Official Sony VPL-VW500ES / VW600ES 4K Projector Thread - Page 37 - AVS Forum
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post #1081 of 3941 Old 12-23-2013, 04:01 PM
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How do I quantify the effect of throw distance on screen brightness,other than the effect of spreading the available lumens over the area of the screen? In other words, how does lumens output vary with zoom setting?
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post #1082 of 3941 Old 12-23-2013, 04:30 PM
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How do I quantify the effect of throw distance on screen brightness,other than the effect of spreading the available lumens over the area of the screen? In other words, how does lumens output vary with zoom setting?

In general, the closer the projector to the screen, the brighter the image ( but lower contrast ). At the far end of the projector mounting distance, not as bright, but better contrast and perhaps better uniformity.

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post #1083 of 3941 Old 12-23-2013, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Roland Janus View Post

Guys, do the pixels on the left and right side of the focus screen look the same, like just dots?

On mine it doesn't. While the right side is pretty sharp, the left side (and maybe also the middle but I can't say as there aren't dots) is like blurry and I can't get it on focus at all.
I'm not sure that is actually visible in a real picture, but of course it bothers me.

I'm pretty sure the pj is parallel and moving the screen on the left side doesn't change anything.

hwoarang?
I saw your screenshots, tried to do pictures but that isn't working that close up.

Guys, really no comment whatsoever?
As an owner it should be rather easy to comment on that, shouldn't it?
Please?
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post #1084 of 3941 Old 12-23-2013, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by SOWK View Post

Mike its so nice you gave Zombie your 600ES to "keep" that's a nice Christmas gift... biggrin.gif

Don't you wish you were on my nice list. biggrin.gif

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post #1085 of 3941 Old 12-23-2013, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

definitely not hand picked, but it's still nice to know you have a really good sample here. cool.gif

I have to see what other movies on are the 4K server to check out. Some of the 3-4 minute demos look amazing.

We have to set you up with a Sony account so I can log in as you on the puck and download all the free content. I am not sure if this would transfer between different Sony accounts logged into the same device.

That is why I sent you my info. Let me know if you need anything else.

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post #1086 of 3941 Old 12-23-2013, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

The Center Stage XD looks very appealing. Thanks. As for seating I'm planning on two rows of three. I'm considering leaving the exact locations flexible until I start measuring sound, with the thought that maybe I'd require a third sub woofer in the back of the room. The room is 24' deep so I'll have around 20' screen to back wall.

11' is what I consider the minimum viewing distance for Center Stage XD. I used Center Stage for a couple years before going to EN4K.

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post #1087 of 3941 Old 12-23-2013, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Roland Janus View Post

Guys, really no comment whatsoever?
As an owner it should be rather easy to comment on that, shouldn't it?
Please?

If you reduce the size of the image so that it is slightly smaller than your screen, are all four sides of the image parallel with the screen frame? If not, then your projector is not set up properly and that will cause focus issues.

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post #1088 of 3941 Old 12-23-2013, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

11' is what I consider the minimum viewing distance for Center Stage XD. I used Center Stage for a couple years before going to EN4K.

How are you liking the EN4K? Are you using the backing? I'll install mine in a couple of weeks.
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post #1089 of 3941 Old 12-23-2013, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

Beside I have been working on other things. Have my masking system in place and working well now and I just got my five amps set up so that they are sequenced for turn on and turn off, so no thumps. smile.gif

Hi. Mike......what type of masking system did you put together?
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post #1090 of 3941 Old 12-23-2013, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

If you reduce the size of the image so that it is slightly smaller than your screen, are all four sides of the image parallel with the screen frame? If not, then your projector is not set up properly and that will cause focus issues.

not properly setup by me you mean?
Not sure what I can do different, as it is not at the limit of anything. Not using any of the shifts extensively and it is quite a bit below the top of the screen.

I try and see if that makes a difference.

thanks
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post #1091 of 3941 Old 12-23-2013, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Roland Janus View Post

not properly setup by me you mean?
Not sure what I can do different, as it is not at the limit of anything. Not using any of the shifts extensively and it is quite a bit below the top of the screen.

I try and see if that makes a difference.

thanks

What I mean. Reduce the size of the image slightly smaller (1/2") than the screen. Now look and see if the top of the image runs parallel to the screen. Same goes for the sides and bottom. If not parallel, then you have a trapezoid shaped image. That means the projector is not line up properly with the screen. This can be due to how you have the projector set up or it can be due to the screen, not being in a perfect plane.

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post #1092 of 3941 Old 12-23-2013, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by 7channelfreak View Post

How are you liking the EN4K? Are you using the backing? I'll install mine in a couple of weeks.

No backing. I have everything flat black behind my screen. I really like the image this screen provides. I view from about 10'. Looking forward to the added brightness of the 600.

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post #1093 of 3941 Old 12-23-2013, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by piratemonkey View Post

Hi. Mike......what type of masking system did you put together?

I have a Prismasonic masking system on my curved screen: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1505211/prismasonic-masking-system

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post #1094 of 3941 Old 12-24-2013, 03:10 AM
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Are there any HTPC + VW500/600 out here? If so, I need to know if someone is using a dedicated AMD GPU like the HD7950 or HD7970 AND owns an ACTIVE DISPLAY PORT 1.2 to HDMI adapter.

If so, could this person test something for me:

Connect the DP(or miniDP)output with the active (mini)DP=>HDMI adapter directly (so without a AVR) to the VW500/600. Next, in the AMD control panel go to desktop resolution settings and see if you can choose 3840x2160@60 there (it is in the BASIC list I think). If you can choose it select it and click on apply. See if you get a picture (desktop shown). If so, go to the VW500/600 menu and check the INFO panel. Look there and see if there is something like 3040x2160@60 listed.

If this all works, I have good news. But test this first and report back here (I cannot test it myself because I have the VW1000 and this has no HDMI 2.0 input yet/not yet upgraded to VW1100). Please don t ask any further questions yet about the HD7950/7970 etc not beeing HDMI 2.0. I know the card is not HDMI 2.0 smile.gif
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post #1095 of 3941 Old 12-24-2013, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by sanderdvd View Post

Are there any HTPC + VW500/600 out here? If so, I need to know if someone is using a dedicated AMD GPU like the HD7950 or HD7970 AND owns an ACTIVE DISPLAY PORT 1.2 to HDMI adapter.

If so, could this person test something for me:

Connect the DP(or miniDP)output with the active (mini)DP=>HDMI adapter directly (so without a AVR) to the VW500/600. Next, in the AMD control panel go to desktop resolution settings and see if you can choose 3840x2160@60 there (it is in the BASIC list I think). If you can choose it select it and click on apply. See if you get a picture (desktop shown). If so, go to the VW500/600 menu and check the INFO panel. Look there and see if there is something like 3040x2160@60 listed.

If this all works, I have good news. But test this first and report back here (I cannot test it myself because I have the VW1000 and this has no HDMI 2.0 input yet/not yet upgraded to VW1100). Please don t ask any further questions yet about the HD7950/7970 etc not beeing HDMI 2.0. I know the card is not HDMI 2.0 smile.gif

Where can i buy one of these adaptors that will allow 3840x2160 at 60 fps?? have a link? I will buy one and try
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post #1096 of 3941 Old 12-24-2013, 06:52 AM
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post #1097 of 3941 Old 12-24-2013, 03:33 PM
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Ok, well this is interesting. Some of you might know that I have x2 VW500ES' at the moment. The second one is a replacement for my original which had quite bad ootb panel convergence. The second one has much better convergence but is slightly less focussed. Aside from that it has less cross talk in 3d. I have been debating as to which one to send back. Seems like the decision has been made for me though... I just fired them both up to do some more comparisons and the original one has failed with both the ON/STANDBY and WARNING lights flashing x3 simultaneously. The manual says that this is a fan failure and has to be returned to Sony for repair. It only had 90 hours on it. Do I have a world first?
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post #1098 of 3941 Old 12-24-2013, 03:41 PM
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it may be a long shot but can you try pulling and re-seating the lamp?
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post #1099 of 3941 Old 12-24-2013, 03:44 PM
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Just did that as it happens and it's working again. Weirdest thing ever though is that the firmware has reverted to 1.001! It was 1.005 before - as is the second machine.
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post #1100 of 3941 Old 12-24-2013, 03:50 PM
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I don't think when you log into the Sony server it is dependent on the specific user account needed at set up.. Multiple accounts can be used I think. Multiple servers can be activated on one display and from one tablet. That is confirmed by me. The tablet then asks you what server you want to control.

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post #1101 of 3941 Old 12-24-2013, 04:34 PM
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So what if I bought a movie logged into my account, then logged in as Mike, do you think the movie would still be available on the device after switching accounts?

I could see the account / movie purchases following you to different devices, but the swapping of the user accounts seems like it would be equivalent to itunes, ie. each user has their own unique purchases.
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post #1102 of 3941 Old 12-24-2013, 05:01 PM
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The movie is down loaded onto the server. The server doesn't care who paid for the movie. The account holder logs in by a PIN but an account only requires payment to purchase or rent a piece of content and then it takes money from a wallet that can be filled by any credit card I think. On the two servers and panels I am setting up, I have not purchased any content. Just using the free stuff. The account I set up is fictional. I think I did use the zip code for the real location of the server but the server can move and may be logged in with the zip its moved too. I really don't know.

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post #1103 of 3941 Old 12-24-2013, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canary_Jules View Post

Just did that as it happens and it's working again. Weirdest thing ever though is that the firmware has reverted to 1.001! It was 1.005 before - as is the second machine.

have you been spot checking the greyscale from 0 hours to the current 90 hours? This 600 is ~ 50 hours and it definitely changed from out of the box which was near perfect.
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post #1104 of 3941 Old 12-24-2013, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

What I mean. Reduce the size of the image slightly smaller (1/2") than the screen. Now look and see if the top of the image runs parallel to the screen. Same goes for the sides and bottom. If not parallel, then you have a trapezoid shaped image. That means the projector is not line up properly with the screen. This can be due to how you have the projector set up or it can be due to the screen, not being in a perfect plane.

If the screen consists of more than one plane, one of the edges of the picture will be curved.

if the top and bottom edges are not equal in length the projector is not properly aligned, tilt wise. The lens needs to be aligned perfectly parallel to the screen plane. Up down ans left right. left right is adjusted by rotating the projector around its center point.

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post #1105 of 3941 Old 12-24-2013, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

If the screen consists of more than one plane, one of the edges of the picture will be curved.

if the top and bottom edges are not equal in length the projector is not properly aligned, tilt wise. The lens needs to be aligned perfectly parallel to the screen plane. Up down ans left right. left right is adjusted by rotating the projector around its center point.

I don't think it is curved as far as I can tell, but I didn't do the zoom test yet.
Although I don't think this is it. If it isn't something must be wrong.
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post #1106 of 3941 Old 12-24-2013, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

The movie is down loaded onto the server. The server doesn't care who paid for the movie. The account holder logs in by a PIN but an account only requires payment to purchase or rent a piece of content and then it takes money from a wallet that can be filled by any credit card I think. On the two servers and panels I am setting up, I have not purchased any content. Just using the free stuff. The account I set up is fictional. I think I did use the zip code for the real location of the server but the server can move and may be logged in with the zip its moved too. I really don't know.

Hmmmm, I wonder if that server moved to the state of Canada would it still work ? tongue.gif With the correct pin and Postal Code..... aaahemm... I mean Zip code, why wouldn't it work ? wink.gif
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post #1107 of 3941 Old 12-24-2013, 08:03 PM
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They block you via IP address. They can tell within a few miles where you're located by your IP address. There's no way around around it unless you use a VPN or US based proxy server.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
My Crazy Projector Journey
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post #1108 of 3941 Old 12-24-2013, 10:43 PM
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Guys

I spoke with Joaquin at Stewart Filmscreen this past friday about Firehawk Vs Studiotek when using the VW600ES. He has been with Stewart for 15 years and I trust his judgement as he has always lead me down the right path. He felt the exact way I do that Firehawk is superb for environments that have some possible light and that the Black levels will remain great with little or no washout. For the person with a Pitch Black room and no chance of light at all then the use of Studio 100 or 130 is fine. We have never used 100 but with the added brightness of the 600 and if the screen size warrants it, the 100 can be a great option for people in pitch black rooms that dont need a 1.3 gain.

In talking with customers over the last few weeks who are having VW600s installed, we found a few things important to know. They all want larger screens and now with the added light of the 600, they have the ability to go bigger. The days of 100" screens is over. We have customers ordering 135s and 150s and even bigger. They all want 2.35:1 and when asked almost every one wants the ability to have some light on in the room when watching. One customer said to me that when they have football events with a bunch of guys drinking beer, he said to me do you really think I want it pitch black during football? I laughed and said why ? He said half the beer will end up on the floor and people trying to go to the bathroom or kitchen in the pitch black is not an option. He said they will hurt themselves. I totally agree with this.

We see more and more people building rooms that are multi function. Yes of course some Man Cave rooms can be pitch black because usually its a 1 or 2 person residence with little or no visitors. In the world we experience regularly its larger families entertaining and watching movies and quite a bit of TV.

The new Firehawk G4 has a slightly tamed gain from the Firehawk G3 as Stewart felt with the new Projectors having so much more light that this was an opportunity for them to make the screen better overall. The Firehawk G4 allows for more off axis viewing and overall they claim an even better image that Firehawk G3.

In the coming weeks we will be taking a large piece of G4 and overlaying it over half of our G3 to hopefully show the difference between them. We hope to also show the G4 VS Studiotek 130 with and without light in the room.

I don't want to take this thread off the VW600 as its our by far favorite projector we have ever hung overall and the people with them so far are raving of the overall picture. I would love to see more mini reviews of the installed base on here so please post more pics of your 600 installs.

Thanks
Craig
Theatermax LLC NJ
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post #1109 of 3941 Old 12-24-2013, 11:02 PM
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These folks with the large, low gain screens must not be fans of 3D. The 600 can certainly light up those size screens in 2D, but I would not consider this a light cannon in 3D.

The drop in light output in 3D is substantial compared to it's 2D capabilities. This is before the shutter glasses are activated, further robbing a good deal of light.

For those considering 2D and 3D, you have to take into consideration the screen size and gain if you want 3D to appear reasonable bright through the glasses. It looks 'just right' for my preferences, centered on a 2.8 gain HP screen which is 142" 16:9. It definitely would not be bright enough for me with a 1.0 or 1.3 material this size.
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post #1110 of 3941 Old 12-24-2013, 11:54 PM
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Nor the Firehawk G4 which only has a gain of 1.1 compared to the 1.26 of the Firehawk G3. One must remember that as one goes from short throw to long throw, the light out of the Sonys will be cut by 30 to 35% or so. With large screens short throws are imperative. Fire hawk G4 requires a minimum throw of 1.5 times the effective 1.78 screen size which is the 2.35 screen size if zooming. 1.5 is not close throw on the 600 though it is closer to short throw than long throw. The problem that many customers and some dealers don't understand is that the light fall off from a projector's shortest throw as one moves towards long throw. is not linear but is a log curve (steep fall off as one starts to move away from closest throw and close to leveling off at mid throw).

Likewise the bulb will likely lose about 30% brightness within hundreds of hours. We don't of course have data on the bulb diming on the 600. Firehawk, all of them, will have sparling issues as well although many won't be bothered by them others will. Firehawk G4 is a great solution for rooms that have some ambient light or reflective room boundaries but is not appropriate for use with short throws or large screen applications with most projectors. A better choice which can be ordered by a knowledgeable Stewart dealer is Firehawk LS which is very similar to Firehawk G3 in screen characteristics except for having a narrower half gain angle but not composition. Firehawk LS can be ordered for those big screens. Its gain is about 1.25 but it still has a long minimum throw requirement. There is no free lunch with trying to use a projector in a bad room. Compromises abound and one should be made aware by the dealer of the trade offs and problems with any screen fabric. Beware of salesman that are not experts and most are not. Ask a Stewart dealer if he/she has taken the multi day training course at Stewart or if not, appropriate Cedia course that include in depth training on screen material and size selection. Many sales people will lie of course Beware once again. But if you ask a few guestions that you know the answers to you can quickly detect a BSer. And beware of factory sales people as well. They will never recommend someone else's material over their own. And I am not targeting Stewart here or others posting here at all.
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Mark Haflich
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Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

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