JVC x 55 with darbee or Sony VPL-HW50ES ? - AVS Forum
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Old 10-24-2013, 04:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Is there a clear winner out of these two?...... I went for a demo of the Sony VPL-HW50ES and JVC x35 and really fell in love with the sharpness of the HW50!! that reality creation does some amazing things!!.

I have a chance to buy a JVC X55 for a decent price and I am torn between these two projectors. I am wondering if the x55 with a darbee can match the sharpness and detail I was seeing on the HW50!! my jaw hit the floor it was that good (never seen a x55 in person though)

regards my room. my lounge is around 16ft and my 16.9 screen is white @120"......... My walls and ceiling are white, but will try to blackout best I can to cut out ambient light

3D is also important to me as well. I am also a DLP fan boy as well so sharpness is important to me (all ready own a HD87 so want another projector technology for another room)

Thanks!
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Old 10-24-2013, 04:17 PM
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The JVC has a far more naturally sharp looking picture. Reality creation adds way too many artifacts to the image and gives an over the top artificial look on most content. Go back and ask them to put on some material that has film grain. The HW50 will look horrible and completely unnatural. I got to demo an HW50ES at a home theater meet for about 5 hours. We tried the the HW50ES with reality creation on low, off and then off with a darbee hooked up. All six of us there MUCH preferred the HW50ES with reality creation turned off completely but with the darbee on and set around HD30.
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Old 10-24-2013, 04:52 PM
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Unless all you'll use it for is sports and video games, I say go with the x55/ rs4810. That's not to say the Sony's not good with film and scripted material, but the JVC's dynamic range and black level sets it apart for me. In my experience, I have also found the JVCs to best the Sonys (vw95es and hw50) in focus uniformity. I owned the vw95es and preferred the rs4810.

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Old 10-24-2013, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamieuk147 View Post

Is there a clear winner out of these two?...... I went for a demo of the Sony VPL-HW50ES and JVC x35 and really fell in love with the sharpness of the HW50!! that reality creation does some amazing things!!.

I have a chance to buy a JVC X55 for a decent price and I am torn between these two projectors. I am wondering if the x55 with a darbee can match the sharpness and detail I was seeing on the HW50!! my jaw hit the floor it was that good (never seen a x55 in person though)

regards my room. my lounge is around 16ft and my 16.9 screen is white @120"......... My walls and ceiling are white, but will try to blackout best I can to cut out ambient light

3D is also important to me as well. I am also a DLP fan boy as well so sharpness is important to me (all ready own a HD87 so want another projector technology for another room)

Thanks!

I haven't seen the Sony but I have the RS55 and it can produce an incredibly sharp, precise image without looking artifacty. (JVC used to have a softer look, but it seems most people now say JVC has caught up and surpassed the Sony's in image precision).

And that's before I add the Darbee on!
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Old 10-24-2013, 04:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Looks like the JVC then................ Can I just ask how the x55 is with 3D? can it do 3D well?

My bedroom will be pretty blackout and the screen size will be smaller than my lounge screen (120") at around 100" so it might work best I put the JVC in my bedroom to get the most out of it and move the much brighter Optoma HD87 down stairs to light up my 120" screen with lots more ambient light around
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Old 10-24-2013, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

The JVC has a far more naturally sharp looking picture. Reality creation adds way too many artifacts to the image and gives an over the top artificial look on most content. Go back and ask them to put on some material that has film grain. The HW50 will look horrible and completely unnatural. I got to demo an HW50ES at a home theater meet for about 5 hours. We tried the the HW50ES with reality creation on low, off and then off with a darbee hooked up. All six of us there MUCH preferred the HW50ES with reality creation turned off completely but with the darbee on and set around HD30.

I think the key is material being watched. If you're watching more modern film/TV, Reality Creation is great most, if not all, - of the time. I leave it on the lowest level and it adds a lovely amount of perceived detail.

It's perhaps an acquired taste on some material. Personally, I leave it on at all times and think it looks aces.

For older movies, I'd just switch it off. No biggie. Then again I don't watch too many old movies. tongue.gif
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Old 10-24-2013, 05:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Yer I seen it with a modern docuemtary, the art of flight I think it was called!............. I remember looking at the image and thinking how impossible it would be to look any better! smile.gif
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Old 10-24-2013, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by WilliamG View Post

I think the key is material being watched. If you're watching more modern film/TV, Reality Creation is great most, if not all, - of the time. I leave it on the lowest level and it adds a lovely amount of perceived detail.

It's perhaps an acquired taste on some material. Personally, I leave it on at all times and think it looks aces.

For older movies, I'd just switch it off. No biggie. Then again I don't watch too many old movies. tongue.gif

We watched quite a bit of mixed material. If one hasn't seen many projectors you can't always tell if the projected image is "clean" or not in comparison to other products. Later in the meet, we pulled out my Marantz VP-11S1 that I had at the time and the difference was clear. Personally, I thought there was an unacceptable amount of added image noise. The Darblet adds the extra perceived sharpness without the excess of noise and artificial look to the image. Hopefully they tweaked the RC on the HW55ES and gave the user a lot more control over how subtle you can make the RC look. Because, like I said, even the lowest setting was too much.
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Old 10-24-2013, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamieuk147 View Post

Is there a clear winner out of these two?...... I went for a demo of the Sony VPL-HW50ES and JVC x35 and really fell in love with the sharpness of the HW50!! that reality creation does some amazing things!!.

I have a chance to buy a JVC X55 for a decent price and I am torn between these two projectors. I am wondering if the x55 with a darbee can match the sharpness and detail I was seeing on the HW50!! my jaw hit the floor it was that good (never seen a x55 in person though)

regards my room. my lounge is around 16ft and my 16.9 screen is white @120"......... My walls and ceiling are white, but will try to blackout best I can to cut out ambient light

3D is also important to me as well. I am also a DLP fan boy as well so sharpness is important to me (all ready own a HD87 so want another projector technology for another room)

Thanks!

Note what the poster said was important to him. PM sent. smile.gif

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Old 10-25-2013, 12:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

We watched quite a bit of mixed material. If one hasn't seen many projectors you can't always tell if the projected image is "clean" or not in comparison to other products. Later in the meet, we pulled out my Marantz VP-11S1 that I had at the time and the difference was clear. Personally, I thought there was an unacceptable amount of added image noise. The Darblet adds the extra perceived sharpness without the excess of noise and artificial look to the image. Hopefully they tweaked the RC on the HW55ES and gave the user a lot more control over how subtle you can make the RC look. Because, like I said, even the lowest setting was too much.

I've seen many, many projectors. I think Reality Creation does need to be set to the absolute lowest level or close to it, but it's incredibly effective. Heck, I watched Master and Commander on Blu-ray last night, a less-than-stellar transfer, let me tell you. With RC on and set to minimum, the movie actually looked really good in terms of detail, without adding much grain to the proceedings.

For most modern movies, TV, and all animation, it's superb. So I'm not sure exactly what settings you had RC set to when you demoed the HW50, but out of the box it's set FAR too high. Or maybe we just like different things? smile.gif

With both the Darbee and RC, you need to be careful of augmenting the film grain, that's for sure.
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Old 10-25-2013, 04:37 PM
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I think the x55/ rs4810 is good with 3d, but I'd say that the Sony has the edge (not to mention DLP).

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Old 10-25-2013, 04:39 PM
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I think the x55/ rs4810 is good with 3d, but I'd say that the Sony has the edge (not to mention DLP).


Avforums.com reviewer (whom I respect very much) on the 2 models 3D:

"Having reviewed both the HW50 and X55, I don't think there's any perceivable difference in the 3D performance, although I didn't get the chance to do a direct comparison. I'm a big fan of 3D and I was perfectly happy watching it on the X55. I know there have been some issues with the 3D on certain X35s but once the firmware is updated the performance should be the same as the X55".

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Old 10-26-2013, 06:16 AM
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I think the x55/ rs4810 is good with 3d, but I'd say that the Sony has the edge (not to mention DLP).

I have own the HW50 and now the RS4810.

No doubt in my mind, the HW50 is way better in 3D.

In 2D, no doubt either, JVC is the best.

JVC make great projector but there 3D is a bit weak, average at best. Certainly not good and not great. The 4810 is too dim for 3D.

Maybe if you have a very small screen like a 80 inch, you can do Ok.
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Old 10-26-2013, 06:37 AM
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Quote:
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Avforums.com reviewer (whom I respect very much) on the 2 models 3D:

"Having reviewed both the HW50 and X55, I don't think there's any perceivable difference in the 3D performance, although I didn't get the chance to do a direct comparison. I'm a big fan of 3D and I was perfectly happy watching it on the X55. I know there have been some issues with the 3D on certain X35s but once the firmware is updated the performance should be the same as the X55".

This just showes how biased Avforums.com is towards JVC, to say the 3D is the same on the HW50 and X55 is totally wrong and to me is a big disgrase for a site like Avforums and I don´t respect them (Phil Hinton and Steve Withers) at all!. In 2D it is a different story, but to me it is not a big differrence betweeen the two in 2D. They both have their strong and weak points.

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Old 10-26-2013, 07:33 AM
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The 3D is what I would call borderline good for the first few hundred hours of the lamp. With my unit I only noticed obvious crosstalk with subtitles. There seemed to be less flicker compared to the Sony hw50es I demoed. Overall I thought the experience of the Sony was better. It seemed to cause less eye strain even though there was a little more flicker.
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Old 10-26-2013, 01:09 PM
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This just showes how biased Avforums.com is towards JVC, to say the 3D is the same on the HW50 and X55 is totally wrong and to me is a big disgrase for a site like Avforums and I don´t respect them (Phil Hinton) at all!. In 2D it is a different story, but to me it is not a big differrence betweeen the two in 2D. They both have their strong and weak points.

That quote was from Steve Withers. I thought it was interesting (and might be helpful to the poster) that a professional reviewer was commenting on the 2 units that were in question, but I don't watch 3D so I'm on the sidelines on this one.

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Old 10-30-2013, 09:52 AM
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I've seen both projectors & spent many hours looking at them before buying my JVC 4810. I would give the edge to the Sony for brightness & 3D. For me I don't like 3D anyway & the lower image quality that it gives compared to 2D. In 2D the JVC was the clear winner. I have a 148" scope screen & it looks fantastic but I also have a darkened room with light control. The Darbee also made a significant improvement but I think that it will work equally well with either projector.

2D - JVC
3D - Sony
Contrast - JVC
Brightness - Sony

Bottom line is what you will be using it for more then anything. Every projector will have something that you gain or lose over another projector. Pick your poison! smile.gif

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Old 10-30-2013, 04:31 PM
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I've seen both projectors & spent many hours looking at them before buying my JVC 4810. I would give the edge to the Sony for brightness & 3D. For me I don't like 3D anyway & the lower image quality that it gives compared to 2D. In 2D the JVC was the clear winner. I have a 148" scope screen & it looks fantastic but I also have a darkened room with light control. The Darbee also made a significant improvement but I think that it will work equally well with either projector.

2D - JVC
3D - Sony
Contrast - JVC
Brightness - Sony

Bottom line is what you will be using it for more then anything. Every projector will have something that you gain or lose over another projector. Pick your poison! smile.gif


So true. smile.gif

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Old 10-30-2013, 04:46 PM
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I like both projectors but if the poster thought the Sony was sharp, he will be in for a sharpness treat looking at the other. There are two types of sharpness. Optical sharpness and sharpness added by processing. The Darbee improves hidden contrast and thus increases MTF which is a measure of sharpness. The RC does a bunch of things and anything but a minimal amount, and even then, starts adding artifacts that a sophisticated viewer will notice. One can turn up the sharpness control and make the picture look sharper but careful viewing one will see halos around transition edges. The sony scalers also will add some ringing due to the scaling process they employ. But even with that, the picture is good. Sooner of later I will get a Lumagen 4K scaler which is ringing free and then the Sony RC control can be set to on but O and the picture improves without visible artifacting.

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Old 10-30-2013, 06:43 PM
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Sooner of later I will get a Lumagen 4K scaler which is ringing free and then the Sony RC control can be set to on but O and the picture improves without visible artifacting.

Just wondering mark: How would the picture improve with the RC set to 0? Are you talking strictly about the Lumagen being a better upscaler than the Sony's internal scaling?

I know another member has said the Sony benefits from being sent upscaled 4K from a lumagen so it's RC control then defaults to 0 allowing you to start dialing it up more judiciously than it defaults to when fed 1080p. But you seem to be talking about the image improving with RC totally off, which has me curious why. (I've probably misunderstood something).
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Old 10-30-2013, 07:06 PM
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Rich. It's not off at 0. It's off when you have it set to off. Its at resolution sharpening at minimum when its on and set to ). evidently when the Sony is doing the scaling to UHD, perhaps because the Sony scaling is not ring free, the 0 setting is even too much. When the Lumagen does the scaling, its ring free, and the interaction with 0 resolution enhancement is not too much. Exactly what is best, for me, will have to await me getting a UHD or 4K out Lumagen. If its unrelated to the Sony scaling, then perhaps the RC acts differently when it receives external UHD or 4K scaling or native UHD or 4K. I don't know yet. Hopes this helps. We are all still in a learning curve, or in honor of the world serious, a fast ball or changeup. Hope this helps at least a little.

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Old 10-30-2013, 07:09 PM
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