innovations Solar 4K 1.3 gain ( actual 1.37 gain) and it is just about as good as you will get for a single screen. My screen is 120" diagonal and 2.35:1 like yours. 2D on my setup is fantastic, I could easily go to 150" with 2 D only . 3D is also great on my current screen 2.35:1 zoomed, 16:9 is much brighter again because you will use all the light on the chip and the image smaller on your screen. For really bright 3D ,if that is your preference ,you would probably want more gain but as with all things you could be giving up other characteristics more desirable . The best screen for 2D is usually not ideal for 3D and vice versa . If you want the best of both a two screen setup is probably best. I may add a second
screen but will first try the anamorphic lens for scope in 3D, it may just work for me . Probably not the cheapest or simplest way to go , then again, a second screen can be expensive and complicated too, it all depends on your room and how it is oriented.
charlypittsburgh likes this.
roxiedog13 is offline  
post #825 of 3652 Old 12-14-2013, 11:23 AM
Member
 
charlypittsburgh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 48
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
thanks much!!
charlypittsburgh is offline  
post #826 of 3652 Old 12-14-2013, 03:08 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
AV Science Sales 5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: A beautiful view of a lake
Posts: 7,742
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 373 Post(s)
Liked: 418
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlypittsburgh View Post

thanks much!!

What is your room like? Light control is more than just controlling the light coming into the room.

Mike Garrett, AV Science Sales Call Me: 585-671-2968
Email Me:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Brands we sell: 
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
 
Call for B-stock projectors
Stewart, Seymour, SE, SI, Falcon & many more.
RBH, Martin Logan, Triad, Atlantic Technology, MK Sound, BG Radia, SVS & Def Tech.
AV Science Sales 5 is online now  
post #827 of 3652 Old 12-14-2013, 03:11 PM
Member
 
charlypittsburgh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 48
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Very dark almost black curtains and really dark (espresso) wood...dark ceiling
charlypittsburgh is offline  
post #828 of 3652 Old 12-14-2013, 03:21 PM
Advanced Member
 
jlanzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 881
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post


What is your room like? Light control is more than just controlling the light coming into the room.

 

Anyone entering my HT has to pass my Kodak 18 gray color card, if any clothing is brighter, the HT Nazi boots them out :)

jlanzy is offline  
post #829 of 3652 Old 12-15-2013, 04:59 AM
Senior Member
 
Roland Janus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 348
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post

I have a Screen Innovations Solar 4K 1.3 gain ( actual 1.37 gain) and it is just about as good as you will get for a single screen. My screen is 120" diagonal and 2.35:1 like yours. 2D on my setup is fantastic, I could easily go to 150" with 2 D only . 3D is also great on my current screen 2.35:1 zoomed, 16:9 is much brighter again because you will use all the light on the chip and the image smaller on your screen. For really bright 3D ,if that is your preference ,you would probably want more gain but as with all things you could be giving up other characteristics more desirable . The best screen for 2D is usually not ideal for 3D and vice versa . If you want the best of both a two screen setup is probably best. I may add a second
screen but will first try the anamorphic lens for scope in 3D, it may just work for me . Probably not the cheapest or simplest way to go , then again, a second screen can be expensive and complicated too, it all depends on your room and how it is oriented.

can you share more about the screen?
Whatever comes to mind, the good, the bad (the ugly smile.gif )?

It looks like a good compromise for 2D and 3D.
Anything more about the 1.3 gain on 2D?

-R
Roland Janus is offline  
post #830 of 3652 Old 12-15-2013, 07:08 AM
Senior Member
 
roxiedog13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North 48 °
Posts: 446
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roland Janus View Post

can you share more about the screen?
Whatever comes to mind, the good, the bad (the ugly smile.gif )?

It looks like a good compromise for 2D and 3D.
Anything more about the 1.3 gain on 2D?

-R

My room is 100% light controlled and dark. Probably not bat cave black but very close so to start with I have an ideal situation . My PJ is 13.5 feet from the screen and in line with the top of the screen.

2D on this screen is spectacular, I see no texture while viewing , the screen does not have any visible texture anyway. The viewing cone is really wide, and to be honest for the most part non existent . There is
no hot spotting either a problem with other screens of similar gain. I will check this again today with a camera flash as I have seen others do, but to my eye, I cannot detect any brighter areas in the center at all.
This is one of the reasons I really like this screen, it does not drop off to the sides, so all who are watching from any seated position have the same experience. When I view a 16:9 image CIH on this screen I am
left with 1ft of unused screen on the sides. In my room these side bars are so dark ,that they are almost not even detectable. For the purest I'm sure they would want masking, for me I hardly notice. Comparing
to a Black Diamond 2.7 for light control I was surprised to find my screen will hold its own as long as the light in the room is not directly from above. When that occurs the Solar 4K will totally wash out whereas the BD
will be better,not spectacular, just watchable. If the light is from the center , rear or from a wall sconce the Solar will look as good as the Black Diamond and DnP that I tested. In a dark room the Solar 4K did
not have the pop the BD 2.7 had but the Solar was more than sufficient. Color on the BD was washed out in comparison and shifted off axis, the Solar remained consistent. The pop and brightness of the BD would
defiantly give a better 3D experience and work with the lights on , but for 2D the Solar is hands down a better option.

My previous screens one a Da-lite and second a Grand View were both 1.0 gain, matt white. Hard to make any comparison because my previous PJ and room colors were not Ideal . The experience I have now
is by far much better, especially with 3D and the screen size I have now is much bigger.

I have many, samples of various screen materials on the way , once I have them I will report how they perform. Today I have a sample of Hi-Power 2.4, that will be interesting as I have a angular reflective situation in my HT
and the Hi-Power is made for retro-reflective application. Others have used this similarly with a 1.8 gain net result. I'm more curious to see how that works out to be honest.

If you only intend to have one screen, you have a dark light controlled room and keep the screen size around 34ft sq the Solar 4K is a great alternative .

Manufactured screens are expensive, be sure to consider all the options and get many samples and try in your room . The DIY screens are also a great alternative if you have skills. The Silverfire paint is supposed to
be a great product too but this would also depend on your skill level.
roxiedog13 is offline  
post #831 of 3652 Old 12-15-2013, 09:09 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
R Harkness's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 11,996
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 110 Post(s)
Liked: 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post

There is no hot spotting either a problem with other screens of similar gain. I will check this again today with a camera flash as I have seen others do, but to my eye, I cannot detect any brighter areas in the center at all.

Can we start taking bets as to whether there will be a hot-spot. biggrin.gif

(Not that the Screen Innovations screen you have isn't excellent. But if Stewart Filmscreen at their best can't produce a 1.3 gain white screen without hot-spotting, I'm doubting SI can. And SI's technical info doesn't seem nearly as forthcoming as Stewarts. The SI mostly just claims "wide viewing angle" and mentions in it's white paper "1/2 gain 80." That suggests similar performance to the ST-130, but Stewart provides graphs that show exactly the measured light drop off per degree of viewer position, so you can have an accurate assessment of the viewing cone: http://www.stewartfilmscreen.com/residential/materials/front_projection_screen_materials/studiotek_130_g3/studiotek_130_g3_residential.html).

I love my ST-130 and subjectively the hot-spotting on regular content is subtle enough to go unnoticed. But it's there.

Rich H


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
R Harkness is online now  
post #832 of 3652 Old 12-15-2013, 09:57 AM
AVS Special Member
 
curttard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,329
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Rich. Every screen I know except for Da-lite High Power is angular reflective. Firehawk G3 is a gray screen with a high gain sprayed on mist. All sprayed on gain coatings are mists and very very little is applied to the screen material. Firehawk G4 had a sprayed on coating the reflects most of the light to screen center and had a tight half gain viewing cone. Firehawk G4 hs a sprayed on gain coating of about 1.5. and has a much broader viwing cone. One again the gain willl decrease as one moves from center but should stay uniform as one looks accross thescreen from any position off of center. If you viewed Firehawk G3 where the projector was set at a throw of less than 1.6 screen widths, it will hot spot badly.

This is very easy to check. Sit in the middle (or anywhere else) and have someone at the screen hold up a piece of 1.0 material (like ST100) against the Firehawk (or other gain screen). Depending on where it is, the sample piece will look brighter or darker than the Firehawk to varying degrees, because the Firehawk's gain is not uniform.
curttard is offline  
post #833 of 3652 Old 12-15-2013, 10:58 AM
Advanced Member
 
jlanzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 881
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by VGI View Post


Darn, I overlooked the giants of patagonia as test material again smile.gif

Toe, we actually had the VW95 up until we put up the 600 a few days ago and we know what Star trek and Avatar looked like on the 96 and on these two movies its day and night better on the 600.

Thats all i was saying smile.gif

Craig

 

Ok, VW95 to 600 was day and night for 3D, what was the 2D comparison? 

jlanzy is offline  
post #834 of 3652 Old 12-15-2013, 11:00 AM
Senior Member
 
roxiedog13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North 48 °
Posts: 446
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Can we start taking bets as to whether there will be a hot-spot. biggrin.gif

(Not that the Screen Innovations screen you have isn't excellent. But if Stewart Filmscreen at their best can't produce a 1.3 gain white screen without hot-spotting, I'm doubting SI can. And SI's technical info doesn't seem nearly as forthcoming as Stewarts. The SI mostly just claims "wide viewing angle" and mentions in it's white paper "1/2 gain 80." That suggests similar performance to the ST-130, but Stewart provides graphs that show exactly the measured light drop off per degree of viewer position, so you can have an accurate assessment of the viewing cone: http://www.stewartfilmscreen.com/residential/materials/front_projection_screen_materials/studiotek_130_g3/studiotek_130_g3_residential.html).

I love my ST-130 and subjectively the hot-spotting on regular content is subtle enough to go unnoticed. But it's there.

I tell is how it is, that's the kind of guy I am. I believe you are right and will confirm this when I get a chance later on. If the hot spotting is there, it is so subtle as to be not detectable , by my eye anyway. Other screens I have tested are really bad , and easy to see off center . I have some sample pieces and will try to
verify tonight.
Either way the Solar 4K is a great screen not the perfect 2D reference or best 3D but sits somewhere in the middle giving a respectable all around performance. The ST-130 is the same kind of product and well respected, obviously, and I would recommend this equally based on member comments and reviews. That being said I
believe , knowing what I do mow, that if I were to start over I may have gone with a 1.0 gain reference fixed primary screen and a electric drop down 1.7-2.7 gain secondary screen for 3D only. For 2D only I would be more than happy with the Solar 4K . I may change my opinion when I install the A lens.....we'll see .
roxiedog13 is offline  
post #835 of 3652 Old 12-15-2013, 11:38 AM
VGI
Advanced Member
 
VGI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Central NJ
Posts: 538
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlanzy View Post

Ok, VW95 to 600 was day and night for 3D, what was the 2D comparison? 

DAY AND NIGHT as well !!

The 600ES is wonderful. We installed 10 of them over the last few days and everyone we installed them for is super happy. Most of them are coming out of VW60/VW95/VW200... Two people came off of JVC..

Bottom line is this projector is turning out to be a serious winner for Sony.

Thanks
Craig
VGI is offline  
post #836 of 3652 Old 12-15-2013, 11:40 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
AV Science Sales 5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: A beautiful view of a lake
Posts: 7,742
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 373 Post(s)
Liked: 418
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlanzy View Post

Anyone entering my HT has to pass my Kodak 18 gray color card, if any clothing is brighter, the HT Nazi boots them out smile.gif

If you were serious about maintaining contrast like I am, then you would furnish all viewers one of these customs.
urskog likes this.

Mike Garrett, AV Science Sales Call Me: 585-671-2968
Email Me:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Brands we sell: 
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
 
Call for B-stock projectors
Stewart, Seymour, SE, SI, Falcon & many more.
RBH, Martin Logan, Triad, Atlantic Technology, MK Sound, BG Radia, SVS & Def Tech.
AV Science Sales 5 is online now  
post #837 of 3652 Old 12-15-2013, 11:45 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
AV Science Sales 5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: A beautiful view of a lake
Posts: 7,742
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 373 Post(s)
Liked: 418
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlypittsburgh View Post

Ok my 600 came in today...viewing distance will be 12 ft....throw distance 15ft....I have total light control. screen will be 115" diag 2.35.1....will do some 3D viewing


probably going to do a fixed screen...Im liking Seymour so far...any recommendations? (not going the AT route )

Since you are wanting to do 3D viewing, I would go with a 1.3 gain screen. That would be a good compromise between 2D and 3D at that size and throw. If you would like to discuss options, give us a call.

Mike Garrett, AV Science Sales Call Me: 585-671-2968
Email Me:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Brands we sell: 
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
 
Call for B-stock projectors
Stewart, Seymour, SE, SI, Falcon & many more.
RBH, Martin Logan, Triad, Atlantic Technology, MK Sound, BG Radia, SVS & Def Tech.
AV Science Sales 5 is online now  
post #838 of 3652 Old 12-15-2013, 12:23 PM
Advanced Member
 
jlanzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 881
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by VGI View Post


DAY AND NIGHT as well !!

The 600ES is wonderful. We installed 10 of them over the last few days and everyone we installed them for is super happy. Most of them are coming out of VW60/VW95/VW200... Two people came off of JVC..

Bottom line is this projector is turning out to be a serious winner for Sony.

Thanks
Craig


You know you are making it very difficult holding out until hdmi 2.0 is fully implemented and 4K bluray and players are available. :)   

jlanzy is offline  
post #839 of 3652 Old 12-15-2013, 12:29 PM
Senior Member
 
Roland Janus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 348
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post



Manufactured screens are expensive, be sure to consider all the options and get many samples and try in your room . The DIY screens are also a great alternative if you have skills. The Silverfire paint is supposed to
be a great product too but this would also depend on your skill level.

Thanks a lot. That gives me an idea.
I have to use a motorized screen from the ceiling, about 118" diagonal. I'm looking for an alternative used for 2D and 3D. The bit of a higher gain will help 3D
My room is pretty much light controlled, but currently still have a white ceiling (I'm looking into that).

Although Stewart Screens also look fine the prices are just way over the top, at least over here. Could be as much as the pj itself and I'm not willing to have pay for a screen what I've paid for the Sony. It is a screen...

-Roland
Roland Janus is offline  
post #840 of 3652 Old 12-15-2013, 01:09 PM
Member
 
hwoarang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Hollywood Hills, Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 77
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Save for price, I couldnt find a good enough reason to wait. It's has full 4k, hdmi 2.0, an amazing lens, one of the best pictures ever, is extremely bright, zooms for anamorphic, and comes with a 4k server.

I can't imagine how much better the picture is going to get. The extra bandwidth from 10-18GBPS is apparently for network functionality as it has enough bandwidth for a full 4k picture. I imagine the projectors will get cheaper, smaller and more feature rich, but this projector really seemed like a milestone to me and had all the features to future proof it. Anyone else feel the same? I mean, we have a home theater projector that is better than most cinemas no? I live a few blocks away from Manns Chinese theater which was recently renovated. Aside from that, the DGA and the Arclight, I couldn't imagine a better picture. The screen was my biggest challenge. The projector was a no brainer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlanzy View Post


You know you are making it very difficult holding out until hdmi 2.0 is fully implemented and 4K bluray and players are available. smile.gif    
hwoarang is offline  
Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

Tags
Sony Vpl Vw500es , Sony Vpl Vw1000es Projector , Sony Fmp X1 4k Ultra Hd Media Player
Gear in this thread

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off