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post #31 of 44 Old 10-31-2013, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

How about 2.7 gain. Black Diamond Electric.

I was thinking they were retroreflective with a gain that high. How much would a screen in that size and aspect ratio cost, though? I'd make a wager it's more than his entire budget for the projector and anamorphic lens.

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post #32 of 44 Old 11-01-2013, 01:54 AM - Thread Starter
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I asked Dennis for some advice - I trusted him with my room design (and he did a terrific job), and one of the posters suggested I asked for a recommendation. I don't know why I didn't think of that myself.

Dennis agreed with some of the earlier posters (that said the JVC would not be bright enough for a room my size). His advice was that for acceptable performance (incl 3d) on my screen / room dimensions ( 1.1 gain / AT screen / 5.6M throw and 3.04 wide screen), I would want at least 2400 lumens. He pointed out only 2 models of projectors in my price range that would do that. Epson was one. Panasonic the other.

After work today I drove down to one of the local stores, and they just happened to have an AE8000 hooked up to a screen about 10% bigger than mine, along with around a 5M throw distance. The demo unit had 500 hours on the bulb, and the 2D performance was pretty good in Cinema I mode, though I thought it could have been brighter. The room was in the basement - so fully blacked out with no windows.

I asked them to put some 3D content on, and as soon as I popped the glasses on, the picture was so dim you wouldn't bother watching it. If that was what I should expect - I think I wouldn't bother at all with 3D.

I don't think the salesmen new much though, because I asked him if the projector would automatically engage a brighter lamp mode in 3D to compensate (I read in the JVC manual that it does this). While his response said yes, he popped up the onscreen menu, and it was clear that it was still in cinema I mode. I asked him to turn it up to Dynamic mode so that I could evaluate the 3D performance in a higher lamp mode, and the difference was night and day. The 3D all of a sudden was watchable - though I'm still not sure I liked it more than my ST50 plasma upstairs. The screen also hadn't been calibrated so I think the Dynamic colors were throwing me off a bit..

A few years ago I had the good fortune to host Joel Silver while he ran a class for professional calibrators, and I have an appreciation for how meticulously they pay attention to calibrating screens. It made me wonder if I kept the projector in one of these high lamp modes and calibrated that mode - whether it might just be the best compromise for my budget, and just life with going through bulbs a bit quicker.

It also lead me to wonder why no one makes a pair of projectors with lens zoom that could be linked together and used for 3D mode with polarized glasses...seems to me having twice the light sources would solve the brightness problem, and some of those lenses are as much cost as another projector.
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post #33 of 44 Old 11-01-2013, 02:02 AM - Thread Starter
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The high gain screen is not a bad suggestion, but it would require a redesign of the room, which I'm not keen to do.

I've already built an AT screen with my center channel placed directly behind the screen. My understanding in the AT space is that there aren't many high gain options.
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post #34 of 44 Old 11-01-2013, 03:31 AM
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I think Dennis is a little misinformed about the two models he recommended. Both are no where near that bright once you calibrate them. Yes, the Epson does have a mode that's around 1800 lumens which is probably the mode you saw, but is no where near accurate with color. If I remember correctly, most are getting 1100 lumens calibrated (maybe less) but don't quote me on the calibrated number as it's been a while since I've paid attention to the Epsons. Also, if you can swing it, don't choose a 3LCD model like the Epson and Panasonic. They are good budget performance projectors, but as far a overall image quality goes I don't think 3LCD can hold a candle up against a good LCoS model or DLP. With that said it may be the only model out there in your price range that's bright enough, even if it isn't going to be color accurate. You may be forced into this decision.

If you liked the Epson go with it. It does throw a nice image don't get me wrong and it may be one of the only options in your price range, but there tons of other options (though less bright) that throw a much nicer image overall. If you can, rethink the higher gain screen. Try to make it work as it will widen your options. Also, if you do choose to go the Epson route, you'll have to get the higher up model (the 6xxx series) to get the projector to work with an anamorphic lens. The 5xxx series models don't offer a vertical stretch mode to accommodate an anamorphic lens. The 6xxx series is basically the same projector but with a few software added features like the anamorphic lens support and a different color chassis. Though depending on what other components you buy, one may have a vertical stretch feature built in. Some blu-ray players (Oppo BD Players for example) have this feature and so do most video processors. Just some food for thought. smile.gif

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post #35 of 44 Old 11-01-2013, 02:19 PM - Thread Starter
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the one I saw was the panasonic - it wasn't as color accurate as I'd like in dynamic mode, but it might be the only reasonable trade off given my budget / screen size. Hopefully I can calibrate the dynamic mode a little to make it more reasonable, and maybe get one of the other modes like Cinema2 perhaps bright enough for 2D.

Then review things in 3 yrs and see if there's a better model out there - compared to the Epson I don't need to buy a lens, so it will make it even easier to upgrade in a few years when something better comes out. the technology is improving all the time.
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post #36 of 44 Old 11-01-2013, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

I was thinking they were retroreflective with a gain that high. How much would a screen in that size and aspect ratio cost, though? I'd make a wager it's more than his entire budget for the projector and anamorphic lens.

You would lose the bet. smile.gif

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post #37 of 44 Old 11-01-2013, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by dsiroky View Post

the one I saw was the panasonic - it wasn't as color accurate as I'd like in dynamic mode, but it might be the only reasonable trade off given my budget / screen size. Hopefully I can calibrate the dynamic mode a little to make it more reasonable, and maybe get one of the other modes like Cinema2 perhaps bright enough for 2D.

Then review things in 3 yrs and see if there's a better model out there - compared to the Epson I don't need to buy a lens, so it will make it even easier to upgrade in a few years when something better comes out. the technology is improving all the time.

Your best bet at your price point would be an Epson 5030, CineVista lens and a Lumagen Mini 3D. Brightest option out there that throws a decent image and with the lens, your scope 3D will be brighter than anything else at this price point.

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post #38 of 44 Old 11-01-2013, 06:36 PM
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What screen has a gain of 2.3, is angular reflective, and is made so it can roll down? I don't think there is a screen out there with such attributes. He's far better off getting a single high gain screen. If he's interested in 3D (which is clearly evident) he's going to want to steer clear of the JVC. After a few hundred hours it's crosstalk hell. I'm hoping my X55R holds out a bit longer than that. At 50 hours on this lamp you only make crosstalk out clearly with subtitles. But as far as eye strain and viewer fatigue goes DLP is the way to go especially if you plan on viewing more than a few hundred hours worth of content on each bulb. There needs to be a compromise somewhere or he's going to need to up his budget. As much as this forum loves JVC, their projectors will not fit every situation and this is definitely one of those where it doesn't fit well. One of the variables in this equation needs to change for it to work out.

Vutec has a 2.2 gain that is just about to be released, DnP has a 2.3 and Stewart's Black Diamond 2.7 are options all angular reflective and can roll up. I see the OP has said he has a AT screen now, so that's it for my suggestions he has too many variables against the grain. I believe the highest gain AT screen out there
is 1.3 and that is not even 1.3 measured gain.

The only options I see are two cheaper stacked projectors or get the Epson 5030 and the cinevista anamorphic lens. 3D still will not be great with a screen that size especially with the one Epson. I'd say stacked is the only way now, you'll just have to put up with the calibration process often . If you can afford to squeeze another $40,000 into your
budget there are some pretty great options biggrin.gif
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post #39 of 44 Old 11-01-2013, 07:45 PM
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Vutec has a 2.2 gain that is just about to be released, DnP has a 2.3 and Stewart's Black Diamond 2.7 are options all angular reflective and can roll up. I see the OP has said he has a AT screen now, so that's it for my suggestions he has too many variables against the grain. I believe the highest gain AT screen out there
is 1.3 and that is not even 1.3 measured gain.

The only options I see are two cheaper stacked projectors or get the Epson 5030 and the cinevista anamorphic lens. 3D still will not be great with a screen that size especially with the one Epson. I'd say stacked is the only way now, you'll just have to put up with the calibration process often . If you can afford to squeeze another $40,000 into your
budget there are some pretty great options biggrin.gif

Several options for AT screens with gain higher than 1.3. All of them are made by Stewart. Microperf Ultramatte 150 or 200, VideoMatte 200 or Reflections 3D. Still say with a 6k budget the Epson 5030, CineVista and Lumagen.

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post #40 of 44 Old 11-01-2013, 08:18 PM
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Several options for AT screens with gain higher than 1.3. All of them are made by Stewart. Microperf Ultramatte 150 or 200, VideoMatte 200 or Reflections 3D. Still say with a 6k budget the Epson 5030, CineVista and Lumagen.

+1 , I guess the Lumagen is necessary to stretch the content for the anamorphic lens.
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post #41 of 44 Old 11-01-2013, 08:31 PM
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+1 , I guess the Lumagen is necessary to stretch the content for the anamorphic lens.

Yes and the Lumagen will do a better job stretching the image for the lens and rescaling back to 16:9.

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post #42 of 44 Old 11-03-2013, 10:50 AM
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Yes and the Lumagen will do a better job stretching the image for the lens and rescaling back to 16:9.

Hey Mike
I'll be looking for the Lumagen that can stretch 4K 3D when it is available. Will the Oppo players be able to do this too btw? I have a off the shelf Sony 3D Blu Ray player
not sure if that is a weak link in my system. The Sony model # is BDP BX- 58 .

I'm going to try the 500ES with anamorphic first to see how that works with what I have. Next will be the Lumagen or other when available and or a new Oppo. I'll take my
time with screen selection some time during the new year. I have samples on the way, I may even do a custom DIY screen yet, the guys over in the DIY screen section are
"claiming" the paint on product and process they have is superior. We'll see.....
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post #43 of 44 Old 11-03-2013, 12:01 PM
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Hey Mike
I'll be looking for the Lumagen that can stretch 4K 3D when it is available. Will the Oppo players be able to do this too btw? I have a off the shelf Sony 3D Blu Ray player
not sure if that is a weak link in my system. The Sony model # is BDP BX- 58 .

I'm going to try the 500ES with anamorphic first to see how that works with what I have. Next will be the Lumagen or other when available and or a new Oppo. I'll take my
time with screen selection some time during the new year. I have samples on the way, I may even do a custom DIY screen yet, the guys over in the DIY screen section are
"claiming" the paint on product and process they have is superior. We'll see.....

I am interested in the Lumagen myself, so will be keeping up with that one. Oppo would need to develop an all new machine if it is going to process 4K BD. As far as DIY painted screens, it is not easy to get uniformity and if you are using a wall, then the problem is always, flatness. Pull a string across a 10' section of wall and see just how flat it is.

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post #44 of 44 Old 11-03-2013, 12:47 PM
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I am interested in the Lumagen myself, so will be keeping up with that one. Oppo would need to develop an all new machine if it is going to process 4K BD. As far as DIY painted screens, it is not easy to get uniformity and if you are using a wall, then the problem is always, flatness. Pull a string across a 10' section of wall and see just how flat it is.

Ok, I'm sure you'll advise when the Lumagen is looming wink.gif

If I make my own screen I will make a new surface and or make the screen up separately and install. Would rather do this as I can make a "perfect" screen surface and spray paint the same in a proper paint booth.
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