Official Sony VPL-VW500ES / VW600ES 4K Projector Thread - Page 64 - AVS Forum
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post #1891 of 4247 Old 02-03-2014, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

It may have been Fox. It did not look as good as it should have. using our cable box. I viewed it on a DPI Cine 1000 LED and it looked like crap. I also viewed it on my VW600ES using the tuner in my HTPC and it did not look great. It looked better than the DPI, but still not great. I also viewed it on a JVC using the cable box. It was bad enough, that considered just watching it on TV. frown.gif Since I had already turned off the Sony, we watched it on the JVC.
Indeed! I have seen much better quality football (and other things) from the same Fox channel on Dish with the same setup before this. The Hopper is a recent addition, though. I don't recall whether Dish changes 720p stuff to 1080i before they up/downlink it but there is no setting on the Hopper to let it "pass native through" - so even if it comes down as 720p, the Hopper only asks what kind of TV you have , not how you want the signal to leave the Hopper - ergo it gets scaled somewhere between leaving a 720p provider (I was watching KTVU-SF and they are 720p OTA) and emerging from the Hopper as 1080i I need to go check out other reports on this aspect of the Hopper - hadn't noticed anything this bad before...
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post #1892 of 4247 Old 02-03-2014, 06:42 PM
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I doubt it's the Hopper - lots of stuff ( on NBC ) looks fine on ours. I'll bet the Winter Olympics will look fine too ( because it's on NBC ).

Fox better get their act together for the re-boot of 24, or I'm sending Jack Bauer after them !!

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post #1893 of 4247 Old 02-03-2014, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

There are tons of video processing features out there at your disposal to reduce noise. I don't have the Sony but I would be surprised if if didn't have at least a simple noise reduction feature. There are plenty of newer movies, typically those shot digitally, that are crystal clear, but like I said on older films if you're reducing "noise" within the image you are taking away inherent resolution that's within the source. You can see this quite a bit when comparing blu-ray sources from different production houses. As an example there are several versions of The Fifth Element out on blu-ray and it's typically thought that the US blu-ray has the most resolution because it retains the most amount of the films natural grain. The other encodes from Japan, Nordic, ect look cleaner but do lose a bit of detail within the image because they put the master source through a filtering process. The same thing is happening within your 600ES. With these noise reduction filters applied you're almost always doing detrimental damage to your source, especially if you're watching blu-ray. Most people prefer to leave noise filters off so they don't lose resolution on such movies/content.

What I find interesting is that if it's reducing noise, maybe that's why people are claiming better (or less aggressive) RC enhancement. From what I saw on the HW50ES, RC worked great on clean material but on material with film grain it looked awful and gave the image an overcooked appearance. Maybe Sony decided to enable an undefeatable noise filter to give better, more natural looking, RC on the 600ES.

Thanks for that info. I completely agree with you. All new movies look a lot better. Watching Oblivion on 600ES, I turned RC all the way up to 100 and no noise reduction and even then there was no image noise. In fact, I noticed something very interesting. Before I had RC to 50 with noise reduction to 20 and when ever camera focused on character face, I could see that a part of cheek was more like flat (too smooth and didn't look real skin). But, when I turned RC to 100 and no noise reduction, every focus looked a lot better. In fact, every think looks stunning and no image noise and now I can see the pop others have mentioned. I'm sure that 100 is very aggressive and older movies might cause issues with it. In that case, I will reduce it but for newer movies (Oblivion / LOTR), I"ll go for max.
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post #1894 of 4247 Old 02-03-2014, 07:08 PM
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I watched on the 600 via Direct TV and thrown onto a cheap, rented Dalite screen... This picture was amazing. The game, not so much.
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post #1895 of 4247 Old 02-03-2014, 07:23 PM
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For TV, using TV, RC on with resolution 40, noise filter 20; iris limited, brightness 90, CE off, lamp low,  motion flow combination, contrast 78, color d65, sharpness 10, NR off, MPEG off, smooth gradation low, gamma 2.4.  The bulb is just at 19 hours so have not had age related reduction in lumens.

 

Very happy with the projector / screen combo - thanks Craig (VGI) for recommendation.

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post #1896 of 4247 Old 02-03-2014, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d.j. View Post

Sure, you can ordrer the remote from the VPL-HW10 ( remote : RM-PJAW15 ) , it has the Pic Mute button.


dj

Thank you, will make a note of this.
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post #1897 of 4247 Old 02-03-2014, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlsound View Post

For TV, using TV, RC on with resolution 40, noise filter 20; iris limited, brightness 90, CE off, lamp low,  motion flow combination, contrast 78, color d65, sharpness 10, NR off, MPEG off, smooth gradation low, gamma 2.4.  The bulb is just at 19 hours so have not had age related reduction in lumens.

Very happy with the projector / screen combo - thanks Craig (VGI) for recommendation.

Try gamma 2.2 instead.

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post #1898 of 4247 Old 02-04-2014, 06:44 AM
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Hello,

I have been playing with my new 4K upscale Oppo 105D to my Sony VW500.

But with Oppo upscaling to 4K, I have black clipping (I do not see the below black bar with the DVE bluray disc pattern).

To see the below black bar, I have to change the HDMI dynamic range in the Sony to "Full".

With this setting, the brightness control has to be set at 33, and the Contrast setting is very difficult to set. ... I'm not comfortable with it ... does not seem right.

With Oppo set to 1080p and Sony VW500 upscaling to 4K I dont have this problem....I see the below black bar with normal settings (brightness at 46-50 range and contrast at 90-100 range)

Any users use this configuration ?

Thank you for your help.

Nuno
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post #1899 of 4247 Old 02-04-2014, 01:04 PM
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Got my A-lens plate built so that I can convert my VW600ES from shelf mounted to ceiling mounted. Using a Chief RPMA020 with a custom A-lens mounting plate I built. The plate is 3/8" think aluminum with some 2" channel fastened to the plate to raise the lens up enough to match up with the projector lens. The slide is mounted on channels, so that it can be adjusted in and out from the projector. Rock solid and happy with the results. Just need a 4K Lumagen once 4K BD's are available. smile.gif




Note the sound panels are dark gray. My black walls and lack of camera skills make them look almost white. smile.gif
I have a little ceiling touch up to do, where I took down an old ceiling mount that went to my son's gaming projector.

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post #1900 of 4247 Old 02-04-2014, 01:35 PM
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Don't know why this made me think of modern day politics but it just did. Here is my political quotes from your statement to feed the masses:

Reports are coming in that the new Sony 600ES looks like crap and that the new JVC projectors are better prompting owners to turn off their Sonys and use the JVC projectors instead. AVS forum salesman AV Science Sales 5 had this to say about the Sony 600 ES during the Super Bowl:
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

.......It did not look as good as it should have...... looked like crap.............I also viewed it on a JVC....... turned off the Sony, we watched it on the JVC.

Eat your heart out Fox and MSNBC!!! smile.gif

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Click Here To See My Current Setup
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post #1901 of 4247 Old 02-04-2014, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

Got my A-lens plate built so that I can convert my VW600ES from shelf mounted to ceiling mounted. Using a Chief RPMA020 with a custom A-lens mounting plate I built. The plate is 3/8" think aluminum with some 2" channel fastened to the plate to raise the lens up enough to match up with the projector lens. The slide is mounted on channels, so that it can be adjusted in and out from the projector. Rock solid and happy with the results. Just need a 4K Lumagen once 4K BD's are available. smile.gif
.

That looks like a Panamorph lens. As I mentioned before, I'd wondered if my Panamorph UH480 would work easily with the Sony. Were there any particular issues (in terms of the lens/chassis design of the Sony 600ES) that would make
the lens harder to set up vs a JVC?

Thanks.
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post #1902 of 4247 Old 02-04-2014, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Got my A-lens plate built so that I can convert my VW600ES from shelf mounted to ceiling mounted. Using a Chief RPMA020 with a custom A-lens mounting plate I built. The plate is 3/8" think aluminum with some 2" channel fastened to the plate to raise the lens up enough to match up with the projector lens. The slide is mounted on channels, so that it can be adjusted in and out from the projector. Rock solid and happy with the results. Just need a 4K Lumagen once 4K BD's are available. smile.gif
Quote:
That looks like a Panamorph lens. As I mentioned before, I'd wondered if my Panamorph UH480 would work easily with the Sony. Were there any particular issues (in terms of the lens/chassis design of the Sony 600ES) that would make
the lens harder to set up vs a JVC?

Thanks.

Perfect timing for the posts. I was listening to this here and a few questions came to my mind
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1515263/aspect-ratios-and-anamorphic-lenses-with-john-schuermann

I currently don't use A lens. Two points that caught my attention were

1 - A lens will end up giving brigher image (around 20%)
2 - More resolution

Now question is if these points are relative to 600ES. Point 1 is subjective as some projectors increase brighness as they are zoomed out.
Does 600ES do this as well????
Even if it does, we end up using more bulb but then buying a bulb is $650.00 vs an A Lens which is going to be much more expensive.
If it doesn't then people can argue that this projector puts out enough brigh image that loosing that brightness is no big deal. I don't konw if it does or not but I use 145" with .98 gain and want to know if it would effect me noticably enought?

Coming to point 2, considering we watch UHD, we already are watching with a lot more pixels. So even if we zoom out and loose pixels that are used to project grey bars (top/bottom), would that make a noticable difference if these pixels were used to project image as compared to projecting grey bars?
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post #1903 of 4247 Old 02-04-2014, 02:23 PM
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I think an A-Lens with a 4K projector or E-shift Projector is just silly. But that's just me.

Everyone has their own opinion.
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post #1904 of 4247 Old 02-04-2014, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post

I think an A-Lens with a 4K projector or E-shift Projector is just silly. But that's just me.

Everyone has their own opinion.

Some of us have shorter throw distances to contend with. I use an A-lens to allow for a larger/wider 2:35:1 image than I could get just zooming. The Sony has smaller zoom ration than my JVC, so I'd lose even more size
if I didn't employ my A-lens.
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post #1905 of 4247 Old 02-04-2014, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post

I think an A-Lens with a 4K projector or E-shift Projector is just silly. But that's just me.

Everyone has their own opinion.

Can you please share why do you think this way?
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post #1906 of 4247 Old 02-04-2014, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post

Can you please share why do you think this way?

Cost
One more focal element
Extra cromatic aberration
Loss of ANSI contrast
Extra complexity of removing A-Lens from light path when not needed
More complex scaling of the image. Needs electronic vertical scaling then optical stretching horizontally.
Pin cushioning

Positives with a 4K unit?

More light output...

Negatives far out weight positives.
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post #1907 of 4247 Old 02-04-2014, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post

1. Cost
2. One more focal element
3. Extra cromatic aberration
4. Loss of ANSI contrast
5. Extra complexity of removing A-Lens from light path when not needed
6. More complex scaling of the image. Needs electronic vertical scaling then optical stretching horizontally.
7. Pin cushioning

Positives with a 4K unit?

More light output...

Negatives far out weight positives.

1. I have had one for several projectors so no additional cost
2. Which translate to what that is visible?
3. Can be fixed
4. Why
5. I already had the motorized lens to begin with and the mounting plate
6. Nonsense. Every high end PJ has a vertical stretch -- pushing one button on the remote addresses this
7. Minimal to say the least and certainly not visible on anything other than a bunch of horizontal lines

All that said, if I did not already own the lens and motorized sled and if the screen were not so big as to suck all of the brightness out of the PJ, I would probably NOT spend the extra $7000 (or whatever it costs) to buy them without living with the projector for a while to see if I wanted to spend the $.

But, given I already own the hardware, the improvement is obvious and ease of use is high.

PS. As you can see, I "borrowed" your idea of the read blankets


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post #1908 of 4247 Old 02-04-2014, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post

Cost
One more focal element
Extra cromatic aberration
Loss of ANSI contrast
Extra complexity of removing A-Lens from light path when not needed
More complex scaling of the image. Needs electronic vertical scaling then optical stretching horizontally.
Pin cushioning

Positives with a 4K unit?

More light output...

Negatives far out weight positives.



+ the pixels loss to the Black bars, when zooming, isnt a problem, when you have 2160 for start, instead off 1080.


dj
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post #1909 of 4247 Old 02-04-2014, 04:35 PM
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1. I have had one for several projectors so no additional cost
It was still a cost to you when you bought, if you sold it, it would provide you with a substantial refund torwards something else.
2. Which translate to what that is visible?
I went to someone's house who didn't even relies the focus was only focused in the center and not the edges, he was shocked to find out his setup was not correct to begin with.
3. Can be fixed
Not 100%, there will always be some.
4. Why
Extra element to go through, if you took the time to measure properly it is a small but measurable difference.
5. I already had the motorized lens to begin with and the mounting plate
Again, cost, and not everyone that get an anamorphic lens does this.
6. Nonsense. Every high end PJ has a vertical stretch -- pushing one button on the remote addresses this
Not all scalers are created equal. Some will soften the image.
7. Minimal to say the least and certainly not visible on anything other than a bunch of horizontal lines
Still there. I'm OCD, and placebo gets the best of me. If I know it's there it will bother me regardless.

Do you have a 4K projector?
A lens make less sense with a 4K unit.

Huge screen like mine and yours, then a lens and a 1080P unit, there are more benifits then just brightness.
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post #1910 of 4247 Old 02-04-2014, 04:38 PM
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He asked my opinion, I gave it.

Like I said it's just an opinion, everyone else's can and some will be different.
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post #1911 of 4247 Old 02-04-2014, 04:40 PM
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I don't like high power screens too (for 2D)... But again that's my opinion.
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post #1912 of 4247 Old 02-04-2014, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post


Do you have a 4K projector?
A lens make less sense with a 4K unit.

Huge screen like mine and yours, then a lens and a 1080P unit, there are more benifits then just brightness.

I have the Sony 600ES and my previous PJ was the JVC RS55.

I only use the rationale of selling something to buy something else (in your example the lens and sled) when I'm trying to sell my wife the idea of buying something else tongue.gif My next upgrade interest (and probably my last) will be a new SSP - one that supports Dirac. Should I need to drum up "suuport" for that transaction, then selling the lens and sled might be an option.

By the way, very nice video. What kind of lights do you have under the theater chairs?

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post #1913 of 4247 Old 02-04-2014, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

Don't know why this made me think of modern day politics but it just did. Here is my political quotes from your statement to feed the masses:

Reports are coming in that the new Sony 600ES looks like crap and that the new JVC projectors are better prompting owners to turn off their Sonys and use the JVC projectors instead. AVS forum salesman AV Science Sales 5 had this to say about the Sony 600 ES during the Super Bowl:


Eat your heart out Fox and MSNBC!!! smile.gif

Actually the Sony looked better, but I was not going to turn the Sony back on since I had already turned it off to go to the family room setup. smile.gif The JVC is an older RS45. smile.gif For the money the RS45 is a great projector.

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post #1914 of 4247 Old 02-04-2014, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

That looks like a Panamorph lens. As I mentioned before, I'd wondered if my Panamorph UH480 would work easily with the Sony. Were there any particular issues (in terms of the lens/chassis design of the Sony 600ES) that would make
the lens harder to set up vs a JVC?

Thanks.

It is a Prismasonic HD6000F. Prismasonic does not make a plate to fit a Chief mount, so I made one.

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post #1915 of 4247 Old 02-04-2014, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Some of us have shorter throw distances to contend with. I use an A-lens to allow for a larger/wider 2:35:1 image than I could get just zooming. The Sony has smaller zoom ration than my JVC, so I'd lose even more size
if I didn't employ my A-lens.

Same here. The projector alone using zoom, can't fill my screen and I can't increase the throw in this room.

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post #1917 of 4247 Old 02-04-2014, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post

Then I can't say you did it for a silly reason. wink.gif

With my JVC not only could I not fill the screen, I also needed the added light from the lens on my low gain 0.85 screen. smile.gif

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post #1918 of 4247 Old 02-04-2014, 08:33 PM
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Based on the inputs here, the only reason I see that anyone bought A lens is to project on a bigger screen that projector itself couldn't zoom out to. So we can safely say that spending this much money to get benefits in picture quality/brightness (if any) is not worth it.

Thanks guys.
SOWK: awesome video. You are showing off 600ES and still no review eek.gif Put the hours on it quickly so that we can be assured of brightness drop is not critical smile.gif
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post #1919 of 4247 Old 02-04-2014, 10:11 PM
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Is there a link for settings discussion? I am interested to know what some of the experts have their settings at smile.gif
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post #1920 of 4247 Old 02-04-2014, 11:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R-o-c View Post

Hello,

Does the Sony FMP-X1 4K Media Player work with the New VPL-500/600 ?
Any HDCP Errors?

What Sony or / Dealer in USA say to HDCP 2.2 ?

Have the VPL-500/600 HDCP 2.2 ?

Greets from Germany /Europe

Just as an FYI - I purchased the VW500ES in canada and use it across the border in the US in Seattle.  I have the FMP-X1 and it works great with the VW500ES.  You have to also buy a Sony Tablet and download the "4k Ultra HD " app from Sony to control the FMP-X1.   It's a bit slower than running it thru my XBR 4k, but no issues at all.

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Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

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Sony Vpl Vw500es , Sony Vpl Vw1000es Projector , Sony Fmp X1 4k Ultra Hd Media Player
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