Projectors are OBSOLETE............Again. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 25 Old 10-12-2013, 04:04 PM - Thread Starter
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http://www.roadtovr.com/avegant-head-mounted-display-uses-virtual-retinal-display-realistic-imagery/

Projects onto your eye balls biggrin.gif Get ready for the great projector crash of 2014.

A new head mounted display by a company called Avegant uses 2 million micromirrors in a virtual retinal display to draw images directly onto the retina. The company says this replicates the way we see in real life and lends itself to much more realistic images.


According to Engadget, who got to check out a prototype of the Avegant HMD says that it produces an “insanely sharp definition and a realistic image even with low-resolution sources… the quality — and the overall experience — blows everything else out of the water.”
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post #2 of 25 Old 10-12-2013, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

http://www.roadtovr.com/avegant-head-mounted-display-uses-virtual-retinal-display-realistic-imagery/

Projects onto your eye balls biggrin.gif Get ready for the great projector crash of 2014.

A new head mounted display by a company called Avegant uses 2 million micromirrors in a virtual retinal display to draw images directly onto the retina. The company says this replicates the way we see in real life and lends itself to much more realistic images.


According to Engadget, who got to check out a prototype of the Avegant HMD says that it produces an “insanely sharp definition and a realistic image even with low-resolution sources… the quality — and the overall experience — blows everything else out of the water.”

it's a good thing nobody that watches movies has friends or family...

imo, this is not competition for anything that happens in my home. if it's good, it MAY be competition for my 3" cell phone screen for watching video on the go

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post #3 of 25 Old 10-12-2013, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

According to Engadget, who got to check out a prototype of the Avegant HMD says that it produces an “insanely sharp definition and a realistic image even with low-resolution sources… the quality — and the overall experience — blows everything else out of the water.”

lol, makes a sharp image from low resolution sources.

I smell



In any case the projector experience isn't just about how big an image appears to one, something that people who make these threads every few months seem to forget. Projectors are not going anywhere.
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post #4 of 25 Old 10-15-2013, 02:48 PM
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I think the idea is very interesting. I really would like to try one, but at the same time I have some doubts like if that technology projecting the image directly to your eyes wont cause any troubles (because the retina is very sensitive to the light and any problem with the projection, you can say goodbye to your eyes). It would be important them having some experts studying it and proving there's  no risk of using it. 

I thought one other thing when I read the article, why no making it with a giant screen like sony's virtual 750 inches screen? 80 inches isn't much. With a giant screen they would be great.

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post #5 of 25 Old 11-17-2013, 02:28 AM
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That's another review from a few days ago. We'll have to wait until January to know more details. 

http://www.tested.com/tech/459020-hands-avegants-virtual-retinal-display-prototype/

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post #6 of 25 Old 11-17-2013, 03:29 AM
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Originally Posted by CARTmen View Post

I think the idea is very interesting. I really would like to try one, but at the same time I have some doubts like if that technology projecting the image directly to your eyes wont cause any troubles (because the retina is very sensitive to the light and any problem with the projection, you can say goodbye to your eyes). It would be important them having some experts studying it and proving there's  no risk of using it. 
I thought one other thing when I read the article, why no making it with a giant screen like sony's virtual 750 inches screen? 80 inches isn't much. With a giant screen they would be great.

Well firstly screen size measurements alone like that are useless for such a device. You need to know the screen size that it would appear to be, so basically you would want an fov measurement. Anyone who think this will replace projectors, next time you have friends over try and get them to watch a movie with you all wearing headphones and see how that goes. I'm not saying their is no place for such a device, just that it won't be replacing anything, at leat not in a widespread manner. Also projecting into the eyes I just don't see as being feasible for a long time (if ever) I think things like the Oculus Rift will prove more practical.
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post #7 of 25 Old 11-17-2013, 07:42 AM
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Well firstly screen size measurements alone like that are useless for such a device. You need to know the screen size that it would appear to be, so basically you would want an fov measurement. Anyone who think this will replace projectors, next time you have friends over try and get them to watch a movie with you all wearing headphones and see how that goes. I'm not saying their is no place for such a device, just that it won't be replacing anything, at leat not in a widespread manner. Also projecting into the eyes I just don't see as being feasible for a long time (if ever) I think things like the Oculus Rift will prove more practical.

you can't compare this to a projector. They have nothing to do with each other. And I don't think they want this to replace projectors. The truth is that i don't know if i want a laser pointed to my eyes, it sounds very dangerous if there's some kind of fail.  

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post #8 of 25 Old 11-17-2013, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by CARTmen View Post

you can't compare this to a projector. They have nothing to do with each other. And I don't think they want this to replace projectors. The truth is that i don't know if i want a laser pointed to my eyes, it sounds very dangerous if there's some kind of fail.  

I agree.
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post #9 of 25 Old 11-19-2013, 06:43 PM
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OKAY , but what about retina "burn in"....I don't ned the MGM logo etched into my eyeball...:eek....biggrin.gif
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post #10 of 25 Old 11-20-2013, 05:46 AM
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It includes a retina wobulator that moves the image slightly.wink.gif

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post #11 of 25 Old 11-20-2013, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post

It includes a retina wobulator that moves the image slightly.wink.gif

and what happens if it fails? 

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post #12 of 25 Old 11-20-2013, 08:05 AM
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You have to stare at the sun for 10 minutes to re-burn.tongue.gif

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post #13 of 25 Old 11-22-2013, 01:36 PM
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Kinda reminds me of a weird Star Trek Next generation episode....


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post #14 of 25 Old 11-23-2013, 08:40 AM
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I don't know why but I have a strange felling about this. :D

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post #15 of 25 Old 11-23-2013, 09:17 AM
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This product will just overall be another strange FAILING. FAIL.

You can't simulate the immersion and scope we obtain with distance with optical closeups, not yet anyhow. If it were true, we'd all still be watching a 50" TV and just sitting closer, think carefully. It is theoretically possible to obtain some of the immersion, but we don't watch our screens in a full-field of view, which is what makes these products somewhat impossible to work.

For instance, when you are viewing small images in order to fool your mind to think they are big, you need the FOV completely covering the eyes, then the issue becomes that it is not comfortable to watch things at a full FOV, so these products are always between a rock and a hard place.

Of course I don't know all the theory here, but I am just stating the obvious.


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post #16 of 25 Old 11-23-2013, 09:42 AM
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They don't cover all you retina, in the review they say:

Quote:
Sounds impressive, but the current Avegant HMD prototype has a 45 degree viewing angle, positioning it away from immersive gaming and more toward a wearable display for media.

So, this have the same FOV of others HMDs like sony's HMZ, and that is considered to be the best angle to see a movie, even if it is in a TV.

That's what I understood of the article, but the concept of the device seems odd to me. What happens when you move your eyes? You have to put it very still to work, I think, and that will be very difficult.  

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post #17 of 25 Old 11-23-2013, 10:12 AM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=GT-DaTV_ddk

 

this is a video with the founder of the company.

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post #18 of 25 Old 11-24-2013, 08:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by CARTmen View Post

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=GT-DaTV_ddk

this is a video with the founder of the company.

Great video.

EVERYBODY who has hands on with this thing has commented that the resolution seems much higher then 720p. I really want to try this thing out. I always believed that projection into the retina/optic nerve would be the ultimate way to view an image.

I also like that fact that it's using reflected light to create the image, which is how we naturally see. I think that might explain why me and many on this forum prefer a projected image over a direct view image. I've always found projected/reflected images to be more realistic then any direct view display. This could be because everything wee see in real life is usually reflected light. Staring at a LCD or plasma is one of the only times we see light that is directly being transmitted to our eyes. Everything else we see is reflected light (unless you stare at lightbulbs, or stare at the sun. LOL)

It seems like they are using very low powered LEDs that are illuminating 2 DLP microdisplays. The light bounces off the DLP DMD chip and is reflected onto the retina. I wonder how the black levels will be (DLPs usually suck in this regard) and I'm curious if rainbows will be visible ( I don't think they will as rainbows are usually caused by excessive eye movement)
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post #19 of 25 Old 11-24-2013, 08:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

This product will just overall be another strange FAILING. FAIL.

You can't simulate the immersion and scope we obtain with distance with optical closeups, not yet anyhow. If it were true, we'd all still be watching a 50" TV and just sitting closer, think carefully. It is theoretically possible to obtain some of the immersion, but we don't watch our screens in a full-field of view, which is what makes these products somewhat impossible to work.

For instance, when you are viewing small images in order to fool your mind to think they are big, you need the FOV completely covering the eyes, then the issue becomes that it is not comfortable to watch things at a full FOV, so these products are always between a rock and a hard place.

Of course I don't know all the theory here, but I am just stating the obvious.

Have you tried a Sony HMZ HMD? It's nothing like watching a small display from a very close distance. It actually simulates a much larger screen from about a 20 foot distance. I think the 750" claim is BS, but it appears larger then my 110" projected image. Again, Coderguy talking about stuff he has never tried and just making assumptions based on what works in his own head. LOL

Also, the new Sony T3 lets you choose your FOV.

I've sat within 5 feet of a 65" plasma to try to emulate a larger screen and it does not work, even though my FOV was around 45". The Sony HMD does work it recreating that large screen experience. Too bad it's uncomfortable and the low res is clearly visible.
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post #20 of 25 Old 11-24-2013, 09:02 AM
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Worst than the low resolution, is the price. 1300€ (1750$) for a T3 is insane. I hope this one will have a lower price, no more than 500-600$.

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post #21 of 25 Old 11-26-2013, 07:06 AM
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$1750? For real? I will laugh hard until next year !

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post #22 of 25 Old 11-26-2013, 11:49 AM
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$1750? For real? I will laugh hard until next year !

In Europe sony's T3 costs 1300€ (=$1750) and in UK costs 1300£ (=$2110). I think they do not want to sell any in Europe. :D 

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post #23 of 25 Old 11-30-2013, 08:12 AM
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In the US, the Sony T3 is $999, got mine during their recent sale for $899.

It's much improved over their two previous generations.

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post #24 of 25 Old 11-30-2013, 08:37 AM
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In the US, the Sony T3 is $999, got mine during their recent sale for $899.

It's much improved over their two previous generations.

With that price I would have bought one, but with $1750 price I don't think I'll buy it. I'm hopping Avegant to be like 400 to 500$, maybe a little more, but similar prices in US and Europe.

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post #25 of 25 Old 12-18-2013, 10:28 AM
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New images, price and name. 499$ And a great design. If it has as good image quality as everybody says I want 2. :D 

 

http://www.avegant.com/avegant-glyph-renderings/

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