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post #151 of 222 Old 02-21-2015, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post
I'll give that a try later, I usually avoid 'normal' but will see how I get on. Going to be a shock going back to using a disc for patterns though, so I won't spend too long trying all the permutations.

If you have a laptop or PC you can install MadVR and use it as a pattern generator. Or even the PC Client 3.


[Edit sorry I forgot you had Chromapure, but I think it has a pattern generator too]
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post #152 of 222 Old 02-21-2015, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightfly85 View Post
I think you misread my posts or I miscoummincated something, but the AutoCal worked wonderfully for me. It made a flat 2.2 (average) gamma. In my previous post with the single image is from before I attempted autocal. In the post previous to that, you can see a huge improvement.

Even in the JVC graphs, the white line is "after" and flat, I don't have a "-" for the gamma name. So I ended up doing the autocal twice an got very similar results. Then I measured the results with my i1D3 and HCFR and confirmed the results were quite good. Perfect? No. But I can easily correct the imperfections now.

Here's a HCFR plot with the before and after on the same chart. The before the is the dotted lower yellow line. The before had an average of 1.7 (not shown). Th after has an average of 2.2 (blue line).
Quote:
Originally Posted by nightfly85 View Post
So Manni,

Am I crazy and reading something wrong? I am no pro calibrator, but I know how to use HCFR. I even did the HCFR cal twice to make sure post JVC auto-cal and you can see the graph of that result. Too my eyes, I see results across the board, gamma, color, and color temp. Temp seems to be the worse of the three..but that corresponds to something Harry mentioned that post cal, his white point was off. But with the worse dE of ~5 for one of the WPs, I can live with it for now.

No you're not crazy, I saw your post with the single graph and as it read post gamma I thought that's what you got after the autocal. Also I thought that in the last HCFR graph of your post cal your gamma is the yellow line, which still shows a strong droop (the blue line being the target 2.2 line). Isn't it the case?


It's true that there is no dash after your gamma profile and that the graph from the JVC software seems to show that it was corrected. But the gamma graph from HCFR (yellow line) shows the same gamma droop as usual.


Please could you provide exactly the settings you have used for this calibration?


I understand you had selected user1, then cinema as a color profile, a custom user1 gamma with 2.2 selected, and a custom color tempt with 6500K selected. Is that correct?


I don't remember HCFR well enough, but unless my reading of your HCFR graphs is wrong, I don't see a corrected gamma curve, only a drooping one.

[edit] sorry I missed the last graph with the before / after on the same graph. Yes if that's the case gamma is pretty well corrected.]



As expected, your color temp is pretty well corrected though.

Last edited by Manni01; 02-21-2015 at 09:55 AM.
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post #153 of 222 Old 02-21-2015, 10:06 AM
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Also as it does seem to have worked for you please could you enter the service menu and list all the versions for all the f/w parts?


I'd like to see if there are some differences there compared to my X500.


Thanks!
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post #154 of 222 Old 02-21-2015, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post

Please could you provide exactly the settings you have used for this calibration?

I understand you had selected user1, then cinema as a color profile, a custom user1 gamma with 2.2 selected, and a custom color tempt with 6500K selected. Is that correct?

I don't remember HCFR well enough, but unless my reading of your HCFR graphs is wrong, I don't see a corrected gamma curve, only a drooping one.
[edit] sorry I missed the last graph with the before / after on the same graph. Yes if that's the case gamma is pretty well corrected.]
As expected, your color temp is pretty well corrected though.
I've attached a "full gamma" graph from HCFR v3.1. It shows the individual RGB gamma; white (average) gamma in dotted cyan line; luminance is the yellow line, and the white dotted line is the 2.3 reference. So the average gamma, cyan line is what I really focus on in HCFR and that's spot on 2.2.

I started with User 1, Custom 65K color profile, custom user 1 gamma w/ 2.2, Iris on Manual 0, gamma pic tone +2, all others 0, low lamp; did the auto cal with "color + gamma". At the end, saw the "-" for temp and gamma. Based upon your feedback I knew if I clicked save at this point, only the Custom color profile would get updated. Looking at the gamma and temp, it looks like it was correctable to reference levels. So...

I changed the color profile to Cinema (based upon my OTB HCFR tests, Cinema was the most accurate CP for me of the 3 I tested that's why I used it) and redid the auto cal so that my temp and gamma cals could be updated. That worked and you see the results in my first first there with my cal results.

I then went back and re-selected my custom color profile based on 65K (as per your instructions on how to import these) and did just a "color" cal. Got good results and saved that to projecter too.

I stopped and switched sensors. I pointed my i1D3 at my screen optimized brightness and used HCFR to validate the results. You see those results in my first cal results post. I then went back in to the JVC and did "color only" cals for Manual Iris 4, 8, and 12. Then redid everything for high lamp. I don't use CMD.
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post #155 of 222 Old 02-21-2015, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
Also as it does seem to have worked for you please could you enter the service menu and list all the versions for all the f/w parts?


I'd like to see if there are some differences there compared to my X500.


Thanks!
Missed this post. I can, but only later tonight (after 9pm pacific) . If you want, I will also send you my "init" backup file - maybe that would get you going in the right direction.
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post #156 of 222 Old 02-21-2015, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightfly85 View Post
I've attached a "full gamma" graph from HCFR v3.1. It shows the individual RGB gamma; white (average) gamma in dotted cyan line; luminance is the yellow line, and the white dotted line is the 2.3 reference.

I started with User 1, Custom 65K color profile, custom user 1 gamma w/ 2.2, Iris on Manual 0, gamma pic tone +2, all others 0, low lamp; did the auto cal with "color + gamma". At the end, saw the "-" for temp and gamma. Based upon your feedback I knew if I clicked save at this point, only the Custom color profile would get updated. Looking at the gamma and temp, it looks like it was correctable to reference levels. So...

I changed the color profile to Cinema (based upon my OTB HCFR tests, Cinema was the most accurate CP for me of the 3 I tested that's why I used it) and redid the auto cal so that my temp and gamma cals could be updated. That worked and you see the results in my first first there with my cal results.

I then went back and re-selected my custom color profile based on 65K (as per your instructions on how to import these) and did just a "color" cal. Got good results and saved that to projecter too.

I stopped and switched sensors. I pointed my i1D3 at my screen optimized brightness and used HCFR to validate the results. You see those results in my first cal results post. I then went back in to the JVC and did "color only" cals for Manual Iris 4, 8, and 12. Then redid everything for high lamp. I don't use CMD.

Thanks.


I don't think the blue dotted line is your average luminance white. It looks like 2.2 reference to me. You average white gamma looks like the yellow line. No idea what the white line on the top is, but it's not a reference 2.3, or it would be a flat line at 2.3 (provided you're using a power gamma formula).


I'll try to reproduce with your settings, but I have already tried a user settings, factory preset, custom user gamma and custom color temp and that didn't work either here (for gamma).


By the way, now that you have a corrected color temp and gamma, you can use these with your custom color profile, so you should get great gamut and good gamma/color temp. They are independent from each other. If's not because you corrected gamma and color temp in cinema that you cannot select the same settings with another (custom) color profile. It should be the corrected versions now.


Please could you post your f/w info (if possible from the service menu where you can find the detail of all the sub-modules)? Thanks.
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post #157 of 222 Old 02-21-2015, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightfly85 View Post
Missed this post. I can, but only later tonight (after 9pm pacific) . If you want, I will also send you my "init" backup file - maybe that would get you going in the right direction.


Looks like we cross posted. I don't think your init file would help, because the init file only contains what we create with the JVC software. What needs to change is whichever targets are set in the f/w, because that's what the software uses as targets. It looks like the targets in mine are wrong. That's why I asked GaryB if it was possible to update the f/w with the correct values. Only Japan will be able to answer that.
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post #158 of 222 Old 02-21-2015, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
Thanks.


I don't think the blue dotted line is your average luminance white. It looks like 2.2 reference to me. You average white gamma looks like the yellow line. No idea what the white line on the top is, but it's not a reference 2.3, or it would be a flat line at 2.3 (provided you're using a power gamma formula).
Well what I've stated re: HCFR gamma graph corresponds to the context menu options and the hover tool tip text. If I turn off "reference gamma" the dotted white line goes away. If I turn off "luminance" the yellow line goes away, etc. I've attached my cal from HCFR. If curious I recommend that you download HCFR and check it out. In HCFR, the reference measure is always in white (by default at least).

I am running user 1 mode, custom color profile 65K, custom gamma 2.2 as my default setup. Those are the settings that I used during the two HCFR calibration/tests, the last of which is attached.

Also take a look at the "before" HCFR graph of the gamma several. The dotted blue line is at 1.7 - the average. That's not a reference level my friend, that's the average, white, of my PJ OTB in Cinema CP, custom gamma 2.2. Not good!
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post #159 of 222 Old 02-21-2015, 01:01 PM
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I assumed you had set HCFR to a power gamma as the JVC default presets are power gamma.
You have kept the default of BT 1886, so the white line shows the reference targets for a BT1886 curve (calculated on your black levels, from 2.25 to 2.4)
If you set gamma to power instead of BT1886 in the HCFR options, here is how your graph looks like (see attached).
The white line becomes the blue line, and both show a reference 2.2 line.
As I said, the blue line is the reference 2.2 for a power gamma, not your measured gamma.
Yellow line is your luminance line (measured white gamma).
Each of the RGB line is the line for each measured color obviously.


Still, your corrected gamma is pretty good, very little droop.
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post #160 of 222 Old 02-21-2015, 03:41 PM
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Similarly, if you look at your before/after gamma graph posted earlier, the blue line is not your average gamma. It's reference 2.2. The white line is the BT1886 reference (as you had selected or kept it selected in the options). The two yellow lines are your before/after measured average gamma.


The after gamma is not a flat 2.2, but it's still much better than the before curve. So in your case the software is clearly working (provided after shows after the autocal and not after a manual cal).


I'd really appreciate if you could list your f/w and if possible the details from the service menu when you get home so we can see if there are any differences between your projector and mine. I assume you used the V1.01 of the software with a Spyder4.
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post #161 of 222 Old 02-21-2015, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
I assumed you had set HCFR to a power gamma as the JVC default presets are power gamma.
You have kept the default of BT 1886, so the white line shows the reference targets for a BT1886 curve (calculated on your black levels, from 2.25 to 2.4)
If you set gamma to power instead of BT1886 in the HCFR options, here is how your graph looks like (see attached).
The white line becomes the blue line, and both show a reference 2.2 line.
As I said, the blue line is the reference 2.2 for a power gamma, not your measured gamma.
Yellow line is your luminance line (measured white gamma).
Each of the RGB line is the line for each measured color obviously.


Still, your corrected gamma is pretty good, very little droop.
Yes, I missed that comment about "power gamma" - I am not familiar with that. I just used HCFR in default mode in the past.

I like this autocal stuff - saves me a lot of time.
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post #162 of 222 Old 02-21-2015, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightfly85 View Post
Yes, I missed that comment about "power gamma" - I am not familiar with that. I just used HCFR in default mode in the past.

I like this autocal stuff - saves me a lot of time.
No problem.


As it seems to be working for you, please post the details of your f/w when you can.
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post #163 of 222 Old 02-21-2015, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
No problem.


As it seems to be working for you, please post the details of your f/w when you can.
Here you go. Don't know the version of the Spyder drivers. Just using what came with the sensor. Didn't install software.
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post #164 of 222 Old 02-22-2015, 01:45 AM
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Would this be the correct sensor to get to try the JVC autocal?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Spyder4-Adva...s=spyder+4+pro

If you know a better UK deal Manni, please let me know, I need to keep costs to an absolute minimum for this in light of my VP issue.

Just downloaded the JVC software V1.01 from here:

https://www3.jvckenwood.com/english/...ationsoft.html

Zooming: Been there, done that, bought the lens, sold the lens...now using e-shift.

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post #165 of 222 Old 02-22-2015, 02:15 AM
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I can confirm what nightfly85 tried to a point but missing how to use the "CORRECTED" Color in a Picture Mode?


After saving a Custom Color Profile named say "CORRECTED" run the Color Cal save it under user1 if OK.


The only way to save re-calibrate Gamma/ColorTemp is to choose a Picture Mode other than user1 - Natural Cinema etc and save under Custom1 Gamma and Custom1 ColorTemp.


Where is the "corrected" Color saved can`t use user1 as Gamma/ColorTemp will not save?


Have to import it into a Picture Mode?
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post #166 of 222 Old 02-22-2015, 02:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post
Would this be the correct sensor to get to try the JVC autocal?



If you know a better UK deal Manni, please let me know, I need to keep costs to an absolute minimum for this in light of my VP issue.

Just downloaded the JVC software V1.01 from here:

https://www3.jvckenwood.com/english/...ationsoft.html

Hi Kelvin,


I bought the Pro and Elite from Amazon. Not the best price but the best return policy by far.


I used the link provided by GaryB in AV Forums to download the version he recommended for our units. Seems the same as this one.
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post #167 of 222 Old 02-22-2015, 02:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightfly85 View Post
Here you go. Don't know the version of the Spyder drivers. Just using what came with the sensor. Didn't install software.
Thanks, I'll check there against mine next time I switch the PJ on.
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post #168 of 222 Old 02-22-2015, 02:43 AM
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Thanks Manni. I will order it for delivery tomorrow, to give me chance to run an autocal (or two) before next weekend's film night. I'll feedback how I get on of course, plus what version I'm running on my X500 (if I can get into the service menu as I couldn't when I tried last week).

Zooming: Been there, done that, bought the lens, sold the lens...now using e-shift.
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post #169 of 222 Old 02-22-2015, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin 3000 View Post
I can confirm what nightfly85 tried to a point but missing how to use the "CORRECTED" Color in a Picture Mode?


After saving a Custom Color Profile named say "CORRECTED" run the Color Cal save it under user1 if OK.


The only way to save re-calibrate Gamma/ColorTemp is to choose a Picture Mode other than user1 - Natural Cinema etc and save under Custom1 Gamma and Custom1 ColorTemp.


Where is the "corrected" Color saved can`t use user1 as Gamma/ColorTemp will not save?


Have to import it into a Picture Mode?
You have to cal a custom color profile separately from gamma/temp. So you start with "Natural or Cinema, or ..." color profile, but custom gamma 2.2 and then do the "color + gamma" auto cal. Save that. That will update gamma and temp. Then go back and change the color profile to your custom one and redo the auto cal and then save that. That will update your color.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
Hi Kelvin,

I used the link provided by GaryB in AV Forums to download the version he recommended for our units. Seems the same as this one.
Right! I am using the same, v1.01.

I've decided to try to get SpectraCal's Color Checker up and going, but with a ceiling mounted PJ shooting through a hole in the wall, it's tough to run a serial cable. So I have a bluetooth serial adapter I am trying to get working (I use it for my my telescope control normally).
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post #170 of 222 Old 02-22-2015, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post
Thanks Manni. I will order it for delivery tomorrow, to give me chance to run an autocal (or two) before next weekend's film night. I'll feedback how I get on of course, plus what version I'm running on my X500 (if I can get into the service menu as I couldn't when I tried last week).

You have to be a bit slower on the remote than was needed with the X35. Same keys, just a slight timing difference. If you slow down a bit you should get it right away.
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post #171 of 222 Old 02-24-2015, 12:55 AM
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Just to update this thread:

I ran the autocal last night in my two User modes. Afterwards I manually checked the greyscale, gamma and gamut using the AVS HD709 disc and Chromapure with my i1D3 Pro. I now have a pretty flat gamma response in both user modes, the greyscale only needed the RGB gains adjusting to give me a good result at all levels. So this process has resolved my bad gamma droop (I only need to set custom gamma at 2.2 to achieve a flat 2.3 measured now) and the greyscale doesn't end up too red at the low end if >40% is set to less than 3dE. (In fact most of the greyscale was under 2dE).

The only issue being that the colour gamut (custom colour 1 or 2) left me with clipping on red and blue at about 230. I used the CMS sparingly (only lightness controls to reduce three colours that had too much luminance) and managed to get mostly under 2dE (all under 3dE) at 75%.

I understand from Manni that I could import a colour profile that I created 'HDTV' so I will try that another night to see how I get on. I hope that it doesn't affect the great greyscale/gamma I have so far and if I get similar results to Manni then hopefully I will have a pretty good gamut without using a VP.
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post #172 of 222 Old 02-24-2015, 06:55 PM
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Backup procedure

Sorry for being a bit late here. From your previous post:

"I thought it never worked but it does work, partially, the first time. I loaded the factory settings (backup-up just before saving the first calibration, so make sure you never lose that file, it's the one with "init" in it)"

How is this done with the JVC software?
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post #173 of 222 Old 02-25-2015, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dadorama View Post
Sorry for being a bit late here. From your previous post:

"I thought it never worked but it does work, partially, the first time. I loaded the factory settings (backup-up just before saving the first calibration, so make sure you never lose that file, it's the one with "init" in it)"

How is this done with the JVC software?
After the first time you "save" any changes to the PJ, that file is automatically created. Copy it to a secure location.
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post #174 of 222 Old 02-25-2015, 01:04 PM
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Thanks, I'll try that this weekend...
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post #175 of 222 Old 03-02-2015, 03:00 PM
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Just a quick update as I finally got the JVC software to work for gamma calibration after a reset to factory settings.


More details, screenshots and measurements here: https://www.avforums.com/threads/jvc...#post-21826494


Thanks to all those who have helped
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post #176 of 222 Old 03-06-2015, 11:57 AM
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Like Manni, I have been making good use of this software. I managed to get the gamma/greyscale working straight off on my X500.. I didn't try the gamut side until later. I've been able to create a Profile which I've called 'rec709' and it is only slightly over rec709, such that by using only the CMS controls in the JVC I have been able to get the dEs under 2 when calibrating at 75%.

I'm waiting on a replacement Lumagen to arrive, so this new profile should work really well as a 'base' for the Lumagen/Chromapure autocal, but in the meantime I have a nice flat 2.3 gamma, greyscale dEs of less than 2.0 and colour gamut with less than 2.0dE at 75% (and it seems pretty linear from what I can tell with the limited test discs I have).

For the relatively low cost of the Spyder4 sensor and the free JVC software, I think it is a very useful tool, even better if you already have a better sensor to do a bit of manual adjustment/fine tuning afterwards.
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post #177 of 222 Old 03-12-2015, 05:14 AM
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Hi,

I want to try the X500 autocal,with the JVC provided software.
Please if someone is able to explain the exact steps, to avoid any mistakes during this process? as simply as possible.
As i understand Spyder 4 Pro,is the way to go,calibrating facing the lens projector.
This JVC autocal software is a fully automated process,or i must calibrate manually?

Thanks in advance
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post #178 of 222 Old 03-12-2015, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by maximus74 View Post
Hi,

I want to try the X500 autocal,with the JVC provided software.
Please if someone is able to explain the exact steps, to avoid any mistakes during this process? as simply as possible.
As i understand Spyder 4 Pro,is the way to go,calibrating facing the lens projector.
This JVC autocal software is a fully automated process,or i must calibrate manually?

Thanks in advance
There's a thread in the calibration section that describes the process in great detail. Head over there and search for it and you'll be in great shape.

David Vaughn Blu-ray Reviewer / Technical Writer Sound & Vision Magazine (Print & Online)
My Atmos Renovation Part 1 http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...odyssey-part-1
My Atmos Renovation Part 2 http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...odyssey-part-2
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post #179 of 222 Old 03-12-2015, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn View Post
There's a thread in the calibration section that describes the process in great detail. Head over there and search for it and you'll be in great shape.
Thanks
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post #180 of 222 Old 03-16-2015, 08:07 AM
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If i use autocal with,let say Custom1 color profile,it will modifi all Custom profile from 1-5?
It is important to save the existing unmodified profile on my laptop,before start autocal?
I must use the same values from my projector LAN(Ip Address,Subnet Mask and Default Gateway) to JVC autocal calibration software?
It is possibile to calibrate gamma and color in the same time?or i should do gamma,color,and color temp individually?
When i autocal the color temp to D65 i will lose some light from my JVC,because is correcting the default D65?

Thanks

Last edited by maximus74; 03-16-2015 at 08:12 AM.
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