Anyone using the Stewart 170 1.7 gain or other similar + Sony HW50ES ?? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 15 Old 10-18-2013, 05:56 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm trying to get more brightness for 3D and wondering if the Stewart 1.7 will work without any horrible off axis or hot spotting issues. My thought was to get an over-sized curved 1.7 and mask for the various formats.

I currently have a Screen Innovations Solar 4K 1.37 gain and this is fantastic in 2D on a 2.35 120" diagonal. It is also very good on the same screen CIH for 16:9 @ 95" diagonal. When I run 3D
widescope and have to zoom in, I'm loosing the top and bottom bars which lowers the brightness below a level I fell is adequate. Was going to buy the A lens but the 50ES cannot upscale( stretch) any
3D content. I'd now have to buy a Lumagen to upscale , another big expense.

I'm now trying to find the best solution, buy the new 500ES, or a B stock 1000ES, go with the Panasonic or Epson for more brightness, stack a second HW50ES etc., etc.

BTW, I run my HW50ES 13.5' from the screen, the room is dark and 100% light controlled. My front row seats are 9 feet from the screen.
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post #2 of 15 Old 10-18-2013, 06:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post

I'm trying to get more brightness and wondering if the Stewart 1.7 will work without any horrible off axs isues. My thought was to get an oversized curved 1.7 and mask for the various formats.

I current have a Screen Innovations Solar 4K 1.37 gain and this is fantastic in 2D on a 2.35 120" diagonal. It is also very good on the same screen CIH for 16:9 @ 95" diagonal. When I run 3D
wide however and have to zoom in loosing the top and bottom bars lowers the brightness below a level I fell is adequate. Was going to buy the A lens but the 50ES cannot upscale( stretch) any
3D content.

BTW, I run my PJ 13.5' from the screen, the room is dark and 100% light controlled.

While that screen will improve your 3D, it may hurt your 2D. You could get a DVDO Edge Green, DVDO iScan Duo or any of the Lumagen video processors and let them do the vertical stretch for the lens. I use a Lumagen Mini for this, even though my projector can do the vertical stretch. That is because the vertical stretch is a scaling function and the Lumagen does a better job doing this than the projector. Also I let the Lumagen upscale all 2D sources to 1080P and since I have a Lumagen and a meter, I can auto cal my projector.

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post #3 of 15 Old 10-18-2013, 06:32 AM
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Perhaps you should check out retroreflective 2.4 gain screens from Da-lite or EluneVision. If you start with your projector within 15 degrees or so of your head, you get a very bright image with no hotspots. When you go significantly off axis, the whole screen gets dimmer, rather than the corners.


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Originally Posted by rcohen View Post

Perhaps you should check out retroreflective 2.4 gain screens from Da-lite or EluneVision. If you start with your projector within 15 degrees or so of your head, you get a very bright image with no hotspots. When you go significantly off axis, the whole screen gets dimmer, rather than the corners.

Still will hurt the 2D. He will probably have too bright of an image in 2D, meaning he will have to disable the dynamic iris. This would mean a loss in contrast. Hard to get good brightness with 3D and not have too much brightness with 3D. This is an area where a manual iris system like JVC has shines. An ND filter for 2D would also work.

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post #5 of 15 Old 10-18-2013, 07:11 AM
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Yet nother option would be to get a bright DLP projector for 3D use. There are a lot under $1000. That would be simpler than stacking or manually changing filters. The Optomas seem to be popular for this purpose.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post

Perhaps you should check out retroreflective 2.4 gain screens from Da-lite or EluneVision. If you start with your projector within 15 degrees or so of your head, you get a very bright image with no hotspots. When you go significantly off axis, the whole screen gets dimmer, rather than the corners.

I would have to change the position of my projector to go retro reflective with the 2.4 gain screen, right now it is on the ceiling and down so that it is directly in line with the top of the screen.
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post #7 of 15 Old 10-18-2013, 10:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rcohen View Post

Yet nother option would be to get a bright DLP projector for 3D use. There are a lot under $1000. That would be simpler than stacking or manually changing filters. The Optomas seem to be popular for this purpose.

That is one of the options I am thinking about for sure. The Panasonic AE8000 and the Epson 6010 are very bright indeed . I would want to know that the unit could upscale 3D content for scope though, that is the problem I have now .
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before doing all this flip and flaping for 3D, you have to ask your self, is 3D that important to you.

personally, i dislike 3D. i find my self focusing on the "extra dimension" that i get distracted away from the story.

To me resolution and brightess are more than the extra dimension. And you you have to sacrifice both when watching a movie in 3D.

Besides, when watching a movie in 3D. 3D is always never convencing; my brain refuses to believe its real or like i feel i am inside the movie(if that was the goal of this technology).

Even for 3D fans. According to many AV pros: In order to get 3D "done right" Movie filming, processing has to be done right. The director has to add the 3D effect in specific and carefully chosen way. in scenes that many directors can not muster so that 3D compliments the story and not interfer with it. Then you have the video and software people who have to be in harmony with the directors intentions and be masters of this technology to trasnlate his ideas in the best technical and artistic way possible which many movies fail to deliver.

Then there your equipment part (screen, projector, calibration, cables, or any peice of equipment that processes the 3D signal or just passes.

Then there the part where you just focus on examining the 3D effect during the duration of the movie (any crosstalk? where is the hot spot? is it tolerable? i should have gotten a brigher projector or, is it the screen? maybe the lamp is getting old thus dimmer? i should start a thread on AVS forums and see if anyone experiences this problem with the same setup,...etc."

My personal opinion, 3D is a nice idea, an eye candy one. But it should be experienced for 20-30 min in imax theater. I can not live with a dimmer and less resoultion in PQ. Many 3D channels closed because of no demand. People are just "no buying it".

3D i think will be obselete for watching at home. Future is OLED and UHD (4K). Or maybe they can make 3D better using 4k TECH. But even if that heppens, i will skip 3D all togther. The camera captures the picture in 2D (even 3D cameras). the third dimension is "added" how many can do it right?
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post #9 of 15 Old 11-01-2013, 07:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Salloom View Post

before doing all this flip and flaping for 3D, you have to ask your self, is 3D that important to you.

personally, i dislike 3D. i find my self focusing on the "extra dimension" that i get distracted away from the story.

To me resolution and brightess are more than the extra dimension. And you you have to sacrifice both when watching a movie in 3D.

Besides, when watching a movie in 3D. 3D is always never convencing; my brain refuses to believe its real or like i feel i am inside the movie(if that was the goal of this technology).

Even for 3D fans. According to many AV pros: In order to get 3D "done right" Movie filming, processing has to be done right. The director has to add the 3D effect in specific and carefully chosen way. in scenes that many directors can not muster so that 3D compliments the story and not interfer with it. Then you have the video and software people who have to be in harmony with the directors intentions and be masters of this technology to trasnlate his ideas in the best technical and artistic way possible which many movies fail to deliver.

Then there your equipment part (screen, projector, calibration, cables, or any peice of equipment that processes the 3D signal or just passes.

Then there the part where you just focus on examining the 3D effect during the duration of the movie (any crosstalk? where is the hot spot? is it tolerable? i should have gotten a brigher projector or, is it the screen? maybe the lamp is getting old thus dimmer? i should start a thread on AVS forums and see if anyone experiences this problem with the same setup,...etc."

My personal opinion, 3D is a nice idea, an eye candy one. But it should be experienced for 20-30 min in imax theater. I can not live with a dimmer and less resoultion in PQ. Many 3D channels closed because of no demand. People are just "no buying it".

3D i think will be obselete for watching at home. Future is OLED and UHD (4K). Or maybe they can make 3D better using 4k TECH. But even if that heppens, i will skip 3D all togther. The camera captures the picture in 2D (even 3D cameras). the third dimension is "added" how many can do it right?

Why have a home theater system when a flat screen can do the job? Why have a home theater at all, after all the same 2D experience can be viewed in a public venue, the impact much better and I'm sure one could save a huge amount of money.
Why have a TV at all, your PC can steam just about anything one would want these days. Personal choice I suppose would be the answer , I like the home theater experience and enough of my family enjoy 3D that it is part of the package. Some
people are sensitive to 3D, I am not and the rest of the clan also not sensitive that I am aware of. 3D is here to stay for a while like it or not, the Hollywood people make those choices based on careful research, I'm sure they know what the general public
want. There are all kinds of movie genres I do not enjoy buy others do, I just buy what I like. That reminds me, what a pile of sci fi garbage 3D and 2D was produced this year. I think Pacific Rim was the worst one, still, many fans loved it.

Anyway, I've done my homework , I'm going to add another screen that will function for 3D and will work for nights when the lights are on . When and if 3D dies, so be it, I'll still have my screen for the odd lights on sports night . In the mean time
don't hold your breath for 4K content or a Blu Ray4K player, even OLED for that matter. By the time the latter is mainstream my current equipment will be ready for change anyway. My new Sony 500ES I hope will get me out a few years before I want
a change.We'll see......rolleyes.gif

I do personally like 2D best and really dislike the 3D glasses to be honest. Fortunately, they do not illicit any negative effects for me and I do not get taken out of a movie because of the 3D effects. I do get taken out of a movie if it is garbage, doesn't matter what the format.
They again, one mans garbage is another mans treasure, it is what makes us fundamentally individual......I suppose, but that is just MY opinion........ wink.gif
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post #10 of 15 Old 11-01-2013, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post

I'm trying to get more brightness for 3D and wondering if the Stewart 1.7 will work without any horrible off axis or hot spotting issues. My thought was to get an over-sized curved 1.7 and mask for the various formats.

I currently have a Screen Innovations Solar 4K 1.37 gain and this is fantastic in 2D on a 2.35 120" diagonal. It is also very good on the same screen CIH for 16:9 @ 95" diagonal. When I run 3D
widescope and have to zoom in, I'm loosing the top and bottom bars which lowers the brightness below a level I fell is adequate. Was going to buy the A lens but the 50ES cannot upscale( stretch) any
3D content. I'd now have to buy a Lumagen to upscale , another big expense.

I'm now trying to find the best solution, buy the new 500ES, or a B stock 1000ES, go with the Panasonic or Epson for more brightness, stack a second HW50ES etc., etc.

BTW, I run my HW50ES 13.5' from the screen, the room is dark and 100% light controlled. My front row seats are 9 feet from the screen.

Have a customer using it with a JVC and they are happy with the performance.

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post #11 of 15 Old 11-01-2013, 08:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Have a customer using it with a JVC and they are happy with the performance.

This may be the middle of the road way for me to go. I cannot remember if I requested a sample of the 1.7 or not, I do have sample of the Vutec 2.2, the DnP 2.3 and BD 2.7 on the way. My 1.3 Solar 4K is fantastic for 2D, I'm sure there is better
but this fabric works great. Don't want to sacrifice too much on the 2D end, thus why I believe the second screen to be the best option.

If I do go one screen it will be curved and I will add the anamorphic lens, these things combined should get me close. I've committed to the Sony 500ES, hoping that will add some PQ to the mix as well. biggrin.gif
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your argument is not valid

as your conclusions from what I said.

"Why have a home theater while you can watch movies on a PC?"

Because the experience is better in a home theater.

I don't care for 3D when choosing hardware. My next projector will be a JVC RS series. And not because it of its now native support for 4K. As the Sony is much better with native 4K. I want a JVC because of the shadows and because it upscales HD to 4K nicely. 3D is not JVC's strongest point. And native 4K either, but as you pointed out. It will be very long time 4K becomes mainstream. However, JVC upconverts the now mainstream HD to stunning 4K(like) using the third iteration of their eshift technology.

There is nothing wrong or right of what i said. same goes on what you said. But I wont lash out at someone for expressing their views. democracy i think is the term. I think meaningful, respectful, and an "upscaled" sharing of opinions of any forum is the best way to learn and correct someone's misunderstood ideas. Even if you think that you are right. Which in my opinion still is "whatever floats your boat" there is no right or wrong answer here. I care not to read or respond to you after this as we will sway away from this forum focus.

To me 3D is not better than 2D. Or even the same. It is worse. that is my opinion and argument that you misunderstood and used to draw your conclusions. My reply was to express my opinion and my intention was to give you a different view and if 3D is not important to you then maybe you should skip it and save your effort and money.

For me, and I am sure there are many others, or you would have increasing number of movies shot in 3D until all movies are filmed and watched in 3D. Currently, not all main stream movies are 3D. In the future not all movies will be 3D. However, Hollywood replaced SD with HD and now the move towards 4K then 8K. 3D wont replace 2D.

if you decided to have 2 screens. Then 3D is important to you but money is not. So, by all means. Heck, buy a third screen for light controlled environment (only for watching movies) and another one or two for games, football and watching cable. buy JVC when you feel you want to focus more on contrast or shadows. An EPSON for your media room And Sony to watch 4K from your sony 4K server (which does not support your projector yet by the way, only Sony 4K bravia flat panels). What homework you have to do if you can just buy more?
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post #13 of 15 Old 11-02-2013, 03:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salloom View Post

your argument is not valid

as your conclusions from what I said.

"Why have a home theater while you can watch movies on a PC?"

Because the experience is better in a home theater.

I don't care for 3D when choosing hardware. My next projector will be a JVC RS series. And not because it of its now native support for 4K. As the Sony is much better with native 4K. I want a JVC because of the shadows and because it upscales HD to 4K nicely. 3D is not JVC's strongest point. And native 4K either, but as you pointed out. It will be very long time 4K becomes mainstream. However, JVC upconverts the now mainstream HD to stunning 4K(like) using the third iteration of their eshift technology.

There is nothing wrong or right of what i said. same goes on what you said. But I wont lash out at someone for expressing their views. democracy i think is the term. I think meaningful, respectful, and an "upscaled" sharing of opinions of any forum is the best way to learn and correct someone's misunderstood ideas. Even if you think that you are right. Which in my opinion still is "whatever floats your boat" there is no right or wrong answer here. I care not to read or respond to you after this as we will sway away from this forum focus.

To me 3D is not better than 2D. Or even the same. It is worse. that is my opinion and argument that you misunderstood and used to draw your conclusions. My reply was to express my opinion and my intention was to give you a different view and if 3D is not important to you then maybe you should skip it and save your effort and money.

For me, and I am sure there are many others, or you would have increasing number of movies shot in 3D until all movies are filmed and watched in 3D. Currently, not all main stream movies are 3D. In the future not all movies will be 3D. However, Hollywood replaced SD with HD and now the move towards 4K then 8K. 3D wont replace 2D.

if you decided to have 2 screens. Then 3D is important to you but money is not. So, by all means. Heck, buy a third screen for light controlled environment (only for watching movies) and another one or two for games, football and watching cable. buy JVC when you feel you want to focus more on contrast or shadows. An EPSON for your media room And Sony to watch 4K from your sony 4K server (which does not support your projector yet by the way, only Sony 4K bravia flat panels). What homework you have to do if you can just buy more?

Exactly, "what ever floats your boat." You have spent all your time telling me that you do not like 3D, it is not worth it and that it does not agree with your experience. Fair enough, don't buy the equipment for 3D, buy the JVC for better blacks/contrast, stay away from projectors that are brighter and better for 3D. All I said was
that we all have our own likes and dislikes, we make personal choices .....no insults made or implied . I like 3D as well as 2D, this are my personal choices. Personally I like projectors that are brighter , have more color and pop . I gave up the JVC RS45 to go with my Sony HWE50ES for that reason. Neither is right OR wrong
its just a matter of personal preference.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post

Why have a home theater system when a flat screen can do the job? Why have a home theater at all, after all the same 2D experience can be viewed in a public venue, the impact much better and I'm sure one could save a huge amount of money.
Why have a TV at all, your PC can steam just about anything one would want these days. Personal choice I suppose would be the answer , I like the home theater experience and enough of my family enjoy 3D that it is part of the package. Some
people are sensitive to 3D, I am not and the rest of the clan also not sensitive that I am aware of. 3D is here to stay for a while like it or not, the Hollywood people make those choices based on careful research, I'm sure they know what the general public
want. There are all kinds of movie genres I do not enjoy buy others do, I just buy what I like. That reminds me, what a pile of sci fi garbage 3D and 2D was produced this year. I think Pacific Rim was the worst one, still, many fans loved it.

Anyway, I've done my homework , I'm going to add another screen that will function for 3D and will work for nights when the lights are on . When and if 3D dies, so be it, I'll still have my screen for the odd lights on sports night . In the mean time
don't hold your breath for 4K content or a Blu Ray4K player, even OLED for that matter. By the time the latter is mainstream my current equipment will be ready for change anyway. My new Sony 500ES I hope will get me out a few years before I want
a change.We'll see......rolleyes.gif

I do personally like 2D best and really dislike the 3D glasses to be honest. Fortunately, they do not illicit any negative effects for me and I do not get taken out of a movie because of the 3D effects. I do get taken out of a movie if it is garbage, doesn't matter what the format.
They again, one mans garbage is another mans treasure, it is what makes us fundamentally individual......I suppose, but that is just MY opinion........ wink.gif

You can have an HT that has more impact than typical movie theaters. My theater has a better image than any of the local theaters and my sound has more impact. Speakers than can play clean reference levels and seven subs can do that. smile.gif

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post #15 of 15 Old 11-02-2013, 07:26 AM - Thread Starter
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You can have an HT that has more impact than typical movie theaters. My theater has a better image than any of the local theaters and my sound has more impact. Speakers than can play clean reference levels and seven subs can do that. smile.gif

Yea I agree 100% especially considering where I live "the" theater is horrible. I doubt the sound system has been updated in 25 years to be honest. Can't beat the impact of the crowd though, there is something about being in a larger audience that
has greater appeal . Like watching a NHL game in the Air Canada Center is nothing like watching it on my home system even though you get a much better reference and picture at home. Four "fantastic" seats at the NHL game costs more that my
120" SI Solar 4K reference screen , probably why I watch most games at home tongue.gif
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