JVC-X55R or Sony HW50 + Radiance mini 3d - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 11 Old 10-08-2013, 08:30 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm going back and for between these two Projectors. This is what I need and what is going to be use for:

Room is going to be light control
Screen 125" cinemascope screen
Shooting distance between 14' to 15
Seating at 11'

What is going to be use for:
50%- Movies
30% to 40%- Regular Cable (FIOS)
10% to 20% - Game


What I want from my projector is that I can watch all my media in cinemascope 2.35.1 format. I also want to be able to have some ambient light for like a Boxing night with friends. Other option is that because of my room dimension I can't have the projector right on center so I will need a projector that allow me to shift the lens horizontal and vertical to be able do this.

My Budget:
4k
Contenders 1:
JVC-X55R
Pro:
because how easy is to have my cinemascope fill without the need of lens or Video Processor(I know that with a lens I get a better picture quality, but I can spend couple of K for a lens, so that is not an option)
Con:
What I heard is that you need a dark room to be able to enjoy this projector and that the input lag is really bad. In my case I don't play online I just play sports and racing games.

Contenders 2:
Sony HW50 + Radiance mini 3d

This option give me the ability to fill my cinemascope, but I don't know if the picture quality will equal the JVC with CIH feature.

Pro:
My understanding is that the HW50 do better with ambient light and the input lag is really good. Free 3D glasses and free Lamp.
Con:
I have to buy two equipment and the cost will be more.

I'm planning to buy the projector early next year(I like to start my research early). So what projector would you guys buy if you were me. I also like to hear from guys with this Sony Setup and with a projector not in the center of the room. Thanks in advance
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post #2 of 11 Old 10-10-2013, 11:05 AM
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Anyone with experience with a Radiance to create 2:35? I am interested in this solution as well.
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post #3 of 11 Old 10-10-2013, 03:21 PM
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I originally used my Radiance Mini3D with my old JVC HD350 (RS10) before I got my lens. You simply zoom the projector to fill your 2.35:1 screen and use 1:1 pixel mapped (ie 16:9 setting on the Mini3D) for 2.35:1 content. The black bars are projected above and below the screen exactly the same for the VW50ES plus Mini3D and also as per the X55 when using it's zoom memory.

The difference being that with the VW50ES plus Mini3D for 16:9 content you either can manually rezoom, etc (probably worthwhile for a whole film IMHO) or use a custom set up aspect ratio set up/memory which 'shrinks' the 16:9 image to approx 1440 x 810 pixels which means it will fit on your 2.35:1 screen heightwise and you'll have black side bars (well dark grey since they will still be 'projected' by the VW50ES unlike the RS55 which will not be projected since the 16:9 image will still be 1920 x 1080 but physically only projecting on the 'middle' of the 2.35:1 screen.

The beauty with the Lumagen option is that for menus and trailers the AR change is instant. You don't really care that these are at 1440 x 810 resolution, more that you can read the whole menu and it doesn't spill all over your screen wall. You can even set your 1:1 pixel mapped memory setting to crop any image outside of the 2.35:1 screen so you'll never see overspill.

Zooming: Been there, done that, bought the lens...
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post #4 of 11 Old 10-15-2013, 06:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Would the JVC mask the black bars? So the black bars is outside of the screen?
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post #5 of 11 Old 10-15-2013, 10:08 AM
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I went all over the site on a similar question. I was debating between the Sony 50 and the JVC 35/46U.

I went with the JVC for the following reasons:

1. Lens Memory feature. Can do both 16x9 and 2.35 without additional cost of Lumagen
2. Using Lumagen adds cost and adds input lag. if you don't manually adjust the lens back to 16x9 picture for gaming you are essentially making input lag the same for both projectors.
3. Didn't want to manually zoom every time I wanted to change aspect ratios

Don't know if this helps but if the new replacement to the Sony HW50 (HW55) had lens memory it most likely would have been the segment killer for this year. Because it doesn't, you don't find a projector that has both besides the Panasonic but has been rated below the other three in terms of picture quality. You do get the brightness of the Sony, Lens Memory of the JVC, Good 3-D, but at the expense of top tier blacks and color.

I found the JVC with two pairs of glasses but no extra lamp for less than the Sony as well.

I have yet to game on my projector but from owners say its fine as long as you don't play FPS online where lag is critical.

I do not see gray bars on the side of my screen when playing 16x9 content. I have a 120" wide 2.35 screen. Projector is ~14 ft back. First row 11.5' second row 17'
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post #6 of 11 Old 10-15-2013, 10:20 AM
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So the radiance will not crop the black bars that are displayed off of a scope screen?
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post #7 of 11 Old 10-15-2013, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amb1s1 View Post

I'm going back and for between these two Projectors. This is what I need and what is going to be use for:

Room is going to be light control
Screen 125" cinemascope screen
Shooting distance between 14' to 15
Seating at 11'

What is going to be use for:
50%- Movies
30% to 40%- Regular Cable (FIOS)
10% to 20% - Game


What I want from my projector is that I can watch all my media in cinemascope 2.35.1 format. I also want to be able to have some ambient light for like a Boxing night with friends. Other option is that because of my room dimension I can't have the projector right on center so I will need a projector that allow me to shift the lens horizontal and vertical to be able do this.

My Budget:
4k
Contenders 1:
JVC-X55R
Pro:
because how easy is to have my cinemascope fill without the need of lens or Video Processor(I know that with a lens I get a better picture quality, but I can spend couple of K for a lens, so that is not an option)
Con:
What I heard is that you need a dark room to be able to enjoy this projector and that the input lag is really bad. In my case I don't play online I just play sports and racing games.

it's tough to address the brightness without knowing your tastes. I have an x35 which is essentially the x55 without eshift. I use it on a 120" 1.0 gain white screen, and 100" .8gain grey screen. on both I find the picture to be exceptionally bright and I have the iris fully closed on low lamp with eco on(not sure if eco actually affects the brightness?) I am able to watch tv and movies quite comfortably with the seating lights on(overhead pot lights directly above seating area, about 15feet back from screen) an the picture is still very watchable.

all these pics were taken with the same exposure/iso settings. not great pics, but ok for comparisons i think. this is with potlights on directly in front of the screen. it's not really watchable, but even if it was it's uncomfortably bright in my room.


this is with just the rear pot lights on full. this is watchable, reminds me of the cheap 3LCD Epson the jvc replaced. you lose some shadow details, but it's still watchable. I would also argue the room lighting is about twice as bright as what is comfortable to view in.


last one with the lights off, just for comparison(camera skills need work)


here's another shot, this time with lights off, and then with lights at a comfortable 'on', so about 25% in the rear.
lights off

lights on 25%



more examples at difference lighting conditions:
https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/971141_10152856670405032_1806801509_n.jpg
vs
https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/988435_10152856667220032_1830595061_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/9387_10152856668765032_341343294_n.jpg

I think when ppl say you need a dark room for the jvc, it's because its so black, that unless you have no windows and no lights on in the room, it's usually not the projector spilling light into the blacks areas of the screen. for comparison, if I put my cell phone(3" screen) on top of the projector and have it face the screen, I can tell when it's on because the blacks on screen rise. don't get me wrong, this doesn't make the image unwatchable, it just makes it look like most other projectors that can't get as black as the jvc.

gaming lag is another one that's hard to address. it's there, it may be noticeable. I don't find gaming on my x35 as issue at all, but I've always sucked online and rarely play against anybody that's not sitting beside me. for sports games I think you just 'adjust' your timing cause I don't notice it at all. imo, it's right at that point where about 20ms more would be it noticeable to pretty much everybody, but 20ms less would make it almost impossible for anyone other than the hardcore tournament player to complain about.

the only con I have about the jvc after using if for a few months, is the motion handling. this isn't something I've really cared about, or noticed in the past. i'm not one of those guys that can't stand watching sports on an LCD. but with the huge screen size flaws get magnified as well. I find if I sit front row, which is right around 1-1.2x screen width, fast motion kind of makes me sick. you can't really focus on anything on screen, it all goes blurry, and with the huge size it has a pretty strong affect on me(enough that sometimes I look away). I should point out, i'm talking about when something moves across the screen quickly, but when the camera pans quickly. so for video games and watching sports, I don't find this an issue, as it's rare that the entire screen pans quickly. doing a super quick 360 in COD might be the closest it comes to being an issue, but i'm not good enough to pull that off anyway, haha.

also double check your location will work. I had to move my x35 about 2inches lower than I had intended because using just a little bit of the horizontal shift greatly affected how much vertical shift I could use.

Displays: Samsung PN64F8500/JVC X35
AVR: Pioneer VSX-1018AH, 5.1 audio
Sources: HTPC(Mediabrowser), PS3, XBOX360, Wii, Sony DVP-CX995V
Control: Harmony One
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post #8 of 11 Old 10-15-2013, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bley View Post

So the radiance will not crop the black bars that are displayed off of a scope screen?

if I understand this correctly, here's how it breaks down.

for scope content, the radiance doesn't change anything, it allows full resolution through and a 1:1 pixel mapping. since your projector is 16:9 and there's nothing you can do without a lens to change that, it will always project a 16:9 image. so for scope content, the radiance is exactly the same as zooming.

for 16:9 content, you can either zoom the projector back out so the height of the 16:9 image fits on your scope screen, projecting a 1920x1080 image with unprojected black bars on the sides of your screen. or use the radiance to automatically scale down the 16:9 image to fit onto your screen giving you a ~1440x 810 image surrounded by projected black bars on the sides of the screen, and above/below the screen.

the advantage to the radiance is it's instant. if you are focused on scope quality only, it allows you to display 16:9 menus and junk that doesn't need full 1080p resolution quicker. the downside is obviously that if you choose that convenience, you don't get full resolution 16:9 content.

the jvc only takes about 10-15seconds to move from 16:9 to scope zoom settings. if you intend to watch movies, or shows start to finish, 15seconds every 30mins to 3hrs is nothing. in fact, if you have it set to 16:9 for the menus, you can set the movie to play, and by the time it's done showing the company logos, it'll be ready to rock in scope before the action even starts.

I think a device like the radiance would be perfectly matched to a native 2.35:1 projector. that way it could maintain full 16:9 resolution, and then upscale to fit it's native 2.35:1 aspect ratio. without that, I wouldn't personally consider it a good thing to use, I watch a lot of 16:9 content(including games) that I just wouldn't accept downscaled

Displays: Samsung PN64F8500/JVC X35
AVR: Pioneer VSX-1018AH, 5.1 audio
Sources: HTPC(Mediabrowser), PS3, XBOX360, Wii, Sony DVP-CX995V
Control: Harmony One
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post #9 of 11 Old 10-15-2013, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amb1s1 View Post

Would the JVC mask the black bars? So the black bars is outside of the screen?
It doesn't mask them, you just zoom the picture in so that those black bars are projected above/below the screen. the jvc is dark enough that black projected on the wall(assuming it's a dark-ish color) won't be visible.

below is the aiming pattern on my x35. it's set up on a 16:9 format screen, so I have it set for the outside edges. but if I had a scope screen, I would zoom it in so that only the 2.35:1 pattern in the middle displayed on screen. this would place the 'black bars' off screen, where you couldn't see them


for comparison, I moved the pattern up, so the 2.35:1 movie would be at the top of my screen. you can see the top part of the pattern on the wall above the screen, but when that's all 'black' it's invisible.

Displays: Samsung PN64F8500/JVC X35
AVR: Pioneer VSX-1018AH, 5.1 audio
Sources: HTPC(Mediabrowser), PS3, XBOX360, Wii, Sony DVP-CX995V
Control: Harmony One
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post #10 of 11 Old 10-16-2013, 06:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Perfect, so I'm thinking to buy either the JVC-X55r or the new RS49. Thanks everybody
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post #11 of 11 Old 10-16-2013, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amb1s1 View Post

Perfect, so I'm thinking to buy either the JVC-X55r or the new RS49. Thanks everybody

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