3D kit recommendation for Mitsubishi HC5 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 19 Old 11-11-2013, 12:12 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Nemesis_002's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 16
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hi,

I just got my new HC5 a couple of days ago, and it looks beautiful.
I want to get a 3D kit for the projector, but still not quite clear which one should I get.

As far as I've seen there are the Mitsubishi EY-3D-EMT1 and EY-3D-EMT2H.
As well as a Trude model which seems hard to come by, and not sure which glasses are compatible.
Also there is monstervision which seems to be phased out? As well as Optoma BG-BC100B which seems identical to the Monstervision visually.

Can anyone help with the combo that yields the best results?

Thanks
Nemesis_002 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 19 Old 11-12-2013, 12:24 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Elix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Dungeon, Pillar of Eyes
Posts: 1,229
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 31
A sub-1000$ 3D DLP projector works best as 3D-kit for this projector wink.gif Believe me, you don't want to see 3D on HC5 and money spent on its 3D kits and glasses will be thrown away. Some examples of HC5's crosstalk performance:

3d-g-on-g.jpg

This is what it should look like (BenQ W7000):

3d-gg.jpg

Practically any DLP projector will give you this kind of performance in 3D.
Elix is offline  
post #3 of 19 Old 11-12-2013, 08:30 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Nemesis_002's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 16
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Wow, That's horrible.
A more able transmitter like the trude that supports better fine tuning can't solve it?
I dont see how can I install another projector in the same space. Especially the cheap DLPs that dont have lens shift.
Nemesis_002 is offline  
post #4 of 19 Old 11-12-2013, 08:10 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Elix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Dungeon, Pillar of Eyes
Posts: 1,229
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 31
You won't get substantial difference with Trude. I don't have one but I have MonsterVision 3D RF kit (transmitter + glasses). They have the same principle - delay timings and duty cycle can be adjusted. I have spent considerable time twitching with it. You may reduce crosstalk on one portion of the screen but the other portion will get even worse. Trude will be no different.
Elix is offline  
post #5 of 19 Old 11-13-2013, 11:23 AM
Member
 
SilkyAndy X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Manchester, England
Posts: 31
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
People who have actually used the trude disagree with Elix and seeing as he has never even seen it I would caution taking it as read.

The problem is however obtaining the trude. I have emailed two german sites about shipping to the UK and neither have replied as of yet.

There is lots of reason for a good or bad picture in 2d or 3d. A black and white answer on the hc5 seems a little strange considering reviews and also the picture in 2d.

We know it is unlikely to be the best 3d ever but considering my setup and the short throw i am confident the 3d will be ok, if I can ever get my hands on one.
SilkyAndy X is offline  
post #6 of 19 Old 11-13-2013, 10:46 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Elix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Dungeon, Pillar of Eyes
Posts: 1,229
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 31
If you want to buy Trude then buy it. I have spent a LOT of time choosing a projector. I really wanted it to be a universal 2D and 3D projector but after watching some Sharp XV-Z30000 I realized contrast and colors in 2D simply meant much more to me than 3D and went for HC5 (and I don't regret it). But I didn't want to dismiss 3D either. So I chose my 3D options carefully. I've read everything I could find on Trude (some German reviews and forums). Also I've read everything on MonsterVision. Those were my two options. And I chose the latter because:
a) There were reports of better performance than standard IR emitter and glasses. As were for Trude though;
b) RF is better than IR;
c) MonsterVision 3D glasses looked nice with big lenses;
d) There were some nice deals on eBay.

And these are comfortable glasses. And it can be tweaked via transmitter or computer software. You will see improvements compared to standard settings by reducing duty cycle (less brightness) and delay timings. And while some parts of the image (which you looked at while tweaking) will be quite nice, other parts of the image (lower or upper part) will look horrible (much like the pattern image I posted above). You can expect the same performance with IR glasses. If you don't believe me maybe you'll believe Zombie? http://www.avsforum.com/t/1434826/sony-hw50-benq-w7000-epson-5020-jvc-rs55-jvc-rs-46-jvc-rs4810-jvc-rs56-mini-shootout-2012-2013/4350#post_23457973 And you might expect the same performance with Trude. Now, this is only my opinion based on arguments I've stated.

I understand that I might get some negative reaction due to stating my opinion in black&white. But I spent some good year reading forums filled mostly with "gray" and politically correct opinions. Once I got a projector and saw it myself it became all clear to me, where's black and where's white. I've had a plasma of the first generation of 3D plasmas (2010) for 2.5 years and I found 3D on it more pleasing than on HC5. But by all means buy Trude and tell us your findings. I might be wrong.
Elix is offline  
post #7 of 19 Old 11-14-2013, 01:03 AM
Member
 
steak2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 48
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
That is wrong. Trude has timings for 24p content, the moster visions does not. It still has the same timings that treat 24 as it would bei 60p und this cannot be mitigated via the available adjustment. You just end up with fine tunung wrong timings with the moster vision.
steak2 is offline  
post #8 of 19 Old 11-14-2013, 04:00 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Elix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Dungeon, Pillar of Eyes
Posts: 1,229
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 31
So? 60p content looks just as horrible. And it has timings for it, right?
Elix is offline  
post #9 of 19 Old 11-14-2013, 05:00 AM
Member
 
steak2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 48
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Yes, and that is exactly the boiling point. With proper timings 24p should look better as 60p because of more time to switch states of the pixels is being available. The fact that 24p looks as bad as 60p is a proof for the fact that this upside of 24p is not exploited using the original emitter als well as the monster vision.
I also had problems watching 3D with the original emitter, but after purchasing the trude an spending some time with optimisation 3D actually looks acceptable. I checked the with some test patterns an with some 3D test video (the one from LG with the dog catching the frisbee) an the double contours spoiling the 3D effect during such scenes are significantly less. Especially for white on dark/grey ghosting, which was particularly annoying.
steak2 is offline  
post #10 of 19 Old 11-14-2013, 05:26 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Nemesis_002's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 16
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks for all your replies.

I understand that the trude will probably provide slightly better performance than the original or monstervision emitter.
The question is if it's worthwhile spending the money on it, or just giving up 3D entirely if it's not enjoyable watching 3D movies even with the trude and only passable?
Nemesis_002 is offline  
post #11 of 19 Old 11-14-2013, 05:38 AM
Advanced Member
 
armstrr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: sarnia, ontario, Canuckland
Posts: 698
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Or...if it is better to spend $750 on a dlp projector that will supposedly be magnitudes better than the best tweaked hc5/emitter combo...
armstrr is offline  
post #12 of 19 Old 11-14-2013, 05:40 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Elix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Dungeon, Pillar of Eyes
Posts: 1,229
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by steak2 View Post

Yes, and that is exactly the boiling point. With proper timings 24p should look better as 60p because of more time to switch states of the pixels is being available. The fact that 24p looks as bad as 60p is a proof for the fact that this upside of 24p is not exploited using the original emitter als well as the monster vision.
You have a point. Might there be some kind of firmware upgrade for MV3D? I'll try to find out.
Elix is offline  
post #13 of 19 Old 11-14-2013, 06:12 AM
Member
 
steak2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 48
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
The point is, that there clearly is some reason why the 3D performance of the hc5 is rather sublime out of the box, considering that the panels are actually quite fast. Some percentage of the advantage of the sony HW50 goes to the pulsing of the lampe, wihich gives some advantage in terms of blanking cylce. However that alone cannot be the only reason as when the panels shift too slow still ghosting manages to sneak in when the transitions are not finished until the pulsing/blanking process is over. The other reason should be the timings and indeed I now of no LCOS machine that is actually able to deliver an acceptable performance with 60p 3D so the only reason we see quite good 3D on actual devices is that with 24p the time to shift for the panels is substantially larger. Other devices like epson or panasonic also made some improvements without having much faster panels.


@nemesis

If found 3D with the trude enjoyable but the depends on the point of view. However I am not one of those people that actually do not see ghosting, I am quite picky with such things. That's why I was not hyppy with the 3D performance in the first place. Acceptable for me means I can enjoy 3D. I just say acceptable instead of suberp becaus that term is reserved for DLP machines. For me devices like the sony hw50 would also be judged as acceptable/enjoyable. From what I read an saw via scrrenshots however the X35 and the new epsons should still be better than the hc5 or the hw50 in terms of ghosting. The hw50 however ist brighter than the hc5 with trude in 3D because of 1700lm max output and his pulsing lamp mode.
steak2 is offline  
post #14 of 19 Old 11-14-2013, 01:40 PM
Member
 
SilkyAndy X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Manchester, England
Posts: 31
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
i am hoping for acceptable, I agree two separate PJ's would work best but that is not currently an option. I found a decent German supplier (visivo) for anyone interested and they have taken a paypal order for uk shipping.

I will let you know when it arrives.

My pal has the epson 590 which is decent in 3d so i can compare with a well regarded cheaper 3d pj.

I also have a st30b and an lg passive in the house so there will be plenty of comparisons.

I, like most who bought the hc5 only watch the odd 3d film so it is not the end of the world but I am hoping it is watchable, now to find some decent good value IR glasses!
SilkyAndy X is offline  
post #15 of 19 Old 11-15-2013, 12:09 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Nemesis_002's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 16
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I'd love to hear your thoughts about it.
Next month I'll be in Germany - so I can get it if it's reasonable.
Nemesis_002 is offline  
post #16 of 19 Old 11-20-2013, 10:30 AM
Member
 
badshah2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 129
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Can someone please confirm that the EY-3D-EMT2H emitter works with HC5 projector as well? I ask because HC5 (aka HC9000D) is an older model and EY-3D-EMT2H is a newer model of emitter which seems to have been designed for HC8000D and HC7900D.

The following listing on Amazon gives the impression as if the newer emitter (EY-3D-EMT2H) works with *all* Mitsubishi projectors. Thoughts?
http://www.amazon.com/EY-3D-EMT2H-Mitsubishi-HC9000DW-HC7800DW-HC8000d-bl/dp/B007HOG7H2

The following link also implies that the new model of emitter works with HC5....
http://www.digitalcinema.com.au/Mitsubishi-HC5-3D-PACK5-Home-Cinema-Projector-p/mitsubishi-hc5-3d-pack5.htm
badshah2000 is offline  
post #17 of 19 Old 11-29-2013, 01:10 AM
Member
 
SilkyAndy X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Manchester, England
Posts: 31
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I think the trude works very well with the sony ps3 glasses. Strangley it is set to panasonic mode not mitsubishi- which doesn't work but that is not an issue as the effects are great. Fire sparkles from the start of star trek are right in your face, as is the snow effects in hugo. The pj keeps the film like image which is why I persisted with hc5, ghosting has not been a problem on bluray but i did see iton some of the imax shows on netflix streaming- i am not sure if that is due to quality of stream or the hc5.

any help from trude owners who understand the limited german informatin online to tweak it would be most appreciated, i have evrything at stock at the minute with trude set to panasonic (b1)
SilkyAndy X is offline  
post #18 of 19 Old 01-22-2014, 01:44 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Nemesis_002's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 16
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I just got my trude emitter, and some PS3 glasses.
It doesnt look nearly as bad as the photos posted, actually it looks rather good with 3D blu-ray content. Haven't tried anything else.
I wonder if anyone can recommend more comfortable and perhaps brighter glass than the PS3 ones? After a while the plastic is really digging into my ears.
Nemesis_002 is offline  
post #19 of 19 Old 01-22-2014, 02:23 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Elix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Dungeon, Pillar of Eyes
Posts: 1,229
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 31
Check out the BitCauldron BC6000 which is an updated version of BC5000 (or MonsterVision RF, or Optoma RF, or other various rebranded versions of the same glasses): http://www.bitcauldron.com/bc6000.html
Also check out these Volfoni glasses, which could be considered hi-end (looking at specifications): http://www.volfoni.com/en/products/active/glasses/edge-rf
Elix is offline  
Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

Tags
Mitsubishi Hc5

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off