VPL-VW1000ES and HTPC at 4k (native rez) - Page 9 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #241 of 261 Old 03-23-2015, 03:01 PM
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The GTX 970 is powerful enough for JINC upscaling and NNEDI3 chroma/luma scaling to UHD. This could be a cheaper option for those looking for a powerful MadVR scaling solution. Right now JINC and NNEDI3 provide the highest quality scaling solution consumers can use currently. Better than a Lumagen and the Sony's built in scaling.

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post #242 of 261 Old 03-25-2015, 12:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
The GTX 970 is powerful enough for JINC upscaling and NNEDI3 chroma/luma scaling to UHD. This could be a cheaper option for those looking for a powerful MadVR scaling solution. Right now JINC and NNEDI3 provide the highest quality scaling solution consumers can use currently. Better than a Lumagen and the Sony's built in scaling.
Yeah I had my sights set on moving to a 970 in at least one of my htpcs, but I think I won't hurt to wait till the next gen AMD's come out. Particularly as I'm easily a month off from my main HT is rebuilt in new room and have an 8802 with 4K passthrough in place to handle UHD scaling properly.

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post #243 of 261 Old 03-25-2015, 11:35 AM
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Seegs have you or anyone with a vW1000 / 1100 played around with madVR's 3dlut calibration? I am wondering how much of an improvement it might be together with the latest Calman and my Colormunki spectro vs a Lumagen and the Calman/colormunki. Obviously it would only be for HTPC content but all I watch in the theater is Blu Ray anyway.
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post #244 of 261 Old 05-18-2015, 12:48 PM
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Hi guys,
So in my journey to play games in 4k, I ended up buying 2 NVidia 980 for SLI configuration. At first I had issues with hz. I wasn't able to get 60hz when setting resolution on computer any higher that 1080. Then I purchased new HDMI 2.0 cable that supports 60Hz at 4K, connected my pc directly to projector and wallla. I can set my pc to 60Hz with 4K resolution. So now we know that PC configuration and connection to project is all set.
Now the issue comes while playing game. Game is set to Ultra mode with 4K resolution. When I take benchmark, I get an average of 70 fps and a Max of 90. So the cards are doing fine. But doing gameplay, here and there (almost every minute), I see a frame getting inserted. Its basically a line that starts from top and goes down across the screen which I'm interpreting as frame getting inserted. I"m not sure what's causing it????? Game is set to 60 fps max and VSync on. Does anyone have any idea?

thx.
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post #245 of 261 Old 05-18-2015, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post
Hi guys,
So in my journey to play games in 4k, I ended up buying 2 NVidia 980 for SLI configuration. At first I had issues with hz. I wasn't able to get 60hz when setting resolution on computer any higher that 1080. Then I purchased new HDMI 2.0 cable that supports 60Hz at 4K, connected my pc directly to projector and wallla. I can set my pc to 60Hz with 4K resolution. So now we know that PC configuration and connection to project is all set.
Now the issue comes while playing game. Game is set to Ultra mode with 4K resolution. When I take benchmark, I get an average of 70 fps and a Max of 90. So the cards are doing fine. But doing gameplay, here and there (almost every minute), I see a frame getting inserted. Its basically a line that starts from top and goes down across the screen which I'm interpreting as frame getting inserted. I"m not sure what's causing it????? Game is set to 60 fps max and VSync on. Does anyone have any idea?

thx.

In one of my response to you in the VW500/600 thread I very briefly hit on this issue. You've now effective gone OTT on GPU power there with SLI. The prob now being that you are blowing out the frame buffer with such a high frame rate as your screen 60Hz screen can't keep up with the higher frame rate causing tearing. You could try the v-sync option in whatever game you're playing, that may help. Have a read of this : http://www.tweakguides.com/Graphics_9.html

Glad to see you finally got to 60Hz with the HDMI 2.0 980's btw, I was going to mention that, but initially had forgotten about that requirement when you initially reported the you were unable to get that refresh.

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post #246 of 261 Old 05-18-2015, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post
In one of my response to you in the VW500/600 thread I very briefly hit on this issue. You've now effective gone OTT on GPU power there with SLI. The prob now being that you are blowing out the frame buffer with such a high frame rate as your screen 60Hz screen can't keep up with the higher frame rate causing tearing. You could try the v-sync option in whatever game you're playing, that may help. Have a read of this : http://www.tweakguides.com/Graphics_9.html

Glad to see you finally got to 60Hz with the HDMI 2.0 980's btw, I was going to mention that, but initially had forgotten about that requirement when you initially reported the you were unable to get that refresh.
Responded in 600ES thread as well but updating here for others now.

I wouldn't call it out of proportion. If you look at the specs for games for to run in 4k resolution, many fall below 60Hz. For 1080P, I agree. One 970 will do the job just fine.

Now the solution: I already had VSync on in game but it didn't do anything. So started googling around. Came across best settings for 980 (or any other high end card) using NVidia settings and there is an option to set VSync to Adaptive. Setting it to Adaptive did the job. Now the game runs flawlessly :-). Still once in a while (like once in 1/2 hour) I see it happening but one has to pay attention to know it.

Step by step Guide:
1 - Right click on Desktop and select NVidia Control Panel
2 - Click on Manage 3D Settings from left panel (2nd link from top).
3 - Under Global Settings In Right Panel, scroll down all the way to see Vertical Sync.
4 - From Vertical Sync drop down options, Select Adaptive.

All Set.


I do have 60Hz but only when I select 1080P but it goes away when I am setting resultion to 4k in Resolution section. This is because of my avr. When I connect HDMI directly from PC to projector, I can see 60Hz option. So don't know what avr (Marantz SR 6007)is doing. I went through all the video options but none make 60Hz available. Any ideas???
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post #247 of 261 Old 05-18-2015, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post
Responded in 600ES thread as well but updating here for others now.

I wouldn't call it out of proportion. If you look at the specs for games for to run in 4k resolution, many fall below 60Hz. For 1080P, I agree. One 970 will do the job just fine.

Now the solution: I already had VSync on in game but it didn't do anything. So started googling around. Came across best settings for 980 (or any other high end card) using NVidia settings and there is an option to set VSync to Adaptive. Setting it to Adaptive did the job. Now the game runs flawlessly :-). Still once in a while (like once in 1/2 hour) I see it happening but one has to pay attention to know it.

Step by step Guide:
1 - Right click on Desktop and select NVidia Control Panel
2 - Click on Manage 3D Settings from left panel (2nd link from top).
3 - Under Global Settings In Right Panel, scroll down all the way to see Vertical Sync.
4 - From Vertical Sync drop down options, Select Adaptive.

All Set.


I do have 60Hz but only when I select 1080P but it goes away when I am setting resultion to 4k in Resolution section. This is because of my avr. When I connect HDMI directly from PC to projector, I can see 60Hz option. So don't know what avr (Marantz SR 6007)is doing. I went through all the video options but none make 60Hz available. Any ideas???
You've effectively done what I just did today in buying a Titan X for my dedicated 4K gaming rig. So in most of the games out there with the one major exception being GTA V (which I bought mine for), you're going be blowing the doors off the frame so to speak with maxed settings. If it were an HTPC rig obviously we would be worrying about SLI (an acknowledgment of the true thread focus in case anyone was wondering). I know here locally my Titan X cost just under the cost 2 x GTX 980's. However, it appealed to me for 4K gaming due to the 12GB memory, which has got to come in handy down the track for rendering massive textures in 4K. Also, the insane possibility now exists down the track of being able to go SLI. Plus, the single card will help avoid issues with games that don't play nicely with SLI configurations.

Good tip on the adaptive sync. I'm going to test my Titan X in min and see how it looks, if I by chance get tearing due to high frame rate, I'll give it a shot.

Really simple to solve your AVR issue. Just as you have bought HDMI 2.0 outputting GFX cards, you need a more recent HDMI 2.0 capable AVR like the Marantz SR-6009.

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post #248 of 261 Old 05-19-2015, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post
You've effectively done what I just did today in buying a Titan X for my dedicated 4K gaming rig. So in most of the games out there with the one major exception being GTA V (which I bought mine for), you're going be blowing the doors off the frame so to speak with maxed settings. I know here locally my Titan X cost me just under the cost of 2 x GTX 980's. However, it appealed to me for 4K gaming due to the 12GB memory, which has got to come in handy down the track for rendering massive textures in 4K. Also, the insane possibility now exists down the track of being able to go SLI. Plus, the single card will help avoid issues with games that don't play nicely with SLI configurations.

Good tip on the adaptive sync. I'm going to test my Titan X in min and see how it looks, if I by chance get tearing due to high frame rate, I'll give it a shot.

Really simple to solve your AVR issue. Just as you have bought HDMI 2.0 outputting GFX cards, you need a more recent HDMI 2.0 capable AVR like the Marantz SR-6009.
You know I did think about Titan X and yes the ability to run it in SLI in future is very promising. I ended up getting my 980 each fro 420.00. Even then I keep on thinking if I should get Titan X instead. You are absolutely right that 4K requires more VRam. So Titan X gives way more than needed. Also keep in mind that there are roumors that Diract X 12 will allow to utilize VRAM completely in SLI mode. In other words, DX 11 allows only 4 GB in SLI even when each of the cards indivisually have 4 GB. In total we have 8GB of VRam but DX 11 can use only one card memory. DX 12 might change that. But then again its a roumor.

I still have time to replace my cards. I might go with Titan X :-). Time to check some benchmarks :-). I personally think that Titan X in SLI will go a long way (2 Years may be and even more) to cover majority of games demands.

Then there is AMD 390X coming in Mid June with HBM Ram. According to AMD, 390X is specially designed for 4K gaming. They will be releaseing first batch with 4GB and the next one with 8GB. All the release dates are roumors though.

Quote:
Really simple to solve your AVR issue. Just as you have bought HDMI 2.0 outputting GFX cards, you need a more recent HDMI 2.0 capable AVR like the Marantz SR-6009
I searched to see of Marantz SR 6007 support HDMI 2.0 but counldn't find anything. Where did you read that SR6007 does not support 2.0?
Thanks
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post #249 of 261 Old 05-19-2015, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post
You know I did think about Titan X and yes the ability to run it in SLI in future is very promising. I ended up getting my 980 each fro 420.00. Even then I keep on thinking if I should get Titan X instead. You are absolutely right that 4K requires more VRam. So Titan X gives way more than needed. Also keep in mind that there are roumors that Diract X 12 will allow to utilize VRAM completely in SLI mode. In other words, DX 11 allows only 4 GB in SLI even when each of the cards indivisually have 4 GB. In total we have 8GB of VRam but DX 11 can use only one card memory. DX 12 might change that. But then again its a roumor.

I still have time to replace my cards. I might go with Titan X :-). Time to check some benchmarks :-). I personally think that Titan X in SLI will go a long way (2 Years may be and even more) to cover majority of games demands.

Then there is AMD 390X coming in Mid June with HBM Ram. According to AMD, 390X is specially designed for 4K gaming. They will be releaseing first batch with 4GB and the next one with 8GB. All the release dates are roumors though.



I searched to see of Marantz SR 6007 support HDMI 2.0 but counldn't find anything. Where did you read that SR6007 does not support 2.0?
Thanks
In doing my own benchmarks in GTA V yesterday, with everything turned on, i was able to slow the even slow the Titan X down to low 20's min frame rates. This was with running MSAA and TXAA, which I then turned off, resulting in still not high frame rates, but 30's - mid 40's. It was playable like that but really went to show that it is possible to overwhelm the current best single cards with 4K. So Titan X SLI may not be such an insane (except for cost of implementation right now) thing down the track. So my advice if you have GTA V, throw some benchmarks at you 980's to see what they do.

Yes the next gen AMD ATI is very much on my mind for HTPC and has been for a few months. While I haven't gamed with a Radeon for a long time, the 3XX series could be game changer so to speak. It's only a few weeks till Computex Taiwan till we find out about them.

With the 6007, its very simple, no HDMI 2.0 chipsets were available till late last year. The first Marantz to have HDMI 2.0 was the 6009. The next issue for AVR's is HDCP 2.2, which is only just being rolled out now in models like the 8802 AVP. This is going to be need to UHD Bluray and if you already have a Sony FMP-X10 and decide you really have to run it via an AVR/AVP.

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post #250 of 261 Old 05-20-2015, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post
In doing my own benchmarks in GTA V yesterday, with everything turned on, i was able to slow the even slow the Titan X down to low 20's min frame rates. This was with running MSAA and TXAA, which I then turned off, resulting in still not high frame rates, but 30's - mid 40's. It was playable like that but really went to show that it is possible to overwhelm the current best single cards with 4K. So Titan X SLI may not be such an insane (except for cost of implementation right now) thing down the track. So my advice if you have GTA V, throw some benchmarks at you 980's to see what they do.

Yes the next gen AMD ATI is very much on my mind for HTPC and has been for a few months. While I haven't gamed with a Radeon for a long time, the 3XX series could be game changer so to speak. It's only a few weeks till Computex Taiwan till we find out about them.

With the 6007, its very simple, no HDMI 2.0 chipsets were available till late last year. The first Marantz to have HDMI 2.0 was the 6009. The next issue for AVR's is HDCP 2.2, which is only just being rolled out now in models like the 8802 AVP. This is going to be need to UHD Bluray and if you already have a Sony FMP-X10 and decide you really have to run it via an AVR/AVP.
Good point about 6007. So now I need a 2.0 HDMI compatible avr. But in my case, it gets more challengin that this. I'm using DDRC-88A from miniDSP as my audio processor. So basically, all audio processing in avr is disabled and avr is only doing the Bass management (cross-over settings). Then using pre-out, it is connected to DDRC-88A which uses Dirac to do all the audio processing. Then this ouput is given to AMP and then goes to speakers.

Therefore in my case, I'm going to need avr that not only supports HDMI 2.0 but also has a 7.1 pre outs :-(. This avr won't be cheap to buy.

Yep the card is coming in Mid june but only 4GB version and later 8GB version.
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post #251 of 261 Old 05-20-2015, 05:46 PM
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Good point about 6007. So now I need a 2.0 HDMI compatible avr. But in my case, it gets more challengin that this. I'm using DDRC-88A from miniDSP as my audio processor. So basically, all audio processing in avr is disabled and avr is only doing the Bass management (cross-over settings). Then using pre-out, it is connected to DDRC-88A which uses Dirac to do all the audio processing. Then this ouput is given to AMP and then goes to speakers.

Therefore in my case, I'm going to need avr that not only supports HDMI 2.0 but also has a 7.1 pre outs :-(. This avr won't be cheap to buy.

Yep the card is coming in Mid june but only 4GB version and later 8GB version.

Time to consider biting the bullet and going pre-pro perhaps? The 7702 is pretty incredible for the money and you haven't got to spend a heap adding amps, Emotiva would get out of trouble there pretty cheaply. Most people would do this upgrade for ATMOS+Auro though. Although there's been a very big jump in performance from the last gen Marantz AVP's, the 7702 now goes toe to toe with the old 8801, and the 8802 is another level again in performance.

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post #252 of 261 Old 05-25-2015, 07:50 AM
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Hi Guys,
Is there any option available to split the display and sound? I'd like to send display directly from PC to projector and sound from PC to avr. Reason: my avr doesn't support HDMI 2.0 and therefore doesn't support 60fps. I'd have to buy another receiver that supports HDMI 2.0 and I'm trying to avoid that. If there is a way to split video and audio, then that'd solve the issue. Any ideas?
Thx.
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post #253 of 261 Old 05-25-2015, 07:58 AM
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If your motherboard has hdmi you can connect a hdmi from there to receiver. 2nd option can be from your graphic card 2nd hdmi to receiver if has one or with dvi to hdmi adaptor from pc to receiver but you need to get adaptor that pass also the sound
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post #254 of 261 Old 05-25-2015, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post
In one of my response to you in the VW500/600 thread I very briefly hit on this issue. You've now effective gone OTT on GPU power there with SLI. The prob now being that you are blowing out the frame buffer with such a high frame rate as your screen 60Hz screen can't keep up with the higher frame rate causing tearing. You could try the v-sync option in whatever game you're playing, that may help. Have a read of this : http://www.tweakguides.com/Graphics_9.html

Glad to see you finally got to 60Hz with the HDMI 2.0 980's btw, I was going to mention that, but initially had forgotten about that requirement when you initially reported the you were unable to get that refresh.
I've been playing The Witcher 3 in 4K w/60 fps and every option maxed out to Ultra. Haven't had any problems whatsoever. I'm using 2 EVGA GeForce GTX 780 Ti Superclocked GPUs setup in SLI. My most recent purchase, which I've been using more often than I thought I would, is the Nvidia Shield Tablet, which will stream any content from my PC, games, movies, etc. It also has a console mode, which when hooked up to my TV, streams all this content in 4K. To reduce interference, I also bought a USB LAN adapter, which hardwires into my LAN, connects to my charger, and when I plug it into the Shield Tablet, it streams 4k flawlessly. It required an additional HDMI to mini HDMI cable to use console mode and display 4K content on any 4K TV I want. I'm definitely going to get the Nvidia Shield Console whenever it comes out, which should be within a week or so.

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post #255 of 261 Old 05-25-2015, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post
Responded in 600ES thread as well but updating here for others now.

I wouldn't call it out of proportion. If you look at the specs for games for to run in 4k resolution, many fall below 60Hz. For 1080P, I agree. One 970 will do the job just fine.

Now the solution: I already had VSync on in game but it didn't do anything. So started googling around. Came across best settings for 980 (or any other high end card) using NVidia settings and there is an option to set VSync to Adaptive. Setting it to Adaptive did the job. Now the game runs flawlessly :-). Still once in a while (like once in 1/2 hour) I see it happening but one has to pay attention to know it.

Step by step Guide:
1 - Right click on Desktop and select NVidia Control Panel
2 - Click on Manage 3D Settings from left panel (2nd link from top).
3 - Under Global Settings In Right Panel, scroll down all the way to see Vertical Sync.
4 - From Vertical Sync drop down options, Select Adaptive.

All Set.


I do have 60Hz but only when I select 1080P but it goes away when I am setting resultion to 4k in Resolution section. This is because of my avr. When I connect HDMI directly from PC to projector, I can see 60Hz option. So don't know what avr (Marantz SR 6007)is doing. I went through all the video options but none make 60Hz available. Any ideas???
Install a software program called Nvidia Inspector. It allows you to customize much more that anything else on the market. Plus, it already has 200+ profiles setup that you can choose from depending on how you're using the GPUs.

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post #256 of 261 Old 05-25-2015, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post
Hi Guys,
Is there any option available to split the display and sound? I'd like to send display directly from PC to projector and sound from PC to avr. Reason: my avr doesn't support HDMI 2.0 and therefore doesn't support 60fps. I'd have to buy another receiver that supports HDMI 2.0 and I'm trying to avoid that. If there is a way to split video and audio, then that'd solve the issue. Any ideas?
Thx.
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If your motherboard has hdmi you can connect a hdmi from there to receiver. 2nd option can be from your graphic card 2nd hdmi to receiver if has one or with dvi to hdmi adaptor from pc to receiver but you need to get adaptor that pass also the sound
I don't think motherboard HDMI's will work concurrently with GPU HDMI's. I'm fair sure from past experimentation, the GPU will always override the MB's HDMI output. DVI - HDMI will not pass sound as DVI isn't designed to carry audio the way HDMI is. If you go DVI to HDMI to projector it may not pass the HDMI 2.0 or the 60Hz mode tweak available with the Nvidia Keppler 1.4a cards, But I haven't tested that myself in past as I didn't want a clumsy arrangement with my HTPC.


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post #257 of 261 Old 05-25-2015, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by rolldog View Post
I've been playing The Witcher 3 in 4K w/60 fps and every option maxed out to Ultra. Haven't had any problems whatsoever. I'm using 2 EVGA GeForce GTX 780 Ti Superclocked GPUs setup in SLI. My most recent purchase, which I've been using more often than I thought I would, is the Nvidia Shield Tablet, which will stream any content from my PC, games, movies, etc. It also has a console mode, which when hooked up to my TV, streams all this content in 4K. To reduce interference, I also bought a USB LAN adapter, which hardwires into my LAN, connects to my charger, and when I plug it into the Shield Tablet, it streams 4k flawlessly. It required an additional HDMI to mini HDMI cable to use console mode and display 4K content on any 4K TV I want. I'm definitely going to get the Nvidia Shield Console whenever it comes out, which should be within a week or so.

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You're 780Ti setup would be fine for 4K gaming in all but the extremes of say running GTA V in ultra with everything maxed out. You've got the benefit of the Nvidia 4K 60Hz tweak for their Kepler based HMDI 1.4a GPU's. They enabled 60Hz @ 4K in those cards by enabling chroma subsampling mid last year with a driver update.

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post #258 of 261 Old 05-25-2015, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post
I don't think motherboard HDMI's will work concurrently with GPU HDMI's. I'm fair sure from past experimentation, the GPU will always override the MB's HDMI output. DVI - HDMI will not pass sound as DVI isn't designed to carry audio the way HDMI is. If you go DVI to HDMI to projector it may not pass the 60Hz mode tweak available with the Nvidia Keppler 1.4a cards, But I haven't tested that myself in past as I didn't want a clumsy arrangement with my HTPC.
Seems like then that the only option is to upgrade to HDMI 2.0 avr or pre/pro.
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post #259 of 261 Old 05-25-2015, 07:00 PM
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Seems like then that the only option is to upgrade to HDMI 2.0 avr or pre/pro.
As a person who literally just landed a Marantz 8802 this morning, I would say there could be further benefits over just HDMI 2.0, namely the upgrade in sound quality to be had with the newer AVR/AVP's like in the Marantz range. I'm stoked to finally be getting back to full 4K pass-through capability, and nowadays with a card that's really properly cut out for 4K video(albeit minus 60Hz), my R290X unlike my old 7970 that used to stumble with MadVR.

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post #260 of 261 Old 05-25-2015, 07:05 PM
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As a person who literally just landed a Marantz 8802 this morning, I would say there could be further benefits over just HDMI 2.0, namely the upgrade in sound quality to be had with the newer AVR/AVP's like in the Marantz range. I'm stoked to finally be getting back to full 4K pass-through capability, and nowadays with a card that's really properly cut out for 4K video(albeit minus 60Hz), my R290X unlike my old 7970 that used to stumble with MadVR.
Agreed but things are not that simple for me. As for better sound, I need avr for only 3 things. HDMI 2.0, Bass management, and codes conversion (DTS,Atmos, etc). I have external amps for each speaker and also use miniDSP 88-a for room correction. Therefore, for me, anything else is extra that I'll be paying for and not utilizing
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post #261 of 261 Old 05-25-2015, 08:05 PM
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Agreed but things are not that simple for me. As for better sound, I need avr for only 3 things. HDMI 2.0, Bass management, and codes conversion (DTS,Atmos, etc). I have external amps for each speaker and also use miniDSP 88-a for room correction. Therefore, for me, anything else is extra that I'll be paying for and not utilizing
I wouldn't be so hard and fast that the mini-dsp with is going to totally outclass the current gen of processing in say the Marantz series. Sure I like Dirac Live too, but the feedback on the 8802 for example is indicating it's performing at levels the match much more expensive AVP's like Classe. Also, you don't lose the ability to resolve hi-res audio above 48Khz. Plus, you do get the scope to add channels for ATMOS/Auro3D if there's interest, beyond the current mini-dsp constraint (until they work out how to tie in a second unit). I personally can't wait to have a full 7.2.4 system in my new room when it's finished shortly.

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