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post #1 of 44 Old 10-28-2013, 12:59 PM - Thread Starter
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I've got a challenge to identify the right projector for my room

Room plans are below

SProsc.pdf 41k .pdf file
SELEVATIONSRev1.pdf 223k .pdf file

Essentially the screen is 304.8cm wide (120")
Throw distance is 557cm (219") - a little further than indicated on the picture (lens is flush with soffit edge)
Projector height is about 2" above top of screen.

First thought was to use the AE8000.
  • Pros - cheapest option because it doesn't require an A-Lens
  • Cons - need to rebuild the rear projector shelf/housing to lower it so that the lens is below the screen
  • Unknown - concerned 3D mode brightness may not be sufficient for the screen size and throw distance

Then I considered going pure 2D and getting a brighter projector like the Vivitek H5080
  • Pros - bright calibrated lumens, and cost isn't as high as a Sony with A-Lens
  • Cons - no 3D - not sure I can get past this one.
  • Unknown - might be brighter than the panasonic in 2D mode, but maybe the panasonic in 2D mode is sufficient brightness

I then considered the Sony HW50, and the new VPL-HW55
  • Pros - bright calibrated lumens
  • Cons - cost of A-Lens to pair on top of higher base cost of the projector
  • Unknown - will 3D brightness be acceptable

Would love your feedback - particularly if you have a lens suggestion/projector suggestion that will work well with the dimensions of the room I have to work with.
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post #2 of 44 Old 10-28-2013, 03:30 PM
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What is your budget? What are your main priorities (2d, 3d, gaming, sports etc). Can you see the RBE on dlp's? What is your environment like (black roof dark walls and floor or...)?

For some reason those pdf's are not working for me so I can't see what is said in them.
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post #3 of 44 Old 10-28-2013, 11:05 PM - Thread Starter
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My budget is 6K, and the room is a dedicated theater room. 7m long by 5m wide.

i don't watch any sports at all, I only watch movies and tv series which I always buy in blurry format from amazon.com

I don't have an issue with viewing DLPs.

The roof is sky blue, and the walls and carpet are dark (brown). The room has no windows, so its fully light controlled.
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post #4 of 44 Old 10-29-2013, 06:43 AM
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The JVC RS4910 is worth a look for you I think.

JVC Pro Info here:
http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/features.jsp?model_id=MDL102256

And check out this thread as well:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1486011/new-range-jvc-2014

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post #5 of 44 Old 10-29-2013, 08:54 AM
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If 6K is your budget for the projector, then you may want to consider JVC's new RS57.

The AVS preorder price will work with that budget. RS4910 should be good too, but the RS57 is claiming twice the native contrast compared to the 4910. If its in your budget, I can't see going with the 4910 over the 57.
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post #6 of 44 Old 10-29-2013, 01:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Is it the consensus that going for a higher end jvc projector with lens memory is gong to deliver a more satisfying result than a sony hw55 and anamorphic lens?
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post #7 of 44 Old 10-29-2013, 02:03 PM
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Based on your first post, you worked with the Erskine Group on the design for your theater. Have you asked Dennis/Shawn for a recommendation? They are true pros and could probably give you as good a suggestion as anyone else (and maybe supply the projector as well...then you know you're buying from a great source etc.)

If 3D is not a requirement, then in my personal opinion, the Runco LS-5 or the DPI M-Vision Cine 260 HC are your best options. Then save a little and add a panamorph lens down the line and you will have an outstanding image.

Good luck with this choice - it sounds like you have all good ideas and options here.

The Esquire Theater Construction Thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1289590
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post #8 of 44 Old 10-29-2013, 02:17 PM
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I have yet to see the runco ls5 but if everything I have heard about it is true and 3d is not a concern of yours, then I would be taking the gamble and getting one. Maybe contact avs about bstock if you want to save some money that you can put towards an a lens if needed.
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post #9 of 44 Old 10-29-2013, 07:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Good point - i'll reach out to Dennis and see what he recommends.
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post #10 of 44 Old 10-29-2013, 07:37 PM
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Ben's recommendation is great. The LS-5 is the epitome of single chip DLP performance in the under $10000 price bracket. Out of all the DLP units I've owned I haven't yet seen one that can match the overall picture quality of the LS-5. Although I'm using a JVC DLA-X55R now, there are several aspects to the image I miss that the LS-5 can do better over this JVC model. There is no perfect projector out there but I think the LS-5 stands as one heck of deal and has no real weakness as the overall image you get is staggering.
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post #11 of 44 Old 10-29-2013, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AirBenji View Post

Based on your first post, you worked with the Erskine Group on the design for your theater. Have you asked Dennis/Shawn for a recommendation? They are true pros and could probably give you as good a suggestion as anyone else (and maybe supply the projector as well...then you know you're buying from a great source etc.)

If 3D is not a requirement, then in my personal opinion, the Runco LS-5 or the DPI M-Vision Cine 260 HC are your best options. Then save a little and add a panamorph lens down the line and you will have an outstanding image.

Good luck with this choice - it sounds like you have all good ideas and options here.

Even a B-stock DPI M-Vision Cine 260 HC is way above his 6K budget and you still have to get the lens. The Runco with A-lens is also way above budget.

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post #12 of 44 Old 10-29-2013, 07:41 PM
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He could opt for the LS-3 and stay within budget if he went with something like the Panamorph UH480.
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post #13 of 44 Old 10-30-2013, 12:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the tips. The runco is a good suggestion, but I think I'd find it hard to stomach all that money on a projector/lens and then find that I can't watch a 3D movie on it.

I don't plan to watch a lot of 3D, but do feel that when you spend this amount on a projector it should have that check box.

Perhaps the new JVC's with Lens memory are a good way to go.

Do they have the same restriction as the Panasonic AE8000 which has to be mounted below the top of the screen in order for the lens memory to work properly?
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post #14 of 44 Old 10-30-2013, 12:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsiroky View Post

Thanks for all the tips. The runco is a good suggestion, but I think I'd find it hard to stomach all that money on a projector/lens and then find that I can't watch a 3D movie on it.

I don't plan to watch a lot of 3D, but do feel that when you spend this amount on a projector it should have that check box.

Perhaps the new JVC's with Lens memory are a good way to go.

Do they have the same restriction as the Panasonic AE8000 which has to be mounted below the top of the screen in order for the lens memory to work properly?

JVC's will not be bright enough for such a large screen in 3d.
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post #15 of 44 Old 10-30-2013, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmReverie View Post

JVC's will not be bright enough for such a large screen in 3d.

YMMV, i find mine more than bright enough for 3D on a 120" diagonal, matte screen. it wouldn't take much gain to achieve similar results with 120" wide. so for some ppl, it's bright enough and the darker blacks is a far greater concern
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post #16 of 44 Old 10-30-2013, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsiroky View Post

Thanks for all the tips. The runco is a good suggestion, but I think I'd find it hard to stomach all that money on a projector/lens and then find that I can't watch a 3D movie on it.

I don't plan to watch a lot of 3D, but do feel that when you spend this amount on a projector it should have that check box.

Perhaps the new JVC's with Lens memory are a good way to go.

Do they have the same restriction as the Panasonic AE8000 which has to be mounted below the top of the screen in order for the lens memory to work properly?

mine is mounted right at the top of the screen, i could have gone up about 4more inches except i needed to use the horizonal lens shift, and that greatly reduces how much vertical shift i can use. this is for 16:9, for scope format i have tons of room to spare, as the 'top' of the screen moves several inches above my physical screen.
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post #17 of 44 Old 10-31-2013, 05:03 AM - Thread Starter
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So I'm confused.... seems like there's no "right" projector to match my screen size/throw distance/desire for 3D support.

When I worked in events teams that produced events for me - we'd calibrate two projectors to project in the same space, and that would solve brightness issues. When one failed, then we'd still have one bulb working.

however - that doesn't seem to be where the consumer tech is at - at the moment. I don't think buying 2 zoom lens projectors, would necessarily solve my brightness problem, and I have no idea if the zoom lens co-ordination between two projectors would be sufficiently accurate enough to calibrate perfectly after zooming in/out a few times.

are there any viable options at the moment? or is everything a compromise and a matter of selecting which compromise you can live with.
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post #18 of 44 Old 10-31-2013, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsiroky View Post

Thanks for all the tips. The runco is a good suggestion, but I think I'd find it hard to stomach all that money on a projector/lens and then find that I can't watch a 3D movie on it.

I don't plan to watch a lot of 3D, but do feel that when you spend this amount on a projector it should have that check box.

Perhaps the new JVC's with Lens memory are a good way to go.

Do they have the same restriction as the Panasonic AE8000 which has to be mounted below the top of the screen in order for the lens memory to work properly?

No the JVC's have true lens memory, unlike Panny, which is simply shifting the scope image on the chip. The JVC's can have the center of the lens 30% of image height above the image. This is assuming no horizontal lens shift is used. So for a 45" high image, the center of the lens could be 13.5" above the image. Not suggesting you use the full amount of lens shift. Always better to use less.

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post #19 of 44 Old 10-31-2013, 06:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsiroky View Post

So I'm confused.... seems like there's no "right" projector to match my screen size/throw distance/desire for 3D support.

When I worked in events teams that produced events for me - we'd calibrate two projectors to project in the same space, and that would solve brightness issues. When one failed, then we'd still have one bulb working.

however - that doesn't seem to be where the consumer tech is at - at the moment. I don't think buying 2 zoom lens projectors, would necessarily solve my brightness problem, and I have no idea if the zoom lens co-ordination between two projectors would be sufficiently accurate enough to calibrate perfectly after zooming in/out a few times.

are there any viable options at the moment? or is everything a compromise and a matter of selecting which compromise you can live with.

Yes in some ways, you have to pick which compromises you can live with. No one projector is perfect for all of your (or anyone else's) conditions. Usually more brightness, means you are giving up black levels and contrast. If you have plenty of money, then the compromises can be less. That only apples to a small select few.

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post #20 of 44 Old 10-31-2013, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

Yes in some ways, you have to pick which compromises you can live with. No one projector is perfect for all of your (or anyone else's) conditions. Usually more brightness, means you are giving up black levels and contrast. If you have plenty of money, then the compromises can be less. That only apples to a small select few.

i'd argue spending 5x as much is also a compromise...

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post #21 of 44 Old 10-31-2013, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsiroky View Post

So I'm confused.... seems like there's no "right" projector to match my screen size/throw distance/desire for 3D support.

When I worked in events teams that produced events for me - we'd calibrate two projectors to project in the same space, and that would solve brightness issues. When one failed, then we'd still have one bulb working.

however - that doesn't seem to be where the consumer tech is at - at the moment. I don't think buying 2 zoom lens projectors, would necessarily solve my brightness problem, and I have no idea if the zoom lens co-ordination between two projectors would be sufficiently accurate enough to calibrate perfectly after zooming in/out a few times.

are there any viable options at the moment? or is everything a compromise and a matter of selecting which compromise you can live with.

The only projector that will light up that size screen for 3D will cost minimum 30,000 plus, most of the others suggested will do perfectly for 2D.

I own the Sony HW50ES I will comment on my situation only , maybe that will help.

My room: HW50ES 13.5 feet from the screen, ceiling mounted level with the top of the screen. Room is 12 feet x 30 feet theater dark 100% light controlled. My screen is a SI Solar 4K 1.3 gain ( actually measured 1.37gain) the ratio is 2.35:1 120" diagonal or 110" wideX46 high. My first row
seating is 9 feet from the screen with eye level 1/3 from the bottom. Second row seating is 14feet and eye level with the middle of the screen. I run CIH so my 16:9 image on this screen is 95" diagonal and 46" X 88". Like you I watch movies in my dedicated room most of the time
little TV/sports and even less with lights on.

Image 2D is outstanding, more than bright enough and detail amazing ,even at 6-7 feet from the screen . No improvements necessary, I'm sure this would be the same on your screen provided the screen material selected is correct.



Image 3D is acceptable but not bright enough and I am trying to improve on this as well. On a screen your size it would be impossible to light up unless you use a high gain screen material for 3D but then there are compromises for 2D in contrast. blacks and PQ.

I looked at all the options and to me there is only one option with a minimal budget and that is two screens. One selected best for 2D the second best for 3D. Keep one fixed that you use most of the time and drop the higher gain screen for 3D. The anamprphic lens will help
to gain back some lost brightness but it will not give enough brightness back to make 3D great. Besides, the HW50ES cannot stretch 3D content for widescreen using the anamorphic lens anyway, a Lumagen or other external processor would have to be purchased.

If your budget is tight and you are not too discriminating , then I believe the Epson with cinevasta anamorphic lens can be picked up for around $5000, it is about the best entry level you can get. It sure received a lot of accolades at the 2013 CIDIA convention. This and two screens
would be the bomb for entry level.

P.S. Just noticed your 6K budget. The Epson would be hard to beat, noting else would come close to getting the PJ and anamorphic lens combined with brightness and PQ. Hope the screen or screenzzzz are not in the budget , then again there are some great fixed options and manual pull down options too.

Life is always about compromise but quality is all about money, the sky is the limit as long as you have a limitless bank account too.
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post #22 of 44 Old 10-31-2013, 09:44 AM
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Yup. If you want something bright enough for 3D at this size you'll need to fork up some serious cash. Your options are to either spend a considerable amount more, drop the screen size or purchase a high gain screen if you want 3D to work at this size. Like previously mentioned, there are many options in your price range for 2D though. Personally I think your best two options would be either a low end JVC model + anamorphic lens or if you're partial to DLP, the Runco LS-3 + anamorphic lens. Either will give you amazing results.
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post #23 of 44 Old 10-31-2013, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

i'd argue spending 5x as much is also a compromise...

nothing is life is perfect, learn to be happy with good enough tongue.gif

Does not matter what price point. The word compromise always comes up. smile.gif

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post #24 of 44 Old 10-31-2013, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
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Yup. If you want something bright enough for 3D at this size you'll need to fork up some serious cash. Your options are to either spend a considerable amount more, drop the screen size or purchase a high gain screen if you want 3D to work at this size. Like previously mentioned, there are many options in your price range for 2D though. Personally I think your best two options would be either a low end JVC model + anamorphic lens or if you're partial to DLP, the Runco LS-3 + anamorphic lens. Either will give you amazing results.

His Budget is $6000 though


The Runco is $5000, the anamorphic lens + $3000-$5000.

I'm sure Mike from AVS will have some great suggestions within the budget target......right Mike??
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post #25 of 44 Old 10-31-2013, 10:04 AM
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The ls3 does 3d?
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post #26 of 44 Old 10-31-2013, 10:25 AM
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His Budget is $6000 though


The Runco is $5000, the anamorphic lens + $3000-$5000.

I'm sure Mike from AVS will have some great suggestions within the budget target......right Mike??

Thats MSRP for both.
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post #27 of 44 Old 10-31-2013, 10:26 AM
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The ls3 does 3d?

No, but in his price range he won't be able to buy a bright enough projector to fill his screen.
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post #28 of 44 Old 10-31-2013, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
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No, but in his price range he won't be able to buy a bright enough projector to fill his screen.

That is why I said the best option is a sub 5K projector ( within budget that can also do 3D as well) and two screens, one in the 1.3 gain range for 2D and a second drop down screen in the 2.3 gain range for 3D. Both screens would have to be angular reflective so he could keep the PJ in the same location as intended.
The JVC RS55 or Sony HW50ES , Epson 5020 or LS-3 maybe all good and have pros and cons. I think I would choose the JVC for the lens memory feature especially considering where he shows the unit is mounted. If the Runco has lens memory that would be the alternate choice.
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post #29 of 44 Old 10-31-2013, 07:57 PM
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What screen has a gain of 2.3, is angular reflective, and is made so it can roll down? I don't think there is a screen out there with such attributes. He's far better off getting a single high gain screen. If he's interested in 3D (which is clearly evident) he's going to want to steer clear of the JVC. After a few hundred hours it's crosstalk hell. I'm hoping my X55R holds out a bit longer than that. At 50 hours on this lamp you only make crosstalk out clearly with subtitles. But as far as eye strain and viewer fatigue goes DLP is the way to go especially if you plan on viewing more than a few hundred hours worth of content on each bulb. There needs to be a compromise somewhere or he's going to need to up his budget. As much as this forum loves JVC, their projectors will not fit every situation and this is definitely one of those where it doesn't fit well. One of the variables in this equation needs to change for it to work out.
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post #30 of 44 Old 10-31-2013, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

What screen has a gain of 2.3, is angular reflective, and is made so it can roll down? I don't think there is a screen out there with such attributes. He's far better off getting a single high gain screen. If he's interested in 3D (which is clearly evident) he's going to want to steer clear of the JVC. After a few hundred hours it's crosstalk hell. I'm hoping my X55R holds out a bit longer than that. At 50 hours on this lamp you only make crosstalk out clearly with subtitles. But as far as eye strain and viewer fatigue goes DLP is the way to go especially if you plan on viewing more than a few hundred hours worth of content on each bulb. There needs to be a compromise somewhere or he's going to need to up his budget. As much as this forum loves JVC, their projectors will not fit every situation and this is definitely one of those where it doesn't fit well. One of the variables in this equation needs to change for it to work out.

How about 2.7 gain. Black Diamond Electric.

Mike Garrett, AV Science Sales
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