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post #1 of 21 Old 11-05-2013, 02:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi folks,


I have plan to build my home theater (full light controled) for the following uses:


80% 2D movies (blueray and online)

20% gaming (not online)

10% HDTV (general shows)

 

The seating destance is from 4m to 5m ( not conformed yet).

Target screen is a 2.35:1 Scope 130" black diamond or stewart. So Please what Projector would be the right choice for me to fit my budget which is 4K $

I am focusing on JVC RS46 and SONY HW55ES, what you think ?

 

Thanks,IB

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post #2 of 21 Old 11-05-2013, 02:35 AM
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Are you using an anamorphic lens or zooming to fill the screen? I don't think the JVC or the Sony will be bright enough to zoom on a screen this large unless the screen gain is high. With a new bulb the 50ES (the 55ES should be similar) is around 1000 lumens calibrated. If you're zooming this means you'll be getting just under 18 ftL on a 1.0 gain screen. The brightness will only go down from there. The RS46 is about 700 lumens calibrated with a new bulb. If zooming, you'll be getting around 12.5 ftL which is fairly dim by most standards. This means you're going to need either a high gain screen or an anamorphic lens (or a combination of both) to get an adequately bright image at your desired screen size. When using an anamorphic lens you're utilizing the entire LCoS chip which gives roughly 25% more light once it goes through the anamorphic lens. This means the JVC will still be a little too dim for your screen size unless you go with a higher gain screen. The Sony will be bright enough for a little while but eventually be too dim at this screen size. I'd rethink your desired screen size and go with something smaller, especially if you want to zoom to fill the 2.35:1 screen.
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post #3 of 21 Old 11-05-2013, 04:10 AM - Thread Starter
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^ Yes that exactly what i am thinking of . So if I decrease the screen size to 120' and increase the gain to 1.4 would be fairly enough to get good bright picture.
 

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post #4 of 21 Old 11-05-2013, 04:22 AM
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At that price, I would wait for the JVC DLA-RS4910…. Should have all the functions you're asking for and will look amazing with the Black Diamond 1.4.

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post #5 of 21 Old 11-05-2013, 04:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiojan View Post

At that price, I would wait for the JVC DLA-RS4910…. Should have all the functions you're asking for and will look amazing with the Black Diamond 1.4.

He'll most likely still want to lower the screen size a bit. Even if the new JVC is 100 lumens brighter, on the 1.4 gain screen he'll be cutting it pretty close with image brightness when zooming to fill that large of a screen. After a few hundred hours the projector will dim the lamp to a point most people would find not bright enough. I think 120" is a much safer size to go with. Either way, I'd choose the Sony HW55ES because it's much brighter and it's less to worry about when the lamp dims. The only issue is that the lens on the 55ES isn't motorized so you'll have to make adjustments when going from 1.78:1 to 2.35:1.
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post #6 of 21 Old 11-05-2013, 06:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks a lot for the quick replies.
Actually, the reason behind selecting 130" screen is to get quite larg enough image when display 16:9 in the same screen for gaming purpose and for great picture as well.
I like the lens memory on JVC ,but brightness is matters.
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post #7 of 21 Old 11-05-2013, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

Are you using an anamorphic lens or zooming to fill the screen? I don't think the JVC or the Sony will be bright enough to zoom on a screen this large unless the screen gain is high. With a new bulb the 50ES (the 55ES should be similar) is around 1000 lumens calibrated. If you're zooming this means you'll be getting just under 18 ftL on a 1.0 gain screen. The brightness will only go down from there. The RS46 is about 700 lumens calibrated with a new bulb. If zooming, you'll be getting around 12.5 ftL which is fairly dim by most standards. This means you're going to need either a high gain screen or an anamorphic lens (or a combination of both) to get an adequately bright image at your desired screen size. When using an anamorphic lens you're utilizing the entire LCoS chip which gives roughly 25% more light once it goes through the anamorphic lens. This means the JVC will still be a little too dim for your screen size unless you go with a higher gain screen. The Sony will be bright enough for a little while but eventually be too dim at this screen size. I'd rethink your desired screen size and go with something smaller, especially if you want to zoom to fill the 2.35:1 screen.

The BD 1.4 gain screen at 133" 2.35 using zoom method would give him pretty good brightness. He did not list a throw distance, but if he used 15', then he would be looking at around 16/17 FL in low and 23/24 FL in high lamp. These are using best image mode. Not bad brightness for that size screen.

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post #8 of 21 Old 11-05-2013, 08:55 AM - Thread Starter
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^ Thanks very mutch , What is your suggestion about the PJ .do you think the rs46 would look the same on BD 133" screen.
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post #9 of 21 Old 11-05-2013, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by ibmhsa View Post

^ Thanks very mutch , What is your suggestion about the PJ .do you think the rs46 would look the same on BD 133" screen.

With a full light controlled room, the RS46 would do well paired with the 133" 2.35 BD using zoom method. I would also consider the RS49/4910. It should be a little brighter, has the dynamic iris and has E-shift 4K.

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post #10 of 21 Old 11-05-2013, 11:01 AM
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What amount of lumens are you basing those ftl numbers on? I got 700 in best mode with high lamp power from Art's review at projectorreviews. To zoom a 133" screen would be like filling a 140" 16/9 screen. That's a screen with 58.45 square feet of space. 700/58.45. That's 11.97 ftL. Factor in the gain of 1.4 that get's you up to around 17 on a fresh bulb. I don't see how you're getting 23 or 24 ftL.
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post #11 of 21 Old 11-05-2013, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ibmhsa View Post

Hi folks,


I have plan to build my home theater (full light controled) for the following uses:


80% 2D movies (blueray and online)
20% gaming (not online)
10% HDTV (general shows)

The seating destance is from 4m to 5m ( not conformed yet).
Target screen is a 2.35:1 Scope 130" black diamond or stewart. So Please what Projector would be the right choice for me to fit my budget which is 4K $
I am focusing on JVC RS46 and SONY HW55ES, what you think ?

Thanks,IB

If you can mount the pj on a shelf behind your seating, and have it low, closer to eye level, you can do a high power screen and double your fl. Shut the iris way down on the JVC so it is not too bright and open as the bulb ages. Or you can just go with a smaller, dimmer set up...biggrin.gif

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post #12 of 21 Old 11-06-2013, 12:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:

With a full light controlled room, the RS46 would do well paired with the 133" 2.35 BD using zoom method. I would also consider the RS49/4910. It should be a little brighter, has the dynamic iris and has E-shift 4K.

 

If I jump to 4k PJ that will cost me whole set up change :( the max output I can get from the AV is 1080P. Do you know how much RS46 will cost?

 

Quote:
If you can mount the pj on a shelf behind your seating, and have it low, closer to eye level, you can do a high power screen and double your fl. Shut the iris way down on the JVC so it is not too bright and open as the bulb ages. Or you can just go with a smaller, dimmer set up...biggrin.gif

 

The problem is smaller screen is not sufficient for cinema experience, especially when you have 6*6 m space.

 

Thanks,IB

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post #13 of 21 Old 11-06-2013, 06:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

What amount of lumens are you basing those ftl numbers on? I got 700 in best mode with high lamp power from Art's review at projectorreviews. To zoom a 133" screen would be like filling a 140" 16/9 screen. That's a screen with 58.45 square feet of space. 700/58.45. That's 11.97 ftL. Factor in the gain of 1.4 that get's you up to around 17 on a fresh bulb. I don't see how you're getting 23 or 24 ftL.

I think Art's numbers are a little low on the RS46. 2D performance did not change going from RS45 to RS46, but his numbers dropped a lot, going from RS45 to RS46. Not sure what happened with Art, but the projector did not lose that many lumens.

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post #14 of 21 Old 11-06-2013, 09:06 AM
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3D improvments have been made, the RS46 is now running an RF rather than iR system for the emitter and glasses whilst the emitter now plugs directly into the rear of the RS46 unlike the RS45 emitter which was on an extension cable from projector to emitter.

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post #15 of 21 Old 11-06-2013, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by ogerveredu View Post

3D improvments have been made, the RS46 is now running an RF rather than iR system for the emitter and glasses whilst the emitter now plugs directly into the rear of the RS46 unlike the RS45 emitter which was on an extension cable from projector to emitter.

If you were responding to me, I was just addressing Seegs question regarding 2D lumen brightness of the 46,, not the differences from 45 to 46. The 46 also has less less ghosting than the 45, two additional lens memories, new lamp design and a new power supply for the lamp.

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post #16 of 21 Old 11-06-2013, 11:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Humm, I think both they look great in BD 133" 1.4 gain, anyway I will wait the new sony hw55es review to come out then I will see.
60% JVC RS46
40% SONY HW55ES
JVC has more points because of lens memory feature and less price.

Thank you all for your help.
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post #17 of 21 Old 11-07-2013, 04:44 PM
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Isn't the Black Diamond screen intended for rooms with ambient light? Why choose that for a fully light-controlled room?
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post #18 of 21 Old 11-07-2013, 06:18 PM
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I agree with ScottJ: Why a specialty gray screen if you say you have a light controlled room and want to ensure adequate brightness for a large image?

If you only have light control (can ensure all lights are off) but you have brightly colored walls or something, then the BD screen can still help with the room reflections. But if your decor isn't light colors, be careful
about your choice. Specialty gray screens like the BD screen use optical coatings to get back brightness gain on their dark gray screen material. That typically means some significant hot-spotting: from a central viewing
position the middle of the screen will be brighter, and grow darker as it moves away from the center. Typically manufacturers are quoting their gain from the brightest area. But in fact much of the screen is actually darker and giving less gain. That's why, for instance, when Stewart used to make a Firehawk material rated at 1.35 gain, higher than their white screen Studiotek 130 1.3 gain material, the white screen would look brighter
compared to it. Because it had actual 1.3 gain not just for some central portion, but over (most) of the whole screen.

So don't assume just from the gain numbers that the BD 1.4 gain will necessarily be brighter than a Stewart white screen like the ST-130. (And the BD screen will also show more screen texture on the image IF you are sensitive to such things).
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post #19 of 21 Old 11-07-2013, 07:40 PM
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What amount of lumens are you basing those ftl numbers on? I got 700 in best mode with high lamp power from Art's review at projectorreviews. To zoom a 133" screen would be like filling a 140" 16/9 screen. That's a screen with 58.45 square feet of space. 700/58.45. That's 11.97 ftL. Factor in the gain of 1.4 that get's you up to around 17 on a fresh bulb. I don't see how you're getting 23 or 24 ftL.

I think it's always better to err on the conservative side regarding lumens. One thing I've learned in 10 years of having a home theater is that projectors are never as bright as people tell you they are, and they are never bright enough. And if they are bright enough, they aren't for long. I'd go with a StudioTek 130 G3 too. Sure like mine !!

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post #20 of 21 Old 11-07-2013, 07:46 PM
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I'm like you. I'd much rather have a brighter image on a more modest size screen as opposed to having an acceptable amount of brightness (only to dim even further over time) on a much larger screen. Though, to each their own. smile.gif
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post #21 of 21 Old 11-10-2013, 10:51 PM - Thread Starter
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I would like to thank all of you guys for helping me to build my littel home theater :)

 

Quote:

Isn't the Black Diamond screen intended for rooms with ambient light? Why choose that for a fully light-controlled room?

So, do you mean I should go for light controlled instead of fully ambient light controlled to get the advantage of BD?

Quote:

I agree with ScottJ: Why a specialty gray screen if you say you have a light controlled room and want to ensure adequate brightness for a large image?

If you only have light control (can ensure all lights are off) but you have brightly colored walls or something, then the BD screen can still help with the room reflections. But if your decor isn't light colors, be careful
about your choice. Specialty gray screens like the BD screen use optical coatings to get back brightness gain on their dark gray screen material. That typically means some significant hot-spotting: from a central viewing
position the middle of the screen will be brighter, and grow darker as it moves away from the center. Typically manufacturers are quoting their gain from the brightest area. But in fact much of the screen is actually darker and giving less gain. That's why, for instance, when Stewart used to make a Firehawk material rated at 1.35 gain, higher than their white screen Studiotek 130 1.3 gain material, the white screen would look brighter
compared to it. Because it had actual 1.3 gain not just for some central portion, but over (most) of the whole screen.

So don't assume just from the gain numbers that the BD 1.4 gain will necessarily be brighter than a Stewart white screen like the ST-130. (And the BD screen will also show more screen texture on the image IF you are sensitive to such things).

 

Quote:
I'm like you. I'd much rather have a brighter image on a more modest size screen as opposed to having an acceptable amount of brightness (only to dim even further over time) on a much larger screen. Though, to each their own. smile.gif

 

Actually, from what I heard is that The BD has a great picture appearance in dark and the ability to deliver a good picture with ambient light. Still my home theater not yet finalized, so changing things is very easy. I will consider a light controlled (with white walls and décor) for now to be away from hot spot, in case of Chosen the BD screen.

Regarding the projector, I will go with SONY hw55es.

 

So, do you think the best screen to pair with this projector in light control (white walls and décor) is BD 1.4 or Stewart Studiotek 1.3 or Firehawk 1.35 ? And what is the recommendation size that will deliver a good and bright picture (2D and 3D) with 4 to 5 m seating distance.

 

Thanks,IB

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