JVC Auto Calibration - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 94 Old 10-02-2013, 01:57 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
fisher191's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 85
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
There has been interest expressed by several members about this feature but the forum has been remarkably silent in its replies.

When Cine4home did a 'whats new' technical review of the X series in 2012 it included a section about the feature and said: 'We are excited to see how well the system compared to a "manual calibration" works and will devote to the topic its own special know-how.' but nothing eventuated.

I can't believe that none of the professional calibrators or members that perform their own calibrations have not tried it.

Anyone care to set up and provide a comparison of auto calibration vs a professional one or other diy options?
fisher191 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 94 Old 10-02-2013, 02:09 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Seegs108's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Schenectady, New York
Posts: 3,737
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 96 Post(s)
Liked: 144
This will be a great feature for those wanting a quick "good enough" calibration every few hundred hours. The issue is that the calibration doesn't take into account the room and screen material so a professional calibration will always yield better results. This feature is nothing new. Marantz projectors used to incorporate an auto calibration feature back in the day and no one was crazy about it. Opinions will be similar. Like I said, this is good for someone who isn't all that worried about perfect color performance. This feature will get them "close enough" to ideal.
Seegs108 is online now  
post #3 of 94 Old 10-02-2013, 02:26 PM
AVS Special Member
 
coderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,953
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 140
The problem with auto-calibrating a JVC is the posterization in the end-result, unless this was only a problem on the RS-45...

You are better off only adjusting gray-scale and then using the white-point gamma, rather than the individual RGB gamma points. Also another problem with adjusting the individual RGB gamma points is that it can mess up the contrast.


Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks

Web Calculator v023 & v025
- Quick Peak at the new upcoming calculator
**Current Projector Calculator** -- http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com

Coder's Top Projector Picks of 2012 --http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....

coderguy is offline  
post #4 of 94 Old 10-02-2013, 02:40 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
fisher191's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 85
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Thanks Dylan, JVC has included tools to compensate for the room and screen with profiles for specific products from different manufacturers.

But I guess the real question is - how close is close?

The forum is full of threads where the pros and cons of small details are thrashed out. I am truly surprised that this issue is not discussed. Calibration is important - right? - and how many owners don't get it done? It is also probably contentious with professional calibrators wanting to explain the differences they provide.
fisher191 is offline  
post #5 of 94 Old 10-02-2013, 02:41 PM
AVS Special Member
 
coderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,953
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 140
On the older JVC's, calibrating the individual gamma points would be akin to throwing mud over your screen and then using an XACTO knife to clean it off. What the meter says doesn't mean much if the device cannot produce a clean image at what it is meant to produce at a given measurement.

That's why, start with the meter, but always also trust the eyes. No idea if the newer JVC's are like this as well.

It's not so much that it cannot get it close (after all how close is simply an electronic reading), it's more to the point in the way that it has to get there. Most of the best calibrations are done using the least amount of changes in the profiles, though there are pooty heads that think the meter means everything, and that's why I no longer visit the calibration forums that much.

I can show you a meter-perfect calibration that looks quite horrible on more than one projector, yet I can show you another calibration that might be off by +3 dE and that looks much better.


Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks

Web Calculator v023 & v025
- Quick Peak at the new upcoming calculator
**Current Projector Calculator** -- http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com

Coder's Top Projector Picks of 2012 --http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....

coderguy is offline  
post #6 of 94 Old 10-02-2013, 02:46 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
fisher191's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 85
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

The problem with auto-calibrating a JVC is the posterization in the end-result, unless this was only a problem on the RS-45...

You are better off only adjusting gray-scale and then using the white-point gamma, rather than the individual RGB gamma points. Also another problem with adjusting the individual RGB gamma points is that it can mess up the contrast.

Any thoughts as to why you are getting posterization? Does the auto calibration change settings that can't be accessed by a manual calibration?

Have you done a writeup of your experience? If not, how about it - please....
fisher191 is offline  
post #7 of 94 Old 10-02-2013, 02:48 PM
AVS Special Member
 
coderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,953
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 140
An ISF Level 2 calibrator at one of the Home Theater review sites also confirmed the same results when he was calibrating an RS-45, that's why I didn't pursue it further.

His suggestion is to not touch any of the gamma controls, my suggestion is to only modify the white-point gamma. It is likely a problem in the software or the modified interpretation of the color table when an R or G or B gamma value is individually altered off the balanced white-point graph.

In order to do a proper calibration on an LCD or LCOS device, you really need a second projector on you to compare the cleanliness of the image. I am somewhat displeased by some of the techniques of some calibrators, it's not about the meter alone (yes the meter is part of it), but it's about the end result.

If you simply bring a meter and do what the meter tells you to do, on many video devices it is very likely you will introduce just enough image noise or posterization that you would never know it unless you have another device to A/B. On DLP's, the problem isn't usually as bad, but that could be because I usually leave the Gamma flatter on a DLP (sometimes).

The Benq w7000 is what I use as my reference for not showing posterization at its different gammas, but a Runco would be best (though too big to haul around). The Runcos calibrate the best because they come out of the box already calibrated.


Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks

Web Calculator v023 & v025
- Quick Peak at the new upcoming calculator
**Current Projector Calculator** -- http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com

Coder's Top Projector Picks of 2012 --http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....

coderguy is offline  
post #8 of 94 Old 10-02-2013, 02:53 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
fisher191's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 85
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

On the older JVC's, calibrating the individual gamma points would be akin to throwing mud over your screen and then using an XACTO knife to clean it off. What the meter says doesn't mean much if the device cannot produce a clean image at what it is meant to produce at a given measurement.

That's why, start with the meter, but always also trust the eyes. No idea if the newer JVC's are like this as well.

It's not so much that it cannot get it close (after all how close is simply an electronic reading), it's more to the point in the way that it has to get there. Most of the best calibrations are done using the least amount of changes in the profiles, though there are pooty heads that think the meter means everything, and that's why I no longer visit the calibration forums that much.

I can show you a meter-perfect calibration that looks quite horrible on more than one projector, yet I can show you another calibration that might be off by +3 dE and that looks much better.

Sorry, my posts keep crossing.

If the auto cal is only changing settings that can be addressed by a manual calibration can you post the results (i.e. the numbers) that you saw for both? We can then get an idea of how it is working and what it is doing. I know the Spyder is not considered in the same league as colorimeters and that won't be helping.
fisher191 is offline  
post #9 of 94 Old 10-02-2013, 02:54 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
fisher191's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 85
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

An ISF Level 2 calibrator at one of the Home Theater review sites also confirmed the same results when he was calibrating an RS-45, that's why I didn't pursue it further.

I'd love to see the link if you have it handy.
fisher191 is offline  
post #10 of 94 Old 10-02-2013, 02:56 PM
AVS Special Member
 
coderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,953
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 140
The problem occurs whether you do it manually or using an AUTO-CAL, but the point is, an AUTO-CAL would be pretty fruitless on the RS-45, because you have to be so super careful on what you adjust to calibrate a JVC to end up with a clean result. You cannot just shoot for a flat end-result, you must shoot for a clean image. What I am saying is that you cannot touch those RGB gamma points on a JVC, period, auto-cal or manual, period.

I am not sure if the newer JVC's had the issue or not, or if doing it only through the Lumagen helped (doubt it).

I will find the post from SmackRabbit (or whatever his name was), give me a sec.


Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks

Web Calculator v023 & v025
- Quick Peak at the new upcoming calculator
**Current Projector Calculator** -- http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com

Coder's Top Projector Picks of 2012 --http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....

coderguy is offline  
post #11 of 94 Old 10-02-2013, 03:02 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
fisher191's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 85
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

The problem occurs whether you do it manually or using an AUTO-CAL, but the point is, an AUTO-CAL would be pretty fruitless on the RS-45, because you have to be so super careful on what you adjust to calibrate a JVC to end up with a clean result. You cannot just shoot for a flat end-result, you must shoot for a clean image. What I am saying is that you cannot touch those RGB gamma points on a JVC, period, auto-cal or manual, period.

I am not sure if the newer JVC's had the issue or not.

I will find the post from SmackRabbit (or whatever his name was), give me a sec.

Thats why I keen to see the gamma settings for the two methods on the same projector - to see how much the auto cal differs and how it achieved what it thought was right.

It raises an interesting thought - if JVC projectors create posturization with a technically flat gamma, do they leave the factory with a deliberate offset?
fisher191 is offline  
post #12 of 94 Old 10-02-2013, 03:10 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
fisher191's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 85
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

but the point is, an AUTO-CAL would be pretty fruitless on the RS-45, because you have to be so super careful on what you adjust to calibrate a JVC to end up with a clean result. You cannot just shoot for a flat end-result, you must shoot for a clean image.

Does this also apply to third party calibration software, e.g. CalMAN, or do they have ways to prevent it? How would a CalMAN calibration compare to the JVC auto cal?
fisher191 is offline  
post #13 of 94 Old 10-02-2013, 03:11 PM
AVS Special Member
 
coderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,953
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 140
The auto-calibration is done in conjunction with software, like Calman or ChromaPure, and usually a Lumagen as well, doubt the new JVC comes with its own software to do it?

Otherwise, I doubt an auto-calibration could solve such problems, unless the MFR of the projector made it posterization-aware (doubt it), so auto-cal just makes the issue more perverse.

You can get a flat gamma on a JVC if you want, but you have to do it with the white-point by adjusting the curve all at once, so you'll likely end up sacrificing gray-scale accuracy, and it makes it much harder to calibrate because you are constantly fighting with gray-scale accuracy. That said, I heard the newer JVC's do calibrate better, and from what I saw in person (but not with my own meter), the RS-46 models and later did look better OOTB.


Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks

Web Calculator v023 & v025
- Quick Peak at the new upcoming calculator
**Current Projector Calculator** -- http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com

Coder's Top Projector Picks of 2012 --http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....

coderguy is offline  
post #14 of 94 Old 10-02-2013, 03:26 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
fisher191's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 85
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

The auto-calibration is done in conjunction with software, like Calman or ChromaPure, and usually a Lumagen as well, doubt the new JVC comes with its own software to do it?

Otherwise, I doubt an auto-calibration could solve such problems, unless the MFR of the projector made it posterization-aware (doubt it), so auto-cal just makes the issue more perverse.

You can get a flat gamma on a JVC if you want, but you have to do it with the white-point by adjusting the curve all at once, so you'll likely end up sacrificing gray-scale accuracy, and it makes it much harder to calibrate because you are constantly fighting with gray-scale accuracy. That said, I heard the newer JVC's do calibrate better, and from what I saw in person (but not with my own meter), the RS-46 models and later did look better OOTB.

Apologies, I thought you had used the JVC auto cal. Yes you need to download the JVC software and run it from a PC.

I understand that it is not uncommon for projectors to posterize if the gamma settings are pushed too far. If the auto cal causes this, you could back down the worst changes manually to achieve the best balance.
fisher191 is offline  
post #15 of 94 Old 10-02-2013, 03:29 PM
AVS Special Member
 
coderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,953
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 140
Hmm, my understanding was the JVC created an interface that is then compatible with certain calibration software.
You are saying JVC gives you its own free calibration software that supports all the meter profiles?
If it does, I doubt it would be as effective as using Calman or ChromaPure with the auto-calibration. I do know Calman and Chromapure went out of their way to support auto-cals, so why would JVC even bother?

That's the problem, a mild amount of posterization is a difficult issue to detect without another projector in A/B. You can watch an entire movie and not see posterization, heck you can watch 3 movies and not see it, it's best handled by testing specific content in A/B of another device.

Even a mild amount of posterization ruins the image in some movies, though I suppose you can always just change the gamma back to one of the default settings. Another reason it is best to view another projector in A/B when calibrating is to ensure the intrascene contrast is maintained and not lost on the LCOS or LCD. DLP's work best as the reference for this, as their gray-scales generally flatten the gammas out to around 2.2 automatically when you calibrate just the gray-scale.

Most DLP's I've seen, you don't need another projector in A/B after calibrating to compare them to look for ill-effects of the calibration, it's only with LCD and LCOS, though I am sure there are some DLP's that fit the exception as well.


Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks

Web Calculator v023 & v025
- Quick Peak at the new upcoming calculator
**Current Projector Calculator** -- http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com

Coder's Top Projector Picks of 2012 --http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....

coderguy is offline  
post #16 of 94 Old 10-02-2013, 03:50 PM
AVS Special Member
 
buzzard767's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Naples, FL & Wausau, WI
Posts: 3,556
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Liked: 327
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post


In order to do a proper calibration on an LCD or LCOS device, you really need a second projector on you to compare the cleanliness of the image. I am somewhat displeased by some of the techniques of some calibrators, it's not about the meter alone (yes the meter is part of it), but it's about the end result.

If you simply bring a meter and do what the meter tells you to do, on many video devices it is very likely you will introduce just enough image noise or posterization that you would never know it unless you have another device to A/B.

Are you suggesting that the professional calibrator needs to have a projector in his kit?

Buzz
THX Certified Video Calibrator

 

buzzard767 is online now  
post #17 of 94 Old 10-02-2013, 03:52 PM
AVS Special Member
 
coderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,953
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 140
For some projectors, it's helpful. You could also use the LCD monitor on a laptop to compare, but it's harder and more annoying. There are test patterns I suppose that could identify some posterization issues.

However, to get the best result on certain projectors, yah you definitely need to take a projector you know calibrated perfectly, and you split-screen it with the other projector after you do the calibration to check for visual faults. I'm not suggesting he has to, because in many cases it's not feasible due to money/time limits. I'm simply suggesting my calibrated image would look a lot better than many "professional calibrations" of a JVC RS-45, because I don't just go by the meter.

Color accuracy isn't all there is, in many cases color accuracy is the least objectionable thing seen in the image unless it is way off, the gamma is often more important. To me though it is the balance of what really matters, and the JVC is just a tough beast to calibrate.


Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks

Web Calculator v023 & v025
- Quick Peak at the new upcoming calculator
**Current Projector Calculator** -- http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com

Coder's Top Projector Picks of 2012 --http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....

coderguy is offline  
post #18 of 94 Old 10-02-2013, 04:00 PM
Member
 
timescape7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 49
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Sony vw500/600es has a new auto calibration that does it right out of the optical block. No external sensor needed unlike jvc. Guess they must have added the sensor internally.....
timescape7 is offline  
post #19 of 94 Old 10-02-2013, 04:03 PM
AVS Special Member
 
coderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,953
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 140
Interesting, makes sense they could do that in that price range.


Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks

Web Calculator v023 & v025
- Quick Peak at the new upcoming calculator
**Current Projector Calculator** -- http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com

Coder's Top Projector Picks of 2012 --http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....

coderguy is offline  
post #20 of 94 Old 10-02-2013, 04:20 PM
AVS Special Member
 
buzzard767's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Naples, FL & Wausau, WI
Posts: 3,556
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Liked: 327
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

For some projectors, it's helpful. You could also use the LCD monitor on a laptop to compare, but it's harder and more annoying. There are test patterns I suppose that could identify some posterization issues.

However, to get the best result on certain projectors, yah you definitely need to take a projector you know calibrated perfectly, and you split-screen it with the other projector after you do the calibration to check for visual faults. I'm not suggesting he has to, because in many cases it's not feasible due to money/time limits. I'm simply suggesting my calibrated image would look a lot better than many "professional calibrations" of a JVC RS-45, because I don't just go by the meter.

Color accuracy isn't all there is, in many cases color accuracy is the least objectionable thing seen in the image unless it is way off, the gamma is often more important. To me though it is the balance of what really matters, and the JVC is just a tough beast to calibrate.

We know that the final step in calibration is viewing (and approving) reference material. Look at the Panasonic 2011 30 series PDPs for example. It would be nice if we could AB projectors but for a calibrator on a reasonable clock it just isn't practical although it would be nice.

Buzz
THX Certified Video Calibrator

 

buzzard767 is online now  
post #21 of 94 Old 10-02-2013, 04:21 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
mark haflich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: brookeville, maryland, usa
Posts: 19,279
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 112 Post(s)
Liked: 310
Coderguy. I haven't forgotten asbout you. I don't get or agree with a statement that Runcos calibrate better because they are closer to having a correct calibration out of the box. If one unit is calibrated by the manufacturer and another of the same unit is not, they should both be caple of the same level or quality of calibration If projector X, not a Runco, is off even considerably out of the box, if the right controls are there, if they have enough available range, if they are independent in operation etc, there is no reason it can't be calibrated as one out of the box. Of course if a projector simply can't produce the correct primaries, it can't be calibrated correctly Usually one primary will be the overall limitation re luminosity and the others will have to be lowered to produce the correct percentages of each..

Mark Haflich
markhaflich@yahoo.com
call me at: 240 876 2536
mark haflich is online now  
post #22 of 94 Old 10-02-2013, 04:22 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
fisher191's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 85
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Hmm, my understanding was the JVC created an interface that is then compatible with certain calibration software.
You are saying JVC gives you its own free calibration software that supports all the meter profiles?

They have this : http://www3.jvckenwood.com/english/download/dla-x95r_x75r_xc7800r_rs66_rs56_calibrationsoft.html and this http://www3.jvckenwood.com/english/download/dla-x90r_xc988r_rs65_calibrationsoft.html both of which only work with the Spyder 3 or 4.

You load the software onto a PC which connects to the projector via the network, it runs the test patterns, calculates the results and stores them to a user profile.
fisher191 is offline  
post #23 of 94 Old 10-02-2013, 04:27 PM
AVS Special Member
 
coderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,953
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 140
I'm sure the software is very limited in what it can do.
I would suggest a D3 w/ Chromapure or a C6 w/ Calman.


Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks

Web Calculator v023 & v025
- Quick Peak at the new upcoming calculator
**Current Projector Calculator** -- http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com

Coder's Top Projector Picks of 2012 --http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....

coderguy is offline  
post #24 of 94 Old 10-02-2013, 04:29 PM
AVS Special Member
 
coderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,953
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Coderguy. I haven't forgotten asbout you. I don't get or agree with a statement that Runcos calibrate better because they are closer to having a correct calibration out of the box. If one unit is calibrated by the manufacturer and another of the same unit is not, they should both be caple of the same level or quality of calibration If projector X, not a Runco, is off even considerably out of the box, if the right controls are there, if they have enough available range, if they are independent in operation etc, there is no reason it can't be calibrated as one out of the box. Of course if a projector simply can't produce the correct primaries, it can't be calibrated correctly Usually one primary will be the overall limitation re luminosity and the others will have to be lowered to produce the correct percentages of each..

In a perfect world, and usually on DLP's, but with 3 Panels in the sub-$5000 class...

Because the optimal hardware tuning of the internals as related to posterization and noise is often done closest to the default profiles. Though this profile drifts to how the meter reads, the drift often only makes the problem more substantial because you get even farther off the default.

I agree some projectors can, I'm sure your vw1000es is very good at it, but some of these cheaper projectors just don't calibrate that well. I said I am not sure about the newer JVC's, we are not talking about all projectors, just certain JVC's and some others I've seen.


Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks

Web Calculator v023 & v025
- Quick Peak at the new upcoming calculator
**Current Projector Calculator** -- http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com

Coder's Top Projector Picks of 2012 --http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....

coderguy is offline  
post #25 of 94 Old 10-02-2013, 04:30 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
fisher191's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 85
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

I'm sure the software is very limited in what it can do.

Why?
fisher191 is offline  
post #26 of 94 Old 10-02-2013, 04:31 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
fisher191's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 85
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Coderguy. I haven't forgotten asbout you. I don't get or agree with a statement that Runcos calibrate better because they are closer to having a correct calibration out of the box. If one unit is calibrated by the manufacturer and another of the same unit is not, they should both be caple of the same level or quality of calibration If projector X, not a Runco, is off even considerably out of the box, if the right controls are there, if they have enough available range, if they are independent in operation etc, there is no reason it can't be calibrated as one out of the box. Of course if a projector simply can't produce the correct primaries, it can't be calibrated correctly Usually one primary will be the overall limitation re luminosity and the others will have to be lowered to produce the correct percentages of each..

Hi Mark, do you have any thoughts about the thread topic?
fisher191 is offline  
post #27 of 94 Old 10-02-2013, 04:31 PM
AVS Special Member
 
coderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,953
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 140
Because non-specialists in software rarely make it correctly, too much lack of user input / testing. Chromapure and Calman have been at it for years.


Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks

Web Calculator v023 & v025
- Quick Peak at the new upcoming calculator
**Current Projector Calculator** -- http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com

Coder's Top Projector Picks of 2012 --http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....

coderguy is offline  
post #28 of 94 Old 10-02-2013, 04:32 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
noah katz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Mountain View, CA USA
Posts: 20,351
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 81 Post(s)
Liked: 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

The auto-calibration is done in conjunction with software, like Calman or ChromaPure, and usually a Lumagen as well, doubt the new JVC comes with its own software to do it?

Wait a sec, I thought he problem was when the adjustments were done internally in the JVC; are you saying the same thing happens if they're done within the Lumagen?

Noah
noah katz is online now  
post #29 of 94 Old 10-02-2013, 04:35 PM
AVS Special Member
 
coderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,953
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 140
Again, I never said the problem is with all projectors, I simply said on some JVC's I've calibrated, including my RS-45. And when this problem exists, the posterization isn't about getting the correct 709 primaries and secondaries (even though this requires a Lumagen on the 45 since no CMS), but getting it to the correct positions is often what causes the posterization on some projectors. I have seen it on DLP's too, the Viewsonic Pro8200 is one, though it's very very minor compared to the JVC.

If the problem occurs when you manually do a step, then the auto-cal is usually less-likely to fix it, because auto-cal isn't magic, it's just software modifying things until it gets it right. Though it keeps getting better every year, not sure who has the best auto-cal profiles. I never tried it on a Lumagen.

Zombie10k has done the auto-cals on the JVC RS-55, you can ask him.

I'm saying the limitation is an inherent hardware or firmware fault to the way the color table is interpreted. cannot fix it with auto-cal, but no idea if it applies to the newer JVC's.


Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks

Web Calculator v023 & v025
- Quick Peak at the new upcoming calculator
**Current Projector Calculator** -- http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com

Coder's Top Projector Picks of 2012 --http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....

coderguy is offline  
post #30 of 94 Old 10-02-2013, 04:42 PM
AVS Special Member
 
coderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,953
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

We know that the final step in calibration is viewing (and approving) reference material. Look at the Panasonic 2011 30 series PDPs for example. It would be nice if we could AB projectors but for a calibrator on a reasonable clock it just isn't practical although it would be nice.

I agree with you completely, though you'd be surprised how many calibrators think the final step is checking the gray-scale one last time to see if it might have drifted, rather than actually watching something smile.gif


Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks

Web Calculator v023 & v025
- Quick Peak at the new upcoming calculator
**Current Projector Calculator** -- http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com

Coder's Top Projector Picks of 2012 --http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....

coderguy is offline  
Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

Tags
Jvc , Jvc Dla Rs45 Home Theater Projector 1080p Hdmi
Gear in this thread

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off