Official Sony VPL-VW500ES / VW600ES 4K Projector Thread - Page 73 - AVS Forum
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post #2161 of 3508 Old 03-01-2014, 12:32 PM
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Nah. They could replace chips over the internet. Nah. Probably not. It would require a new motherboard and either Sony could have a tech visit you for the install or could require that the projector be sent in for service. Or as b curry states, you will have to buy a new projector.

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post #2162 of 3508 Old 03-01-2014, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BakeApples View Post

This might be hard to answer but let's assume there is a true HDMI 2.0 chip from Sony giving the whole 18.2Gbps bandwidth, how would Sony update the 500ES? Will it require sending the unit to them for the hardware upgrade of the chips?

 

My guess is, Sony will be happy to sell you a new projector.

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post #2163 of 3508 Old 03-01-2014, 05:00 PM
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At the moment I don't quite understand why there is so much fuss about the bandwidth capabilities that either the 600ES or 1100ES has. We don't even know what the requirements for blu-ray 4K will be. We are way too quick to assume the current chip that provides less bandwidth won't be able to handle the data throughput needed for the next gen standard. My guess is that Sony already has a large grasp on what that next generation standard will be as they've always been one of the big companies calling most of the shots when it comes to consumer media distribution channels and standards. With that in mind it wouldn't surprise me at all if both machines already have what it takes for 4K blu-ray. I'm sure Sony knew this when releasing the update for the 1000ES and knew what they were doing when they were designing the I/O of the 600ES. Until there is word that it WON'T be able to handle the next consumer video standard let's stop criticizing Sony for it's decision until we know for a fact that these machines can't handle it. smile.gif
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post #2164 of 3508 Old 03-01-2014, 07:21 PM
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post #2165 of 3508 Old 03-02-2014, 06:48 AM
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I have a Lumagen Radiance Mini3D and was wondering if i can still use all the main features of the Mini3D together with a VW500ES for non 4K sources? More specifically, can i still use the aspect ratio management tools as i can with a 1080p projector?
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post #2166 of 3508 Old 03-02-2014, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by b curry View Post

My guess is, Sony will be happy to sell you a new projector.

Of course they will but, If i decide to get 500ES I do not intend to upgrade the projector within the next 5-7 years, hence my question about future-proofing.
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post #2167 of 3508 Old 03-02-2014, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by BakeApples View Post

Of course they will but, if i decide to get 500ES I do not intend to upgrade the projector within the next 5-7 years, hence my question about future-proofing.

With the VW1000ES, Sony stated they would do something up front and they did so. No such promise for any upgrade has been made with the VW600ES. What Sony did with the 1000 is not done by other manufacturer's and is not expected.

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post #2168 of 3508 Old 03-02-2014, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BakeApples View Post


Of course they will but, If i decide to get 500ES I do not intend to upgrade the projector within the next 5-7 years, hence my question about future-proofing.

 

:)

 

While I have much admiration for Sony offering an upgrade path for the VPL-VW1000es it was done so as to honor a marketing commitment with an agenda to promote the roll out of 4K.  I also think it would be somewhat naive to expect that this action would establish a precedent for future product.

 

The advent of Blu-ray brought HDCP DVI inputs to projectors and eventually HDMI.  I can recall no company including Sony offering any such upgrade for a projector and it was not unusual for a consumer to buy a new project from one year to the next if you wanted to keep up.

 

I really don't believe the phrase "future-proofing" for a video projector exists in the context you're referring to; at least in my lifetime.  If you want to buy the machine and keep it for 5-7 years I'm quite sure you will enjoy hundreds if not one or two thousand hours of viewing enjoyment.  And of course the cost of ownership will be amortized in a more efficient way the longer you own it.  But make no mistake, if you buy it, 5-7 years from now it will still display a great picture but you will own an electronic boat anchor that will have a monetary value equal to a small fraction of what you paid for it new.

 

In my experience regarding digital projectors the only road to "future proof" is a fat bank account.  So, don't spend too much time thinking about it.  Open up your purse, let a few thousand of your Krona's breath and see the sunshine and enjoy your hometheater.  :)

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post #2169 of 3508 Old 03-03-2014, 01:17 AM
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The video quality of Blu Rays differ tremendously on the projector; even where they previously looked great on a flat screen. Off the top of my head, the following look amazing on the 600es using a PS4. Note that I'm on a Firehawk G4 120" 2:35 screen with a 14' throw and 11' seating distance, running on high lamp as the grey material is too dim, and using zoom:

Transformers: dark of the moon (phenomenal)
Oblivion (phenomenal)
After Earth (mastered in 4k)
Jaws 4k Restoration
Iron Man
The Dark Knight
The Dark Knight rises
Prisoners
Pacific Rim
LOTR Extended Trilogy
Captain Phillips

I found that these were acceptable but far from amazing on the projector, but look great on my Sony XBR flatscreen:
Kick Ass 1&2
Man Of Steel (soft when zoomed)
Star wars episode 3 (pretty great at times but often soft)
The conjuring
Harry Potter 1-8
Transformers 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post

Can you provide the names of movies (sources) you are testing that made you think that it looks like 4K? I am currently using PS3 and won't mind if PS4 makes it that much better. Is PS4 available in shops now?
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post #2170 of 3508 Old 03-03-2014, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by hwoarang View Post






The video quality of Blu Rays differ tremendously on the projector; even where they previously looked great on a flat screen. Off the top of my head, the following look amazing on the 600es using a PS4. Note that I'm on a Firehawk G4 120" 2:35 screen with a 14' throw and 11' seating distance, running on high lamp as the grey material is too dim, and using zoom:

Transformers: dark of the moon (phenomenal)
Oblivion (phenomenal)
After Earth (mastered in 4k)
Jaws 4k Restoration
Iron Man
The Dark Knight
The Dark Knight rises
Prisoners
Pacific Rim
LOTR Extended Trilogy
Captain Phillips

I found that these were acceptable but far from amazing on the projector, but look great on my Sony XBR flatscreen:
Kick Ass 1&2
Man Of Steel (soft when zoomed)
Star wars episode 3 (pretty great at times but often soft)
The conjuring
Harry Potter 1-8
Transformers 1

What are the details on the screen , I seem to re,member you are using a High Power 2.4?
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post #2171 of 3508 Old 03-03-2014, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

At the moment I don't quite understand why there is so much fuss about the bandwidth capabilities that either the 600ES or 1100ES has. We don't even know what the requirements for blu-ray 4K will be. We are way too quick to assume the current chip that provides less bandwidth won't be able to handle the data throughput needed for the next gen standard. My guess is that Sony already has a large grasp on what that next generation standard will be as they've always been one of the big companies calling most of the shots when it comes to consumer media distribution channels and standards. With that in mind it wouldn't surprise me at all if both machines already have what it takes for 4K blu-ray. I'm sure Sony knew this when releasing the update for the 1000ES and knew what they were doing when they were designing the I/O of the 600ES. Until there is word that it WON'T be able to handle the next consumer video standard let's stop criticizing Sony for it's decision until we know for a fact that these machines can't handle it. smile.gif

 

I can only agree to your statement. Sony has its grasp on bluray as well (add HDMI founder and HDCP + content provider). Sony has also tried to firmware upgrade stuff they could (remember PS3 and first FMPX-1 received upgrades on their 4k TVs, VW1000 *paid* upgrade to VW1100).

 

No one knows for sure how it will turn out for 4k Blurays but I give them the benefit of the doubt on this... :p 

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post #2172 of 3508 Old 03-03-2014, 12:42 PM
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I fully expect to be playing 4K BD's on my 600ES next year. smile.gif

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post #2173 of 3508 Old 03-03-2014, 01:57 PM
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I fully expect to be playing 4K BD's on my 600ES next year. smile.gif

Where you going to get the 4K disks confused.gif
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post #2174 of 3508 Old 03-03-2014, 02:27 PM
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Where you going to get the 4K disks confused.gif

Maybe Mike knows something I don't ? Or, he's a hopeful optimist !

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post #2175 of 3508 Old 03-03-2014, 02:40 PM
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Where you going to get the 4K disks confused.gif

Probably from the South American river. smile.gif They are coming, it is only a matter of time. Slight possibility, that we could have a 4K BD this year, but more likely, they will be available next year. Not expecting a big selection, but at least a start. smile.gif

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post #2176 of 3508 Old 03-03-2014, 02:50 PM
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Probably from the South American river. smile.gif They are coming, it is only a matter of time. Slight possibility, that we could have a 4K BD this year, but more likely, they will be available next year. Not expecting a big selection, but at least a start. smile.gif

I sure do hope the 4K Players have a vertical stretch function since my Sony doesn't
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post #2177 of 3508 Old 03-03-2014, 02:58 PM
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I sure do hope the 4K Players have a vertical stretch function since my Sony doesn't

Lumagen will have one, but with all the features it will have, it will not be cheap.

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post #2178 of 3508 Old 03-03-2014, 03:42 PM
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if folks are really jonsing for 4K content, there is always this..... Sony 4K Camera

I watched some demo footage on my 4K HTPC and it looked amazing. Raw data right from the camera's SSD drive must look out of this world good.
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post #2179 of 3508 Old 03-03-2014, 04:09 PM
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if folks are really jonsing for 4K content, there is always this..... Sony 4K Camera

I watched some demo footage on my 4K HTPC and it looked amazing. Raw data right from the camera's SSD drive must look out of this world good.

Now you've pissed me off.............I want one!!! mad.gif

Actually, my GoPro camera is 4K the detail in the pictures from this little camera are amazing. Cannot imagine how incredible this new Sony 4K camcorder would be.
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Lumagen will have one, but with all the features it will have, it will not be cheap.

Mike, be sure to have me on the mailing list for the first one out. I may have to make my own movies with the 4K camcorder but what the hell, it's worthit right? wink.gif
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Lumagen will have one, but with all the features it will have, it will not be cheap.


Saving my pennies for this one...

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post #2182 of 3508 Old 03-03-2014, 08:38 PM
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The video quality of Blu Rays differ tremendously on the projector; even where they previously looked great on a flat screen. Off the top of my head, the following look amazing on the 600es using a PS4. Note that I'm on a Firehawk G4 120" 2:35 screen with a 14' throw and 11' seating distance, running on high lamp as the grey material is too dim, and using zoom:

Transformers: dark of the moon (phenomenal)
Oblivion (phenomenal)
After Earth (mastered in 4k)
Jaws 4k Restoration
Iron Man
The Dark Knight
The Dark Knight rises
Prisoners
Pacific Rim
LOTR Extended Trilogy
Captain Phillips

I found that these were acceptable but far from amazing on the projector, but look great on my Sony XBR flatscreen:
Kick Ass 1&2
Man Of Steel (soft when zoomed)
Star wars episode 3 (pretty great at times but often soft)
The conjuring
Harry Potter 1-8
Transformers 1

Hey man...take this with a grain of salt because I'm not an A/V pro, but all your screenshots are completely blown out. I mean your black is grey and everything else is neon white. Especially the oblivion ones you posted earlier. I'm not sure what settings you're running this projector on, but they look like best buy floor settings, or even brighter, if that's possible. I know you said you did not like the "ISF" type look and preferred a more "vivid" look...maybe the issue is projectors aren't really made to produce that kind of image? Not sure if this is also producing more sparkles than normal on your screen but maybe the experts can chime in...
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post #2183 of 3508 Old 03-03-2014, 08:42 PM
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Not everyone wants a "reference" viewing situation regarding color and general settings. Much like frame interpolation, to each their own. As long as he isn't giving others advice on how the image should look he can do whatever he wants. smile.gif

I guess in this situation he shouldn't be telIing people what "looks good" because the rest of us won't be viewing these films the same way he does.

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post #2184 of 3508 Old 03-03-2014, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gks55 View Post

Hey man...take this with a grain of salt because I'm not an A/V pro, but all your screenshots are completely blown out. I mean your black is grey and everything else is neon white. Especially the oblivion ones you posted earlier. I'm not sure what settings you're running this projector on, but they look like best buy floor settings, or even brighter, if that's possible. I know you said you did not like the "ISF" type look and preferred a more "vivid" look...maybe the issue is projectors aren't really made to produce that kind of image? Not sure if this is also producing more sparkles than normal on your screen but maybe the experts can chime in...

All those problems can also be attributed to the screen shot itself. The typical digital camera doesn't have the dynamic range to fully capture a high contrast image on a projector like the JVC, and hence dark areas and bright areas will be blown out, crushed blacks, lost high light detail. Someone who knows what he is doing can get much closer, but most people taking screen shots aren't that experienced (or are using
insufficient cameras). So, while he may be watching an image that is losing detail, since it's just as likely a problem with the actual screen shot, you can't really say without seeing the image.
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post #2185 of 3508 Old 03-03-2014, 09:03 PM
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Hmm true. Maybe he should post his settings so everyone is on the same page.
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post #2186 of 3508 Old 03-04-2014, 12:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

Not everyone wants a "reference" viewing situation regarding color and general settings. Much like frame interpolation, to each their own. As long as he isn't giving others advice on how the image should look he can do whatever he wants. smile.gif

I guess in this situation he shouldn't be telIing people what "looks good" because the rest of us won't be viewing these films the same way he does.

 

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Hey man...take this with a grain of salt because I'm not an A/V pro, but all your screenshots are completely blown out. I mean your black is grey and everything else is neon white. Especially the oblivion ones you posted earlier. I'm not sure what settings you're running this projector on, but they look like best buy floor settings, or even brighter, if that's possible. I know you said you did not like the "ISF" type look and preferred a more "vivid" look...maybe the issue is projectors aren't really made to produce that kind of image? Not sure if this is also producing more sparkles than normal on your screen but maybe the experts can chime in...

Thanks for both of you taking the time to comment on my post!  However, I'm not sure I understand fully.  A home projector is attempting to replicate the cinema no?  I live down the street from the Dolby Theater, The DGA and The Arclight Cinerama Dome.  I would assume that those are good "reference" quality presentations to base my experience off?  You're right, I do like a poppy, vivid picture, just like the 3 places I mentioned above give in their presentation, every time I see a movie.  I also represent a lot of studio heads, so I have the incredible privilege of seeing movies at the private screening rooms at Sony, Disney, Lionsgate, Paramount, Bad Robot etc.  I would say that those presentations, and the years of going to any regular cinema have cumulatively set my expectations for a home theater experience.

 

I am by no means an A/V pro, but certainly an enthusiast, and would bet that most people would aspire for their movies to look the way I prefer them, as the studio "reference" seem to be what I gravitate towards. I'm in these screening rooms all the time, and am always nerding out about picture and sound quality after the movies.  By example, I will tell you that "The Amazing Spiderman 2" is a very fun film and a lot poppier than the original.  ISF calibration by comparison, is unwatchable to me.

 

Keep in mind that these photos are on a Firehawk G4 so the blacks are quite black, AND if you look , I have sconces on either side of the screen, and the adjacent rooms chandelier light is on.

Another thing, is that these photos were taken with a smart phone under low light, not sure that's a good representation of the picture I'm seeing at home.  That,' plus, I'm a crap photographer.  Hope that clears things up.

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post #2187 of 3508 Old 03-04-2014, 12:34 AM
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What are the details on the screen , I seem to re,member you are using a High Power 2.4?

Firehawk G4 120" 2:35 screen with a 14' throw and 11' seating distance, running on high lamp as the grey material is too dim, and using zoom.  You missed the details in the post.  I've done a lot of tweaking, changed my source, and moved the couch back a little.  All of these helped...

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post #2188 of 3508 Old 03-04-2014, 04:40 AM
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Originally Posted by hwoarang View Post

Thanks for both of you taking the time to comment on my post!  However, I'm not sure I understand fully.  A home projector is attempting to replicate the cinema no?  I live down the street from the Dolby Theater, The DGA and The Arclight Cinerama Dome.  I would assume that those are good "reference" quality presentations to base my experience off?  You're right, I do like a poppy, vivid picture, just like the 3 places I mentioned above give in their presentation, every time I see a movie.  I also represent a lot of studio heads, so I have the incredible privilege of seeing movies at the private screening rooms at Sony, Disney, Lionsgate, Paramount, Bad Robot etc.  I would say that those presentations, and the years of going to any regular cinema have cumulatively set my expectations for a home theater experience.

I am by no means an A/V pro, but certainly an enthusiast, and would bet that most people would aspire for their movies to look the way I prefer them, as the studio "reference" seem to be what I gravitate towards. I'm in these screening rooms all the time, and am always nerding out about picture and sound quality after the movies.  By example, I will tell you that "The Amazing Spiderman 2" is a very fun film and a lot poppier than the original.  ISF calibration by comparison, is unwatchable to me.

Keep in mind that these photos are on a Firehawk G4 so the blacks are quite black, AND if you look , I have sconces on either side of the screen, and the adjacent rooms chandelier light is on.
Another thing, is that these photos were taken with a smart phone under low light, not sure that's a good representation of the picture I'm seeing at home.  That,' plus, I'm a crap photographer.  Hope that clears things up.

I thought ISF/THX was basically reference?
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post #2189 of 3508 Old 03-04-2014, 04:51 AM
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Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

All those problems can also be attributed to the screen shot itself. The typical digital camera doesn't have the dynamic range to fully capture a high contrast image on a projector like the JVC, and hence dark areas and bright areas will be blown out, crushed blacks, lost high light detail. Someone who knows what he is doing can get much closer, but most people taking screen shots aren't that experienced (or are using
insufficient cameras). So, while he may be watching an image that is losing detail, since it's just as likely a problem with the actual screen shot, you can't really say without seeing the image.

+ 1, I have a Canon 5D MKii and still find it challenging to get a good screen shot . Then there is the viewers display, who knows what the settings are at the other end too.
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post #2190 of 3508 Old 03-04-2014, 05:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hwoarang View Post

Thanks for both of you taking the time to comment on my post!  However, I'm not sure I understand fully.  A home projector is attempting to replicate the cinema no?  I live down the street from the Dolby Theater, The DGA and The Arclight Cinerama Dome.  I would assume that those are good "reference" quality presentations to base my experience off?  You're right, I do like a poppy, vivid picture, just like the 3 places I mentioned above give in their presentation, every time I see a movie.  I also represent a lot of studio heads, so I have the incredible privilege of seeing movies at the private screening rooms at Sony, Disney, Lionsgate, Paramount, Bad Robot etc.  I would say that those presentations, and the years of going to any regular cinema have cumulatively set my expectations for a home theater experience.

I am by no means an A/V pro, but certainly an enthusiast, and would bet that most people would aspire for their movies to look the way I prefer them, as the studio "reference" seem to be what I gravitate towards. I'm in these screening rooms all the time, and am always nerding out about picture and sound quality after the movies.  By example, I will tell you that "The Amazing Spiderman 2" is a very fun film and a lot poppier than the original.  ISF calibration by comparison, is unwatchable to me.

Keep in mind that these photos are on a Firehawk G4 so the blacks are quite black, AND if you look , I have sconces on either side of the screen, and the adjacent rooms chandelier light is on.
Another thing, is that these photos were taken with a smart phone under low light, not sure that's a good representation of the picture I'm seeing at home.  That,' plus, I'm a crap photographer.  Hope that clears things up.

Well, I for one am very envious. You get to experience movies in private screening rooms at some impressive venues, most can only dream of such a privilege. Considering your pictures were taken with a smart phone and with lights ( noticed the side sconces on)
you got results one would expect. Thanks for sharing.
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