Home Theater - some general equipment questions with a focus on PC gaming. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 15 Old 10-25-2013, 06:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi Guys

I have been reading the forums for a few months, whilst my new house has been being built.

Sorry for the double post in the other section, I misread the area I was in.

My wife got the house, and I got a PC room and a Home Theater in our Basement.

Before I get to my question let me tell you what I have so far.

27 feet x 16 feet basement.
14 feet x 16 feet PC room at the end of my basement.

I have conduit in the walls to run audio and video from my PC room to my AV Receiver and from the Receiver to the Projector.

Speakers:

LCR:

3 x KL-6504-THX In-Wall Speaker

Surrounds:

4 x CDT-5800-C II In-Ceiling Speaker

AV Receiver:

Sony STR DA5800ES

Screen (not purchased yet):

My intention for the screen is the Screen Innovations Black Diamond Zero Edge Fixed Frame Screen 110" 1.4 gain. The basement is also the play area for my two young boys, so I wanted a screen that could be usable whilst there are lights on.

My gaming PC (at least the important parts of it):

Intel i7-980X Extreme Edition
24Gb RAM
4 x 256Gb Crucial RealSSD - RAID 0.
2 x Nvidia 590 GTX
30" Dell 2560 x 1600 Monitor

I normally upgrade my PC in September of every other year, but I skipped this upgrade cycle as we just had a baby; so I have the ability to upgrade my PC when/if necessary.

Projector (not ordered yet)

I had originally planned on getting a Sony HW50ES, until a 4K projector came below $10,000.
As the 600ES looks like it will be above that for a while, I am not sure if I want to spend the extra 5K.
And then add HW55ES in to the mix.

Questions:

1. When/Where will there be data on the Sony HW55ES AND HW600ES for gaming latency. I have done some googling and found nothing thus far.

2. I will need to run one 50 foot HDMi cable from my PC room to the Receiver, will there be any issues sending a 4K signal that far? Or for that matter a 2K signal. Or should I wait until HDMi 2.0 cables are available?

3. I like that the HW600Es is HDMi 2.0 ready, so I would have the option of 2160p60. Do you guys think that my PC would be up to pushing 60 FPS at that resolution?

4. Would you recommend a different screen? If so, why?

5. Gaming is my primary concern, but I will use it more for watching TV. Do you think going 5 grand over my budget is worthwhile to get the 4k capability? If not, would you pick the 55ES or the 50ES to fill the gap until the 4K pricing comes down?
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post #2 of 15 Old 10-26-2013, 04:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Did I break a posting rule that I didn't notice in the guidelines, or does no-one know the answers to my questions?

Thanks

Stew
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post #3 of 15 Old 10-26-2013, 05:38 PM
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1. Probably by the end of next month.

2. Yes, huge issues. You'll want to buy a active HDMI booster/cable. There are no such things as an "HDMI 2.0" cable. All the HDMI cables are the same in regards to pins and wiring. What differs is how they're insulated and how the copper is treated and run through the cable. When done right you can send a signal longer without signal dropout.

3. No, your PC is not powerful enough to get anywhere near 60fps at 4K resolutions in most modern games. My GTX 690 isn't either. You're going to need a lot more RAM on your cards and a lot more horsepower. At 4K you're pushing almost 5 million more pixels over your Dell 30". You may want to consider 3 GTX Titans in an SLI configuration.

4. If you know ambient light is going to be in the room, the black diamond is a good choice. Though for reference viewing it's isn't the greatest. There's quite a bit of texture to the screen.

5.) Go with the 50ES, It's an okay choice for gaming. There are several DLPs that have even lower input lag times. DLP is also better for motion (less smear) which can come in handy for FPS games. Don't bother with the 55ES. I don't think it's worth it over the 50ES.
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post #4 of 15 Old 10-26-2013, 06:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks brother Seegs. AVS is a sort if fraternity, right? I am from Scotland, but living in MN; so I am trying to pick up American sayings.

Could you provide me a link for the active/booster HDMi set up? When I googled it I got a large number of links.

I noticed some links for fiber optic and HDBaseT, would either of these provide the necessary bandwidth?

My AV conduit runs passed the crawl space under the stairs. I could move my AV equipment to a rack in the wall. That could shorten the run to about 8 feet.

Would currently available cables be adequate then?

When I said HDMi 2.0 cables, I meant cables that supported the new specification including bandwidth up to ~18Gbps. The calculator I looked at suggested I need 17.92Gbps. I am aware I can not buy them today, but the rep at my local AV cable store told me his boss was in Chaina discussing purchasing HDMi 2.0 supported cabling.
Am I correct in saying that 2.0 cables would be fine?
Should these be on sale within the next 10 week?
I have 4 weeks to wait on latency data and then 5-8 weeks for delivery if I pick one of the new models.

If I go the 50ES route. Will current cables be fine over 50 feet for a 1080p signal?

I don't mind updating my PC to have 2160p60 gaming option available to me. I had been planning for the 800 series Nvidia cards to be released as well as the post 4000 series Intel Extreme Edition processor.

Are there alternative screens I should have a look at, that also have good response in rooms that have lighting?

Thanks once again for the input.
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post #5 of 15 Old 10-26-2013, 09:22 PM
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post #6 of 15 Old 10-27-2013, 05:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Here are some pics of what I have done thus far.

My original lay out plan.



The drawings used for framing the HT wall. Yes, this is a screen shot taken from a power point. My skill at not being skilled is legendary in my household.




No Walls Yet.





Walls Added



Speakers installed and walls painted.


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post #7 of 15 Old 11-05-2013, 06:16 PM - Thread Starter
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One follow up question.

Is there a huge difference in quality of hdmi cabling?

Someone I work with suggested if the cable rating on monoprice is the same as the audioquest cabling then I will have the same performance.

I wasn't sure on this as there was quite the difference on the pricing.

Thanks once again

Stew
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post #8 of 15 Old 11-05-2013, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akumastew View Post

One follow up question.

Is there a huge difference in quality of hdmi cabling?

Someone I work with suggested if the cable rating on monoprice is the same as the audioquest cabling then I will have the same performance.

I wasn't sure on this as there was quite the difference on the pricing.

Thanks once again

Stew

I think it only really matters once you go past roughly 10 feet in length. If you want to send 3D, or other higher bandwidth content, to a projector with a 15+ foot HDMI cable you're going to need to make sure it's a well constructed HDMI cable otherwise you run the risk of having A/V cut outs,complete signal loss and/or momentary artifacts in your audio and video content. If it's a short HDMI cable you're far less likely to run into issues so the quality of the cable matters less.

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post #9 of 15 Old 11-05-2013, 06:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks again Seegs.

My projector cable will be 25 feet or so.

My TV, blu ray etc will only be 3 feet or less to the receiver.

My PC room will be 50 feet or so. (This one is a real concern for me). I certainly don't mind spending a lot on this one to make sure it works.

If you have a moment could you reply to any of my follow up questions that I had posted in reply to your first post? (Post #4 of 8)

Stew
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post #10 of 15 Old 11-06-2013, 05:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akumastew View Post

One follow up question.

Is there a huge difference in quality of hdmi cabling?

Someone I work with suggested if the cable rating on monoprice is the same as the audioquest cabling then I will have the same performance.

I wasn't sure on this as there was quite the difference on the pricing.

Thanks once again

Stew

There can be significant differences in HDMI cable quality, but those differences cannot be determined by looking at cable price. What I mean is you can get a crappy cable that doesn't work, you can get a good cable that does work, but you don't have to spend $$$$ to get a good cable. Monoprice cables are just fine. Personally I prefer Blue Jeans Cable, but that's mainly because they do a better job educating you on their product, specifically what is and is not High Speed certified and the differences between them.

What you need to look for, in an HDMI cable, is that it is High Speed certified, and that it's certified at the length you need. That's really the only thing that matters, if it's High Speed certified it will work (barring any one off defective cable). Looking at Monoprice, the longest High Speed cable I see is 15'. I think BJC has the longest available at 25' (they'll sell you cables longer, and they'll probably work, but they do tell you that those cables weren't certified High Speed at that length). For you, with a much longer run you're probably going to need to look at an active cable, like Monoprice's Redmere cables:
http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10255&cs_id=1025506&p_id=9432&seq=1&format=2
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post #11 of 15 Old 11-06-2013, 06:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Will the redmere work if there is a wall plate at my PC room and at the wall on the way to the receiver?

If I was to add a signal booster, where should that be? I have an entry to the conduit about 15 feet in to the 50 foot run. But I would have to have some power added there.

Thanks

Stew
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post #12 of 15 Old 11-06-2013, 08:16 PM
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redmere needs to be plugged into the display. I had asked about using one with a short pigtail port saver and was told it may not work. I do not see why it would not, but the cable gets it's power from the display side so the closer it is to the display the better. Good luck!
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post #13 of 15 Old 11-08-2013, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

There can be significant differences in HDMI cable quality, but those differences cannot be determined by looking at cable price. What I mean is you can get a crappy cable that doesn't work, you can get a good cable that does work, but you don't have to spend $$$$ to get a good cable. Monoprice cables are just fine. Personally I prefer Blue Jeans Cable, but that's mainly because they do a better job educating you on their product, specifically what is and is not High Speed certified and the differences between them.

What you need to look for, in an HDMI cable, is that it is High Speed certified, and that it's certified at the length you need. That's really the only thing that matters, if it's High Speed certified it will work (barring any one off defective cable). Looking at Monoprice, the longest High Speed cable I see is 15'. I think BJC has the longest available at 25' (they'll sell you cables longer, and they'll probably work, but they do tell you that those cables weren't certified High Speed at that length). For you, with a much longer run you're probably going to need to look at an active cable, like Monoprice's Redmere cables:
http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10255&cs_id=1025506&p_id=9432&seq=1&format=2


Monoprice does have passive high speed cables up to 25 ft. in length - HERE.

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post #14 of 15 Old 01-19-2014, 01:29 PM - Thread Starter
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I got the following cables from Monoprice.

40 foot redmere for rec to proj.
60 foot redmere for PC room to Rec. I added a 6 feet HDMi extension cable and DVI to HDMi adapter. To allow use of my current graphics cards.
2 x 65 feet USB 2.0 cables.

I played a number of rounds of FPS games at 1080 resolution and had no issues with latency.

I opted for the Sony 55ES projector. Still waiting on delivery of the projector.
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post #15 of 15 Old 01-19-2014, 04:17 PM
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I use a 30ft redmere from monoprice and it works great. I originally bought a 30ft without redmere and it didn't work so the redmere should work great for you. I game on a 133" 2.35 BD Zero Edge and it's amazing. I use a Lumagen to get it to 2.35 and it seriously blows my mind every time I game playing on such a huge screen. I've been meaning to get some pics up, but I'm waiting for my ceiling mount to arrive. However, I would highly recommend seeing the Black Diamond in person before purchasing. In bright white scenes there is a slight sparkle because of the positive gain. It personally doesn't bother me because everything else looks so damn good, but you still want to make sure it won't bother you. The 55ES is awesome when I saw it on demo, that is gonna look sick.
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