Sony VPL-VW500ES with some pics...it's simply AWESOME! - Page 5 - AVS Forum
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post #121 of 128 Old 12-09-2013, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canary_Jules View Post

Thanks for your feedback. I'm now happy with the 3d following a calibration and reducing glasses brightness to standard. The picture is a bit dimmer as a result but crosstalk appears to be negligible. I'll need to get a High Power screen for 3d though.

The issue I was getting with my Sony glasses suffering a glitch every few minutes may have been solved by switching off my WiFi router which is my cinema room. So far no glitches when it is off. I'm monitoring the situation. The Xpands still don't work with brightness on Standard. I'll need to investigate this problem a bit more.

I did not do a "calibration" but did learn a lot about 3D settings last night . The movie The Great Gatsby 3D was perfect for making these adjustments.

First and most important is that the most significant way to reduce ghosting is to turn off motion flow all together. From the various tests I did, motion flow affected ghosting to a high degree, 3D brightness too but the difference was much less .
There are levels of sharpness, contrast and brightness that affect the cross-talk as well, you can pause certain scenes and see a ton of cross talk , then slowly adjust each setting first individually and then in combos to see the results .

At the end of the movie Gatsby, a black and white scene will change into a colored Art Deco frame work , then expands into a 3D image and credits will start rolling. If you pause about mid way into the credits and look at the framework bottom rear you will see a significant amount of cross-talk.
When making the adjustments do NOT look directly at the cross-talk image, instead, look at one of the frame intersections ( the frame lattice we are suppose to see) and use your peripheral vision to pick-up the cross-talk. Takes a bit of practice not to look at it, but when you do it right you will
notice the changes, which, when you think about it , is the way we see cross-talk anyway. Actually , there is also one more scene where a white invitation card is shown full screen with a signature hand written, in black ink. The ghost image on that was almost a mirror image of the original signature. I'm
sure if you could pause on that you would have another fantastic situation from which adjustments could be made.

Anyway, when I did this and starting manipulating the settings you will see very clearly how various settings, modes and intensities will increase or decrease the crosstalk. In the end I had a completely ghost free picture but a little darker than I would normally want. I like a brighter picture, others may
consider this level more natural I suppose. Without motion flow any actions scenes can become very blurry, I guess you have to choose your poison . If you want it bright for 3D a higher gain screen will have to do, I wonder though, will a high gain screen then make the ghosting more apparent again ? eek.gif

Dam it, this forum has turned me into the cross-talk Nazi mad.gif I have to stop this and start watching . Bloody picture is as near perfect as I have ever seen and now I'm trying to find ways to dissect it . Go figure rolleyes.gif

Saying all of this, even with a little ghosting ( mostly background anyway) the picture is fantastic, lets see now what the Lumagen and anamorphic lens will do to correct some of this.............................later. tongue.gif
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post #122 of 128 Old 12-09-2013, 02:49 PM
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Here's quote from Joseph Clark explaining the difference between Cross-Talk and Ghosting:

"Warning: some boring technical information follows. It has been known to induce narcolepsy.

We've been down this road with reviewers before. Many of them have wised up to the myth about crosstalk, but this comment shows that Art hasn't. Besides watching tough material on DLP's and seeing no ghosting, I've done two tests that demonstrate how uninformed it is. Using a couple of pieces of commercial software, it's possible to split a retail 3D movie into its left and right streams. When you do this, you see clearly in scenes that show terrible ghosting on most displays that there is no such thing as "built in" crosstalk. The two video streams are completely free of it. Going in the other direction, I've used Sony Vegas Pro to create standard 24p Blu-ray 3D discs which consist of one stream of nothing but full black video and another stream of regular video material. If you look at only the all black stream (close one eye), the only regular display technology that I've seen that shows no crosstalk whatsoever is DLP (although I'd like to try it with OLED, since I've never seen crosstalk on an OLED display either). For all other displays (projection or flat panel) you can see crosstalk easily. As a matter of fact, it looks so bad on my test discs that you might wonder how 3D could work at all. In practice, though, you usually don't notice the ghosting. High contrast content brings it out best.

BTW, ghosting and crosstalk are roughly equal but not fully interchangeable terms. "Crosstalk" is any measurable "bleed-through" of parts of one video stream into the other, which may or may not contaminate the 3D image. "Measurable" doesn't necessarily mean visible. It can measure so low that virtually no one will see it. "Ghosting" is the crosstalk that we can see and is caused by the display or the 3D glasses. All ghosting is crosstalk, but not all crosstalk results in detectable ghosting. A ViewMaster or a HMD (head mounted display, like the Sony "goggles") with isolated images for each eye will not show any ghosting at all, but they're unique display technologies."
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post #123 of 128 Old 12-09-2013, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post


Saying all of this, even with a little ghosting ( mostly background anyway) the picture is fantastic, lets see now what the Lumagen and anamorphic lens will do to correct some of this.............................later. tongue.gif

Looking forward to hearing about the results you find when adding the Lumagen......
I'm still waiting for my 600ES to arrive and will run thru the Lumagen 2041 (just for upscaling initially, CMS will be tweaked in January when tech arrives)


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post #124 of 128 Old 12-09-2013, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by piratemonkey View Post

Looking forward to hearing about the results you find when adding the Lumagen......
I'm still waiting for my 600ES to arrive and will run thru the Lumagen 2041 (just for upscaling initially, CMS will be tweaked in January when tech arrives)

Received the Lumagen later today, was to busy taking care of my wife post op this evening plus had to install a new air exchanger. Will give it a go tomorrow night .

Just watched The Fifth Element, a remastered version, in 2D of course. Unfreaking believable ! This remastered Blu Ray version and the Sony 500ES 4K upscale makes this movie as good as anything current.
Detail is so clear in-fact , and I hate to admit this, too good. I could see such clear, fine detail that I could see flaws in makeup, could see costume flaws, I could even see the stunt doubles faces clearly enough to
know these were not the actors.

If this is just upscaled 1080p , the 4K must be even worst biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif Some things......we do not need to see , then again , there are things I could tolerate being a little more detailed tongue.gif
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post #125 of 128 Old 12-09-2013, 08:05 PM
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The fifth element is a very grainy disk, probably not the best to use for demo material. I would use Skyfall or better yet, Oblivion for testing the Sony scaling vs. the 2041 + Darbee.

btw, there is a very different appearing version of the Fifth Element out there for the die hard fans. details are here:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1265121/the-fifth-element-sony-remaster-vs-gaumont-remaster-comparison


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post #126 of 128 Old 12-09-2013, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post

Received the Lumagen later today, was to busy taking care of my wife post op this evening plus had to install a new air exchanger. Will give it a go tomorrow night .

Just watched The Fifth Element, a remastered version, in 2D of course. Unfreaking believable ! This remastered Blu Ray version and the Sony 500ES 4K upscale makes this movie as good as anything current.
Detail is so clear in-fact , and I hate to admit this, too good. I could see such clear, fine detail that I could see flaws in makeup, could see costume flaws, I could even see the stunt doubles faces clearly enough to
know these were not the actors.

If this is just upscaled 1080p , the 4K must be even worst biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif Some things......we do not need to see , then again , there are things I could tolerate being a little more detailed tongue.gif

Sounds great
Are you using the new sony BD player or server?


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post #127 of 128 Old 12-10-2013, 05:28 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

The fifth element is a very grainy disk, probably not the best to use for demo material. I would use Skyfall or better yet, Oblivion for testing the Sony scaling vs. the 2041 + Darbee.

btw, there is a very different appearing version of the Fifth Element out there for the die hard fans. details are here:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1265121/the-fifth-element-sony-remaster-vs-gaumont-remaster-comparison

Thanks Zombie, and I do believe that I have the remastered version, no, I have the remastered one for sure,it just looks too darn good not to be. Only bought this last week, a blue ray version. I certainly was not suggesting to use this for any kind of testing, not at all.
I was merely stating how blown away I was at this level of detail from an older ( remastered ) movie.

For example: In the original DVD version of this movie when the Diva in blue is singing on stage, the costume looked realistic, like a alien , tentacles and all. In this remastered version , during close ups I can see how unrealistic the suit is, I see where they tried to blend the suit to
her face, I see folds in the alien like head piece, etc. To be honest, I may have to somehow reduce the settings to give the movie less detail It certainly seems possible that we may have now reached a level where detail is too much, at least for older movies. Would hate to be a si-fi
makeup artist these days as there is no hiding flaws any more.
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post #128 of 128 Old 12-10-2013, 05:41 AM
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Originally Posted by piratemonkey View Post

Sounds great
Are you using the new sony BD player or server?

Using a Sony off the shelf 3D BD player . The version of The Fifth Element I watched last night is the new bluray remastered version, I only picked it up this week . Watching movies with this projector ( 500/600ES) is like a completely new
experience the level is that good. This is only the fifth projector I have ever owned but by far the leap in PQ is far beyond anything I have owned or have seen before. What I have to do now is stop trying to find flaws and start enjoying all that
it has to offer. Flaws are part of everything man made but in the bigger picture wink.gif mostly insignificant. Humans have always been more concerned about the fly in the ointment regardless how good the ointment is .
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