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post #1 of 39 Old 11-10-2013, 06:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Would I be crazy to wait and hope for a Black Friday sale on the panny ae8000... Or just buy it now with the 200$ rebate?
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post #2 of 39 Old 11-10-2013, 10:01 AM
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I'd get a better projector
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post #3 of 39 Old 11-10-2013, 05:04 PM - Thread Starter
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And which one would you suggest?
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post #4 of 39 Old 11-10-2013, 05:10 PM
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Whats your budget first?
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post #5 of 39 Old 11-10-2013, 05:13 PM
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I agree. Panasonic projectors no longer offer the same kind of price to picture quality ratio they used to a few years ago and I'm really curious as to why they're still getting so much attention. I'd highly recommend an Epson 5030 over the AE8000. Unless you can get one for a fantastic price, several hundred dollars lower than the Epson's street price, I'd look elsewhere. It will have a noticeable upgrade in picture quality over the 8000.

Out of curiousity, why are you interested in the AE8000 and not something else?

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post #6 of 39 Old 11-10-2013, 05:31 PM - Thread Starter
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In trying to keep it under 3000$. One of my good friends has a panny 4000 and it's great picture quality (to me) watched many movies and hockey games. Was at my local audio video store and they have the 8000 there and that's what they really like. Watched a bit on it and it seemed nicer then the 4000. I'm really a projector newb, I just figured it was an all round good projector for a half decent dollar. Just don't like to buy something then 2 weeks later are it on sale!
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post #7 of 39 Old 11-10-2013, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caswell239 View Post

In trying to keep it under 3000$. One of my good friends has a panny 4000 and it's great picture quality (to me) watched many movies and hockey games. Was at my local audio video store and they have the 8000 there and that's what they really like. Watched a bit on it and it seemed nicer then the 4000. I'm really a projector newb, I just figured it was an all round good projector for a half decent dollar. Just don't like to buy something then 2 weeks later are it on sale!

Epson 5030 is in your budget and I would go with it over a Panny.

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post #8 of 39 Old 11-10-2013, 06:24 PM
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You can get a JVC for under $3000, if you want a used projector. Look up the RS46 and 48. Also, I hear the Mitsubishi HC5 is really good and you can get it for $1500-1600.
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post #9 of 39 Old 11-10-2013, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

You can get a JVC for under $3000, if you want a used projector. Look up the RS46 and 48. Also, I hear the Mitsubishi HC5 is really good and you can get it for $1500-1600.

I would call AVS and ask about pricing on RS46 and Epson 5030.

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post #10 of 39 Old 11-11-2013, 01:07 PM
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With that budget your search should start and end with the 5030ub, which you can get for $2600 and is superior to every other PJ in that price range, especially the 8000.
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post #11 of 39 Old 11-12-2013, 01:41 AM
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I am going to throw a spanner in the works and say go with the Panny.

And I say this as a Sony vw1000es 4K owner who also has a Panasonic ae2000 and has compared the two projectors over the best part of a year and a half with a wide variety of different source material(not just performing test patterns and light readings for a few days).

Things that the Panny has going for it:

1)
Excellent colour gradation....... the panny rivals and at times even exceeds the mighty Sony(which does have slight banding issues anyway) in this department.
Quite frankly.....if the Panny can handle the Sony in this regard.....then I am sure it can best a more humbler JVC or an Epson.

2)
0 pixel structure thanks to the smooth screen tech.Some say this softens the image but it also helps to deliver a very "filmic" look.
Any material that is derived from 35mm stock---old or new)and has been mastered in the appropriate way on BluRay(i.e not too much DNR) looks fantastic on the Panny.The Sony with its agressive reality creation upscaling can sometimes be too harsh(i.e revealing the original grain structure) on this type of material........this is not the fault of the Sony....it is merely accentuating the limitations of the source material itself.
The Panny excels here by providing the same effect as an analogue/emulsion photochemichal film duplication process would do .......as you move from original negative to interpositive to internegative to theatrical release print you get generation loss(what you lose in grain and (some)detail you gain in smoothness and eye pleasing texture.

Think of it this way:
The Sony is the equivalent of seeing a 35mm raw negative.
The Panny is the equivalent of seeing a good 4th generation 35mm release print(and some film makers have released movies with this generation loss in mind----especially older films which featured heavy optical compositing)

Movies that have been captured using digital cameras(Arri Alexa,RED or the Sony F35 ect ect) have an intrinsic sharpness to them and it is here where projectors with higher contrast ratios than the Panny such as JVC may offer a percieved increase in sharpness,
But make no mistake the Panny is no slouch here either......it reproduces this type of material very well too.

Panasonic have always delivered remarkable quality at competitive prices.

If the Ae8000(which I have not seen---but have read the reviews) has continued in the same vain as the earlier models then I can see it being excellent value for money.

By the way ......dont forget that some film hollywood makers use the Panasonic projector line in their grading suites:

http://panasonic.net/avc/projector/special/hollywood/index.html
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post #12 of 39 Old 11-12-2013, 02:04 AM
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The banding issue with your 1000ES is a specific problem with that projector only. I'm not saying other projectors in the past have never had banding issues, but the other current Sony products, JVC projectors, and more importantly, the Epson 5030 do not have that issue. You cannot make sweeping judgements based solely on your experience with the 1000ES as it is NOT a perfect projector. It has problems like any other projector and shouldn't be referenced as the standard to which all projectors need to aspire to.

Your second point about RC being too harsh is another issue that no other projector has because apart from the the Sony HW50ES/HW55ES no other projector has this technology which makes it irrelevant to this conversation. Also, smoothscreen is going to be one of those subjective things that needs to be seen first to know whether or not if you're going to like it. Personally, I know I wouldn't like it. If sitting an appropriate distance away from the screen you aren't going to see pixel structure anyways, even on something like the sharpest single chip DLP projector pixel structure won't be visible. I don't see this feature being important unless he plans on sitting particularly close to the screen where visible pixels will be an issue.

The biggest thing you're mistaken on is that the Epson actually offers an even better value proposition over the Panasonic. It isn't the other way around. Panasonic a few years ago would have offered a better value, but since the AE4000, Panasonic hasn't had a compelling product that offered more value over its similarly priced competition. Read any recent review of the 5030. There are several key areas where it's excelled even further over the fantastic 5020 which was also reviewed in favor over the AE8000, which means the 5030 is only going to be that much better still. From the reviews I've read who have seen/owned both are all in agreement that the 5030 is definitely the better buy because it's overall picture quality and feature are a definite step up over the Panasonic.

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post #13 of 39 Old 11-12-2013, 07:46 AM
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Another thing to consider: If you want to make your theater a CIH setup, I think you will find the Panasonic far more convenient for that. Zooming on the Panasonic is very easy with its motorized auto zoom.
The Epson can't do that. For me thats enough to not consider the Epson.

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post #14 of 39 Old 11-12-2013, 08:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Cih? Cough newb cough
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post #15 of 39 Old 11-12-2013, 09:37 AM
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Projectors, like many other things are highly subjective.

I would get the Panasonic if you can get it cheap enough. Better picture can be a subjective measure. I am sure there are many satisfied 8000 owners out there.

The motorized zoom/focus is a nice feature. I would be more worried about convergence if anything.

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post #16 of 39 Old 11-12-2013, 09:45 AM
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.[/quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

The banding issue with your 1000ES is a specific problem with that projector only. I'm not saying other projectors in the past have never had banding issues, but the other current Sony products, JVC projectors, and more importantly, the Epson 5030 do not have that issue. You cannot make sweeping judgements based solely on your experience with the 1000ES as it is NOT a perfect projector. It has problems like any other projector and shouldn't be referenced as the standard to which all projectors need to aspire to.

Your second point about RC being too harsh is another issue that no other projector has because apart from the the Sony HW50ES/HW55ES no other projector has this technology which makes it irrelevant to this conversation. Also, smoothscreen is going to be one of those subjective things that needs to be seen first to know whether or not if you're going to like it. Personally, I know I wouldn't like it. If sitting an appropriate distance away from the screen you aren't going to see pixel structure anyways, even on something like the sharpest single chip DLP projector pixel structure won't be visible. I don't see this feature being important unless he plans on sitting particularly close to the screen where visible pixels will be an issue.

The biggest thing you're mistaken on is that the Epson actually offers an even better value proposition over the Panasonic. It isn't the other way around. Panasonic a few years ago would have offered a better value, but since the AE4000, Panasonic hasn't had a compelling product that offered more value over its similarly priced competition. Read any recent review of the 5030. There are several key areas where it's excelled even further over the fantastic 5020 which was also reviewed in favor over the AE8000, which means the 5030 is only going to be that much better still. From the reviews I've read who have seen/owned both are all in agreement that the 5030 is definitely the better buy because it's overall picture quality and feature are a definite step up over the Panasonic.


Oh I am sure the Epson(5020 and 30) is/are excellent projectors.

I have read those reviews and whilst you are correct in saying that the general consensus favours the Epson over the Panasonic(better blacks-brighter 3D).......it is nowhere near as clear cut as you would have us believe.

In fact Art Feierman himself even qualified his analysis with this statement when he made the comparison between the Epson and the Panasonic:

That said, choose wisely. While many folks, including some other reviewers will agree with my assessment(Epson better than the Panny), no doubt there will be plenty of folks (and other reviewers) who will find the Panasonic to be the better fit.

http://www.projectorreviews.com/projectors/pt-ae8000_vs_hc5020/bottomline.php

Feierman would hardly be saying the above if the Epson was so superior.....catch my drift?


And Bill Livolsi from projectorstore had this to say:

For 2D:
The 5020UBe has a slight black level advantage over the AE8000. Both projectors have sufficient brightness, excellent color, and razor-sharp pictures. It is becoming more and more difficult to make a distinction between two projectors, especially two projectors exhibiting this high level of polish. We’re ready to call this a draw.

For3D:
Both projectors do an outstanding job of controlling crosstalk, but we were more likely to see slight crosstalk on the 5020UBe than on the AE8000.

In conclusion:
It ultimately comes down to which projector’s features have more appeal to you, as the picture you get from either one will be stellar.
http://projectorsuperstore.wordpress.com/2012/11/08/epson-5020u-vs-panasonic-ae8000u-projectorcentral-helps-you-decide/

You opined earlier by saying this
I'm really curious as to why (Panasonic projectors) they're still getting so much attention

I have an answer.

It is because they are bloody good!smile.gif
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post #17 of 39 Old 11-12-2013, 09:52 AM
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Exactly, plus the Panny is quieter as well.

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post #18 of 39 Old 11-12-2013, 09:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Oh my, thanks for all the input guys! I guess it really don't matter which I go with they will both be B.a. The panny is nice with the auto controls for the lens but I doubt I'll be switching off 16:9 very often... Also I can get the epson cheaper then the panny
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post #19 of 39 Old 11-12-2013, 04:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Alright I pulled the trigger on the epson 5030!! Can't wait
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post #21 of 39 Old 11-12-2013, 08:52 PM
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Why on earth does Epson continue to make white projectors? That alone knocks them off my list.
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post #22 of 39 Old 11-12-2013, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenC56 View Post

Why on earth does Epson continue to make white projectors? That alone knocks them off my list.
http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/jsp/HomeEntProjectors/Home/ProCinema.do

2014
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post #23 of 39 Old 11-13-2013, 06:03 AM
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Why on earth does Epson continue to make white projectors? That alone knocks them off my list.

I agree. Nothing like having pay $1000 more for black plastic.rolleyes.gif

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post #24 of 39 Old 11-13-2013, 06:27 AM
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Cih? Cough newb cough

Wow. How rude. I try to offer a little perspective and you call me a "newb"? I already have a projector and I've been a member here for years, and I was trying to help you. How am *I* a newb?

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post #25 of 39 Old 11-13-2013, 06:29 AM - Thread Starter
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No no no... I'm implying that I AM the newb because I don't know what that stands for! I'll try to be more clear...
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post #26 of 39 Old 11-13-2013, 07:15 AM
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Quote:
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Alright I pulled the trigger on the epson 5030!! Can't wait

Good choice. You won't be disappointed with your decision. Please let us know your impressions once you've had time to play around with it.

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post #27 of 39 Old 11-13-2013, 07:24 AM
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Caswell. Sucks when humor doesn't translate into writing. eh? wink.gif

CIH = Constant Image Height.

at a very basic level, you use a 2:35 aspect ratio (W:H) screen size. The projector adjusts the displayed imaged to fill that screen. But the image is always the same height. So, if your screen was 48" tall, the image projected would be 112" wide for 2:35 aspect movies (112/48) and 85" wide for 1.78 aspect movies (85/48). But the screen is always 112" wide.

It eliminates the black bars on top and bottom and gives you a much more cinematic experience on 2:35 "scope" movies, but basically creates black bars on the sides for non-anamorphic content like most animated films and broadcast TV (and many other box office movies). Many people use curtains or masking on the sides to hide the "black bars", and it is much easier (IMO) to mask the sides of the screen than the top and bottom.

The Panasonic is one of the lowest priced, high contrast PJ's that you can set to adjust the image automatically, with just a preset. Most require a special add-on lens, and some can;t even support it then, such as the Epson 5030.

While I think CIH is cool, my home theaters have never supported it from a layout perspective because I want to have the largest 16:9 (1.78) screen I can for sports, and close to half my viewing is sporting events. My wall space has never allowed me to expand that 1.78 image by 30-ish percent. I may have mis-stated something technically in my summary. If you're interested, there's a whole subforum on "2:35 Constant Image Height" to check out.

Welcome to AVS - be careful you don't fall into analysis paralysis....but do your own research too. There's a reason there are so many "good" projector choices - and as a "newb", it would be hard to go wrong, as long as you are clear on the limitations of front projection in general. Realistically, the CIH issue is a key point to consider, and IMO the advantage of the Panny. But you know what they say about opinions...everyone's got one, and something else too.

Oh - and now I see you bought the 5030 - so at least you know what CIH is....

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post #28 of 39 Old 11-13-2013, 07:35 AM
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No no no... I'm implying that I AM the newb because I don't know what that stands for! I'll try to be more clear...

Sent you a PM. smile.gif

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post #29 of 39 Old 11-13-2013, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
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No no no... I'm implying that I AM the newb because I don't know what that stands for! I'll try to be more clear...

oh sheesh. Sorry! heh, now I feel bad!

Aaronh described it well. Your theater is either going to be CIH or CIW (constant image width) unless you have multiple screens. You should choose your format based on what you like to watch (or the limitations of your room size).
I personally would never go back to a CIW ( theater after having my CIH setup. It would feel odd watching regular films really large and then when watching epics having to see it on a smaller size.
At any rate CIH works better in my theater anyways because my ceiling isn't incredibly high.

Also as Aaronh mentions, the Panny's big advantage over the epson is the CIH support. If you don't care about that, then you probably made the right choice!

Cheers and sorry about the misunderstanding!
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post #30 of 39 Old 11-13-2013, 07:51 AM
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oh sheesh. Sorry! heh, now I feel bad!

Aaronh described it well. Your theater is either going to be CIH or CIW (constant image width) unless you have multiple screens. You should choose your format based on what you like to watch (or the limitations of your room size).
I personally would never go back to a CIW ( theater after having my CIH setup. It would feel odd watching regular films really large and then when watching epics having to see it on a smaller size.
At any rate CIH works better in my theater anyways because my ceiling isn't incredibly high.

Also as Aaronh mentions, the Panny's big advantage over the epson is the CIH support. If you don't care about that, then you probably made the right choice!

Cheers and sorry about the misunderstanding!

There are other aspect ratios, so not just CIH or CIW. Some have gone 2.0 so that they have a bigger 16:9 than what they would get with a 2.35, so it is not CIH or CIW. There is also CIA (constant image area.

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